All Elite Wrestling announced; bankrolled by Tony Khan, son of Jacksonville Jaguars and Fullham FC owner Shahid Khan

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,286
WWE is here to stay regardless of AEW being a success. But let's assume that AEW gains mainstream ubiquity, how does that affect a WWE that isn't facing the same challenges that it did when it was fighting for its survival in the mid 1990's?

Would you say that HHH and Stephanie are aware of this or are they either too insulated to care or do they recognize their current rout but are constrained by Vince McMahon's stubborn direction?

I remember Mick Foley mentioned in his first book that Vince had an epiphany that allowed people like HHH, Bob Holly, Billy Gunn and others to shed their lame pre-Attitude Era gimmicks and repackage themselves.

What existential threat does a successful AEW pose for WWE even if they're not directly taking jabs at them on the air like Eric Bischoff did?

And do you expect any "Billionaire Tony" skits in the next few years?
AEW becomes a threat to WWE by simply existing and being successful at anything beyond TNA levels. It's got a big bankroll behind it and a major network supporting it.

I still don't fully believe WWE is here to stay and if AEW wants to someday succeed or "beat" WWE they simply need to weather the storm and let WWE burn itself out, kind of similarly to how WCW burnt itself out
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,514
WWE is here to stay regardless of AEW being a success. But let's assume that AEW gains mainstream ubiquity, how does that affect a WWE that isn't facing the same challenges that it did when it was fighting for its survival in the mid 1990's?

Would you say that HHH and Stephanie are aware of this or are they either too insulated to care or do they recognize their current rout but are constrained by Vince McMahon's stubborn direction?

I remember Mick Foley mentioned in his first book that Vince had an epiphany that allowed people like HHH, Bob Holly, Billy Gunn and others to shed their lame pre-Attitude Era gimmicks and repackage themselves.

What existential threat does a successful AEW pose for WWE even if they're not directly taking jabs at them on the air like Eric Bischoff did?

And do you expect any "Billionaire Tony" skits in the next few years?
HHH and Steph are contributing to the current WWE. They want that corporate sponsorship money train just as much as Vince
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,828

Janela promo in front of a casket
Yuka Sakazaki vs Riho vs Nyla Rose
Shawn Spears promo. He's signed
Darby Allin promo
Oh man, they just made me feel invested in Darby Allin with ONE pre-recorded promo.

I still think Janela’s look is way too cheesy 90s and his promos aren’t totally believable yet. Sounds like he’s acting instead of speaking genuine emotions.

Joshi! Very psyched to see all of them. I wish they had done some subtitled videos of the women instead of using Brandi like Stephanie to talk for them and about them.
 

Crackhead_Bob

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,245
AEW becomes a threat to WWE by simply existing and being successful at anything beyond TNA levels. It's got a big bankroll behind it and a major network supporting it.

I still don't fully believe WWE is here to stay and if AEW wants to someday succeed or "beat" WWE they simply need to weather the storm and let WWE burn itself out, kind of similarly to how WCW burnt itself out
I don't see WWE imploding on the level of WCW in 2000-2001. Even if they were dropped by USA, they would rely on their streaming network to pull them through.

My biggest hope with AEW is that the company forces WWE to adapt; to make their product exciting to tune into. They have the talent pool. I can't see why they can't capitalize on the assets they already have in place.

PG WWE sucks, but scripted WWE sucks even more. The Hogan era was PG rated, but at least it was entertaining and wasn't oversaturated with monthly pay-per-views. I hear that AEW is aiming for 4-5 pay-per-views a year. Maybe WWE should cut back to 6 pay-per-views a year. Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Elimination Chamber, Summer Slam and War Games. Right now, WWE's pay-per-views seem bland with the exception of Mania and Rumble, and I would argue that Rumble has more entertainment value for casual viewers than Mania does at this point.

As much as we all gripe about the current WWE product, is that not the case in general given how ubiquitous they are in the mainstream? Whenever co-workers discuss prowrestling, I've tried to bring AEW into the discussion and I get nothing but blank stares. One dude is still under the impression that Chris Jericho and Dean Ambrose are still working for WWE. And they don't seem to take notice of the scripted promo format they use. It's kind of disheartening.

Keeping RAW TV-PG has always been about keeping sponsorships, but at what point could this become potentially untenable for the company? I'm not a business major, so I don't know all the inner workings of WWE's business model? But I recall when WWE kicked off their attitude campaign that it happened pretty quickly post Wrestlemania 13.

So assuming that WWE stays the same, uses the scripted promos, overmanufactured commentators, keeps the PG rated storylines, ect, what are the long term ramifications in the face of AEW if they stay true to delivering a more sincere, cutting edge alternative? One that showcases the athleticism of their talent and allows for more mature, contemporary storylines? Not on the level of Vince Russo or even the Attitude Era, but storylines that are logical, engaging, and relatable to the fans? I'd like to see a return of a thriving tag team division and heel managers. But I'm also eager to see what their supercards will entail? Should they have overarching gimmicks like Royal Rumble and War Games? Or should they be regular 9 match events like a Summerslam or Great American Bash?
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,514
So assuming that WWE stays the same, uses the scripted promos, overmanufactured commentators, keeps the PG rated storylines, ect, what are the long term ramifications in the face of AEW if they stay true to delivering a more sincere, cutting edge alternative? One that showcases the athleticism of their talent and allows for more mature, contemporary storylines? Not on the level of Vince Russo or even the Attitude Era, but storylines that are logical, engaging, and relatable to the fans? I'd like to see a return of a thriving tag team division and heel managers. But I'm also eager to see what their supercards will entail? Should they have overarching gimmicks like Royal Rumble and War Games? Or should they be regular 9 match events like a Summerslam or Great American Bash?
One thing to keep in mind is during the AE there were logical story lines in that they had actual story telling, but a lot of them were pure trash in terms of context. They got by entirely on break neck pace so you were forced to tune in because anything could happen. Additionally, people keep saying "PG story" but there is nothing wrong with this. You can tell perfectly fine stories with PG (also bear in mind PG in 2019 is not PG from 1995), the issue is the complete sterilness in the delivery of the story. Every single aspect of the shows are scripted and needed to hit their marks. The way that commentators can so quickly go from "OMG THAT MOVE...and we'll be right back" is proof in point of this. Combine this with the sheer volume of content hours and it's so clear why the product is suffering worse than it ever has (New Gen hates be damned, that period is great).

It remains to be seen what AEW can do with weekly TV and their PPV schedule, but if they're allowing some creative flexibility in how wrestlers present their story and keeping show hours to a much smaller minimum than I think it's safe to say it's going to be on a good footing.
 

Crackhead_Bob

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,245
One thing to keep in mind is during the AE there were logical story lines in that they had actual story telling, but a lot of them were pure trash in terms of context. They got by entirely on break neck pace so you were forced to tune in because anything could happen. Additionally, people keep saying "PG story" but there is nothing wrong with this. You can tell perfectly fine stories with PG (also bear in mind PG in 2019 is not PG from 1995), the issue is the complete sterilness in the delivery of the story. Every single aspect of the shows are scripted and needed to hit their marks. The way that commentators can so quickly go from "OMG THAT MOVE...and we'll be right back" is proof in point of this. Combine this with the sheer volume of content hours and it's so clear why the product is suffering worse than it ever has (New Gen hates be damned, that period is great).

It remains to be seen what AEW can do with weekly TV and their PPV schedule, but if they're allowing some creative flexibility in how wrestlers present their story and keeping show hours to a much smaller minimum than I think it's safe to say it's going to be on a good footing.
IF AEW is proven to have a successful formula in the next 18 months, do you see HHH or Stephanie being more tenable to change? Would the change come from them or a possible migration of their talent to AEW, NJPW, ROH, and others? Or do you simply see WWE staying the course for whatever reason? I have to imagine that HHH would never want to have had to contend with these sorts of limitations had he never married into the McMahon family. Can you imagine him being saddled with the Greenwich snob gimmick but on top of that being scripted to deliver his promos?

But above and beyond that, I would hope that he's thinking long term enough to realize that their current formula is a dead end for their talent, tv sponsors notwithstanding.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,514
IF AEW is proven to have a successful formula in the next 18 months, do you see HHH or Stephanie being more tenable to change? Would the change come from them or a possible migration of their talent to AEW, NJPW, ROH, and others? Or do you simply see WWE staying the course for whatever reason? I have to imagine that HHH would never want to have had to contend with these sorts of limitations had he never married into the McMahon family. Can you imagine him being saddled with the Greenwich snob gimmick but on top of that being scripted to deliver his promos?

But above and beyond that, I would hope that he's thinking long term enough to realize that their current formula is a dead end for their talent, tv sponsors notwithstanding.
In the interview with Jericho, Dean brought up how Hunter nixed a spot because "they'd lose a 10 million dollar sponsor" so to me that's a signal he only cares about keeping up the corporate spiel. Additionally, the booking in NXT is pretty bad right now and that's "Hunters baby" so to speak so I don't think he's particulary the genius some think. He's just got some of the best talent in the world down there helping to cover up the bad booking & story telling.

I also just don't buy into the whole idea that HHH is some how the bright light in this when given his history in the company from the Cliq to his reign & burials to now. He's for the most part always been in the upper hand of things.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,938
Terana
It's like the college basketball or football coach that continually gets a new wave of 5 star recruits every year to work with. You may succeed there, but it's different running in the big leagues.

Consider that there's way more TV and PPVs every month and you're juggling a bunch of established stars that you have to somehow keep fresh.

Maybe the matches don't become so formulaic? But I think even NXT is hitting that threshold too where you've seen the same thing (finisher spam, inconsistent selling, all the 2.9 kickouts) so many times now that it's boring. And the rest of the problems still remain.
 

Static Shock

Coward
Oct 27, 2017
2,993
Jax, FL
WWE has enough money from the Saudis and Fox/NBC to last a few more decades, they’re not going anywhere
yup. That's the major difference between late WCW and WWE. WWE is making more money than any wrestling promotion in history while WCW was losing more money than any promotion in history. WWE's main source of income is the TV Rights, and until that dries up (which I don't see happening since TV networks are panicking) they are going to be in great shape even with failing ratings.
 

RBH

Official ERA expert on Third Party Football
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,687
From the Observer:


The Buy In show on ITV 4, the Double or Nothing pre-show, did 74,000 viewers, which for a Saturday night at midnight would be a good number, but not a great number. For comparison, for numbers the next week in the U.K., Raw did 42,500 viewers, Smackdown did 63,000, and MLW did 24,900. Impact did 14,900 on UK Fight Night on Showcase, but their largest audience would come on 5USA and we don’t have that figure
There was a question regarding Jericho’s entrance music, “Judas,” not playing on the streaming replay [of NJPW Dominion] when it had in all of his previous matches with the company. What happened was, unbeknownst to Jericho, Sony had contacted New Japan and wanted a $2,500 rights fee for usage of the music. New Japan turned it down and instead put over a cover song. Jericho said that if he would have known about it, he’d have paid the $2,500 himself.