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Pooh

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Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
... but also that we'll probably not be getting them anytime soon.

EDIT: This is not a critique of God of War in particular. Until this edit I never even used the words "God of War." I'm sure it's a great game! Keep playing it and enjoy it! I'm not saying it shouldn't exist or should be different.

It's no secret that the (western) game industry is primarily comprised of white guys, and as they age along with the industry I think it's no surprise that we're seeing more and more games starring "older guys" and, for emotional impact, raising kids or kid stand-ins. I also think that it's a pretty (sad) conscious decision by the industry to keep these games "marketable" by having them star (mostly white) guys as opposed to people of color or, you know, giving mothers a shot.

But it also makes sense! White guys will want to tell white guy stories, and sad dad stories because they work long hours and never see their kids. (This is a common complaint in the industry).

EDIT: I separated the "white guys" and "sad dad" because people were erroneously trying to think it was implying minorities can't enjoy these stories. I think that was an argument in bad faith, but I'm clarifying it here anyway: I'm talking about the perspective of the creators needing to be diverse, and am not commenting on the audience.

I think more than ever these sorts of stories are showing that we need more types of voices in the industry, to tell their stories and tell stories from different perspectives. I guess the question is whether or not that can possibly happen in the "AAA" high-budget, high-risk space.

In short, I want to see a "Get Out" or "Black Panther" or "Wonder Woman" or "Empire" in the games industry.

What do you think, Era?

EDIT: I've made some edits as I think people are getting too caught up in some (admitted) mistaken-specifics. I'm talking about father-figure protagonists that are created by and for a primarily aging white male audience.
 
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LightEntite

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,079
i mean....how many sad dad games do we have at this point?

and this nitpick of yours sounds very oddly specific. I don't think the "WHITE GUYS" part is as big as an issue as just a lack of trope diversity to begin with.

It's less "sad dads raising kids" and more "broken adult + helpless yet spunky and oddly helpful weakling" that bothers me. But that's just me.
 

Deleted member 29682

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12,290
I agree with you in principle but

White guys will want to tell white guy stories and sad dad stories because they work long hours and never see their kids.

this seems like a bit of a weird generalisation to make. It's a tough industry but people make stories pertaining to their life circumstances for all sorts of reasons, not because of some broken family life as you imply.
 

Phrozenflame500

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,132
I completely agree, stories reflect the experiences and demographics of the people making them and more diverse set of game creators will mean a more diverse set of stories.
 

Radishhead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,568
I thought GoW was praised because it was the first "sad dad" game ever released? I can't think of any others.
 

Deleted member 19761

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
356
Is this a liberal troll post?

1. Popular game comes out starring character of X physical identity with motivation Y

2. Complain about representation of Z physical identity and motivation A

3. Feign morality
 

LightEntite

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,079
A lot

Like this isn't some snarky Silky post, we have...we have a lot.

That wasn't really rhetorical question, i'm legitimately curious how many we have at this point.

The only two that come to mind are Last of Us and the recent GoW.


I feel like i would have noticed if it was some huge trend, but people continue to suggest that "DADS" are the new thing when I really can't think of any more.

Which is why I think the actual trope here is "old guy" + "young person".

It used to just be "Guy" + "Sexy Girl". But that isn't "emotional" anymore so nobody does it.
 

kadotsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,504
I'm glad you took it on yourself to remote psycho analyse a whole industry. Also you won't get radical new stuff from the AAA space. That stuff bubbles up from the game jammy goo of very small titles.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
lee-and-clem.jpg
 

CHC

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,246
I mean the only other "sad dad" game I can think of this generation is Assassin's Creed Origins, which.... doesn't star a white guy.

And Kratos is also voiced by a black man, both in his current incarnation as well as the original trilogy. He's not really any readily identifiable race, I definitely don't consider him a "white dude."

The one issue that came to mind when playing God of War (while reflecting on The Last of Us and Horizon) is that there aren't any really flawed female characters, not in the way Joel or Kratos are. Aloy was very straight-laced and good, which was fine, but it's not really something I've seen the industry do much of in general.
 

Abriael

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,605
Milano - Italy
This is probably the worst case of mistargeting I saw in a long, long time.

Up until a couple years ago, having a game featuring an old dude that shows vulnerabilities and feelings like paternal love as a protagonist, would have been considered extremely risky by anyone greenlighting an action game.

The "dad games" are a large step forward for the industry, and painting them as a negative makes me raise my brow so much that it's becoming a toupee.
 

New Fang

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,542
I can honestly say I don't think I've ever given a damn about that race/sex of the main character in games I play.

Is it a well realized character? If yes, cool.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,496
I've been feeling this pretty hard too. I'm not particularly interested in "aging white guy is coming to terms with being a dad - he has a kid now and he's trying to teach him, but really he's the one learning from him" stories - they're just played out and dull. It's not even a phenomenon exclusive to video games - it's everywhere in film, TV and prose, too.

I'd really prefer to see stories from more marginalized and underrepresented voices, and non-standard protagonists if at all possible.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
You're not wrong. And it's amusing how these things started appearing after many developers started to get into their 40's. Sadly, the industry is largely male dominant and we really won't see much else.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
I thought GoW was praised because it was the first "sad dad" game ever released? I can't think of any others.

God of War
The Last of Us
The Witcher 3
Bioshock Infinite (if I stretch it really hard)
The Walking Dead
LISA

Kiryu is Japanese (obviously ik you know). Ellie is not Joel's daughter and Ellie is not a "son".

I think it was pretty clear what the dynamic was between Joel and Ellie, and by the end of the story Joel basically thought of Ellie as a replacement daughter.

I wouldn't be as specific as calling it the "sad dad" trope. It's just the old father figure trope.
 

ReginaldXIV

Member
Nov 4, 2017
7,781
Minnesota
I found the story to be generally relateable to anyone with an emotionally closed off father. Outside of the skin tone on the characters what makes this a white guy story?
 

banter

Member
Jan 12, 2018
4,127
I'm seeing a lot of titles thrown around yet only God of War and Telltale Walking Dead really fit the bill. It's much more of a movie thing than a gaming thing.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
You're acting like there are a tonne of sad dad games out there, when there aren't. Add to that, at least it makes a change from the countless tried and tested and often dull and rather generic solo heroes we've been getting for the last two decades.
 

Radishhead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,568
God of War
The Last of Us
The Witcher 3
Bioshock Infinite (if I stretch it really hard)
The Walking Dead
LISA



I think it was pretty clear what the dynamic was between Joel and Ellie, and by the end of the story Joel basically thought of Ellie as a replacement daughter.

Huh fair enough, I've never played any of those games.
 

Deleted member 19761

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
356
God of War
The Last of Us
The Witcher 3
Bioshock Infinite (if I stretch it really hard)
The Walking Dead
LISA



I think it was pretty clear what the dynamic was between Joel and Ellie, and by the end of the story Joel basically thought of Ellie as a replacement daughter.

Yes I see your point, but OP specifically says "raising sons", only GOW fits that description, which is the point I was making.
 

JetSetSoul

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,185
As a not sad Dad I think it's fantastic.

So bored of characters without family. Boring and unrelatable. Give us some family depth.
 

capnjazz

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
991
Byrgenwerth
Is there even a large enough demographic for the games OP wants to be made? I don't think there would be anything wrong with those types of games but remember that this is the game developers' livelihood and expensive AAA bombs can sink studios.
 

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
That wasn't really rhetorical question, i'm legitimately curious how many we have at this point.

The only two that come to mind are Last of Us and the recent GoW.
Off the top of my head.
  • Splinter Cell: Conviction
  • Dead Rising 2
  • Telltale Walking Dead
  • The Last of Us
  • Bioshock Infinite
  • Bioshock 2
  • Asura's Wrath
  • Yakuza
  • Resident Evil Revelations 2
  • Dishonored 2
  • Heavy Rain
  • Gears of War 4
  • Fallout 4
  • Grand Theft Auto V
  • Red Dead Redemption
  • Tekken 7
 

Pablo Mesa

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
6,878
I mean if we are gonna take every Mentor scenario as "sad dad" Ass creed 3 had Connor and the guy that taughts him into the ways lf the Assissins over his Biological Templar Father
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,402
like sure, there needs to be more varied voices in games but like how many sad dad games are there that fit your description OP?
God of War sure, TLoU doesn't have a son figure. what else am I missing? The Witcher III? also no son figure. do the CoD's and Battlefield games do this?
What remains of Edith Finch is a sad mom story.

Give some examples OP
 

Deleted member 3925

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Oct 25, 2017
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The only "sad dad" game I can think of that released this gen is God of War. Don't know what you mean.
 

Giudecca

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Oct 27, 2017
315
Hey, at least it's a step up the from "White guy with angst over dead wife/girlfriend" trope that's still everywhere.
 
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