All Elite Wrestling announced; bankrolled by Tony Khan, son of Jacksonville Jaguars and Fullham FC owner Shahid Khan

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
152
This is why every single promotion that ever tried to do shooty w/l record stuff eventually abandoned it. It just doesn't really work with a traditional wrestling promotion. It hamstrings you too much from a booking perspective. There are plenty of ways to make wins/losses matter without treating them like gospel.
I think in this case it’s kind of besides the wins and losses point. They booked themselves into a corner with big advertised championship matches on the 10/16 show when they have a PPV a few weeks later. Even moreso with the tag titles, which are being crowned at the conclusion of a tournament a little more than a week before the PPV. Unless they just aren’t planning to have a tag title match at Full Gear, how are they supposed to come up with a number one contender that quickly? Whoever else either just lost in the tag tournament sooner than the runners ups, or weren’t in the tournament to begin with. I don’t think tracking W/L record is the issue, they just seemed to have timed everything poorly.
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,352
I think in this case it’s kind of besides the wins and losses point. They booked themselves into a corner with big advertised championship matches on the 10/16 show when they have a PPV a few weeks later. Even moreso with the tag titles, which are being crowned at the conclusion of a tournament a little more than a week before the PPV. Unless they just aren’t planning to have a tag title match at Full Gear, how are they supposed to come up with a number one contender that quickly? Whoever else either just lost in the tag tournament sooner than the runners ups, or weren’t in the tournament to begin with. I don’t think tracking W/L record is the issue, they just seemed to have timed everything poorly.
Let's see how things go heading into Full Gear. There are still plenty of unknowns between now and November. We don't know what they'll do on TV. Who knows? They might address these things between now and then.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
152
Yeah. Like I said, I'm sure they have a plan. Just from the surface it seems there would have been some easier paths to take.
 

Infernostew

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,394
New Jersey
I think people are obsessing with the W/L stuff a bit too much. Even in combat sports it’s possible to be the #1 contender and have a title bout coming off a loss to a guy who just lost to the champ. I think they just wanted to get across that guys are not getting shots for feuding with the champ when they can’t back up their worthiness. They want these title bouts to make sense.
 

Proteus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,663
Toronto
I think people are obsessing with the W/L stuff a bit too much. Even in combat sports it’s possible to be the #1 contender and have a title bout coming off a loss to a guy who just lost to the champ. I think they just wanted to get across that guys are not getting shots for feuding with the champ when they can’t back up their worthiness. They want these title bouts to make sense.
This is pretty much it.
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,352
I think people are obsessing with the W/L stuff a bit too much. Even in combat sports it’s possible to be the #1 contender and have a title bout coming off a loss to a guy who just lost to the champ. I think they just wanted to get across that guys are not getting shots for feuding with the champ when they can’t back up their worthiness. They want these title bouts to make sense.
As long as someone like Jungle Boy isn't getting a title shot in week 2 just because, I think we're okay.
 

Proteus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,663
Toronto
As long as someone like Jungle Boy isn't getting a title shot in week 2 just because, I think we're okay.
If it prevents some random tag team from getting a shot at the titles the same night that they formed I think I would be happy with that. I hate that shit. A newly formed tag team should start at the bottom and work their way up. They should prove that they deserve it.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
152
I think people are obsessing with the W/L stuff a bit too much. Even in combat sports it’s possible to be the #1 contender and have a title bout coming off a loss to a guy who just lost to the champ. I think they just wanted to get across that guys are not getting shots for feuding with the champ when they can’t back up their worthiness. They want these title bouts to make sense.
I'm not sure I recall seeing much of what you're describing in UFC for instance- somebody losing a fight and following that up with a title shot. I guess unless they are an emergency fill-in or something like that.

I guess one thing that helps out their decision making in the early going, specifically for that 10/16 match, is that it's really about who is most worthy based on record compared to everyone else. So somebody like Kip Sabian, let's say they put him on the TV debut and give him a win, that puts him at 2-1 and gives him as much a right to a title shot as anybody else in the early going. Which as I think about it, I bet that's the kind of direction they go in to have a "filler" title match that serves the purpose of giving Jericho a successful title defense, while also trying to give somebody else the rub even in losing.

If it prevents some random tag team from getting a shot at the titles the same night that they formed I think I would be happy with that. I hate that shit. A newly formed tag team should start at the bottom and work their way up. They should prove that they deserve it.
Totally agree. At the end of the day, putting the minutiae aside, if they broadly stick to the concept that wins and losses matter, it's going to disqualify a bunch of the shitty booking conventions that have overtaken modern WWE.
 

Var

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
544
I'm not sure I recall seeing much of what you're describing in UFC for instance- somebody losing a fight and following that up with a title shot. I guess unless they are an emergency fill-in or something like that.
Not exactly the same but Randy Couture had two straight losses before dropping down to LHW and beating Chuck Liddell for the interm championship. Can't think of another instance.

Edit: Boxing it happened also with Hopkins dropping two to Jermain Taylor and then moving up to beat Tarver for the IBO LHW title.
 
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Infernostew

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,394
New Jersey
I'm not sure I recall seeing much of what you're describing in UFC for instance- somebody losing a fight and following that up with a title shot. I guess unless they are an emergency fill-in or something like that.
Happened with Frankie Edgar. Lost a title match against Benson Henderson and then fought against Aldo next in a title fight although it was in a different weight class.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
152
As I think about it more, the three guys I come up with that seem plausible to be Jericho's contender on 10/16 are Kip Sabian, Jimmy Havoc, and CIMA. A win for any of them puts them at 2-1 and by record would give them as much a right as anyone as a #1 contender in the early period. That could particularly be a good spotlight for either Sabian or Havoc.

Maybe not in two weeks but Jungle Boy needs to be a serious competitor sooner than later, hopefully within a year.
They should feature him but I'd caution on too much too soon. He is really young and really green and I think he'd get exposed pretty quickly right now. I think the Jurassic Express is a good spot for him because they can use him in more limited situations in tag and trios matches while he continues to learn and bulk up.

The more I think about it too, but more it makes sense that they introduce a mid card belt sooner than later. There's a bunch of guys who aren't main event level anytime soon but could be elevated by a mid card title that means something. Page, MJF, Sabian, Spears, Allin, Janela, Havoc, Guevara, Jungle Boy all come to mind. You figure the legit main event contenders in the next calender year include Jericho, Cody, Moxley, Omega, Pac, and Scurll assuming he signs there as expected.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
152
He did pretty well at Triplemania.

Only thing about it is that he's 37, pretty late to be jumping on pro wrestling but he could do well. He could be a natural like Rousey.
I think Velasquez would be a great add for them. He seems to have a lot of potential, he's a rare big man that could be available to them, and he's certainly a well known name that could help get some eyes on their product too.
 

RS1984

Member
Dec 29, 2017
430
Kenny Omega in the latest BTE is starting to remind me of 2003 heel Rock. Acting like he's bigger than everything.
 

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,797
Kenny Omega in the latest BTE is starting to remind me of 2003 heel Rock. Acting like he's bigger than everything.
I never got right into Cobra-era Kenny, but I'm looking forward to his inevitable heel turn.

PS. I kind of wonder how much time Cassidy is being filmed, he's trying not to crack. I'd like to think "all the time".
 

Somnia

Member
Oct 25, 2017
961
Just watched BTE, I get the feeling were on a path to break up The Elite and having them fight each other.
 

Asakim

Member
Oct 27, 2017
587
I didn't even realize that he didn't bring Brandi up at all which is probably more insulting to her than anything he would've said. The champion is cold blooded.
 

LiquidSolid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,748
I think the plan was always to do a slow-burn with Kenny, but they're going a bit slower now that Mox landed in their lap.
Nope, the original plan was to make Kenny their first champ. They completely changed directions when Pac pulled out of DoN.

I'm fine with his current story though, breaking him down before building him back up. Jericho's a good choice for their first champ, even if he isn't that great in the ring anymore, and Mox should be the guy who beats him at their Q1 PPV.
 

plagiarize

To its ports I have been
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,178
Cape Cod, MA
Why are guys talking about Luchasaurus like he isn't a dinosaur? Didn't you see his weigh in? Or how the arena shook as he approached the ring?

He did pretty well at Triplemania.

Only thing about it is that he's 37, pretty late to be jumping on pro wrestling but he could do well. He could be a natural like Rousey.
He's 100% a natural. There's no question, unless they were lying about him having trained for three months for that AAA debut. What he did was limited, but surprisingly sharp.
 

Violet

Member
Feb 7, 2019
1,747
dc
Would guess that Cain would cost too much but he would be a worthwhile choice as a special attraction for a big show in Mexico (or the Southwest in general).

I'm sure we aren't far off from some sort of AAA co-branded show anyway
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
152
I wouldn't mind seeing them go a little heavier into the AAA partnership anyway, at least once they've established the product. I think using more of their AAA talents would help AEW stand out as a product different from WWE with more unique characters. I don't know, would bringing in some of the clowns or the minotaur at some point be too much?
 
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RS1984

Member
Dec 29, 2017
430
I wouldn't mind seeing them go a little heavier into the AAA partnership anyway. I think using more of their talents would help AEW stand out as a product different from WWE with more unique characters. I don't know, would bringing in some of the clowns or the minotaur at some point be too much?

They have Luchasarus a wrestling dinosaur and the living legend Orange Cassidy. The clowns and the minotaur would fit right in.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
152
They have Luchasarus a wrestling dinosaur and the living legend Orange Cassidy. The clowns and the minotaur would fit right in.
Good point. I like seeing more characters like this. Modern WWE has too many guys with fake sounding names and no character or defining characteristics. It's another one of those things where, if I want to watch two ordinary guys fight, I'll just watch UFC. I want wrestling to exist in some sort of logic space and make sense, but it has to be over-the-top to some extent.
 

FLEABttn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
494
NoVA
They have Luchasarus a wrestling dinosaur and the living legend Orange Cassidy. The clowns and the minotaur would fit right in.
Good point. I like seeing more characters like this. Modern WWE has too many guys with fake sounding names and no character or defining characteristics. It's another one of those things where, if I want to watch two ordinary guys fight, I'll just watch UFC. I want wrestling to exist in some sort of logic space and make sense, but it has to be over-the-top to some extent.
hot take, the only people from AAA that don't make as much sense showing up in AEW are like blue demon jr and dr wagner jr (and maybe their la parka). you could just about slot in anyone else and it would work.
 

Somnia

Member
Oct 25, 2017
961
hot take, the only people from AAA that don't make as much sense showing up in AEW are like blue demon jr and dr wagner jr (and maybe their la parka). you could just about slot in anyone else and it would work.
They'd have to make it clear not to use certain words in AEW though as we've learned in the last week Cody wasn't aware of lol
 

ExKage

Member
Sep 9, 2019
76
Forgive me if this is the wrong place. Relatively new to PPVs, especially ones from B/R or FITE TV. How long does a purchase last on B/R? I bought All-Out maybe an hour before the end of the show. Can't seem to find Double or Nothing. I went to Las Vegas to watch the match but I'd like to watch it again etc.

I think it'd be interesting to get more people signed with AEW but I only really recognize less than a quarter of the roster. Feel like I need the show or more BTE releases.
 

Somnia

Member
Oct 25, 2017
961
Forgive me if this is the wrong place. Relatively new to PPVs, especially ones from B/R or FITE TV. How long does a purchase last on B/R? I bought All-Out maybe an hour before the end of the show. Can't seem to find Double or Nothing. I went to Las Vegas to watch the match but I'd like to watch it again etc.

I think it'd be interesting to get more people signed with AEW but I only really recognize less than a quarter of the roster. Feel like I need the show or more BTE releases.
Double or Nothing is still viewable for me as someone who bought it. I just searched AEW and there it was.