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After just 30 minutes of playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider, I am in disbelief on how bad the writing is

Oct 27, 2017
3,417
I think the part that killed me was after the Tsunami. Lots of people just died or lost of their homes and Lara is like "I gotta stop trinity" and I'm like "girl you just caused this, can you at least have some remorse before we get on with the killing spree?" o_O

I did like the flashback though.
There isn't anything really wrong with this, it's meant to underline her flaws re: thinking she's the center of the universe. She's compartmentalizing. She literally gets called out by another character in the scene you're talking about.

The beginning of the game is heavy on this sort of stuff. It's a shame the middle and final acts don't really gel together with it aside from a brief moment or two.
 

John Harker

Knows things...
Member
Oct 27, 2017
895
Santa Destroy
Funny enough, I started replaying last night too.

I really enjoy this 'rebooted franchise.'
I generally find Lara to be a strong character, the games beautiful, the combat and mechanics much more depth than Uncharted... etc etc

But OP, I am completely on the same page as your assessment about Shadow.
The story has never been this series best trait, the characters aside from Lara are cliche and don't offer much at all - but Shadow's is by far the worst of the lot.

Everyone is useless, the cut scenes go by so quickly it's hard to even track what's happening, I have no idea what why I'm doing what I'm doing, whose who, etc etc.
It's kind of sad because the game os beautiful and it's fun to play, but without being emotionally invested, it's taking me forever to complete.

Flashback to Child Lara has been the best part of the game so far, and I'm 75% through.

Overall, preferred 1 and 2
 

John Harker

Knows things...
Member
Oct 27, 2017
895
Santa Destroy
Shadow of the Tomb Raider is the only mainline Tomb Raider game I ever put down before seeing the ending. I think I made it like 30 or 40% of the way through the game. I expected the story to be disappointed since Rise was so lame in that regard, but I thought they'd finally be moving past the daddy-baggage stuff so things would HAVE to improve right?

NOPE!

Also yes, the gameplay design is horrible. I really do appreciate that there's a much bigger emphasis on puzzles compared to TR2013 and Rise, but there's so little going on in the game. Shadow is seriously "picking up garbage" the game. In 6-7 hours it really felt like I spent the vast majority of the game just picking up crafting things and opening stuff that arbitrarily gives me EXP, and it's all worthless because the TR games aren't properly designed to be compelling RPGs/immersive sims, and the upgrades don't even matter because there's practically no danger anyway since fights and enemies are so infrequent. They play up Lara as a "jungle predator" but in 7 hours I had probably less than 5 moments where I could actually stealth enemies. The "side quests" are the most trite, banal shit I've ever seen and it seriously feels like a fucking joke that Lara is even bothering with helping random townspeoples' dumbass problems. This is the advent of "modernizing" game design choices that Tomb Raider absolutely did not need.

Rise was already a kind of flat, underwhelming game, but I still managed to play through it twice, and while TR2013 has some problems and is way too linear/action focused, at least that game has a sense of fire, energy, and actual stuff happening. The pacing and direction is there for the first game, is seriously waning in Rise, and I don't even know what Shadow is supposed to be, except that the devs really liked the idea of the player constantly picking up garbage.
you're certainly right in that it feels like WAY less combat in this one.
and way more exploration. but the rewards for exploration feel disconnected since you barely get in combat situations that you would need to use the rewards.

the balance is off which affects the pacing negatively, in a way i didn't expernece in 1 and 2.

which is shame because to me, the systems work well - you're just rarely given fun opportunities to use them in Shadow
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,974
I think the part that killed me was after the Tsunami. Lots of people just died or lost of their homes and Lara is like "I gotta stop trinity" and I'm like "girl you just caused this, can you at least have some remorse before we get on with the killing spree?" o_O

I did like the flashback though.
That's the best part about the game though. It's a shame they didn't keep her selfish like that throughout the whole game (til the every end anyway) as it was very interesting and appropiate characterization.
 
Oct 31, 2017
321
Bad is a strong word, I would call it clunky.

Half of the acting seemed like it was done in a booth without any knowledge of the other actors' performance (or sometimes without knowledge of the lines they were responding to).

Tonally, it seems a bit too serious at times but by the end, I either had Stockholm Syndrome with it or it thematically made a bit more sense.
 

Deleted member 5864

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,725
The writers try to make everything VERY serious, which ends up biting them in the ass because the characterization is so bad I ended up rolling my eyes at everything. Actually, I laughed my ass off in the scene Jonah says something like "the world is not only about you" or something, while she is acting all sociopath "NO! I AM THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN STOP HIM. WE, NEED, TO, GO, NOW, JONAH!". Girl you just killed half Mexico, chill out.
I mean, this has been true since the first game. First game she comes out as a complete psycho and the enemies end up scared shitless of her like she's fucking baba yaga, second game you can add pathologically obsessive and reckless nutjob to the description, with some of the most telegraphed, groan worthy twists (you mean to tell me this lady you introduced to just tell Lara to stop doing what she's doing is actually a bad lady that wants the thing for herself? *gasps*) and even less self awareness when the game still tries to paint her as some bubbly, relatable, curious explorer and not the fucking civilization ending plague-carrying terrorist antagonist she actually is.

Can't really believe the third game being any worse tbh. The whole announcement cinematic white savior trope galore trailer they put out told me everything I needed to know about this game too.

Just to be clear, I don't mind that she's a psycho or (like people want to paint it instead) a "flawed" character. I mind that the writing doesn't go all the way with it and very often forgets about it. It's a series about a mentally unstable, obsessive girl fucking the world over and if the point was to be both fascinated and terrified by it then it would be a different outcome, but instead they want you not only to directly relate and participate, but to admire these qualities and go to some lengths to pretend they aren't actually killer character flaws.
 
Oct 27, 2017
132
Yes, I can back you up OP. I loved the first two games and I've tried to force myself to play this multiple times with no luck. After an hour or so I just quit again.
 

severianb

Banned
Member
Nov 9, 2017
655
User Banned (5 Days): Sexist objectification
I'm probably going to get ripped for this but..... Lara isn't sexy enough.

Part of the fun of the earlier Tomb Raiders was that Lara was cartoonishly hot. These past three games go out of their way make her serious and eliminate any obvious sexiness. She's been turned into a sexless killing/exploring robot with Daddy issues.

Even the movie based off these new games did this, which is one of the reasons it failed. Angelina Jolie's Lara played up the sexy angle just like the games at the time did and it was a raging success.

Back to Leisure Suit Larry #52 for me, I guess.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,287
I'm probably going to get ripped for this but..... Lara isn't sexy enough.

Part of the fun of the earlier Tomb Raiders was that Lara was cartoonishly hot. These past three games go out of their way make her serious and eliminate any obvious sexiness. She's been turned into a sexless killing/exploring robot with Daddy issues.

Even the movie based off these new games did this, which is one of the reasons it failed. Angelina Jolie's Lara played up the sexy angle just like the games at the time did and it was a raging success.

Back to Leisure Suit Larry #52 for me, I guess.
LOL

Props for the honesty.
 

ket

Member
Jul 27, 2018
1,701
I'm probably going to get ripped for this but..... Lara isn't sexy enough.

Part of the fun of the earlier Tomb Raiders was that Lara was cartoonishly hot. These past three games go out of their way make her serious and eliminate any obvious sexiness. She's been turned into a sexless killing/exploring robot with Daddy issues.

Even the movie based off these new games did this, which is one of the reasons it failed. Angelina Jolie's Lara played up the sexy angle just like the games at the time did and it was a raging success.

Back to Leisure Suit Larry #52 for me, I guess.
Reboot Lara isn't considered attractive...lol
 

Nashira

Alt Account
Member
Feb 21, 2019
207
I've played 2 hours or so of this shit, thinking that at least I could enjoy the pretty graphics, but my mind wanders and my eyes glaze over because there is literally nothing about this game that is remotely interesting. The main plot writing is absolutely horrible

It's an absolutely vapid and empty experience. I get more out of looking out the window for hours than starting this game.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,960
I suppose so, but it's a Tomb Raider game the writing really isn't all that important. I wish they'd stop having as much focus on plot. It's never a highlight of a Tomb Raider game. Pre or post Crystal Dynamics.
 
Feb 1, 2019
40
I stopped playing when you play as young Lara, ugh, I dunno, there is something about the writing, the voice actress, it didn't click for me.

Also, Lara sounds like an american faking an English accent, even though the actress is from England, the delivery sucks.
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,345
It's not that bad at the beginning. However I have no idea what was going on by the end. Out of the 3 reboot games, I like Rise the best for gameplay and tombs, and Tomb Raider 2013 for the story.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,960
It's not that bad at the beginning. However I have no idea what was going on by the end. Out of the 3 reboot games, I like Rise the best for gameplay and tombs, and Tomb Raider 2013 for the story.
Yeah by the end I legit had no idea what the fuck was going on and I didn't care. I feel like it went to complete shit once you got to Paitit.
 
Nov 2, 2017
7,848
The writing and lack of interesting characters has always been an Achilles heel for the reboot. Jonah is basically a nothing character and yet he's the most constant and significant person outside of Lara herself.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,960
The writing and lack of interesting characters has always been an Achilles heel for the reboot. Jonah is basically a nothing character and yet he's the most constant and significant person outside of Lara herself.
When Jonah was revealed to be returning for Rise I legitimately laughed. Like.....I didn't even know his fucking name he's such a nothing character.
 
Dec 18, 2017
496
I think you're being way too harsh on it. Started it last night and I think it's great. Massive improvement over the previous two games.

I stopped playing when you play as young Lara, ugh, I dunno, there is something about the writing, the voice actress, it didn't click for me.

Also, Lara sounds like an american faking an English accent, even though the actress is from England, the delivery sucks.
She was born in England but she lives in America. She's faking her accent.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,866
I literally had to force myself to finish the second game because of bad the story/writing/characters were. I still haven't convinced myself to try out the third game.
 
Feb 1, 2019
40
I think you're being way too harsh on it. Started it last night and I think it's great. Massive improvement over the previous two games.


She was born in England but she lives in America. She's faking her accent.
Oh dear, no wonder it sounds so bad.
 
Apr 18, 2018
291
Santa Cruz
The writing in every game has been so bad. The first Tomb Raider game was the exact same story as the first Resident Evil, except it was set in a jungle.

I’ve made it half way through the second game and just gave up as everything was exploding around me without a real reason and I’d jus take have to wait and wait and wait until I could move forward because things were still exploding.

The third..I just watched the quicklooks and it just didn’t seem to improve on anything.

Which is a shame. I really enjoyed the combat and how the enemies reacted. But man, that’s all it’s had going for it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
965
I enjoyed my time with it but it was a pretty forgettable campaign overall. The visuals were really one of the few things keeping me going, that plus the puzzles and climbing elements. Almost all combat encounters have faded from memory save the encounters with the jaguars. They were kinda going in the right direction with more emphasis on puzzles but it'd be great if they could try and capture the verticality of the old games. Granted some of the tombs did have verticality but a lot of them tended to blend together in terms of layout and assets. The only one that really stands out to me is the first one you encounter with the feral tribe.
 
Jan 4, 2018
530
I played it on Gamepass and I loved every second of it. I finished the story with 95% completion. I really don't understand why SotTR is so criticized. Graphics and music are excellent by the way.
 
Dec 8, 2017
1,068
The worst is how they want you to care about the relationship between Lara and Jonah but they do pretty much nothing in the previous 2 games to make you give a shit about them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
414
I honestly thought the story could improve without Rihanna Pratchett being involved, she did a poor job on TR 2013 and Rise. Crazy to see that the new writers might have done even worse (haven't played Shadow yet).

This new trilogy had a lot of potential, but they completely missed the point when they decided that, instead of a survivor, Lara should just turn into full Rambo psycho-killer machine. If it was a self-aware choice it would be really nice, unfortunately it wasn't.

Maybe they should just hire Amy Hennig to create a new trilogy, I think she can pull it off.
 
Nov 17, 2018
149
London, UK
I agree with all of my heart. The game's just doesn't carry it's weight. Incredible production quality but otherwise something's missing. Didn't have any issue with the first one, it was quite enjoyable etc but this one just drags on and on for some reason.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,493
I love the exploration and combat (shadow didn't have enough of it) but the story and characters are total mince.

In the next one they should make Lara a thief for hire who steals artifacts back for their original counties. Maybe make it so she's trying to atone for her colonialist family lineage.
 

Nashira

Alt Account
Member
Feb 21, 2019
207
What's the future of Tomb Raider now that Square Enix / Eidos will use their western studios to make Marvel GaaS titles? Since this game bombed, supposedly, I could imagine that the franchise is on the backburner.
 
Oct 25, 2017
896
The problem with the writing in these games is that it's just way too up its own ass. It came as a surprise to me how I ended up actually liking the sequence where you play as young Lara until I realized it was because she was actually allowed to have fun doing something that she enjoyed doing, as opposed to regular Lara who they kept turning more and more into this pained, flawed, tragic, duty-bound, white savior hero who hated everything about the situations she was thrust upon.

They spent an entire trilogy on her "becoming the Tomb Raider". Here's hoping if there's ever another game that she finally be allowed to be one.
 
Nov 15, 2017
1,625
I feel sorry for people who value story over gameplay. Normally when i play a game, i don't truly care for the story since i value a good gameplay over a good story. I started gaming in the NES era where games then didn't have story. I cant even tell you the story of the last two Tomb Raider games, cause i pretty much enjoyed the hell out of the gameplay.
 
Dec 18, 2017
1,681
Rise of the Tomb Raider is really good, you should play that.

Shadow was made by a completely different team after all.
 

Ste

Member
Jun 8, 2018
409
England
The story and graphics were amazing, I am one of the people who think all the tomb raider games in recent times were excellent.

I was however surprised at the uncharted games, I read everyone on here and the old place's opinions on that series so had extremely high expectations but found them to be not as good as the tomb raider games storytelling wise.

Opinions are neither right or wrong but different.

I seem to be happy with the storytelling and hope my double dipping with the 3 game on both xbox and steam will help with their future decisions to make more.