Alec Holowka (Night in the Woods, TowerFall) accused of sexual assault [Update: Alec Holowka has reportedly passed away] [See staff posts/threadmarks]

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Gundam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,239
I don't believe they meant that abuse survivors shouldn't come forward online. I think they just meant that people should react in a less... aggressive manner to their allegations. (Certainly supportively towards the survivor but maybe cool the attitude towards the accused. It honestly doesn't help anyone, no matter how justified you may feel it is.)

As far as I've seen, no one was making death threats or encouraging suicide or self harm. Pinning this on "internet hate mobs" reeks of a bunch of unsavory attitudes.



Victim comes out with abuse -> Internet signal-boosting makes this aware to fans, family, friends, coworkers, etc -> Abuser is cut off from job opportunities in their industry


If you take out that middle part, who knows what positions of power the abuser can end up in or continue thriving in.


We can't know the details of Alec's passing - what he went through mentally or what his perceptions of his future were. Insinuating that it's the fault of an internet hate mob, to me, is to insinuate on some level that the abuse victim should not have come out with it at all
 
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funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,174
I really wish there was a better way to handle these situations and allegations then letting lose the hounds of the internet to rip peoples life apart.

I dont blame people coming forward with honest accusations.

its been a hell of a year for the bloody cycle of internet bullshit.


Fuck man. Im just a person on the internet. Im not gonna solve how to handle sexual abuse accusations and the internet mob mentality.
 

Icemonk191

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,269
He/she is saying suicide and mental illness is a complex thing. No one is saying people should forgive this dude or absolve him of responsibility for his actions because of this but rather to show some level of empathy to a situation that we don't have all the details about.

Like a dude just committed suicide and your immediate conclusion is to assume it was a weaponized act. You don't see the issue with that?
Just so people understand I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PERSON WHO JUST DIED!
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,954
Treating suicide (like an actual suicide, not the threat of suicide) as a weaponized act at all is incredibly ignorant and a disgusting thing to say in the first place.
No argument from me there. I dunno why people come into tragic threads and immediately wanna start trampling on a person who just died. Is there no such thing as tact or decency?
 

King Tubby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
584
Please break down what the hell you mean, because it just sounds like you're victim blaming and then saying "I'm not victim blaming though".
"Accusers are not at fault for what their abusers suffer as a result of their coming forward, but it's also a tragedy when it ends like this and I wish there were a better way."

You: "Fucking rape apologist"
 

nemoral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,071
Fiddler's Green
It's sad the Holowka felt so lost and depressed that he thought his only option was to take his life. That said, the accusers came forth because they had been given no other options by a society that doesn't care about abuse. And people responded honestly and emotionally to what happened to the victims, which is also fine. All the whining about mob mentality and twitter ignores that part of society's function is to express and coerce us to follow social order. We don't not-murder and not-rape and not-steal just because we might get caught, we don't do those things in part because they make us pariahs and the entire point of human society is to band together. No one wants to live in a society where rapists and murderers and sexual assaulters are seen as moral and social equals to people who aren't terrible.

Holowka got outed as a guy who behaved incredibly badly, and there are social consequences for that. Rather than face them -- almost certainly because he was depressed and depressed people can't see the future clearly -- he took his life. It's tragic, but the idea that it's anyone's fault or responsibility other than Holokwa's (or the genes and environment that created his mental illness) is misguided.
 

Danteyke223

Member
Oct 24, 2018
551
Wow... that sucks, feel bad for his family. Feel worse for his accuser who will now face even more backlash. They say that suicide is the cowards way out but this one feels especally cowardly. Instead of working towards forgiveness he has just made everyone he hurt lives much worse, not to mention the lives of the people who loved him.
I mean how do you work towards forgiveness if the response is for everyone to immediately get the guy fired, or cut ties with him asap. Without letting the guy explain himself, and not even trying to listen to him. Equally though if you try this, or I tried this we'll get called centrists, or we allow the abusers to get away so your above posts is just a catch 22 when you give it a thought.

I hate that it came to this, because the horrible people will use this as a weapon to criticize MeToo and this will inevitably make the accusers feel some degree of guilt, even if they shouldn't feel any because they were not in the wrong at all. Any kind of sympathy for the accused is misguided, denying himself the chance to become a better person was his decision and his alone, the accusers should be the ones to sympathize with, even more now since guilt will show its ugly face to them anyway.
The Quartering is already making a video against Quinn, stated so on Twitter.
 

Zefah

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,797
well, keeping this stuff confined to whisper networks clearly hasn't worked, so I dunno what you're suggesting as an alternative

Yes, in an ideal world, there would be effective systems in place where abuse wouldn't have to be dealt with publicly, but in the meantime, telling victims to keep their mouths shut out of concern for the well-being of their abusers does nothing to bring us closer to that world
Would you say that this is a good example of public accusations having "worked?"

I don't see why some of you are interpreting people's posts calling out hate mobs and their responsibility in incidents like this as telling victims to shut up or to not speak out.

Just so people understand I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PERSON WHO JUST DIED!
Maybe go make your generalized points elsewhere then? You can't blame people for assuming that you are talking about the person whose death was just reported in this thread. Get real.
 

Danteyke223

Member
Oct 24, 2018
551
Holowka got outed as a guy who behaved incredibly badly, and there are social consequences for that. Rather than face them -- almost certainly because he was depressed and depressed people can't see the future clearly -- he took his life. It's tragic, but the idea that it's anyone's fault or responsibility other than Holokwa's (or the genes and environment that created his mental illness) is misguided.
How do you face the future when everybody is screaming to cut ties, and fire you though ?
 

TissueBox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,342
Urinated States of America
That is just horrible if true, particularly if we're to read between the lines here. The kind of forlorn outcome born out of perceived unbearable dissonance without emotional relent and corrective chemistry.

RIP to Alec.

May his victims also be given minimal third party duress in this challenging time. They don't deserve any more woe than they have already strived to fight against in their solidarity against our culture's backwards, perverse underlying norms, of which, to them, Alec was a primary and real representative.

And all the best to his loved ones and family.

This harks back to Etika's incident a few months back; let us all try to do our best to band together moving forward, and express hope for better futures with productive mental health measures in place, as much as we rightfully advance unyielding damnation of our past and present pitfalls and those who enable it either in contradiction or publicized opposition.

This is no time to point fingers as all of the involved parties show potential to be great advocates and leaders of conscious social tides and tragedy befalling any of them like it has with Alex is still something that can be easily sympathized. Later on, we can pinpoint the issues and deficiencies and hypocrisies that reside in both system and individual here, because, of course, even the brightest and most good hearted of us are imperfect at heart. Until then, grief, and breathing room, and maybe a walk outside, is no wrong answer to such a situation. Someone that was trying to live well, to live right, was driven to end the fight today. And that is heartbreaking.
 
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Harlequin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,554
As far as I've seen, no one was making death threats or encouraging suicide or self harm. Pinning this on "internet hate mobs" reeks of a bunch of unsavory issues
Again, I'm not saying anyone online is to blame for his death. They aren't. All I'm saying is that going around telling alleged abusers to "go fuck themselves" or calling them "monsters" isn't the most productive way to spend your time and energy in situations like this, quite the opposite. Like I've explained previously:
Eh, to be fair, there were people calling him a monster, etc. (Which I object to on the simple basis that it implies normal humans aren't capable of doing these sorts of terrible things and thus creating a myth that has little grounding in reality and makes it more difficult to recognise these kinds of problems and help the people involved - including the offenders so they don't harm more people.) And now, I'm not saying that those people are responsible for his death or any such nonsense - his mental condition is to blame for that - but those kinds of comments certainly aren't helpful in any case. All they do is make the people who write them feel superior which is, frankly, quite a selfish motivation to have in a situation like this.
 

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,886
This whole story has been A 7 layer dip of awful. Awful for all sides, and the outcome is only going to fuel all the wrong people who are going to learn all the wrong lessons from this.
 

Trevelyon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
190
There's no solace for the victims or chance of penance and redemption for the abuser. Cruel world. Thoughts go to the family and to the victim.
 

minimaxir

Built an AI that makes better threads than you
Member
May 9, 2018
1,939
For those that are saying that the replies blaming Zoe Quinn are an isolated incident by random commenters, check the quote tweets of the original announcement. (and do not signal boost them here)

Many "Cancel culture is a mistake" tweets with tons of retweets.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,833
Brooklyn, NY
Would you say that this is a good example of public accusations having "worked?"

I don't see why some of you are interpreting people's posts calling out hate mobs and their responsibility in incidents like this as telling victims to shut up or to not speak out.
okay, what exactly are you suggesting Zoe Quinn or the other victims or the other two-thirds of Infinite Fall should have done instead, keeping in mind that (obviously) none of them wanted this outcome? I don't see how "you should watch what you say out of concern for abusers' well-being" leads anywhere except encouraging victims to be silent
 

Boy Wander

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,126
UK
Wow... that sucks, feel bad for his family. Feel worse for his accuser who will now face even more backlash. They say that suicide is the cowards way out but this one feels especally cowardly. Instead of working towards forgiveness he has just made everyone he hurt lives much worse, not to mention the lives of the people who loved him.
He had a mental illness you unempathetic fuck-bag.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,065
Just so people understand I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PERSON WHO JUST DIED!
That really wasn't clear, you should probably edit your post to clear that up.
No argument from me there. I dunno why people come into tragic threads and immediately wanna start trampling on a person who just died. Is there no such thing as tact or decency?
Because people are unequipped to handle the complexity of situations like this. It's much more difficult to reflect on the cycle of abuse and how abuse perpetuates in our society, how our lack of mental health treatment and lack of a rehabilitative justice system both silences victims and keeps the cycles of abuse turning. It's unfortunate but it's also incredibly human and a reflection of our society.
 

the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,393
What an incredibly sad situation. In this case the culture that enabled abuse hurt the abuser as well as the victims. A culture where abuse is acknowledged and addressed as it happens might have forced Alec to get help or leave the industry before his behavior alienated so many of his friends and came out as a huge public scandal.

The only way forward is for people to keep talking about abuse and harassment.
 

Wanderer5

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,758
Somewhere.
Wow, this took quite a turn. It's tragic that he just couldn't handle the situation, and despite having help, he is now gone. My condolences to his family.

And man is this going to be rough for Zoe, who should definitely not be blamed, nor Infinite Fall. But well the internet is a shitty place, so.
 

clusterdreams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,819
Atlanta, GA
This isn’t how this needed to end smh. Nothing is solved. No one gets closure. What he did was wrong and who he preyed on had every right to come forward, but he didn’t have to die.
 
Dec 11, 2018
2,368
I really wish there was a better way to handle these situations and allegations then letting lose the hounds of the internet to rip peoples life apart.

I dont blame people coming forward with honest accusations.

its been a hell of a year for the bloody cycle of internet bullshit.


Fuck man. Im just a person on the internet. Im not gonna solve how to handle sexual abuse accusations and the internet mob mentality.
Exactly. The problem isn't the accusers. It's the army of idiots on the internet who can't do something as simple as just offer support to the person who says they were a victim. The accuser wants to be believed, and that's an easy thing to offer, but for many people reading the accusations, it doesn't stop there. They take it upon themselves to stalk and harass people who may or may not be guilty without holding a shred of evidence. You don't need evidence to believe a victim. You sure as hell need evidence before you call for blood.
 

Just_a_Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,922
Again, I'm not saying anyone online is to blame for his death. They aren't. All I'm saying is that going around telling alleged abusers to "go fuck themselves" or calling them "monsters" isn't the most productive way to spend your time and energy in situations like this, quite the opposite. Like I've explained previously:
His death does not make his acts less monstrous.
 

labx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,192
Medellín, Colombia
. They say that suicide is the cowards way out but this one feels especally cowardly.
Using suicide as a weapon to stop victims from speaking up is some straight up bullshit that's been used by abusers forever.
As someone who had experience suicide in personal life and in a professional way, please stop. I've work years now in suicide prevention, crisis and intervention. You are way off.
 

Zefah

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,797
okay, what exactly are you suggesting Zoe Quinn or the other victims or the other two-thirds of Infinite Fall should have done instead, keeping in mind that none of them wanted this outcome? I don't see how "you should watch what you say out of concern for abusers' well-being" leads anywhere except encouraging victims to be silent
There you go again assuming that I'm saying Zoe Quinn (the accuser and alleged victim here) should have done anything else. I'm not. This isn't on her for calling out her abuser. I'm talking about the hate mob on Twitter and elsewhere that forms in the hundreds, the thousands, or even the tens of thousands to turn on the accused and use their collective resources and power to do whatever they can to make that person's life hard. It's mob justice.
 

Zacmortar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,594
Cant wait for the faux saint shitheads to pretend he didnt do any of this and use his death to absolve him just like they do everytime a shithead polititian bites it.

No sympathy for abusers.
 

DarknessTear

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,299
Fuck. This breaks my heart. I feel for Alec, his family and Zoe. Zoe has a bunch of shit ahead of her now, because people are going to go in on her for this. I hope people come to her aid during this.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,325
It just goes to show how wholly lacking this system is. Nobody needed to die here. Nobody needed to receive this abuse in the first place. But there was no reasonable alternative for a lot of this. There was no system in place.

We're on our own. We're all on our own.
 

King Tubby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
584
You missed the part where they blamed an internet hate mob for a suicide.
That's because it was probably a major factor. There is no excuse for what this man did to people and the suffering he inflicted on them, and he deserved an appropriate level of retribution which it seems he had largely avoided. The fact remains that you have someone with a history of mental illness seeing a torch taken to their reputation, career, relationships both personal and professional, and thousands of strangers hurling invective (justified or otherwise) at them, all in a rather short period of time. I'm surprised this sort of thing doesn't happen more often.
 

nemoral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,071
Fiddler's Green
How do you face the future when everybody is screaming to cut ties, and fire you though ?
The same way thousands of people convicted of crimes who go to prison do. Holowka isn't the first and won't be the last person turned pariah because they engaged in terrible behavior. Most of these people do not kill themselves. Doing so isn't reasonable or natural or normal, it's an indication of mental illness, from which Holowka suffered. People take much larger losses and continue every day. The tragedy of this is not that Holowka was going to lose his career -- he deserved that for the way he used his position to abuse people -- it's that he didn't understand that there can still be life after disaster, which is almost certainly a function of his mental illness, because that's what depression does to people. It gives them emotional tunnel vision that says the pain of this moment will never end.
 

Quantza

Member
Oct 27, 2017
296
well, keeping this stuff confined to whisper networks clearly hasn't worked, so I dunno what you're suggesting as an alternative

Yes, in an ideal world, there would be effective systems in place where abuse wouldn't have to be dealt with publicly, but in the meantime, telling victims to keep their mouths shut out of concern for the well-being of their abusers does nothing to bring us closer to that world
I did NOT say that victims should "keep their mouths shut out of concern for the well-being of their abusers".

Keeping your mouth shut is NOT equivalent to stating your point differently!
Why are you lying? I literally did not say what you stated.
Talk about what I stated, or don't bother.

More importantly, in the U.S. you need to fix your justice system.
The lack of unions to protect people in any form at work, makes it difficult to get these cases known to the government.
Why do you think they are using social media and other whistleblowing services?

Corporations don't give a **** about abuse (and discrimination) if it doesn't relate to PR.
Individuals within the business most probably do, but as a corporate front, nope.
 

f2bnp

Member
Mar 16, 2019
17
This is awful. May he and his family find peace. I also hope that those who came forward with their stories do not blame themselves over this.
If anyone reading this is even slightly considering suicide, please know that there are always people who will love you and you can always reach out for help.
 

MGPanda

Member
Feb 25, 2018
653
I'm starting to be fucking done with this forum. The way that some people are speaking about that kid is the same way people spoke about Etika hours before the police found his body. I constantly see people acting like they're comprehensive and emphatic with mental issues, but whenever something happens for real they're the first to post smug responses like "it's the coward's way out" or "he shouldn't have acted this way in the first place". Seriously, what the fuck? Have you ever had contact with someone with a mental disability? Have you even fucking bothered to read his sister's explanation?

Some of you are absolutely disgusting. Get off your fucking high horse, a person with mental issues just commited suicide and you're acting like he was a nazi. He did a terrible thing and there's nothing we can do about it, but acting like his death is a relief? Come the fuck on. I bet you all that if Zoe Quinn read some of the stuff in here, she would be nautious by the awful mentality of some. I hope the mods do something about it, I don't really care if I get banned myself for being this violent.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,325
I did NOT say that victims should "keep their mouths shut out of concern for the well-being of their abusers".

Keeping your mouth shut is NOT equivalent to stating your point differently!
Why are you lying? I literally did not say what you stated.
Talk about what I stated, or don't bother.
What alternative could she have taken in that situation?
 

Lant_War

The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
9,945
I mean how do you work towards forgiveness if the response is for everyone to immediately get the guy fired, or cut ties with him asap. Without letting the guy explain himself, and not even trying to listen to him. Equally though if you try this, or I tried this we'll get called centrists, or we allow the abusers to get away so your above posts is just a catch 22 when you give it a thought.



The Quartering is already making a video against Quinn, stated so on Twitter.
Do you really think the studio didn't have a talk with him?
 
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