After NPD, Media Create numbers will no longer be public ... where is the gaming press ?

Oct 25, 2017
6,004
#51
What's the gain in calling out publishers if they silence trackers?
They are the ones making the games and they decide if they want to share the data or not with the public.

Not having sales thread and disucssions here will certainly lower console warriors post on ERA.
Lmao yeah, more speculation and less information will certainly lower console warriors posts, for sure
 
Dec 21, 2017
5,470
#53
We had EA talking about BFV underperforming, SE said the same thing with Just Cause 4, Activision as well, with a decrese in revenue due to Bungie leaving the publisher.

Here we are talking about the gaming industry and you will never see EA, Activision and such lying in front of the people giving them money to make games.
Let's talk about Microsoft: they twisted the great hardware failure of Xbox One, hiding its performances, making it look like for them it's all about service numbers and not hardware sales. (when they had clear goals for that console 6 years ago)

People believe this, until they see how little the console is selling even in the west every month.

Not to mention some of these companies are private, like Bethesda has no reason to tell you how much Fallout 76 has sold, the only way you can gather informations from these companies is through trackers like NPD.
 
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Jan 28, 2018
3,377
#54
Lmao yeah, more speculation and less information will certainly lower console warriors posts, for sure
lmao yes

Let's talk about Microsoft: they twisted the great hardware failure of Xbox One,, hiding its performances, making it look like for them it's all about service users and not about hardware sales.
You are bringing one example, one example is not the common rule and Microsoft hiding Xbox One sales, a tiny % of their annual revenue, is not remotely comparable to a gaming publisher hiding sales to their shareholders.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,789
Speed Force
#56
We are entitled to know, imo, why this 25 years old policy changed, and most importantly if it was because of the pressure put by other stakeholders (like publishers).

Like I said, if it is MC own doing, no problem. However, if there are stakeholders strongarming them, then we should call them out.
You haven't really made a compelling reason why we're entitled to know why the policy changed. It's not like you paid anything. You were just getting something for free and now you're not.

You want to know what the policy was changed, but I don't think you're owed an answer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
#57
The gaming press don't care about sales data like that. Hell, they don't even report media create numbers and uk numbers in the majority of the cases or numbers from financial results. It's why here is so much more interesting.
I think technically speaking you need authorization by Media Create and co to publish their numbers on your website, which is why you mostly only see smaller websites (who don't give much of a fuck) reporting them.
 
OP
OP
Lelouch0612
Oct 25, 2017
7,007
#58
You're delving into much deeper issues when it comes to the industry. They're not going to bite the hand that feeds them.
Yes I am but this reasoning can no longer work given the stakes at hand today.

How difficult is it to boycott THQ Nordic products for a media outlet ? For gaming outlets, what is the line between what's morally okay or what it not ?
 
Mar 20, 2018
2,532
Switzerland
#60
If anybody should cover this, should it not be Japanese Gaming Media ?
Since mediacreate is a japanese company reporting japanese data ?

And no, as a MC thread regular, its not „Our data“ or anything resembling that.
Its MCs data, and they can do whatever they want with it.

There is no indication publishers are making them do this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,135
#61
Have you seen what became of NPD threads? They got worse and worse when less information was provided that it turned into hellzones of fanboyism, antagonizing leakers for information, and just being an all around hellhole compared to most other sales threads.
 
OP
OP
Lelouch0612
Oct 25, 2017
7,007
#63
As a matter of fact no. If you're not a customer of a company (and you aren't Media Create's customer), you're not entitled to know why they decided to change their policies.
If it is done by a publisher, yes I think that it is the role of the press to let us know.

The role of the press is to disclose infomation and share it.

I believe that MC is just another example in a bigger trend (Secrecy of the industry). If you don't think it is not worth digging to understand why, it is your opinion.
 
Jan 28, 2018
3,377
#65
Have you seen what became of NPD threads? They got worse and worse when less information was provided that it turned into hellzones of fanboyism, antagonizing leakers for information, and just being an all around hellhole compared to most other sales threads.
You are delusional if you think that. Now everybody will have a narrative and no one will have proof of the contrary.
That's why sales threads are the worst topics on this forum, because people, from every faction will gather and throw their own armchair statistics to try and defend their favourite games or corporation, even when the sales are high or low, regardless of the performance.
I find laughable to see people spending more time arguing about sales instead of discussion in proper topic, like they are getting something if they stand to defend their favourite corporation or game.

In a perfect world, no company should talk about sales until the usual quarter earnings or yearly earning reports, because love to speculate and talk shit with few numbers.
 
OP
OP
Lelouch0612
Oct 25, 2017
7,007
#66
If anybody should cover this, should it not be Japanese Gaming Media ?
Since mediacreate is a japanese company reporting japanese data ?

And no, as a MC thread regular, its not „Our data“ or anything resembling that.
Its MCs data, and they can do whatever they want with it.

There is no indication publishers are making them do this.
I think it is a worldwide trend. I mentionned NPD, MC and Hobby Consolas in Spain.

Our industry is getting more and more secretive, why ? who's behind it ? I think is a real subject real.
 
Dec 21, 2017
5,470
#67
You are bringing one example, one example is not the common rule and Microsoft hiding Xbox One sales, a tiny % of their annual revenue, is not remotely comparable to a gaming publisher hiding sales to their shareholders.
I also mentioned below example of a private company, those have no interest to share their sales numbers publicly and the only way you can guess how much their games sell is through NPD.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,909
Italy
#69
Yes, and they apparently have decided that 1% should make them money.
It doesn't explicitly say that they're not making those data public because they're losing money on it or because they have an opportunity cost. Trust me, I worked for a firm getting data from a tracking firm and the Top 20 is peanuts compared to what companies pay for. Most likely, there were pressure from publishers, like it happened for NPD. Also, as a consumer, I want more transparency, not less.
 
OP
OP
Lelouch0612
Oct 25, 2017
7,007
#72
That's why sales threads are the worst topics on this forum, because people, from every faction will gather and throw their own armchair statistics to try and defend their favourite games or corporation, even when the sales are high or low, regardless of the performance.
I find laughable to see people spending more time arguing about sales instead of discussion in proper topic, like they are getting something if they stand to defend their favourite corporation or game.

In a perfect world, no company should talk about sales until the usual quarter earnings or yearly earning reports, because love to speculate and talk shit with few numbers.
The more info you have, the more grounded is the discussion.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,004
#73
That's why sales threads are the worst topics on this forum, because people, from every faction will gather and throw their own armchair statistics to try and defend their favourite games or corporation, even when the sales are high or low, regardless of the performance.
I find laughable to see people spending more time arguing about sales instead of discussion in proper topic, like they are getting something if they stand to defend their favourite corporation or game.

In a perfect world, no company should talk about sales until the usual quarter earnings or yearly earning reports, because love to speculate and talk shit with few numbers.
Ah so the argument here is "fuck sales discussions because I don't like them therefore the lack of transparency will makes this world a better place for all of us because there will be nothing to discuss?"

????
 

Phonomezer

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,078
#74
Let's talk about Microsoft: they twisted the great hardware failure of Xbox One, hiding its performances, making it look like for them it's all about service numbers and not hardware sales. (when they had clear goals for that console 6 years ago)

People believe this, until they see how little the console is selling even in the west every month.
Wow maybe they should release numbers so I don't have to suffer moronic posts in the future.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
#76
It doesn't explicitly say that they're not making those data public because they're losing money on it or because they have an opportunity cost. Trust me, I worked for a firm getting data from a tracking firm and the Top 20 is peanuts compared to what companies pay for. Most likely, there were pressure from publishers, like it happened for NPD. Also, as a consumer, I want more transparency, not less.
People say "pressure", but the NPD simply had data agreements with the publishers that allowed them to publicly share the information, which later got changed. "Pressure" strikes me as a somewhat weird wording for what essentially seems to boil down to a change in contracts.
 
Oct 25, 2017
685
#78
That's why sales threads are the worst topics on this forum, because people, from every faction will gather and throw their own armchair statistics to try and defend their favourite games or corporation, even when the sales are high or low, regardless of the performance.
I find laughable to see people spending more time arguing about sales instead of discussion in proper topic, like they are getting something if they stand to defend their favourite corporation or game.

In a perfect world, no company should talk about sales until the usual quarter earnings or yearly earning reports, because love to speculate and talk shit with few numbers.
I kinda agree that sales threads are the worst, but they are not gonna dissapear because we dont have concrete numbers, instead there will be more and they will become worse.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,135
#79
That's why sales threads are the worst topics on this forum, because people, from every faction will gather and throw their own armchair statistics to try and defend their favourite games or corporation, even when the sales are high or low, regardless of the performance.
I find laughable to see people spending more time arguing about sales instead of discussion in proper topic, like they are getting something if they stand to defend their favourite corporation or game.

In a perfect world, no company should talk about sales until the usual quarter earnings or yearly earning reports, because love to speculate and talk shit with few numbers.
Then stop making Capcom sales threads if you feel this way.

Heck, MC threads are well moderated at least. If you're coming in there with feelings and distorting data, or trying to disrupt things, you can get a warning or a ban. Everyone has actual data to look back to, to have a decent discussion and refute bad data and inaccuracies from most fanboyism.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,126
The Netherlands
#80
That's why sales threads are the worst topics on this forum, because people, from every faction will gather and throw their own armchair statistics to try and defend their favourite games or corporation, even when the sales are high or low, regardless of the performance.
I find laughable to see people spending more time arguing about sales instead of discussion in proper topic, like they are getting something if they stand to defend their favourite corporation or game.

In a perfect world, no company should talk about sales until the usual quarter earnings or yearly earning reports, because love to speculate and talk shit with few numbers.
You can have disdain for sales discussion, that's your call, but none of what you're saying is a good reason not to discuss them. It can provide people with a sense of the direction in which genres and companies are going with their successor failure, and can facilitate an outlook on how a system is doing and how different software are performing on it. Those benefits obviously go away if no public information is available anymore. Fanboys can poison any discussion ever, so they are not a reason to do away with it, lest we abolish all discussion on any topic. You can argue that none of that is necessary per se, but it is a damn shame if it were to disappear due to pressure on trackers to conform to publishers' wishes (hence why OP wants journalists to investigate things like this and figure out if publishers are responsible for bringin about such changes).
 
Jan 28, 2018
3,377
#81
Ah so it's a "fuck sales discussions because I don't like them therefore the lack of transparency will makes this world a better place for all of us?"

????
You are not a shareholder
You are not the target of sales numbers or revenue
You are not entitled to know how much X games sold

Publishers need to be transparent to shareholders not forum users, they gain nothing in showing you data.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,004
#84
You are not a shareholder
You are not the target of sales numbers or revenue
You are not entitled to know how much X games sold

Publishers need to be transparent to shareholders not forum users, they gain nothing in showing you data.
For the second time, the fuck are you talking about? Why are you telling me this? When did I mention any kind of obligation for them to show me anything????
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,281
#85
I don't care if gaming press covers this bc in general I don't think this shit matters to the public, or more specifically forumers.
 
Jan 28, 2018
3,377
#86
Heck, MC threads are well moderated at least. If you're coming in there with feelings and distorting data, or trying to disrupt things, you can get a warning or a ban. Everyone has actual data to look back to, to have a decent discussion and refute bad data and inaccuracies from most fanboyism.
MC threads are moderated because the vast majority of this forum doesn't care about Japanese sales and people posting comments here are not the same in other threads, when you look at NPD or PAL threads the situation is way worse.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,909
Italy
#88
People say "pressure", but the NPD simply had data agreements with the publishers that allowed them to publicly share the information, which later got changed. "Pressure" strikes me as a somewhat weird wording for what essentially seems to boil down to a change in contracts.
No one is disputing the fact that data became fully private because of change in contracts.

Contractual conditions often change because of pressure from companies. More specifically, NPD policy changed because of stricter conditions on releasing data. When the press and consumers start to dive into data, publishers lose control of mindshare. Back then, sales data were a niche thing few cared about. When people and the press started to talk about data, publishers were scared of comparisons and flops.
 
OP
OP
Lelouch0612
Oct 25, 2017
7,007
#89
MC threads are moderated because the vast majority of this forum doesn't care about Japanese sales, when you look at NPD or PAL threads the situation is way worse.
Also because you have almost 0 tangible info on these threads.

More data --> less bullshit.
 
Mar 20, 2018
2,532
Switzerland
#90
I think it is a worldwide trend. I mentionned NPD, MC and Hobby Consolas in Spain.

Our industry is getting more and more secretive, why ? who's behind it ? I think is a real subject real.
Information is valuable, so companies with said information would want some money for that value.
Its not some kind of deep conspirancy by Publishers that dont want you to know their game failed so the force trackers not to release data.

And again, its not „Our industry“.
You are not entitled to anything at all.
Every part of the industry can decide for itself how much information they want to disclose, and there is nothing wrong with that.

People talking about „transparency“ in game sales info are like the people talking about „consumer rights“ when it comes to game pricing.
It has nothing to do with the thing you mention.

Transparency is required from governments, or from companies that have info that actually affects people.(aka VS with the Diesel stuff, or BP with the oil spills).
Nobody complaining here needs Game sales for anything, the only people who do need that kind of information are devs/publishers making games, and they can pay to get said info.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,126
The Netherlands
#91
MC threads are moderated because the vast majority of this forum doesn't care about Japanese sales and people posting comments here are not the same in other threads, when you look at NPD or PAL threads the situation is way worse.
PAL Charts gather a fraction of the traffic Media Create threads do. NPD threads gather more per thread, but those threads are once every month, not every week.
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,918
#92
Only forum users care about sales data, press and mainstream audience don't care.
This is utter tripe. Sales data is big news. Every time a big game does really well, or quite poorly, it ends up making the news or doing the rounds all over the web and press outlets.

My guess is some higher ups are pushing against the publication of such sales data due to so many recent flops, the knowledge and coverage of which could impact investor confidence, shares, the ability for publishers to PR twist things etc, eg with games like Fallout 76, Anthem, Crackdown 3, Battlefield etc.
 
#93
Only forum users care about sales data, press and mainstream audience don't care.

This right here.

The gaming press doesn’t cover it because there isn’t an audience for the story.


Also, dial down the the entitlement a bit. You don’t have any sort of human right to sales data just because you buy video games. You are not part of the industry, you are a customer.
 
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Jan 28, 2018
3,377
#94
This is utter tripe. Sales data is big news. Every time a big game does really well, or quite poorly, it ends up making the news or doing the rounds all over the web and press outlets.

My guess is some higher ups are pushing against the publication of such sales data due to so many recent flops, the knowledge and coverage of which could impact investor confidence, shares, the ability for publishers to PR twist things etc, eg with games like Fallout 76, Anthem, Crackdown 3, Battlefield etc.
Don't think MS or EA or Bethesda will ever push MC to stop providing data, that's coming from a Japanese publisher.
And EA was more than honest with both BF5 and B2 underperforming, Bethesda is a private company and MS is irrelevant.
 
OP
OP
Lelouch0612
Oct 25, 2017
7,007
#95
Information is valuable, so companies with said information would want some money for that value.
Its not some kind of deep conspirancy by Publishers that dont want you to know their game failed so the force trackers not to release data.

And again, its not „Our industry“.
You are not entitled to anything at all.
Every part of the industry can decide for itself how much information they want to disclose, and there is nothing wrong with that.

People talking about „transparency“ in game sales info are like the people talking about „consumer rights“ when it comes to game pricing.
It has nothing to do with the thing you mention.

Transparency is required from governments, or from companies that have info that actually affects people.(aka VS with the Diesel stuff, or BP with the oil spills).
Nobody complaining here needs Game sales for anything, the only people who do need that kind of information are devs/publishers making games, and they can pay to get said info.
Like I said, if it is Media Create own doing, no problem amigo it is your call.

Maybe after 25 years, they changed their mind and believe that keeping data private is good for them. However, if there were pressure by stakeholders to silence them...

It it worth looking into it, don't you think ?
 
OP
OP
Lelouch0612
Oct 25, 2017
7,007
#96
This right here.

The gaming press doesn’t cover it because there isn’t an audience for the story.
I disagree right here.

If a publisher is silencing a tracker because they don't want to have the sales of their games public, then I think a lot of people would be interested in this story.

It is worth looking into it imo.
 
Nov 1, 2017
486
#97
It's good to know the numbers, but not to know its perfect reasonable.
To sell the numbers its the business of this entities, if they are public the value decreases.

The gammers only need to know if the game its good or not, and for that they have reviews. The share holders have the sale numbers from periodical reports.
 
Dec 21, 2017
5,470
#98
Wow maybe they should release numbers so I don't have to suffer moronic posts in the future.
Nothing personal, i'm just very against this idea of hiding informations to paint a better picture mid-gen. I'm a big fan of transparency, so i hope next gen Microsoft decides from the start what is important service numbers or hardware sales and commit to it.

As we saw with certain tweets it still seems like Microsoft would still like to share these numbers if they were any good.