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Airlines beginning to ground Boeing 737-Max following Ethiopian Airline crash [UP: Trump orders grounding of fleet in the US]

KHarvey16

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
Businesses are making business decisions. If we assume this problem is the same as the Lion Air crash (which is premature but not without merit), the issue is pilots not actually following the checklist.
 
KingSnake

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,001
Even if it ends up not being a technical issue with this model, 2 big deadly crashes in a matter of months for such a new plane in these times means something is wrong somewhere on the chain. Be it the plane itself, maintenance or pilot training, something is fishy and needs to be solved.
 
tabris

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,237
Ugh it's awful that the best planes like Airbus 380 are being

And the cheap planes were getting so much purchases.

Maybe this will change the stance? Actually it'll just probably have these airlines keep on recycling those Airbus 319's, 320's, and Boeing 737/747's like the US Airlines keep doing.
 
ChrisR

ChrisR

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,798
A380s are done, won't be making more of them much longer.

Boeing needs to speak up and soon
 
StarCreator

StarCreator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,855
I have to admit I looked up my upcoming travel itinerary to make sure I wasn't flying on one of these planes. (There's a "737-800" at the end of my itinerary, but I'm not sure if that refers to these new planes or an older model.) It makes sense on all levels to do this, because you just don't take risks with people's lives.
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
StarCreator said:
I have to admit I looked up my upcoming travel itinerary to make sure I wasn't flying on one of these planes. (There's a "737-800" at the end of my itinerary, but I'm not sure if that refers to these new planes or an older model.) It makes sense on all levels to do this, because you just don't take risks with people's lives.
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I flew yesterday on a 737-800 after reading about the recent crash and yeah it's a bit of an older plane.
 
GoldenEye 007

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
tabris said:
Ugh it's awful that the best planes like Airbus 380 are being

And the cheap planes were getting so much purchases.

Maybe this will change the stance? Actually it'll just probably have these airlines keep on recycling those Airbus 319's, 320's, and Boeing 737/747's like the US Airlines keep doing.
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Click to shrink...
American Airlines still flies MD-80s on some routes. Although they're apparently supposed to be finally fully phased out this year.
 

ced

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,755
KHarvey16 said:
Businesses are making business decisions. If we assume this problem is the same as the Lion Air crash (which is premature but not without merit), the issue is pilots not actually following the checklist.
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Click to shrink...

Seems a lot of pilots are saying there was a lack of training and documentation to the manual about the steps to disable the computer trying to prevent a stall when it gets bad sensor data on aoa and speed.
 
Arex

Arex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,509
Indonesia
tabris said:
Ugh it's awful that the best planes like Airbus 380 are being

And the cheap planes were getting so much purchases.

Maybe this will change the stance? Actually it'll just probably have these airlines keep on recycling those Airbus 319's, 320's, and Boeing 737/747's like the US Airlines keep doing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well the bulk of the flights are probably shorter range, 100-200 pax flights, and for those, the cheap Airbus 320s, 737s are the most popular and are probably gonna stay that way.
Airbus A380 is awesome, but I'd imagine it require longer landing strip and most smaller airports are probably also not compatible with the double deck structure.
 
KHarvey16

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
ced said:
Seems a lot of pilots are saying there was a lack of training and documentation to the manual about the steps to disable the computer trying to prevent a stall when it gets bad data on aoa and speed.
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The checklist itself is fine. The previous crew on that lion air plane actually followed it and addressed the issue.

Boeing added an additional reference in another location after the FAA issued an AD, but that was it.
 

Deleted member 2625

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
That's a shame, I hope it's not a design defect. I flew one back and forth to London a few weeks ago and it's a really lovely plane.
 
CelestialAtom

CelestialAtom

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,050
This concerns me, as I am taking this plane with Southwest in June. I hope this shit is fixed before then.
 
cameron

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,828
FAA says 737 Max remains airworthy:


The FAA @FAANews

UPDATED #FAA Statement on Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302.

3:42 PM - Mar 11, 2019 · Washington, DC

d1zt2ktx4aachbx8fk67.jpg
 

ruggiex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,087
Why can't FAA ground them like rest of the world while it's being investigated? Welp I guess it's up to the US to continue testing the planes.
 
menacer

menacer

Member
Dec 15, 2018
1,036
The last time I think there was so much panic and fear over flying on an airplane model it was with all of the DC-10 crashes in the 70's.
 
menacer

menacer

Member
Dec 15, 2018
1,036
They were well received and according to pilots actually beloved until they basically were all retired by the late 90's. It was just series after series of fatal accidents that set the public into panic.
 
Zweizer

Zweizer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
ruggiex said:
Why can't FAA ground them like rest of the world while it's being investigated? Welp I guess it's up to the US to continue testing the planes.
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Money and politics:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...of-737-max-could-turn-on-a-single-trump-tweet

There's no technical trigger for a grounding order. Instead, it's a judgment call by the department in question, complicated by the fact that the FAA currently doesn't have a permanent administrator. U.S. Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao, who's responsible for the agency and whose views would probably be decisive, seems to be taking a wait-and-see approach. Boeing's Chief Executive Officer Dennis Muilenburg, meanwhile, has worked hard to be close to President Donald Trump, who could decide the issue one way or another with a single tweet.
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GoldenEye 007

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
You have two crashes of months old planes within months of each other. Doesn't even matter that the causes aren't known to be related yet. Boeing's "Everything is fine." message isn't really going to work out well for them.
 
ItIsOkBro

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,516
Boeing and the FAA have been negligent in regards to the differences with this new plane and the only reason repercussions have been kept to a minimum so far is because the crashes have been Indonesia and Ethiopia.
 
Zweizer

Zweizer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
ItIsOkBro said:
Boeing and the FAA have been negligent in regards to the differences with this new plane and the only reason repercussions have been kept to a minimum so far is because the crashes have been Indonesia and Ethiopia.
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American businesses > black and brown peoples' lives. Basically business as usual.
 
GSG

GSG

Member
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,051
StarCreator said:
I have to admit I looked up my upcoming travel itinerary to make sure I wasn't flying on one of these planes. (There's a "737-800" at the end of my itinerary, but I'm not sure if that refers to these new planes or an older model.) It makes sense on all levels to do this, because you just don't take risks with people's lives.
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Check SeatGuru, it'll list the type of plane you're flying on(eg. https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Westjet/WestJet_Boeing_737_Max_8.php)

I don't think there should be a major concern flying on one of these planes, they've flown thousands and thousands of hours all around the world. I understand why many airlines are grounding the planes, but if I was flying on a 737-8 MAX today, I wouldn't be any more worried than I would be flying on any other plane. I'd be more worried flying on a McDonnell Douglas MD-80, which has a much deadlier history.
 
KHarvey16

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
kami_sama said:
I don't know. They still have more than 4000 outstanding orders, I think they will fundamentally change the way that the trimming works, at a great expense from the company, but I don't think airbus can supply all of those orders.
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If the issue is the same as the Lion Air crash there won't be any hardware changes. At most they'll tweak software but the biggest thing will be properly training pilots.

The first officer on this flight apparently had 200 hours of total flight time. That's very little.
 

Deleted member 4262

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,633
Looks like Norwegian is grounding them too. Good. Right now I wouldn't touch this plane even if you paid me.
 
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