After playing Ocarina of Time randomizer, I want this to be a mode in every future [linear] Zelda

[MJForum Poster]

If you're not familiar with the trend of "randomizers" that are featured in Twitch races and even some Games Done Quick events, they are essentially mods to popular older games that people know very well (Link to the Past, Super Metroid, Ocarina of Time, etc.). They randomize the placement of key items and weapons in those games, allowing players a unique experience each time they play. This builds on the sequence breaking trend that became so popular with speed running communities - an item that you typically get in the early game may be hidden behind the second to last boss, but a very powerful endgame item could be the first thing you come across.

I've replayed Ocarina of Time more than any other game - I'd probably ballpark it in the hundreds of playthroughs at this point. I know where almost every chest/item is in the game, which chests are fakes/traps, which are unnecessary, etc. So this weekend I decided I wanted to replay Ocarina of Time again and decided to do it with a randomizer. The generator is incredibly fine grained, letting you go from basic randomization (just key items) all the way to location insanity, where every exit of an area could drop you into any other location of the game, and key insanity, where any small key you find can be used in any dungeon. I went somewhere in the middle, choosing to shuffle the items and weapons only. I made the decision to keep the starting sword where it was so I could make some initial progress, but I shuffled in the trading quest items, which ended up being a huge factor in how fun this run was. I never got the egg with the Cucco needed to wake up Talon at Hyrule Castle and start the child Link trading quest - which meant I just flat out missed several item opportunities as child Link, which really stonewalled me for a while.

I learned a lot about the logic of Ocarina of Time in this playthrough. For example, you only need the Song of Time to open the Door of Time and become adult Link - you don't need all three spiritual stones. As soon as I got an ocarina, I made it a mission to find the Song of Time - which ended up being where the Piece of Heart usually is in the Windmill. Where I once thought this was only accessible by a glitched jump or adult Link, I found out I could use the boomerang to grab it, which unlocked the second half of the run.

There were more major finds that really helped take me from being stuck to opening the run wide up. I had to go all the way to the Gerudo Training Ground as Adult Link just to get magic, so I could use Din's Fire to get into the Shadow Temple. And I ended up doing all of Beneath the Well and the Shadow Temple up to the boss without the Lens of Truth, which unbeknownst to me was hidden behind the second Dampe race. I was poking in and out of dungeons, making little bits of progress wherever I could, desperate for any chest that would grant me a useful item that would let me progress elsewhere. It reminded me of my very first playthrough as a kid, where I got so stuck as adult Link in the Forest Temple that I ended up going and starting the Fire and Water Temples simultaneously, all without the Fairy Bow, and tried to make as much progress as I could without having that crucial item.

All of this made me think that I love the general Zelda formula so much (a mix of dungeons and overworld, with major and minor items sprinkled across them) that having a mode that really randomizes the placement of the items and opens up some of the typical gatekeeping would make me want to replay each game so much more. However, I'm not sure if every Zelda game would be as fun as OoT, with its overlapping items for some puzzles (bombs/bombchus, slingshot/boomerang) and unique platforming items (hover boots). Thinking through a Skyward Sword randomizer doesn't seem as fun, as the items are pretty narrowly used in the areas they're found. Nintendo probably thought they had solved this with Breath of the Wild, but that game is a little too open for this use case - I still want to be as stumped as I was at several points in this run, desperate for one item that would let me make progress in an entirely different part of the world.

 

[Powerofthecloud]

I don't understand this, does this mean the items are still in the same area? If not would you run into issues in some games where you can't proceed due to not having an item to get you into an area. Metroid (NES) for example, the first thing you get is the morph ball. If you did not have that, how would you proceed as the next room to the right of where you start you need need to use it to proceed?

 

[upandaway]

This sounds similar to something I always wanted, I wouldn't frame it as a "randomizer mode" in the speedrun sense but something like the Second Quest of the original game, but instead of hard-coded switcheroo, it would be randomized, and it would switch around more things. I feel like that's a natural extension of the "second quest" idea that they had but they couldn't explore it to the fullest, because then it becomes "endless" quests.

 

[Sander VF]

I have no opinion on randomizers, but I will agree with you, because you're a better forum poster than me and I know it.

Seriously though, I wish Nintendo would implement a randomizer in a Zelda release of some sort so I'd get to try it for myself.

 

[Uncle at Nintendo]

Couldn't you lock yourself out though? Like if you don't get the longshot before Water Temple you are totally fucked.

 

[MJForum Poster]

I don't understand this, does this mean the items are still in the same area? If not would you run into issues in some games where you can't proceed due to not having an item to get you into an area. Metroid (NES) for example, the first thing you get is the morph ball. If you did not have that, how would you proceed as the next room to the right of where you start you need need to use it to proceed?

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This is good point and something I failed to mention. There is complex logic built into the randomizer so that unless you choose the top difficulty which may not be solvable, every random generation IS beatable. It may take you to get creative (like boomeranging the item in the windmill as Child Link) or not having the Lens of Truth when you need it, but you can get by with knowledge of the game (where invisible things should be) and creating your own tools to progress. Somewhere in your currently accessible areas is an item you need to make progress elsewhere. You just gotta check secret grottos and every dungeon room in OoT, for example. That logic needs to be programmed into any mode that tries to do this.

This sounds similar to something I always wanted, I wouldn't frame it as a "randomizer mode" in the speedrun sense but something like the Second Quest of the original game, but instead of hard-coded switcheroo, it would be randomized, and it would switch around more things.

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Yeah if you're familar with the Master Quest version of OoT, where they redo the way you move through the dungeons and how you find the items, it's like that but for the entire game.

 

[Ayirek]

Couldn't you lock yourself out though? Like if you don't get the longshot before Water Temple you are totally fucked.

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No, randomizers have logic built in ensuring all items needed to progress can be found in areas already accessible. Check out some of SpeedGaming's rando tournaments on YouTube.

I would love for an official randomizer mode baked in, they're a ton of fun and really make you think about the games in a new way.

 

[StormEagle]

Couldn't you lock yourself out though? Like if you don't get the longshot before Water Temple you are totally fucked.

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Randomizers usually have very intricate logic to prevent this from happening by restricting the possibilities of where items can be. This also creates some rather hard-coded item locations that ensure that a certain key is always present in an area so that you can proceed. Basic logic assumes that you are always choosing the worst options along your route. (at least the alttp randomizer does)
But those are not always perfect, so randomizers go through a lot of iterations to fix their logic.

This is also a problem I see for official Nintendo randomizers. They would have to be perfect and make locking yourself out impossible. That would take quite some resources for a very limited number of customers.
The game also has to be relatively lax with its progression restrictions to allow for the 'sequence breaking'.

 

[MJForum Poster]

Randomizers usually have very intricate logic to prevent this from happening by restricting the possibilities of where items can be. This also creates some rather hard-coded item locations that ensure that a certain key is always present in an area so that you can proceed. Basic logic assumes that you are always choosing the worst options along your route. (at least the alttp randomizer does)
But those are not always perfect, so randomizers go through a lot of iterations to fix their logic.

This is also a problem I see for official Nintendo randomizers. They would have to be perfect and make locking yourself out impossible. That would take quite some resources for a very limited number of customers.
The game also has to be relatively lax with its progression restrictions to allow for the 'sequence breaking'.

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Yeah, and even when such a situation is beatable, it's going to be beyond a lot of average players. In the Shadow Temple with the room with the invisible spikes on the floor and the Redead, I had to backflip onto a chest and then hookshot (did not have longshot at this point) to an invisible target just to get to the door I needed to proceed. I knew the layout of the room and where the targets and platforms were, but that's gonna be a lot to ask from somebody who just played the game once normally and is diving into a randomizer run.

Still, I think with how popular streaming is, a lot of those types of creative solutions will spread by word of mouth, similar to playground gossip back in the day.

 

[Zevenberge]

I totally agree. I've been playing the ALTTP one for a while. I think ALTTP is the most suited of all 2D Zeldas. It's mostly progression based, but parts of the world open up rather quickly, allowing you to pick a route. Part of the charm is that ALTTP is programmed rather simplistically. For example, you need the flippers to swim. Or rather, to enter the water. If you're in the water, then you can swim without flippers. There are a few ways to trick the game into skipping the check and end up swimming without the flippers (called fake flippers). Or enter dark rooms without a light source. These kind of sequence breaks (as in, breaking the logic of the randomized seed) make the game really interesting.

I've never tried the OOT one though. An ALTTP randomizer run takes me (with a bit of training, but by far not tournament ready) just over 2 hours, depending on my luck. That's a nice sweet spot to be able to finish a run in one evening. I can imagine OOT taking much, much longer and I am quite intimidated by that.

 

[MJForum Poster]

I totally agree. I've been playing the ALTTP one for a while. I think ALTTP is the most suited of all 2D Zeldas. It's mostly progression based, but parts of the world open up rather quickly, allowing you to pick a route. Part of the charm is that ALTTP is programmed rather simplistically. For example, you need the flippers to swim. Or rather, to enter the water. If you're in the water, then you can swim without flippers. There are a few ways to trick the game into skipping the check and end up swimming without the flippers (called fake flippers). Or enter dark rooms without a light source. These kind of sequence breaks (as in, breaking the logic of the randomized seed) make the game really interesting.

I've never tried the OOT one though. An ALTTP randomizer run takes me (with a bit of training, but by far not tournament ready) just over 2 hours, depending on my luck. That's a nice sweet spot to be able to finish a run in one evening. I can imagine OOT taking much, much longer and I am quite intimidated by that.

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I've always been interested in the LttP runs but my knowledge of that game is far Below my memorization of Ocarina. The examples you gave sound cool though so maybe I need to dive in.

A lot of Ocarinas randomizer difficulty is that you can waste chests as child Link with items only usable by adult Link. I got hover boots and the Mirror Shield pretty early on in my run. It was great once I was adult Link, but man it was an uphill climb to get there.

 

[softfocus]

I was hoping Nintendo would release those "SP" version of SNES games that would contain a hack like a randomiser.
We might still get it, at this rate in 2024.

 

[Red]

I wish randomizers were a standard post-game unlock. I've poured countless hours into Pokémon randomizers, and they often make the games more enjoyable than they were vanilla.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I've never tried a randomizer?
Is there any chance it will produce something unbeatable? Like not enough keys, or no access to where you need to go?

 

[CypherSignal]

I don't understand this, does this mean the items are still in the same area? If not would you run into issues in some games where you can't proceed due to not having an item to get you into an area. Metroid (NES) for example, the first thing you get is the morph ball. If you did not have that, how would you proceed as the next room to the right of where you start you need need to use it to proceed?

Click to shrink...

I'll pick a slightly more interesting example besides Metroid (or even Super Metroid): A Link to the Past.

In "Vanilla" progression, the order you get items for the first part of the game is almost assuredly going to be:

- Lamp in Link's House
- Sword from Uncle
- Bow in Eastern Palace
- Pegasus Boots from Sahasrahla (after you get the Green Pendant from EP)
- Book of Mudora from Library (using boots)
- Power glove from Desert Palace
- Magic Mirror from Old Man on Death Mountain (gated by power glove)
- Moon Pearl from Tower of Hera
- Master sword from Pedestal (after getting 3rd pendant)
- Agahnim, and you're in the dark world

All alongside that, though, there's about 30 different item locations that mostly contain other stuff. Rupees. Pieces of heart. More rupees. Bombs. Arrows.

So just with the first half of the game, let's say you shuffle the items so that, say, Power Glove is in the Kakariko race game (which is accessible without any abilities whatsoever) and Magic Mirror is in Link's house. Now you have access to Tower of Hera without having gone through Desert Palace or Eastern Palace!

But, as mentioned above, there is a logic to how randomizers work -- for example, the Bow cannot be placed in an item location that requires the Bow itself to access (plus any transitive dependencies). So, there must still be a sequence of events that leads you to the Bow, even though you only have access to Tower of Hera -- maybe the Bow is now in ToH? And maybe the boss in Eastern Palace will then drop the Book to let you into Desert Palace, and so on and so forth.

If you then expand that randomization out even further, and shuffle crystal and pendant locations, you get even more interesting logic. Maybe you find Hammer, Moon Pearl, and Power Glove in early Kakariko Village? Well, now you have access to the Dark World just by going into the portals north of Swamp Palace, north of Kakariko, and south of Eastern Palace -- all without obtaining the Bow, opening the Pedestal, or defeating Agahnim! All you need to do to beat the game is get 7 crystals to enter Ganon's Tower, and possibly skip acquisition of any pendants at all.

The way ALttP's logic unravels can be really interesting, ultimately. Like, technically Magic Mirror is only strictly required for about 6 or 7 items in the game: Access to Swamp Palace, and the "Mimic Cave" containing a piece of heart alongside Turtle Rock. It's possible to access Tower of Hera via Eastern Death Mountain if you find the hookshot somewhere, first. Or, if you want to complete Skull Woods, all you need is West Dark World Access, Fighter Sword (Lv. 1), and Fire Rod. And so on. It allows for a great amount of variety in potential routes, and requires a lot of advanced knowledge of the game's map and mechanics.

 

[MJForum Poster]

I've never tried a randomizer?
Is there any chance it will produce something unbeatable? Like not enough keys, or no access to where you need to go?

Click to shrink...

See the above post by CypherSignal for a great example of how the built-in logic prevents you from getting stuck

 

[BennyWhatever]

I'm playing Dark Souls randomizer now and it is indeed fun. Might have to try it for OoT. Do they have one for the game boy Link's Awakening?

 

[Zevenberge]

I've always been interested in the LttP runs but my knowledge of that game is far Below my memorization of Ocarina. The examples you gave sound cool though so maybe I need to dive in.

A lot of Ocarinas randomizer difficulty is that you can waste chests as child Link with items only usable by adult Link. I got hover boots and the Mirror Shield pretty early on in my run. It was great once I was adult Link, but man it was an uphill climb to get there.

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I should note that the tricks I mentioned are optional. Especially the simple item placement assumes no advanced knowledge of the game. You can use a helper (https://github.com/crossproduct42/alttprandohelper, just hit "Clone or download" -> "Download as zip") to find the locations that are accessible given a set of items.

Yeah, finding items you have no use for sounds pretty though. It reminds me of the "Inverted" mode of ALTTPR, the most interesting one. You start in the Dark world and try to move towards the light world. Enemies are unchanged, so there's an insane difficulty spike at the start.

 

[MJForum Poster]

I should note that the tricks I mentioned are optional. Especially the simple item placement assumes no advanced knowledge of the game. You can use a helper (https://github.com/crossproduct42/alttprandohelper, just hit "Clone or download" -> "Download as zip") to find the locations that are accessible given a set of items.

Yeah, finding items you have no use for sounds pretty though. It reminds me of the "Inverted" mode of ALTTPR, the most interesting one. You start in the Dark world and try to move towards the light world. Enemies are unchanged, so there's an insane difficulty spike at the start.

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That inverted mode actually sounds great.

I should add that the OoT Randomizer community has now moved onto "multi world" runs, where you might find a Hookshot item in your game that is needed in another players game. And they might find the bow in their game that you need in yours. I wonder how long it will take an actual developer to build a game from the ground up around this concept.

 

[Capra]

That inverted mode actually sounds great.

I should add that the OoT Randomizer community has now moved onto "multi world" runs, where you might find a Hookshot item in your game that is needed in another players game. And they might find the bow in their game that you need in yours. I wonder how long it will take an actual developer to build a game from the ground up around this concept.

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One of my friends is into multiworlds and it sounds pretty crazy, albeit super niche and tedious for anyone just looking to play the game. It'd be interesting to see if that style of mod branches off into other games, or if someone can design an original game around that.

 

[MJForum Poster]

One of my friends is into multiworlds and it sounds pretty crazy, albeit super niche and tedious for anyone just looking to play the game. It'd be interesting to see if that style of mod branches off into other games, or if someone can design an original game around that.

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I could see it as a fun alternative to queuing for a multiplayer game, but it definitely wouldn't be my main way of playing. Like everything, probably much better with friends.

 

[Deleted member 48813]

I like the idea of having a randomizer as an official feature even though I haven't played with one because it's really cool for replayability (much like OoT's Master Quest). But sadly we don't even know if we'll even get another linear Zelda again (If we do it'll likely be 2D) considering BotW's success.

 

[Carcosan Stag]

One thing I always use for randomizers are trackers, programs that help you keep track of what items you've found and what places they unlock in the progression. These are incredibly useful visual aids that I honestly couldn't do without. My absolute favorite one that has tons of game trackers built into it and a really slick ui is the following:

EmoTracker

emotracker.net

Emotracker has saved me sooooo much time and stress because some of the trackers, like the link to the past or even the link to the past/super Metroid combo randomizer, show chest locations on an over world image that have different colors depending on if you have the means to access it or not. Super useful and highly recommended!

 

[Deleted member 11976]

Not sure if it's everyone's cup of tea but I think there's a few recent 2D zeldalike games that are built to use randomization by default: Lenna's Inception, Songbringer, Sparklite. I've not played any of them but figured they might be of interest to some folks here.

 

[linkboy]

The craziest randomize to me is the Link to the Past/Super Metroid one. It combines both games and randomizes item locations between the two games.

For example, you might find the morph ball in the library in Kakariko, but the bow will be somewhere in Merida.

It requires expert knowledge in both games to fully beat it.

 

[Asbsand]

I concur. I also hope with this in mind that we get more linear zeldas because I think BotW is Nintendo's "Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare" moment.

 

[No Depth]

I've only dabbled with a Zelda 1 randomizer many, many years ago and adored it. Absolutely felt it is a missed opportunity for such a concept to not be included in the core game's as a bonus mode. Had no idea they graduated to the 3D games.

Also, Resident Evil works perfectly with it as well. I think one of the PS1 re-releases included a quasi version of this?

 

[Glio]

I don't think they will make a linear Zelda again in a long time.

 

[StormEagle]

Yeah, and even when such a situation is beatable, it's going to be beyond a lot of average players. In the Shadow Temple with the room with the invisible spikes on the floor and the Redead, I had to backflip onto a chest and then hookshot (did not have longshot at this point) to an invisible target just to get to the door I needed to proceed. I knew the layout of the room and where the targets and platforms were, but that's gonna be a lot to ask from somebody who just played the game once normally and is diving into a randomizer run.

Still, I think with how popular streaming is, a lot of those types of creative solutions will spread by word of mouth, similar to playground gossip back in the day.

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I don't know the zootr as I have no big connection to OOT, but alttpr. Alttp is a bit more limited in execution and all such crazy tricks would be seen as minor or major glitches which are not required (unless you play a seed with glitches logic or no logic at all).
Alttpr might ask you to kill bosses without a sword though or late game bosses quite under-leveled.
There is an easy mode though that gives many quality of life updates for beginners and it might make the logic easier too.
Also, there are many guides and trackers to help out.

Well, yes, they are already spreading in dedicated communities and the alttpr community has grown tremendously, but randomizers will still be super niche. I guess mainly due to the games being old or old looking.
Maybe if someone made a popular modern game with modern graphics and an accessible randomizer mode it might become popular enough for big players to copy it. Otherwise I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[BasilZero]

Never knew this was a thing

I should try it out

 

[LinkStrikesBack]

I don't think they will make a linear Zelda again in a long time.

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Maybe a 2d one? Certainly don't see a 3d one though, you're right. Especially wouldn't really work for BOTW anyway since the game basically gives you everything in the first hour or two anyway.

 

[Yoshimitsu126]

The craziest randomize to me is the Link to the Past/Super Metroid one. It combines both games and randomizes item locations between the two games.

For example, you might find the morph ball in the library in Kakariko, but the bow will be somewhere in Merida.

It requires expert knowledge in both games to fully beat it.

Click to shrink...

Wait how do you switch between the games?

 

[Canas Renvall]

I've only dabbled with a Zelda 1 randomizer many, many years ago and adored it. Absolutely felt it is a missed opportunity for such a concept to not be included in the core game's as a bonus mode. Had no idea they graduated to the 3D games.

Also, Resident Evil works perfectly with it as well. I think one of the PS1 re-releases included a quasi version of this?

Click to shrink...

Actually, to date, one of the only games with an official randomizer mode is the N64 port of RE2. RE3 mixes some things up here and there, but RE2 N64 shuffles around all non-plot-critical items if you want it to. Sadly, there's no full randomizer that's been officially released, but the one you can download for REmake on PC is lots of fun.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Randomisers in general are fantastic and a crazy fun way to replay a classic title; but I totally get why they aren't considered for retail games. They lead to a janky and unpolished experience which, while all part of the fun, is not really acceptable for a retail release. They also require an expert level of knowledge to really complete.

There's no way that they could really include them in a way that would satisfy players who enjoy randomisers. They'd have to be watered down to the point where it isn't really all that fun anymore.

 

[linkboy]

Wait how do you switch between the games?

Click to shrink...

Certain entrances and exits in both games are modified to be the bridge between both games.

For example, the fortune teller house by Lake Hylia will take you to Super Metroid.

 

[MJForum Poster]

Not sure if it's everyone's cup of tea but I think there's a few recent 2D zeldalike games that are built to use randomization by default: Lenna's Inception, Songbringer, Sparklite. I've not played any of them but figured they might be of interest to some folks here.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for making me aware of these, I added them to my Steam wishlist.

 

[platypotamus]

I was thinking last year when I played randomized LTTP for the first time how much I would love a 2D Link's Mixed Up Adventure that was some sort of official 2D zelda remixer/ randomizer. Lemme pay you $40 for a thing where I can set some settings, hit go, and be in some sort of randomized mashup of 2D zelda that works. I'll never need another game

 

[Luigi87]

While I doubt Nintendo would implement one themselves, I do absolutely love ZOoTR and LttPR.

Ocarina of Time is my favourite video game, period, and ZOoTR breathed new life into it for me, that I enjoy playing a seed every few weeks. I also love how customizable the randomizers are. The teams that have developed these have done fantastic work.
And yeah, just learning the logic and progression of the games is a lot of fun. First few seeds I absolutely needed a map tracker to let me know where the checks I had open in OoT were, but now I can do it mapless.

 

[Glio]

Maybe a 2d one? Certainly don't see a 3d one though, you're right. Especially wouldn't really work for BOTW anyway since the game basically gives you everything in the first hour or two anyway.

Click to shrink...

ALBW was already the first step to experiment in open Zelda.

 

[Hecht]

I've been playing the LTTP randomizer for years now, and it's still one I come back to. It's just so much fun. Had a seed a bit ago where all the sword upgrades were in Ganon's Tower, so that was fun lol.

 

[badcrumble]

This does sound fun/interesting to butt your head up against. Ocarina of Time might actually be the least suitable Zelda game for such a thing, though, given the completely separate adult/child item sets. I could see something like this being an absolute blast with Link to the Past or Majora's Mask (which would have its own very weird set of dependencies, obviously).

 

[Mirage]

This does sound fun/interesting to butt your head up against. Ocarina of Time might actually be the least suitable Zelda game for such a thing, though, given the completely separate adult/child item sets. I could see something like this being an absolute blast with Link to the Past or Majora's Mask (which would have its own very weird set of dependencies, obviously).

Click to shrink...

LTTP probably has the most well known randomizer.

 

[MJForum Poster]

This does sound fun/interesting to butt your head up against. Ocarina of Time might actually be the least suitable Zelda game for such a thing, though, given the completely separate adult/child item sets. I could see something like this being an absolute blast with Link to the Past or Majora's Mask (which would have its own very weird set of dependencies, obviously).

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I think the child/adult split actually helps from a difficulty and anticipation standpoint. While I was stuck as child Link, I was racking up all these great adult Link items - Hover Boots, Iron Boots, Mirror Shield, Goron's Tunic, Hookshot....I couldn't wait to get to use it all to explore right after getting out of the Temple of Time.

 

[Anth0ny]

Would be a way more exciting post game unlock than shitty hero mode tbh

 

[Dekuman]

YouTube kept recommending me this specific Randomizer.video and the dudes voice sound like the comic book guy's, and of course he was complaining the whole time, that's the only exposure I had on this mod but was a huge turnoff. I'll try to find better videos to actually sit down and watch one of these let's plays

 

[KDR_11k]

Not sure if it's everyone's cup of tea but I think there's a few recent 2D zeldalike games that are built to use randomization by default: Lenna's Inception, Songbringer, Sparklite. I've not played any of them but figured they might be of interest to some folks here.

Click to shrink...

The big difference between a randomizer and a completely procedural game is what the randomizer won't change. E.g. the level geometry and puzzles remain the same by default so you always know what item set you need to get where but you don't know where those items are hidden. When you find the fire and ice rod you know you can beat Trinexx (the Turtle Rock boss), when you see an important item locked by an item you're missing you can tell that the missing item(s) cannot be in places you cannot access without that item you're seeing.

I could see it as a fun alternative to queuing for a multiplayer game, but it definitely wouldn't be my main way of playing. Like everything, probably much better with friends.

Click to shrink...

You don't want to play Multiworld with people you cannot trust because those are a weakest-link kind of deal, if one player isn't finding the items hidden in their game then that will block other players from progressing and even in an ideal team you're going to end up with someone in BK mode* at times and you gotta trust them to not quit at that point.

*) BK mode means you've run out of things you can do until someone else finds an item for you so you go to Burger King.

YouTube kept recommending me this specific Randomizer.video and the dudes voice sound like the comic book guy's, and of course he was complaining the whole time, that's the only exposure I had on this mod but was a huge turnoff. I'll try to find better videos to actually sit down and watch one of these let's plays

Click to shrink...

Try some Andy, he's good at the games and usually fairly informative too so you should be able to follow his logic.

 

[The Cowpuncher]

Anyone know who it was who did the LttP randomizer run at AGDQ this year? I gotta dig up that link, the crowd interaction stuff was hilarious.

Edit: Nevermind it's that Andy the person above me linked.

 

[PyroPaperPlanes]

I've been obsessed with the Metroid Prime randomizer this past month. It's hilarious how they can play out (e.g. you might discover Morph Ball and Power Bombs, then have to figure out where to grab the regular Morph Ball Bombs). It's really taught me how to progress through a room as fast as possible with and without key items.

The item logic by default is "glitchless" - the player is not expected to use any exploits to sequence break and acquire items earlier than intended. Not that there's anything from stopping you doing that. If you're feeling confident, you can tweak the item logic to expect the player to be able to perform said tricks in a run.

The goal condition can be changed to simply finding the items to defeat Metroid Prime at anytime, defeat all bosses, or acquire a set amount of artifacts. The artifacts by default are also randomized, so the player might wish to acquire some flavoured hints from the artifact temple.

The latest version of the randomizer (soon to be released) also gives the option to randomize where the elevators take you for an addition challenge. Heck, the Echoes randomizer can make your starting location unique!

The one thing the player must keep in mind is the potential for softlocks. The randomizer does as much as it can to prevent players from locking themselves into an unwinnable condition, but it can happen. For example, if the player were to prematurely go into a Morph Ball Bombs slot without Morph Ball Bombs, they will become stuck. Fortunately the FAQ on the randomizer website mentions which locations to be weary. The discord community is also incredibly friendly.

So yeah, of you're a fan of Metroid Prime or Echoes, I highly recommend giving it a shot. We're hoping GDQ accepts a run submission from us!

Link: https://randomizer.metroidprime.run/

 

[GabriocheXD]

I haven't tried OOT randomizer yet (I last played it when it came out and it scares me so much.), but I feel the ALTTP randomizer really highlights how well made the original game is, even though it was all accidental because it wasn't made with being a randomizer in mind.

Like, it doesn't matter how hard you break it, be it with keysanity or entrance randomizer, everything always works perfectly. There's always 2-3 ways you can go somewhere (Tower of Hera and Death Mountain in particular, but also some places in the Dark World). It's also amazing how certain items really shine when you get to use them in new contexts. Killing the first boss in Palace of Darkness with bombs and arrows? Why not!

I've completed around 50 runs, and it still feels fresh. It's so fun it killed the base game for me. I love how it FEELS like a roguelike, but everything is always familiar and logical, and because the base game is perfectly crafted, it feels like a puzzle.

Other randomizers I highly recommend are Mario 3, FF5 Career day, FF4 free enterprise, Super Metroid, the Zelda3/SM combo and La-Mulana (You need to know the game by heart for this one, but it's my favorite randomizer of them all with Zelda3). I've yet to try FF6 Worlds collide, but it looks like a lot of fun too!

 

[CypherSignal]

Like, it doesn't matter how hard you break it, be it with keysanity or entrance randomizer, everything always works perfectly. There's always 2-3 ways you can go somewhere (Tower of Hera and Death Mountain in particular, but also some places in the Dark World). It's also amazing how certain items really shine when you get to use them in new contexts. Killing the first boss in Palace of Darkness with bombs and arrows? Why not!

Click to shrink...

Hey, maybe even less than that, sometimes! (first hour of this one is buck wild; definitely one of my favourites in terms of "wacko logic")