It's actually told in the "God persepctive," so none of us can relate.
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All of these sad dad games illustrate how badly other voices are needed in the industry
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I don't care whether the main protagonist is white, yellow, black, man, woman, all of that combined. I think it changes absolutely nothing and people need to stop believing they make society progress by changing the skin of a character. They don't.
Filmmaking or game making are entertainment. Helping society progresses and reducing discrimination you can do by helping people in the real world.
All those questions are just a waste of time from spoiled people who have time to think on their hand meanwhile some are actually truly helping other that need it in the real world.
Game development is not digging a pit in an abandon zone in Central Africa to help population that may need it. It is not winning a lawsuit against a discriminating group either. It's entertainment.
And the gamer perspective would add that diversity doesn't provide you a better game or a better gameplay, and this is what matter.
Filmmaking or game making are entertainment. Helping society progresses and reducing discrimination you can do by helping people in the real world.
All those questions are just a waste of time from spoiled people who have time to think on their hand meanwhile some are actually truly helping other that need it in the real world.
Game development is not digging a pit in an abandon zone in Central Africa to help population that may need it. It is not winning a lawsuit against a discriminating group either. It's entertainment.
And the gamer perspective would add that diversity doesn't provide you a better game or a better gameplay, and this is what matter.
Personally, I'm not really looking at this from a racial angle like the OP, I'm strictly looking at it from the overplayed father figure role. Although the large amount of white male protagonists is definitely its own issue within the industry that should be addressed as well, I personally don't think having a colored father figure story is the answer for better storytelling. I don't see stories like ones from Telltale's The Walking dead with Lee and Clementine to differentiate that much from the trope. It's one in the same with all of them to me, which is why I included it with the list of games I mentioned.
By all means, it is more welcomed to have a colored male protagonist than once again introducing another white male character that we've seen time and time again, but I definitely feel we can innovate further. Like for example, a mother figure protagonist.
By all means, it is more welcomed to have a colored male protagonist than once again introducing another white male character that we've seen time and time again, but I definitely feel we can innovate further. Like for example, a mother figure protagonist.
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Kratos isn't even white:
The dude is grecian. He is a spartan. That means Mediterranean which is a caucasian sub race. But that's where race becomes so tricky. Caucasian as a biological taxon and Caucasian as the US social system understands it are not the same thing.
That's quite a generalization, how many of these are actually about parenting at all? TLOU is about a guy finding a reason to live, acting selfishly to have his surrogate daughter. Bioshock: Infinite is devoid of any actual fatherly moments (much to its detriment)... like yes the dadification of gaming is real, but its only a surface detail, Like only The Witcher 3 and God of War in recent years are actually about parenting in a significant way, and even in The Witcher 3 there is so much going on that the Geralt-Ciri relationship never feels as committed or big a focus as Kratos-Atreus in GoW. These games are about vastly different things beyond the surface.
If your going to go that far, then what does "white" even mean at this point?
All those lazy unemployed black and brown dads just not working and hanging out with their kids all day. They wouldn't understand.
I myself hope to someday become a hardworking white man that misses his kids.
I myself hope to someday become a hardworking white man that misses his kids.
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Sexually ambiguous I'll grant you, but red hair? Who are you thinking of besides Aloy?
Kratos: "We are not white men, we are more than that.....BOY!"
I don't understand this whatsoever. Can you expound a bit on how the whiteness shows through as opposed to just the father aspect?
I'm disagree with a lot of the applied context in the OP. The emotional growth that the statistically small portion of games that focus estranged parent child relationships revolve around aren't specific to any race.
The OP saying we need different perspectives feels like is has less to do with the surrogate parent story, and more with what color that parent is. I don't even agree that the best examples of this archetype are that similar in perspective. GoW, TLOU, Assassin's Creed, Walking Dead, Witcher 3 are pretty decently different in the relationships between parent and child.
The OP saying we need different perspectives feels like is has less to do with the surrogate parent story, and more with what color that parent is. I don't even agree that the best examples of this archetype are that similar in perspective. GoW, TLOU, Assassin's Creed, Walking Dead, Witcher 3 are pretty decently different in the relationships between parent and child.
Dads are really not all that prominent in games.
I mean i get wanting more diversity, i do too.
But indepth parent-child relationships really aren't that prevalent. Even calling it a trend is a stretch when there's not even a handful of high profile ones in the last 5 years.
I mean i get wanting more diversity, i do too.
But indepth parent-child relationships really aren't that prevalent. Even calling it a trend is a stretch when there's not even a handful of high profile ones in the last 5 years.
Again, I think we absolutely need more diversity among authors and developers (but looking at God of War, for example, the combat director is black and the guy gave the entire industry a lesson, so we're getting there) but I don't really see the connection with the "sad dad trope".
In short, I don't see why if we had more middle aged black guys at the helm of videogame productions and less middle aged white guys we would necessary have less stories about sad dads. I don't think fatherhood and the struggles it brings would be any less relevant to black authors (and black players).
Another thing to consider is that the "dad angle" works both ways. I've been watching a lot of Let's Plays of God of War (incidentally mostly from black and female youtubers) and I've heard more comments along the lines of "Kratos reminds me of my dad" rather than "Atreus reminds me of my son".
Because caring for your children is a species wide constant. Your skin colour does not change that prospective.
I don't think anyone is being anti-white. It's a call for more diversity in a medium overly dominated by white male characters.
Consider the privilege, being white is very close to being God.
Well there it is.
A huge chunk of the highest profile games are dad games.
I mean I feel like I could present pretty strong arguments that The Last of Us is Joel's story over Ellie's.
Remember the scene where Joel keeps glancing at his broken watch and then Ellie eventually makes the comment "your watch is broken"? If this is Joel's story, I think we can indunce the point of the scene is: to highlight that decades later, Joel is still thinking about his daughter every day and Ellie is now intimately tied into his old life vs. new one situation that's going on in his brain by sarcastically commenting on his most important keepsake. And this is Ellie's story, we can induce that:...Ellie is really good at pointing out broken watches? This scene would just be weird and doesn't tie into the story and the themes involved from begging to end.
I feel like I could do this for virtually every scene. Ellie is just along for the thematic exploration of Joel ride.
ok then, what makes Dad of Boi only "Easily Digestible to 17-32 years old white males" ??
cause, fatherhood is different from everyone, disregarding race. like, really, not even 2 white dad will have the same fatherhood experience
unless im wrong, and then please tell me so things only "non white Parents" have to live with during parenthood/ raising a child?
Great post.
More diversity is needed, yes, but what in the world does that have to do with fathers in games.
I don't know about the white women with red hair. The last few games with female leads I played were pretty diverse.
And about the "sexually ambiguous" part, for some reason I see mostly women advocating for it these days (Hell, a lot of voice actresses ship their characters with other girls).
And yet only a few of them released within the past 5 years.
Because it isn't. Atleast not in how it can be told with a game like GOW.
And how would american police brutality take effect in any of these fantastical games where america or police doesn't exist or matter in any meaningful way?
Can you actually argument that, aside from using one liners?
How is the white and nonwhite fatherhood experience "vastly different", expecially in relation to storylines like TLOU or God of War? What makes those stories relatable for "white dads" and less relatable for black dads?
...I never said that Joel wasn't a major character. I just said I felt it was Ellie's story more than Joel's because I related to her a lot.
Half of this list is a damn stretch to be boiled down to a "dad game". I played Dishonored 2 as Emily, she is a sad dad? Secobdly, of the list that does qualify, how many do it exceptionally well? Not a lot. We should be praising games like God of War for bringing great, personal tales to the medium. Not berating them for being the "wrong" great, personal tale.
Oh I mistook what your intention behind "flawed" was.
But yeah. It's easy to forgot how many strong female protag titles exist and are stunningly good at that. I purposfully left out Horizon because you mentioned it but it's another to add to that list of female led games. As are Mirrors Edge, Assasins Creed Liberation and Syndicate and Origins, Bayonetta, FF13 trilogy, Neir 2, Witcher 3, Darksiders 3, Primal, ReCore etc etc
The list is pretty big tbh and has all many of female protags. While I don't disagree gaming as a whole has some issues, to ignore the diversity to fit a narrative as people so often tend to do is a disservice.
Which is exactly my point. Jumping on the "too many white men make games and it's a problem" band wagon is short sighted. It for one ignores all the strong female talent in the industry who do have a very large say in how games are made. A few influence people off the top of my head
Bonnie Ross - The head of 343i
Kiki Wolfkill - Another 343i studio head
Shannon Studstill - Head of sony santa monica (the people who made the big sad dad game)
Amy Hening
Karla Zimonja
and there's big pushes to get women into game development as a whole with female only hackathons and microsofts womeningaming push with it's own award shows and events and countless others.
Do more men exist in the development pool in general yes but that's because women don't persue careers in STEM fields and related fields as much and that isn't always the fault of those fields it's just that as a society there's a difference between male and female culture and certain job roles are less attractive to each. I won't deny that a problem of misogyny existing in game development but like all social problems that are "hot topics" i think it's blown largely out of proportion which isn't to disregard it because it's shit but that's what happens when you have a society in which certain people are ignorant shit heads and like with anything you won't change their view. It's not institutionalised or as endemic as people make out.
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Personally I'm happy to see the industry has grown to include more adult themes such as parenthood. The color of the skin doesn't really affect me nor does the sex of the protagonist. Success with these types of stories will naturally expand to include more variety as sales are found in the genera.
I've been really enjoying God Of War. It's the story of a Greek man / God slayer and his half Norse son. I haven't played any old white father games yet unless Last of Us is included in that description. Tell Tale's Walking Dead game featured the older man / child dynamic featuring African American protagonists. Season one was amazing. Still need to play season 2.
I've been really enjoying God Of War. It's the story of a Greek man / God slayer and his half Norse son. I haven't played any old white father games yet unless Last of Us is included in that description. Tell Tale's Walking Dead game featured the older man / child dynamic featuring African American protagonists. Season one was amazing. Still need to play season 2.
OP
OP
Jesus, you're trying really hard here, but come down from the mount
If you guys want to say that being a POC parent is the same as being a white parent in today's day and age... well, not sure what to tell you
How exactly is it different, especially from a gaming perspective?
I feel like a better way to phrase this is "Where's all my mom games!". I think the OP is close to a point: A lot of the most highly praised "story" games are coming from an angle of a father like figure connecting with a child. The Witcher, God of War, The Walking Dead S1, and The Last of Us are all part of this. It's not bad that they do it, but it's slightly troubling when it feels like that's the main sticking point for "higher concept storytelling" in gaming.
I also think it's a little more nuanced than one would think. It's easy to say "oh this is just because designers are dads now!' That's probably true, but I think it's also a reflection on years of hyper-masculine themes. It's not that these games necessarily break that trend, but the idea of framing these male protagonists around something that actually cracks their shell of hyper masculinity is the product of having designers getting tired, or reflecting on those stories of years past. I agree that it's a good step, but boy, we have a long way to go.
I also think it's a little more nuanced than one would think. It's easy to say "oh this is just because designers are dads now!' That's probably true, but I think it's also a reflection on years of hyper-masculine themes. It's not that these games necessarily break that trend, but the idea of framing these male protagonists around something that actually cracks their shell of hyper masculinity is the product of having designers getting tired, or reflecting on those stories of years past. I agree that it's a good step, but boy, we have a long way to go.
This is true to an certain extent, however in reality people of color dont get the same opportunities as white people and this would significantly affect the difficulty of raising a child. Games based on these lines would be very different to our current dad games.
All this energy put on those useless thoughts while most of you just ignore the guy dying in the cold down the block.
The only think that matter is the quality of the product and changing skin is not changing anything about that.
If you want to help diversity, help people irl, build an association, make your voice heard because of the quality of your work, serve as an example, help south economic countries grow and so on depending on your position.
But for christ sake let media and art in peace and let people tell the story they want without forcing any moral knight thoughts on those. Kratos is a spartan, he is not black or chinese.
The only think that matter is the quality of the product and changing skin is not changing anything about that.
If you want to help diversity, help people irl, build an association, make your voice heard because of the quality of your work, serve as an example, help south economic countries grow and so on depending on your position.
But for christ sake let media and art in peace and let people tell the story they want without forcing any moral knight thoughts on those. Kratos is a spartan, he is not black or chinese.
No, I'd actually like a happy mom game. Give her a couple kids that she's proud to beat people up to protect. I'm game!
Yeah this is true, though ironically enough one of the "dad" games that some are attacking in this thread, The Witcher 3, can approximate the minority experience because of how Geralt faces a lot of prejudice.
OP
OP
I think saying vastly is a stretch, but if I've learned anything from my non-white friends, there's diversity that comes with different cultural upbringing. Having said that, cultural upbringing definitely changes without race needing to, people just tend to use that as a marker.
Pokemon ORAS, of all games, has a sad mum story with the Delta Episode. It was surprisingly great.
This industry had 'developers into their 40's' 40 years ago.
There's Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver and its sequel Defiance from about twenty years ago. There were no mature white men in the director's chair there either.
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