Rape victims are often mistreated by the police, and a lawsuit doesn't necessarily ends with a properly conducted investigation or a guilty verdict.
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Alec Holowka (Night in the Woods, TowerFall) accused of sexual assault [Update: Alec Holowka has reportedly passed away] [See staff posts/threadmarks]
- Thread starter TacomaSCDisaster
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I think the difference is he would be surrounded by professionals and would have gone through due process instead of the court of public opinion.
While true, it's better than no investigation at all. Victims need to be encouraged to go to the authorities at the time that it happens so that due process can be taken and methods can continue to improve. It also assists with statistical data for research.
I honestly didn't know that this was a well documented trend and I never thought too hard about why I literally cry every time I think about how powerless I am in my life as I've always tried to lock away what happened to me, but this suddenly clicked so much in my head, and just fuck. I'll never abuse others, but that suddenly makes some things in my life a lot clearer and I wish I had known this earlier
This is tragic in every way.
Some of the responses around here haven't been great either...
The man seems to have hurt a lot of people, and the victims have a right to speak out, but that doesn't mean he deserves to die, especially considering his mental health.
This is too fucking much.
Some of the responses around here haven't been great either...
The man seems to have hurt a lot of people, and the victims have a right to speak out, but that doesn't mean he deserves to die, especially considering his mental health.
This is too fucking much.
I'm not sure what you're objecting to about my post. He absolutely deserved to be thrown out of the industry for what he did.
At the very least, it's time for a discussion about the value of social media services that pay lip service to the idea of moderated discussion but absolutely do not in any way actually step up when it's necessary for them to do so. Twitter and Facebook are both especially bad about this.
Hopefully the people "Done" with this forum don't resort to going to other places that treat this forum like it's just a Purity Test Palace. This situation is extremely unfortunate and there is a vocal minority that seems to only see things as either "Good" or "Evil" rather than take into account context, circumstances, etc. The majority of interactions I've had here have had level headed individuals trying to learn and understand situations rather than it turning into a free for all.
User Banned (A week): Inflammatory commentary suggesting a suicide as manipulative behavior.
I internalized your post as saying that we should not discuss accusations, which is happened, meant someone would drop their accusation and that would be it. No effects no ripples no dissemination. Its bad.
Also an extremely bad take because might as well just shut down Reset Era because welp the gamergate chuds are just always going to do that. Maybe we should have people who moderate discussions? (Oright we do)
Going to highlight a really fucking bad phrase in this paragraph. There's a reason why Zoe used her twitter to make the post and that was to make it public information that Alec, an indie developer with a good reputation, abused her. So that anyone who dealt with him also knew what he had done in the past because that shit is reprehensible and should not be tolerated in any fair society.
This shit bums me out too and disgusts me. His death (And I'm assuming suicide) reeks of a manipulative behavior that I can't quite put into words right now. Alec has permanently altered the course of the #MeToo resurgence happening in games media and caused even more irreparable harm and damage to victims.
It fucking sucks man.
If you can't discuss these types of topics on Era, where on the internet can people point me to that would facilitate better discussion? I'm serious. For all the people saying this isn't the place to discuss these things, where is?
The kind of person who is waiting to see all the proof will never be satisfied. You could have full color video with sound and then the conversation would just move to "well why was it filmed" or "why did she take so long to come forward". They don't consider anything enough proof. It's a tool to stifle conversation.
I mean it still would have been put into the court of public opinion. The justice system is open to the public so we would have known he was charged and there would have been articles. Also he would have probably been free to roam around while on bail.
But like I posted earlier the court of public opinion many times is the only way to protect future victims from their abusers.
The speed at which you throw out generalizations to try and support your weak argument is irresponsible. There are bad, harmful replies to serious issues. That's why we have moderators. To try and shut down discussion and paint this black and white image in order to support it - this is poison.
Maybe you should step off your soap box and cope for a bit. As you said, this situation has upset you. I'm not convinced you're currently in a position to be arbiter of justice and right.
The conversation should be more focused around the victim I agree.
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What is due process exactly going to do in this situation specifically?
His sister... kind of alluded to him committing these crimes.
So he's guilty of imprisonment/kidnapping, assault, and sexual assault/rape and gets 10-20 years in the reporting to the police route.
Does this go any better for him.
User Banned (permanent): troll account
This is the second thread in recent memory on this forum with pages of people calling someone a "piece of shit" and then days later that "piece of shit" commits suicide.
Stop acting surprised when people kill themselves after being told they're an irredeemable piece of shit.
Stop acting surprised when people kill themselves after being told they're an irredeemable piece of shit.
What he did was bad. Really bad. Get out of here with this.
So he killed himself as a final act of divine revenge?
Come on dude, lets climb down from this tree you're going up.
The thing is, should people be able to be fired at all for anything in any context?
Because I'm guessing getting fired from his job for committing crimes is more relevant.
Or people not wanting to be friends with him moving forward.
Yeah, I really hate that people use @ to shove all their bile directly into others' faces like that, with the added brigading multiplying effect.
I'm comfortable discussing my bad takes on the sidelines, out of the way, but regardless of the issue, I generally don't like the paradigm of having n people who can directly submerge one person with all their ire.
Era didn't kill these people. People on Era posting about these people didn't kill these people. This kind of disingenuous "look at who the real monsters are" posting doesn't benefit anyone.
That's not to say the discourse around these kinds of discussions couldn't be tightened up (it absolutely, 100% could), but Era is just a reflection of the way society on the whole reacts to these kinds of stories. We're microcosmic.
Ok I'm just going to call out this kind of thinking. Yes at some point our justice system needs to get better about both convicting and rehabilitating those who commit sexual assault but is the first thought you have learning someone violently raped another is wow i hope he gets the help he needs?
Did the accused admit to the offense?
Did the court of law find the defendent guilty?
I don't know these answers.
This is the Due Process that I am refering to, rather than the court of public opinion.
The Etika thread was really bad.
This thread was largely people feeling bad for Zoe about her getting horribly abused...
This thread was largely people feeling bad for Zoe about her getting horribly abused...
He didn't do it consciously. But it will 100% sure have a ripple effect in all future gaming #metoo outings. Specially as people are treating Zoe like she has blood on her hands.
So then you're just saying that people shouldn't call out sexual abusers?
I'm not sure what you are saying. That the wording of some was extreme?
Edit: never mind.
I really can't put my feelings into words that I feel accurate describe how I'm feeling. I don't believe he did it for that reason but the effects of his death will forever haunt Zoe.
I can't imagine how the fear of going to prison for 10-20 years would be less of a suicide risk.
People are terrified and humiliated by prison. Just because prison is the traditional route doesn't mean it's more kind.
Well I mean, in some ways it should considering how this all went down.
You know there's a big difference in the personal lives of Harvey Weinstein vs some Indie Developer, one is probably going to weather the storm better than the other.
To be clear, not saying that victims shouldn't air their stories, talking about the handling of everything after that moment.
You're already gone, but there's a pretty big fucking difference between ranting into the void and... going onto a mutually shared space and howling terrible things at someone directly with thousands of other incendiary missives.
So after getting help for years the process of being accused caused him to committ suicide but being charged and facing 20 years in prison he would have mentally been completely ok?
Just look at Jeffrey Epstein as a clear example of how the justice system does not protect people from ending their life and he actually was being monitored
Exactly. Maybe giving people the power to scream directly at other people they don't know and would otherwise never have any interaction with, with no consequences, was a bad idea.
And maybe having a laissez-faire libertarian douchebag like Jack Dorsey in control of the company that allows that to happen was an even worse idea.
Extremely sad news all around, I hope his sister as well Zoe can see past all of the stuff they're getting thrown at them and know it wasn't and isn't their fault. While I don't condone what he did at all may he Rest In Peace. Nobody should abused not her not him. What a horrible set of events all around.
I don't get the users who say we should ban discussions on these kind of topics. They're related to the gaming culture and industry so they should be discussed on this forum. On top of that there's an ignore button for thos who don't want to discuss these kind of problems.
Victims should be allowed to make these problems public if there's no other way. The abusers need to face consequences and should be condemned and punished accordingly. However, I don't like attacking people on Twitter and forums and constantly calling them trash. That's what leads to unfortunte events like the things in this thread.
I have faith in the mods to keep discussions on touchy subjects civil.
Victims should be allowed to make these problems public if there's no other way. The abusers need to face consequences and should be condemned and punished accordingly. However, I don't like attacking people on Twitter and forums and constantly calling them trash. That's what leads to unfortunte events like the things in this thread.
I have faith in the mods to keep discussions on touchy subjects civil.
I don't think any one person is to blame. Certainly not the accusers, who were trying to raise awareness of hurtful behavior. Their only hope was that others wouldn't become victims.
But Alec was still human at the end of the day. I don't think the human psyche is cut out to handle the weight of the digital world crashing down on it. (Frankly, I don't think the human psyche is cut out for the internet in general.)
We need to ask ourselves, before adding our voices to the chorus: What tone are we taking? What is our intent? What do we want to happen to the accused?
Do we want the accused to see the error of his ways, and then apologize and make amends? Will we allow redemption?
Or do we want the accused to see the error of his ways — and then suffer forever and ever without end, with no hope of redemption and no route back to society, forever ugly in the eyes in the world, forever a monster?
If the latter, what does it accomplish? Where else does it inevitably lead, other than suicide, or living while dead inside?
Ultimately, though, I don't know what the correct balance is — the sweet spot between firm and fair. But we're going to see more incidents like this if we don't figure it out soon.
But Alec was still human at the end of the day. I don't think the human psyche is cut out to handle the weight of the digital world crashing down on it. (Frankly, I don't think the human psyche is cut out for the internet in general.)
We need to ask ourselves, before adding our voices to the chorus: What tone are we taking? What is our intent? What do we want to happen to the accused?
Do we want the accused to see the error of his ways, and then apologize and make amends? Will we allow redemption?
Or do we want the accused to see the error of his ways — and then suffer forever and ever without end, with no hope of redemption and no route back to society, forever ugly in the eyes in the world, forever a monster?
If the latter, what does it accomplish? Where else does it inevitably lead, other than suicide, or living while dead inside?
Ultimately, though, I don't know what the correct balance is — the sweet spot between firm and fair. But we're going to see more incidents like this if we don't figure it out soon.
I wish I could still be shocked at how fucking terrible humans can be. I really do.
We can "what if" about the situation forever, but the overall point is that the societal methods of handling cases of abuse are there for a reason, and always improving. Victims should always be encouraged to go to the authorities. Always.
The #MeToo era is important as it's inspiring real change and drawing attention to these important topics. Part of that messaging needs to be that any victims should always feel that they are able to go to the authorities.
I don't think we should ban discussion, if someone does something bad we need to know about it.
But going forward, there needs to be guidelines about how these sort of threads take place. And not just staff updates once things go off the rails, like proper rules on discussing accusations agaisnt real people.
Because even if Era isn't responsible for this or isn't the reason he killed hismelf (I assume it isn't as I ain't seen people suggesting to brigade him or stuff) the problem is that we also need to be aware of the wider scope. Every person who does something bad that we discuss is likely getting targeted by hundreds upon hundreds of Twitter users doxxers and death threats, etc. Page after page describing him as a repugnant piece of shit, whether deserving or not, is just sort of adding onto the hate train or encouraging those who take it too far.
If someone does something as scummy as he did we should be allowed to bring attention to it, and they shouldn't get away with it. But the reality is humans can be pushed over the edge easily and none of us want to feel responsible or unwittingly contribute to situations that end up like this.
But going forward, there needs to be guidelines about how these sort of threads take place. And not just staff updates once things go off the rails, like proper rules on discussing accusations agaisnt real people.
Because even if Era isn't responsible for this or isn't the reason he killed hismelf (I assume it isn't as I ain't seen people suggesting to brigade him or stuff) the problem is that we also need to be aware of the wider scope. Every person who does something bad that we discuss is likely getting targeted by hundreds upon hundreds of Twitter users doxxers and death threats, etc. Page after page describing him as a repugnant piece of shit, whether deserving or not, is just sort of adding onto the hate train or encouraging those who take it too far.
If someone does something as scummy as he did we should be allowed to bring attention to it, and they shouldn't get away with it. But the reality is humans can be pushed over the edge easily and none of us want to feel responsible or unwittingly contribute to situations that end up like this.
Yet again, someone kills themselves and the bad faith arguers blame Era because people are discussing a topic.
I didn't know Era had such a way with words.
You would think his colleagues or possibly his wife turning on him would be the catalyst.
I didn't know Era had such a way with words.
You would think his colleagues or possibly his wife turning on him would be the catalyst.
well... i was just playing control and looked at tweetdeck on my second monitor and the news scrolled back. fuck. this is just the worst. what a fucking horrendous mess.
huge sympathies to everyone involved. even to alec. for all the awful stuff he did, this shouldn't have been the end. i cant imagine what his sister and family are going through right now. i can see people on twitter arguing and harassing her in her mentions. human beings are the worst sometimes. also i hope that zoe is doing ok right now. i can only imagine the fucking weight of speaking out about your trauma and this being the outcome. it was entirely right for her to speak about it, but i know if it was me i'd still be feeling awful right now if speaking up led to this. i hope she is safe and well and with friends.
and i 100% think we need to be able to talk in this forum about this kind of stuff. this needs to be an ongoing discourse that we have, in these forums, on twitter, in the industry, with our families and friends. you cannot shy away from shining a light on these things, lest they repeat again and again.
what a dismal day. what a hard week.
huge sympathies to everyone involved. even to alec. for all the awful stuff he did, this shouldn't have been the end. i cant imagine what his sister and family are going through right now. i can see people on twitter arguing and harassing her in her mentions. human beings are the worst sometimes. also i hope that zoe is doing ok right now. i can only imagine the fucking weight of speaking out about your trauma and this being the outcome. it was entirely right for her to speak about it, but i know if it was me i'd still be feeling awful right now if speaking up led to this. i hope she is safe and well and with friends.
and i 100% think we need to be able to talk in this forum about this kind of stuff. this needs to be an ongoing discourse that we have, in these forums, on twitter, in the industry, with our families and friends. you cannot shy away from shining a light on these things, lest they repeat again and again.
what a dismal day. what a hard week.
Yes and no. Going to the authorities generally doesn't do anything on its own. Rape and assault cases are rarely handled well by the justice system.
MeToo is about forcing the entire world to wake up and confront these harsh truths and to force modern society to grow and evolve. It's not just about telling people "it's okay to call the cops".
If needed, it's been screenshotted. It's small but readable. It's very innocuous for her to still be getting shitty troll attacks. :/
But the #MeToo movement exists because society and institutions have fundamentally failed to protect us and give victims justice. The fact that people find it necessary to broadcast this stuff to the entire world, instead of locally going through "proper channels" should tell you everything you need to know.
Yes, I said it needs to be part of the messaging.
Forcing the world to wake up is great, informing people on what to do if they are victimized is also important. Both parts are necessary to improve the judicial system.
More in reference to those saying that he shouldn't have killed himself. I don't know...after Erika, and Alec...I know Erika did it, and I hope Alec did it for the same reason, it was their attempt at penance, at anknowleging the pain and suffering they caused and accepting their responsibility for it in a way that beyond any other way, at least in my opinion meant it was genuine and not simply a attempt to return to society.
Was it misguided? Yeah, all this chaos with his family, friends, and this discourse, he launched it, but I think suicidal people have a difficult time with understanding how the aftermath goes down, but his wish according to his sister, that Zoe not be blamed makes me think it was that wish to accept fault.
MeToo exists in part because going to the authorities very, very often doesn't work.
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