What an awful situation. I don't even know what to say aside from I hope this serves as a (albeit horrific) cautionary tale and everyone involved gets the help they need.
there is functionality to filter threads by thread title on an account level. i haven't used it myself, but you should be able to filter out e.g. threads containing the wordd "abuse", "assault", "accused" if these threads are negatively affecting your mental healthI read some of this earlier and the people saying the want Era to basically focus on just discussing games in a nice, hype focussed way, and not to feature discussions like troubling issues like this...
I'm a little torn. More from a really selfish basis and wanting to preserve my sanity from time to time while still being able to come on this site. Sometimes I just avoid Etcetera because there's so much depressing shit. It's nice to just come back to Gaming and get excited about the future next gen consoles or whatever. However, no, I don't think these kinds of discussions should be curtailed.
If I could choose it, however, I would quite like to be able to filter these sorts of stories out altogether sometimes. Maybe put them under a different sub category of discussions?
I dunno, it's not easy. We can't hide from this stuff, and indeed all sorts of injustices regarding the gaming industry and the people who make or report about the games we play shouldn't be hidden. I'm just asking for maybe some filtering of some sort.
👏👏👏It's a pretty massive contradiction that people think we should talk less about abuse and that the victims should be more silent when the abuser was a former victim himself who, if he had been free to be more open and talk about it earlier on in his life, might have got the help he needed to not turn into an abuser and eventually take his own life as a result.
But silence is the answer, sure. Just let the courts handle it somehow. It's better if we don't actually figure out how to deal with these issues as a culture, because it's not our place, and victims should know that nobody wants to hear about it unless it's in a courtroom.
I don't think it's a coincidence that he killed himself after these accusations resulted in the loss of his job and status. A more reasonable form of justice permits a person to respond to the allegations before facing consequences for them.
I don't get why these people dont talk to the police but instead to twitter followers. Someone said that we should not talk about game devs personal lifes but it's real hard when they wrote these kind of stuff to twitter.
They say that suicide is the cowards way out but this one feels especally cowardly
Ahh didn't realise you could do that, thought it was just hiding threads that you've already seen. It's not that bad, I just need to get off the internet and stop checking news all the time anyway.there is functionality to filter threads by thread title on an account level. i haven't used it myself, but you should be able to filter out e.g. threads containing the wordd "abuse", "assault", "accused" if these threads are negatively affecting your mental health
Sorry to bother, but I can't find those statement/tweet, any help?Given that his sister's statement suggests (more than once) that she believes his accuser
I think Alec's sister locked her account so I don't think we can view her statement right now unless someone screencapped it.Sorry to bother, but I can't find those statement/tweet, any help?
Sorry to bother, but I can't find those statement/tweet, any help?
"Those who know me will know that I believe survivors and I have always done everything I can to support survivors, those suffering from mental illnesses, and those with chronic illnesses. Alec was a victim of abuse and he also spent a lifetime battling mood and personality disorders. I will not pretend that he was not also responsible for causing harm, but deep down he was a person who wanted only to offer people care and kindness. It took him a while to figure out how."
Sorry to bother, but I can't find those statement/tweet, any help?
Those who know me will know that I believe survivors and I have always done everything I can to support survivors, those suffering from mental illnesses, and those with chronic illnesses.
i'm shocked this seems so out of characterIf you look at the NeoGAF thread when the allegations started, Tyler Malka (EviLore), was literally one of the first to chime in with a totally insensitive remark that made it clear that it was ok to pile hateful messages her way.
Speaking as an individual user here and not as a mod--I read some of this earlier and the people saying the want Era to basically focus on just discussing games in a nice, hype focussed way, and not to feature discussions like troubling issues like this...
I'm a little torn. More from a really selfish basis and wanting to preserve my sanity from time to time while still being able to come on this site. Sometimes I just avoid Etcetera because there's so much depressing shit. It's nice to just come back to Gaming and get excited about the future next gen consoles or whatever. However, no, I don't think these kinds of discussions should be curtailed.
If I could choose it, however, I would quite like to be able to filter these sorts of stories out altogether sometimes. Maybe put them under a different sub category of discussions?
I dunno, it's not easy. We can't hide from this stuff, and indeed all sorts of injustices regarding the gaming industry and the people who make or report about the games we play shouldn't be hidden. I'm just asking for maybe some filtering of some sort.
I don't understand all the people invoking "mob mentality" in this thread.
Is there evidence that Alec was being harassed, or that public backlash on social media had a role of prominence in his tragic suicide at all? Did places like Resetera lead the public discussion being had where people who once feared Alec felt emboldened to come together and reveal how much he hurt them, or force the industry to reckon with his abusive tendencies, or cause previous connections of his to cut ties with him?
Also, even to the extent that people responded to stories like Zoe's with shock and disgust, was it really "mob mentality" that drove those responses?
Rushing to blame "the mob" in this situation seems off-base on multiple levels. This was a tragic ending to a moment that seemed hopeful just a little bit ago: people who had felt forced into silence finally speaking out, showing solidarity with one another, pushing the industry toward much needed change. Distributing blame in the face of suicide is almost always problematic, and it seems to me that's even more true than usual this time around. Some tragedies just aren't conducive to simple solutions. It turns out that when you layer abuse on top of abuse on top of abuse, it's very difficult to maneuver around it all without hurting someone.
Sorry to bother, but I can't find those statement/tweet, any help?
Watching people go out of their way to continue to slander a dude who spent a year very obviously deteriorating from mental illness before taking his own life is aggressively unpleasant.
I reject the idea that a lack of empathy or understanding is a default state of being. As a queer woman who also suffers from mental illness, I'm personally capable of nuance, and it's actually not that hard to pull off.
You just admitted to not giving a shit about someones suicide if they called you something offensive a few days prior, even if they were evidently severely troubled to where they were not acting like how they used to. Id say you have a lot of growing to do and should probably start with not referring to suicide as "doing the deed"
You do realize that most victims of abuse don't advocate for the deaths or torture or whatever of abusers, right? That most people who have experienced this, while they do have anger about what has happened to them, most of them just want further suffering to end. You aren't on the side of victims when you post shit like what you've been posting. Sensitivity and understanding are the bare fucking miminimum when it comes to approaching situations like this.
And stop fucking hiding mental illness. Do you know how insulting that is? He's not an invalid. He knew what he did was wrong. What if someone did the same to you like he did to Zoe? Would you really like it if defenders said "mental illness. don't be mad at him lulz"
And now I await the same people calling for sensitivity to call me a heartless, angry shrill without seeing a hint of irony of hypocrisy.
Anyway. I don't believe that a person calling out their abuser should be held responsible for the actions of their abuser. They already dealt with enough.
Not perfect, but I think this is the best screencap posted so far. There was a follow-up I think, but I haven't seen a screenshot yet.
Sadly, she was being harassed after posting (someone earlier ITT claimed they saw her being accused of "being on it with Zoe" and called a traitor) so she locked her account.
Why is everyone misrepresenting what I'm trying to say? I knew this was fucking coming.
You are correct a victim is not responsible for the actions of their abuser. However, I'm not sure I agree with naming and shaming someone on Twitter being the correct course of action. It should be done via the authorities who will take action.
Interestingly enough there has been a recent debate in the UK around whether or not "abusers" should be named on the basis of accusation alone. Especially in the light of trial by social media.
It's a tough call really as we want/need victims to come forward, but we need to protect those from false accusations.
And for the record, guys. Our anger at Etika and Alec didn't kill them. They didn't die by our hands. We did not push them over the edge. It's not our fault. We can feel bad about their deathswithout feeling guilty.
For what little it's worth, I don't really understand why people jumped down your throat either.
No one called you a heartless monster. They asked you to stop shitting on Etika for things that were a very obvious indication of deteriorating mental illness, illness that eventually led him to take his own life. Etika isn't even remotely related to the subject of this thread anyway, and while I know you didn't bring him up, you did continue to badmouth him after he was brought up...for reasons I can't exactly tell. No one is saying they are better than you either. I don't think I'm better than you, I just find your posts in this thread to be lacking any sort of nuance or perspective. I'm sorry you struggle with mental illness; I do as well, and was sexually abused as a minor. My words come from that place, and yes I think empathy and understanding are necessary in situations like this. I just see your posts here as enflaming tensions for no good reason.Where the fuck did I advocate for torture or death? I'm trying to say that the abused don't have any obligation to sympathize their abuser if said abuser kill themselves.
Why is everyone misrepresenting what I'm trying to say? I knew this was fucking coming.
And for the record, guys. Our anger at Etika and Alec didn't kill them. They didn't die by our hands. We did not push them over the edge. It's not our fault. We can feel bad about their deathswithout feeling guilty.
Ironically, you're not any better than me. But at least I'm not hiding behind some false sense of civility.
I have mental illness. You don't see me being emotionally abusive to my significant other. stupel, you mean to tell me that your mental illness made you have hate filled twitter posts? lvl 99 Pixel, just answer my question. It should be clear that I wouldn't be upset if you said you wouldn't care if I died if I treated you like garbage.
But hey guys, thanks for not even following your own call for fucking sensitivity. Thanks for implying that I'm a heartless monster too. Way to live up to the call for understanding.
THANKS FOR FUCKING NOTHING!
Nah. The line is perfectly drawn at "don't sexually abuse anyone." There is no scenario that calls for a victim to stay silent against their will or to not receive support after speaking openly. Focus on decreasing the amount of abuse out there if you don't like to see situations like this.Another example why these sorts of news should be banned in a forum where people know fuck nothing about devs lives.
For what little it's worth, I don't really understand why people jumped down your throat either.
Also where's the line to be drawn?
People said that Alec was also sexually abused. Would we have to tiptoe around his abuser as well because he MIGHT be mentally unwell? Would there be calls to silence an abused male like there is right with Zoe?
Jermery Epstein also killed himself. Is he off limits now?
People were mainly taking issue with what you were saying about Etika...which really has no place in this thread to begin with. It's not about things being 'off limits' so much as it is treating serious and complex situations with the respect they deserve. Also none of the people asking you to stop shitting on Etika in this thread are saying victims should stay silent. It's actually the opposite; the more victims are heard, the better.Also where's the line to be drawn?
People said that Alec was also sexually abused. Would we have to tiptoe around his abuser as well because he MIGHT be mentally unwell? Would there be calls to silence an abused male like there is right with Zoe?
Jermery Epstein also killed himself. Is he off limits now?
Amen.It's super tiring seeing people spew weird narratives not based on any semblance of reality.
Everything about this situation is obviously messed up. But there seems to be a huge lack of self awareness from all the people who were tweeting at both Alec's sister and Zoe. Literally doing the exact thing they were claiming is Zoe's fault after she brought things to light. Let's not pretend like the people hating on Zoe currently weren't already hating on Zoe previously.
All you have to do was just search her name on twitter and you'd see the crazy abusive stuff constantly thrown her way. If you look at the NeoGAF thread when the allegations started, Tyler Malka (EviLore), was literally one of the first to chime in with a totally insensitive remark that made it clear that it was ok to pile hateful messages her way.
If people actually cared about what could possibly happen with a mob mentality then they wouldn't actually do that stuff when it plays into the arguments they want to make. This isn't even getting into all the weird conspiracy stuff I've seen. You see this same crap when it comes to review bombs too. Or people getting upset that a game is adding more options to a character creator. It's ok for them to mob up if it suits their tastes. Maybe take a step back and realize that you're literally the problem that you're complaining about before trying to blame others?
Anyway. I don't believe that a person calling out their abuser should be held responsible for the actions of their abuser. They already dealt with enough. Also, anyone with any sort of empathy would feel terrible about this outcome. Have you seen the crap people were saying to her before the account was deleted? Imagine your notifications being filled with comments saying you killed someone. That shit is not cool.