After NPD, Media Create numbers will no longer be public ... where is the gaming press ?

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,889
This type of information is only useful IF it's analyzed by capable people that actually have proper knowledge behind how this industry works.
This honestly sounds like some, we must hide the information from the peoppe for the good of the people none sesne. Yes data is most useful in the hands of people with the capability and knowledge to properly analyze it. Those people all have it because its their jobs that they actually get paid to do and then they in turn sell that info so no wonder they have top billings in it.

Like this isn't a reason basic information itself should be hidden.

Sharing a bunch of vage numbers to enthusiastic folks that will check it on their free time, it's not just unuseful, but usually hurtful.
No one ever asked about the level of use. People asked why there is no investigation into why they are pulling more and more information back. I personally do not think the things discussed on forums matter much. I also dont think a top 20 and hardware sales is what is causing huge damage to industry players.

People need to understand that information is power in many ways, not just a toy that you can mess around.

We should value data, and that's basically what they're doing.
Again, this sounds like some secret society type shit. Many other forms of entertainment provide this contextual data and those industries are not in crisis downfall. To say knowledge and information is power then advocate hiding it from people is literally backwards.

And this not me saying that we deserve information or it should be public domain because we want it (or I want it or w/e). This is me saying

1) The reasoning you are providing is poor on a fundamental level
2) Journalists should be exploring this and providing us with good researched reasoned information on topics like this. It shouldnt be left to our own speculation.
 

machinaea

Game Producer
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
169
I am interested in sales data because it gives you an idea of how the industry is evolving. Is the game that I love going to have a sequel soon or not ? Why is this genre overlooked this gen ? The gaming industry is changing ver fast so it is a really interesting topic.
For that purpose, sales data is increasingly outdated and doesn't really reflect the reality in a manner applicable for understanding the development of the industry, the outcomes of projects and overall business for publishers (see most post above). For indie games, it might still be somewhat more relevant, but there you face the issues that budgets easily range between $0.00 - $5 million and expectations are so very different from team to team that decompiling the data into something valuable is a lot harder (though overall sales and maybe things like distribution of revenue is still valid data, but at the same time that is data that you can get through various market research groups).
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,569
Sometimes sharing sales data can have benefits - think of Marvel and ticket sales. They want people to know how big their last movie did because that business model is based on trends. Think of how many ad campaigns focus on "the best selling/record selling" - novels live or die on publishing (often manufactored) sales data.

But the videogame world is shifting towards a subscription/microtransaction business model, where games that enjoy lower sales may end up being much bigger moneymakers than tentpole franchises. Sales data stopped being the most useful piece of information, and it also became harder and harder to "weaponize" as a promotion tool for your product (when your game sells 5 million copies and it's still considered a financial flop, publishing sales data stops being useful - look at Tomb Raider).

We often mock MS for moving from sales to MAUs, but the industry as a whole will soon move in that direction because the games that make bank are those who don't sell at retail for 60$. And nobody wants to tell that to audiences.
The problem is we don't get that data subscription data either. The end result is simply more secrecy. Publishers by and large seem to be pushing towards non industry personnel having minimal relevant data aside from quarterly results that they also increasing obfuscate.
 
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Lelouch0612

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,489
The fact that you had to go to these absurdly niche sites is proof enough. ;)
Okay so :
There has always been an interest for the numbers.
 

Dachhase

Coward
Oct 26, 2017
6,165
Sales numbers, release dates, practices.. the industry just hate sharing information in general.
yeah no idea why video games are this secretive. the movie industry just tells you years in advance which movies they are going to make and many times the scripts are available to lots of people. they also share numbers down to every single day and no one cares.

no idea why we can't know what game each studio is working on. everything needs to be a big surprise.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
The problem is we don't get that data subscription data either. The end result is simply more secrecy. Publishers by and large seem to be pushing towards non industry personnel having minimal relevant data aside from quarterly results that they also increasing obfuscate.

I think the big takeaway is that they don't want to share those data. There's no benefit in them doing so.

Think for a second: would knowing that a certain iOS game you can download for free is a bigger moneymaker than Halo incentivize you to download the game, or would it make you feel like it's a microtransaction nightmare?
I remember when the developers of Marvel Puzzle Quest released data about their game a couple years ago, showing that 80% of the income came from like 10% of the fanbase and there were people who spent 6-7.000$ on the game. A LOT of users dropped the game that day.

In business, you don't always want to be transparent.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,969
Remember that it is in the interest of the press to retain closed/exclusive access to data and act as gatekeepers for this information. They have no reason to be on our side with this; we're not their constituents, but their content farm.
 
OP
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Lelouch0612

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,489
For that purpose, sales data is increasingly outdated and doesn't really reflect the reality in a manner applicable for understanding the development of the industry, the outcomes of projects and overall business for publishers (see most post above). For indie games, it might still be somewhat more relevant, but there you face the issues that budgets easily range between $0.00 - $5 million and expectations are so very different from team to team that decompiling the data into something valuable is a lot harder (though overall sales and maybe things like distribution of revenue is still valid data, but at the same time that is data that you can get through various market research groups).
You are right but it is more a Western thing.

Regarding Japan, retail data is still very representative of a game's performance.

Furtermore, comparing historical performance still let us frame its sales.

Even if we take EA's example, they shared their expectations about Antham with sales as metric, no MAU nor revenue talk just sales, so it is still the most relevant metric for retail games.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,889
I would say a large reason to the matter is that simply isn't black-and-white or simple enough to have a definite answer and there's very little value for anyone to actually explain why they do that, because as with much communication developers/publishers engage in, it's only gonna draw more backlash, conspiracy theories and just more work for them for no seemingly added value.

But as to the multitude of reasons, here are some that I can at least attest to some people in the industry skewing towards:
  • sales data alone these days isn't accurate enough, and especially should not be used for investment purposes and to assess the overarching business outcomes as games have extremely varied sales tails and well performing MTX can easily make a project far more successful even if it carried less initial sales than it's predecessor
  • with GaaS other metrics can be more business critical and part of the strategy (why engagement is being used so often) because publishers overall performance can be their catalogues performance and there can be an expectation of singular releases underperforming but overall strategy working when some other game performs well and gets good engagement and recurring performance
  • many of these other metrics are valuable to the companies (bringing a potential edge in keeping leadership of their market segment or making better products in the future) and there's good reason to keep them in-house (being a pro-active answer to "well, if upfront sales data is producing a skewed perspective, why not release the whole stack of performance related data?")
  • when there are plenty of paid outlets doing better by getting revenue out of these reports (remember us players bring very little if none in revenue to many of these outles) why would you stay open?
  • the industry feels much less secretive from the inside and there's fair bit of knowledge to be gained easily, thus a lot of the people already have access to the necessary information from an investment perspective
  • much of the actual business and investment critical data is already being provided in investor calls, quarterly reports and whatnot, and it differs little from many other software industry counterparts (in fact you could argue there's far more public data available for games data than in many application/software industries)
  • many of the non-investment/development professional easily misunderstand the data, so you could be opening yourself into a ton of unnecessary communication work

...and the list would go on quite easily. But the point is that there is no simple answer that would be already rule it out, but at the same time you can find a ton of somewhat reasonable reasons (keep in mind I don't personally agree with them all) why many metrics aren't as easily accessible and you can't find all that many in support of making said metrics more visible, at least without it being a business in itself (the likes of NPD, AppAnnie etc.)
Thank you for the detailed answer. These are good reasons as to why in gaming specifically there are many reasons why publishers wish to keep info hidden.

I just want to clarify I am not asking why the games industry is so secretive as in publishers and developers. I understand that having the full picture and all the necessary internal metrics are all they really need to care about. Not sharing it to the general public. Entertainment is much more open with nunbers than most other types of industries. Within the one I work for I have access to sizeable sales numbers and even then I would not ever release this info to the public (even if it wouldnt get my ass totally fired to begin with) because why would that be of intrinsic benefit to us as an organization?

My main point was why as external bodies we would want access to less information than we were already getting. And to further expand, since the opening is asking about reporting, why journalists are not trying to share this information with the general audience. I understand from an intenral industry perspective why you would not want to waste your time, I dont understand from a press stand point wht this is something to not be addressed.

If movie publishers stopped allowing the sharing of ticket sales and movie revenue I feel there is no way press would not address it.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,569
I think the big takeaway is that they don't want to share those data. There's no benefit in them doing so.

Think for a second: would knowing that a certain iOS game you can download for free is a bigger moneymaker than Halo incentivize you to download the game, or would it make you feel like it's a microtransaction nightmare?
I remember when the developers of Marvel Puzzle Quest released data about their game a couple years ago, showing that 80% of the income came from like 10% of the fanbase and there were people who spent 6-7.000$ on the game. A LOT of users dropped the game that day.

In business, you don't always want to be transparent.
I mean that's the point. It's a sign of immaturity of the industry that they feel that hiding their performance somehow improves their positioning. The movie industry has been outgrossed by video games by years now and they barely hide shit. Gaming is the biggest entertainment industry. In terms economic impact it is substantial. But rather than release data to encourage further investment in the industry they'd rather hide it away under lock and key as if that improves their poorly performing games prospects.
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,019
I don’t get it. Why should you get those numbers? It’s a service that now is paid instead of free.
 

famikon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
ベラルーシ
For that purpose, sales data is increasingly outdated and doesn't really reflect the reality in a manner applicable for understanding the development of the industry, the outcomes of projects and overall business for publishers (see most post above).
Indeed. Without knowing budget, expectation, revenue streams – data with just sales in units could be very misleading.
 

Blackbird

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,207
Brazil
This honestly sounds like some, we must hide the information from the peoppe for the good of the people none sesne. Yes data is most useful in the hands of people with the capability and knowledge to properly analyze it. Those people all have it because its their jobs that they actually get paid to do and then they in turn sell that info so no wonder they have top billings in it.

Like this isn't a reason basic information itself should be hidden.



No one ever asked about the level of use. People asked why there is no investigation into why they are pulling more and more information back. I personally do not think the things discussed on forums matter much. I also dont think a top 20 and hardware sales is what is causing huge damage to industry players.



Again, this sounds like some secret society type shit. Many other forms of entertainment provide this contextual data and those industries are not in crisis downfall. To say knowledge and information is power then advocate hiding it from people is literally backwards.

And this not me saying that we deserve information or it should be public domain because we want it (or I want it or w/e). This is me saying

1) The reasoning you are providing is poor on a fundamental level
2) Journalists should be exploring this and providing us with good researched reasoned information on topics like this. It shouldnt be left to our own speculation.

That's something completely debatable; It's not just because a very specific type of information (that has a very specific value) should be out there, that it will be put into good use.

The type of relevance of this data ranges from "extremely valuable" to just "personal curiosity". Keep in mind that this is not reflective of my general views on how information should be spread, as you should have expected, we're talking only about gaming industry sales. So in that sense, i don't think it serves a purpose being misinterpreted either.

Now, i don't think we need a full investigative job to understand what's happening as well. This is not really something being taken away from a group of people, but rather prorities being redirected to where it's better suited and used.

Like i said above communcation is key for this specific line of work, in the sense that a place like this is a platform for disasters and loads of misinformation.

Indeed. Without knowing budget, expectation, revenue streams – data with just sales in units could be very misleading.

The guy above me said it in such a simpler and effective way.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,315
Hell Capcom just increased the prices of RE Switch titles without any kind of justification and only a single outlet with EG called them out on it and asked for a statement - so unless a issue it directly effects the gaming press or the current big AAA title they are into they arent calling out shit.
"Company puts higher price tag on new release of older games" isn't really a scathing indictment to run to the presses with. :p

Off-topic anyhow, so I'll just go!
 
OP
OP
Lelouch0612

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,489
I don’t get it. Why should you get those numbers? It’s a service that now is paid instead of free.
I am quoting ggx2ac on this but "When a company is no longer giving data for free, it's usually because of the stakeholders putting pressure on the company, e.g. publishers, clients, etc. " Given the size of the firm (11 people), it is even more plausible.

So it is worth finding out if stakeholders are indeed pressuring Media Create, and who is behind it.
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,456
While I agree that this MC move is worthy of reporting and *potentially* an issue, I don't see any reason to believe so adamantly that they are being "silenced by publishers" like you are stating, OP.
 
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Lelouch0612

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,489
While I agree that this MC move is worthy of reporting and *potentially* an issue, I don't see any reason to believe so adamantly that they are being "silenced by publishers" like you are stating, OP.
I mentionned the possibility. Given the practice of publishers in this industry (blacklisting ...), and the small size of the firm (11 people), there is a reasonable doubt surrounding all of this.

That's why I would like some coverage/investigation from the gaming press to find out.
 

SG-17

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,225
I am quoting ggx2ac on this but "When a company is no longer giving data for free, it's usually because of the stakeholders putting pressure on the company, e.g. publishers, clients, etc. " Given the size of the firm (11 people), it is even more plausible.

So it is worth finding out if stakeholders are indeed pressuring Media Create, and who is behind it.
No it's not. It doesn't matter. Almost no industry gives full sales numbers.
 

Rion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,846
Generally, it feels like gaming press like to talk/speculate about how a game supposedly sold, but don't care about having the actual numbers
I don't think many people actually care about specific numbers outside of a few hundred at most forum sales-age enthusiasts. It's indeed sad that it's all become so secret in the past few years :'(

Not that the general public care about sales at all, but if they did, they would only care about what was at number 1 or at most a top 10 and NPD already provides that info so I can't see it changing anytime soon.

If I win the lottery I'll buy all the info and leak it here :P
 
OP
OP
Lelouch0612

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,489
You are apparently not willing to discuss but let's see.

Do you believe that the videogame industry is secretive by "chance" or because its stakeholders prefer it that way ?

Do you think publishers history of strongarming other stakeholders of this industry (like blacklisting review outlet for example) make such a thing impossible ?

For me there is reasonable doubt, and given that its a WW trend, it is worth looking into it.
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,456
lol at all the people saying that gaming sites don't report sales numbers
it's okay to admit you don't visit sites outside of ERA
even small local blogs have been reporting MC/Famitsu numbers since forever
I mentionned the possibility. Given the practice of publishers in this industry (blacklisting ...), and the small size of the firm (11 people), there is a reasonable doubt surrounding all of this.

That's why I would like some coverage/investigation from the gaming press to find out.
And what would take to convince you that they were not "silenced"? Eurogamer or Kotaku publishing an article with a statement from a MC employee saying "We made this move to boost our analysis business"?
You could say they are lying because of pressure anyway.

What sort of evidence the western press could find that conclusively ends your doubts?

As long you are going "someone SURELY is behind this", no amount of reporting can convince you of the contrary. Plus:
I think it is a worldwide trend. I mentionned NPD, MC and Hobby Consolas in Spain.

Our industry is getting more and more secretive, why ? who's behind it ? I think is a real subject real.
You are sounding straight up like a tinfoil hat fear monger.
 

hemo memo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,480
Alrest
yeah no idea why video games are this secretive. the movie industry just tells you years in advance which movies they are going to make and many times the scripts are available to lots of people. they also share numbers down to every single day and no one cares.

no idea why we can't know what game each studio is working on. everything needs to be a big surprise.
Just look at the MCU. I love the fact that I have exact release dates of movies years in advance. Not the “2019” or “guess the release date” game we play with every game reveal.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,889
That's something completely debatable; It's not just because a very specific type of information (that has a very specific value) should be out there, that it will be put into good use.
This applies to almost all information in general. You can't make a call that information can be abused so it should not be out there. It is a wholly dishonest framing and even if yoy are not explicitly saying that, that is the path your argument leads to.

Now, i don't think we need a full investigative job to understand what's happening as well. This is not really something being taken away from a group of people, but rather prorities being redirected to where it's better suited and used.
How is something not being taken away? The general public use to see unit sales of new releases on hardware and software and now it does not. That is very clearly a loss of general information. The fact that the data is less relevant to publisher success factors due to industry shift does not mean it no longer holds relevance otherwise it wouldnt be a tracked metric at all.

Like i said above communcation is key for this specific line of work, in the sense that a place like this is a platform for disasters and loads of misinformation.
Communication is keybin any public facing industry. I unsure what the point of this statement is.

The guy above me said it in such a simpler and effective way.
If all you wanted to use the data for was saying selling less means bomb sure. Otherwise, no public information is the full story on private industry, that doesnt mean it isnt useful, relevant or even on purely selfish level desireable.
 
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Lelouch0612

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,489
No it's not. It doesn't matter. Almost no industry gives full sales numbers.
Like I said the movie industry is way more transparent.

I don't deny that there is a strong inertia, so things don't really move. Except in the VG industry in which you are getting less and less data. Does it happen in other industries ?
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,825
"Company puts marginally higher price tag on new release of older games" isn't really a scathing indictment to run to the presses with.
A news article and asking the PR for a statement isnt too much to ask - its just one recent example of many where the press just refuses to ask unpopular questions or putting pressure on pubs.

They should bring up the stuff that affects the specific audience, because many people were wondering if and how Capcom is justifying the higher prices.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,969
Can you elaborate your point ? I am not sure to have fully understand it sorry.
Let's say you're an enthusiast magazine with the resources to subscribe to a paywalled database or tracker. Why would you lobby for people on message boards to have open, unfettered access to that data when you're in a position where they have to come to you for partial sales reporting?

The press is perfectly aware that many of us on forums like this one are here precisely because we can go around them completely. We get information faster and usually better (it's not like quantitative analysis has ever been their strength). "Era -> Internet -> Era" exists for a reason, and I'm certainly not the only one here who doesn't even look at the hobby mags anymore, because they add nothing.

What I'm saying is that the press doesn't like this arrangement and has no incentive to defend it. As much as a few self-promoting writers would like us to believe otherwise—dropping by here from time to time, getting chummy, and making us feel like we have direct contact with insiders—they are not our friends. At best, a few of them will pay for a subscription and feed us a trickle of partial reporting that we can't check for ourselves. A subscription that a media organization can afford, but individual hobbyists can't or won't, is good for the press. It's opaque and inconvenient for interested observers in the public, but they don't care.
 

GTVision

Member
Oct 28, 2017
243
I am quoting ggx2ac on this but "When a company is no longer giving data for free, it's usually because of the stakeholders putting pressure on the company, e.g. publishers, clients, etc. " Given the size of the firm (11 people), it is even more plausible.

So it is worth finding out if stakeholders are indeed pressuring Media Create, and who is behind it.
But why? It's just the way it is, accept it. We (read: gamers) have no say in this, it's not our data. The only thing we do is misinterpret the data and use it to "prove" how bad certain titles are doing even though we don't know the whole pictures because the lack of digital sales data.

I too would love to see more sales data instead of less. But the fact remains that sales data of physical games is becoming less and less important. And using it to get a picture of how a title or the industry as a whole is performing is getting harder and harder.
 

Callibretto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,313
Indonesia
Yea they do.

Reports put out by companies is different to market data.

Market data is sold (for a fair bit) in other industries.
honest question, why is movie industry have a public and widely available box office report and even each movie production budget. it's pretty neat that in movie industry you can have pretty accurate tracking analysis weeks before the movie is out.

would be cool for discussion if games can be like that too.
 

famikon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
ベラルーシ
Do you believe that the videogame industry is secretive by "chance" or because its stakeholders prefer it that way ?
"Secretive"?

How many books Penguin Random House sold last year?
What AppleTV and nVidia Shield LTDs?
What about movie sales on Blu-Rays/DVDs per publisher in units?

See, videogame industry is actually much more open than any other industry.
 

WarRock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,456
honest question, why is movie industry have a public and widely available box office report and even each movie production budget. it's pretty neat that in movie industry you can have pretty accurate tracking analysis weeks before the movie is out.

would be cool for discussion if games can be like that too.
See:
Sometimes sharing sales data can have benefits - think of Marvel and ticket sales. They want people to know how big their last movie did because that business model is based on trends. Think of how many ad campaigns focus on "the best selling/record selling" - novels live or die on publishing (often manufactored) sales data.

But the videogame world is shifting towards a subscription/microtransaction business model, where games that enjoy lower sales may end up being much bigger moneymakers than tentpole franchises. Sales data stopped being the most useful piece of information, and it also became harder and harder to "weaponize" as a promotion tool for your product (when your game sells 5 million copies and it's still considered a financial flop, publishing sales data stops being useful - look at Tomb Raider).

We often mock MS for moving from sales to MAUs, but the industry as a whole will soon move in that direction because the games that make bank are those who don't sell at retail for 60$. And nobody wants to tell that to audiences.
 

SG-17

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
9,225
Like I said the movie industry is way more transparent.

I don't deny that there is a strong inertia, so things don't really move. Except in the VG industry in which you are getting less and less data. Does it happen in other industries ?
Most other industries the exact sales data is confidential between the vendor, the retailer, the shareholders, and analyst groups like Nielsen and IRi.
 

ShinobiBk

Banned
Dec 28, 2017
7,033
So, I can easily access movie ticket sales WW, or TV ratings for each night, and I can easily access music sales and have been able to do so for decades


Why is it video game industry is somehow special and their numbers are kept secret?

Even estimates would be fine
 

Blackbird

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,207
Brazil
This applies to almost all information in general. You can't make a call that information can be abused so it should not be out there. It is a wholly dishonest framing and even if yoy are not explicitly saying that, that is the path your argument leads to.



How is something not being taken away? The general public use to see unit sales of new releases on hardware and software and now it does not. That is very clearly a loss of general information. The fact that the data is less relevant to publisher success factors due to industry shift does not mean it no longer holds relevance otherwise it wouldnt be a tracked metric at all.



Communication is keybin any public facing industry. I unsure what the point of this statement is.



If all you wanted to use the data for was saying selling less means bomb sure. Otherwise, no public information is the full story on private industry, that doesnt mean it isnt useful, relevant or even on purely selfish level desireable.
We'll have to part ways before we start repeating ourselves again, lol.

I think at this point it's clear that i value accuracy for this specific line of work, and, you feel like this should be more open for the general people.

Good talk, tho.
 

hemo memo

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Oct 26, 2017
3,480
Alrest
"Secretive"?

How many books Penguin Random House sold last year?
What AppleTV and nVidia Shield LTDs?
What about movie sales on Blu-Rays/DVDs per publisher in units?

See, videogame industry is actually much more open than any other industry.
Lol c’mon now.

The movie industry shares everything and making movies is hard but more importantly management which they are good at while the video game industry fail at.
 

SG-17

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
9,225
So, I can easily access movie ticket sales WW, or TV ratings for each night, and I can easily access music sales and have been able to do so for decades


Why is it video game industry is somehow special and their numbers are kept secret?
It's not special, it's the other way around. Film and TV are the exception to the rule.
 
OP
OP
Lelouch0612

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,489
But why? It's just the way it is, accept it. We (read: gamers) have no say in this, it's not our data. The only thing we do is misinterpret the data and use it to "prove" how bad certain titles are doing even though we don't know the whole pictures because the lack of digital sales data.

I too would love to see more sales data instead of less. But the fact remains that sales data of physical games is becoming less and less important. And using it to get a picture of how a title or the industry as a whole is performing is getting harder and harder.
So we need more data. I totally agree.

Discussion won't stop because we have less numbers, they'll just become more groundless and deceiving.
 

Adamska

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,852
I do think OP should be asking himself: "Is it entitlement when I demand a company to give me the product of their work for free?"

Sure, they did so before, but regardless of how the decision was made, it's their decision. Also, it's very weak to say "we need numbers because they increase the quality of sales threads". Folks, posting reasonably is what increases the quality in any thread, sales or otherwise. Report people whose posts are out of line, don't say there being numbers will somehow make posts better.
 

CG Amor

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,475
Generally, it feels like gaming press like to talk/speculate about how a game supposedly sold, but don't care about having the actual numbers
Most of the gaming press are little more than bloggers offering opinion on games. They are not journalists.
I do think a few try to actively do what journalists should do, but yeah for the most part the press is just a bunch of sensationalized opinions about everything. But in all reality, look at main stream news now. Though there are people out there that are genuine journalists doing quality work, but for the most part the main stream news is just as bad. We've become a world of click bait headlines and drama. The quality of something is measured by the type of reaction it can get out of you.

So at most, you might have kotaku report on this, but it will probably be a paragraph.

I think game journalist probably have it a bit tough too. The industry can be very tight lipped and full of contracts so sometimes getting to the root of things is problematic. But the whole point of being a journalist in some respects is having the bravery to stand up against all the bullshit. Telling stories that need to be told. Like I have already said I think there's a few that do a modertly good job of this and I'm sure they're aware of it.

Only forum users care about sales data, press and mainstream audience don't care.
This 100%. I can tell you now, from my own site's experience, traffic on sales data (and even more so on Japanese sales data) is complete shite. The general public couldn't give two shits how much Red Dead Redemption 2 sold in Japan, they care about how to play as John Marston and how to get secrets in the game.
I wouldn't think the general public cares more about box office sales, yet those are discussed all the time. The movie industry is also far more transparent then the game industry as whole.

The average gamer would care more if it was something that actually started being discussed on a regular basis. The lack of transparency only leads to less honesty in the industry, and companies should be more honest about things in general.
 

ArmadilloGame

Member
Oct 27, 2017
704
95% of the gaming press is just enthusiast press that wants to think that they are real journalists. Kotaku, USGamer, gamesindustry.biz, and more are the (sometimes) exceptions, but games journalism is often barely an industry.
 

LazyLain

Banned
Jan 17, 2019
1,413
Goodness gracious, the entitlement.

1: No. They're not your numbers or our numbers. They're Media Create's numbers.
2: It isn't publishers pushing not to publish them publicly, but Media Create itself. They're a company, and they want to make money with their work.
3: The numbers won't be publicly available via Media Create on Friday. This doesn't mean that publications like 4Gamer won't pay for them to publish them.
4: Even if Media Create numbers become completely unavailable, There are still Famitsu's numbers, which are nearly equivalent.
5: The gaming press' role isn't to bitch at a company that wants to sell its work instead of giving it away for free.

Again. They're not your or our numbers. They belong to Media Create.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Game journalists aren't covering this because there likely isn't a story to cover. The odds of this being some sort of conspiratorial effort to hide sales data are extremely low, it's almost certainly just Media Create deciding that their data is valuable enough that they perhaps shouldn't continue giving it out freely.
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
4,074
So instead of calling out companies directly, we should call out the gaming press?
Man, I'm tired of the disrespect that this forum is giving to the gaming journalist just in the hope to "outsource" the pressure at gaming companies.

Want the press to take notice? So convince enough people in the internet that this is important, and they will cover the story.
 

Apa504

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,284
Sure, they did so before, but regardless of how the decision was made, it's their decision. Also, it's very weak to say "we need numbers because they increase the quality of sales threads". Folks, posting reasonably is what increases the quality in any thread, sales or otherwise. Report people whose posts are out of line, don't say there being numbers will somehow make posts better.
This post is dumb.
Having information will always lead to good discussion and always discussing facts.
No information leads to everyone having the absolute truth and nothing can prove otherwise.