• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

ReginaldXIV

Member
Nov 4, 2017
7,801
Minnesota
My life as a white person is different in countless ways from a black or hispanic person in this country.

Yes, however there are also numerous things that anyone can relate to, parenthood being one of them. Circling back to Kratos because that is what sparked this topic in the first place. I can guarantee anyone of any background could relate to the dynamic between Kratos and his son. The only thing missing is Kratos being more fun and open around Atreus' friends.
 

BDubsLegend

Banned
Jan 24, 2018
1,027
But I'm not saying, "God of War, but Kratos is black."

I'm saying, "[insert game here created by minority voices]"
Lol if you think anything on the scale of a modern AAA video game could be created by primarily minority voices you have a deluded view of race relations in America. I see black panther has people fooled. Do you thing that movie would have been made with just black voices with no pre buildup from the other Disney movies? People really think it was the first time someone tried to make an all black superhero movie. Were not even at the black panther level in video games outside of maybe indies.
 

Craymond

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,282
Portland
Off the top of my head.
  • Splinter Cell: Conviction
  • Dead Rising 2
  • Telltale Walking Dead
  • The Last of Us
  • Bioshock Infinite
  • Bioshock 2
  • Asura's Wrath
  • Yakuza
  • Resident Evil Revelations 2
  • Dishonored 2
  • Heavy Rain
  • Gears of War 4
  • Fallout 4
  • Grand Theft Auto V
  • Red Dead Redemption
  • Tekken 7

Update the OP with this list... also get a better OP.

I get the point and good idea for a thread but terribly worded.
 

TheWickedSoul

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,156
Yeah, I'd like for it to change. I want to experience what others have to say. One of the reasons why i play as a female when there's a choice.
 

lost7

Member
Feb 20, 2018
2,750
More diversity in games would be very welcome (and to be fair things are slowly improving), but trying to create a narrative that dad stories are "more palatable" to white people than others is a crazy narrative to me. Like seriously, why would the relationship between Kratos and Atreus, Joe and Ellie, Geralt and Ciri or Lee and Clementine be more or less geared to a white man than a black or asian man?

Seems to me like OP has some unfortunate notions regarding the lifestyle and interests of people of different race.
 

Deleted member 21380

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
528
Germany
But I'm not saying, "God of War, but Kratos is black."

I'm saying, "[insert game here created by minority voices]"

Yes, but you did so poorly. Really sorry, but if you left all that "all those sad dad games" out of the OP, no one really would disagree with you(well except for that one weirdo a page back): We need more diverse teams on AAA games, and it would be very interesting to see what stories those teams will create.
 
OP
OP
Pooh

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
Yes, however there are also numerous things that anyone can relate to, parenthood being one of them. Circling back to Kratos because that is what sparked this topic in the first place. I can guarantee anyone of any background could relate to the dynamic between Kratos and his son. The only thing missing is Kratos being more fun and open around Atreus' friends.
I'm not saying God of War shouldn't exist. By all accounts it's awesome. That's cool.

I'm not trying to take away your games, folks.

Lol if you think anything on the scale of a modern AAA video game could be created by primarily minority voices you have a deluded view of race relations in America. I see black panther has people fooled. Do you thing that movie would have been made with just black voices with no pre buildup from the other Disney movies? People really think it was the first time someone tried to make an all black superhero movie. Were not even at the black panther level in video games outside of maybe indies.

I mean the first line in my OP acknowledges the unlikelihood of it. Why shouldn't I want it, or discuss it?

We don't have a Black Panther in videogames, but we also don't even have a Get Out.
 

Stalker

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,733
This thread was a mistake. Op used the familiar rallying cry of this is for "white males" when nothing in the context of the game would make the experience any different regardless of your skin color. We need better representation in culture in general but thus was not a good example of needing change, especially in a high fantasy setting that doesn't even reflect the real world. Now the white man does have built in privilege and access a black man does not, I mean for a realistic example if a black man was in the exact same situation Cory Barlog was in could he even get this game made when it was so close to being put on the shelf? Back to the game, if this was a story about raising a child on earth or in a setting that reflected real life OP would have a leg to stand on. Often I see a lot of effort being put into "helping" or "understanding" minorities on the internet but it often is directed at superficial issues. As many have already said, changing the race of Kratos should have no effect on the story they are trying to tell. If anything why does a character based in rage, murder and destruction get voiced by a black man in two separate instances. Maybe that says something about expectations of what a violent, murderous man sounds like.

Solid points. I think Kratos is voiced by 2 black men because of a few reasons, Racial background, Black guys typically having a deeper voice etc. I think saying that it's a expectations of violent and murderous men is really pulling at straws. And also I think if Cory Barlog was black a black man in the same situation who tried to reboot God of War it would still have been picked up because this theoretical black cory still has his legacy with the series behind him and an amazing game pitch. Now would black cory have ever gotten to that point.. Unlikely because of racist attitudes and less oppotunities way back when.
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,110
where's the happy dad games at
uSzo3Na.gif
 

VanDoughnut

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,424
To reduce GOW to "white people telling a story from a white perspective" is cheap.

I'm not white and that seems like a cynical way to approach its story. I thought the story of GOW was emotionally resonant. Themes of family aren't exclusively white, they're universal themes that reach a broad audience.
 
OP
OP
Pooh

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
Yes, but you did so poorly. Really sorry, but if you left all that "all those sad dad games" out of the OP, no one really would disagree with you(well except for that one weirdo a page back): We need more diverse teams on AAA games, and it would be very interesting to see what stories those teams will create.
Yeah, maybe. The sad dad thing is pertinent, but yeah I could've done a better job explaining why. A lot of people are focused on the race part of the equation even though I brought up gender as well. Where are the emotional mom games? Plus a lot of people are hyper-defensive about God of War in general right now, and I'm not even criticizing the game.
 

lumenflower

Member
Jan 8, 2018
173
NY
So I don't think is about the sad dad games at all, really? I think it would've been better to just talk about wanting more voices in gaming without bringing up the sad dad games, because people are going to jump to the defensive without really getting what you're arguing(unless I'm the one who isn't understanding). People just really love their sad dad games! Myself included!

That being said, I'm all for what you're saying. There's nothing wrong with diversifying gaming, appealing to different target audiences. There is literally no downside to representing different voices and different groups. Idk who would argue otherwise...

Honestly, I'm just waiting on the Hispanic sad mom game of my dreams.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
I'm not saying God of War shouldn't exist. By all accounts it's awesome. That's cool.

I'm not trying to take away your games, folks.

Was that saying you are trying to take away games? I don't think it was. I think it was saying your premise here doesn't make sense when you consider the overlaping aspects of parenthood that transcend race.
 

Arkaign

Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,991
Agree : we need increasing diversity in the stories and representation in gaming culture.

Respectfully disagree that there is some major trend of 'sad white dad' games. Think of how many releases, hell just in the AAA space, release annually, then contrast those hundreds/thousands of titles with those that meet this criteria. I have a stack of ~130ish PS4 games. Going by the criteria in this thread, 2 sort of fit, a PS3 port from 5 years back, and GoW.

Beyond that even, quality is everything. Just look at some of my favorite YouTubers who are PoC, the ones I watch loooove GoW :)

I hope we get more and more great stories from various identities, cultures, and perspectives. For example, does anyone know of a good game that comes from an Indian or Hindi dev that speaks to the creative team's experience? Shia? Sunni? Kurd? Aloite? First Nations? Dangbon?

I mean it's ok if stories from white devs or portaying people you don't care about don't interest you. It doesn't make you wrong, or the games bad. I just hope the industry keeps expanding and reaching wider depths. It seems this diversity is easier to find in blogs, film/tv (more independent and foreign helps), music, than it is in gaming. I'm sure some of that is part of corporate risk management, as games are expensive and they definitely value profits above all else.

Sigh. :/
 
OP
OP
Pooh

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
To reduce GOW to "white people telling a story from a white perspective" is cheap.

I'm not white and that seems like a cynical way to approach its story. I thought the story of GOW was emotionally resonant. Themes of family aren't exclusively white, they're universal themes that reach a broad audience.
I'm sure God of War is great. I'm really not talking about the game or criticizing it because I haven't played it. I've heard nothing but great things about the story, and I'm sure it's really good! But also when I saw the trailers for it I had a very strong feeling of deja vu.
 

Deleted member 11262

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,459
That wasn't really rhetorical question, i'm legitimately curious how many we have at this point.

The only two that come to mind are Last of Us and the recent GoW.


I feel like i would have noticed if it was some huge trend, but people continue to suggest that "DADS" are the new thing when I really can't think of any more.

Which is why I think the actual trope here is "old guy" + "young person".

It used to just be "Guy" + "Sexy Girl". But that isn't "emotional" anymore so nobody does it.
The actual trope here is "Sony is doing something and it's successful...it obviously has to be some kind of AAA trend they're exploiting."
 

RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
You know....Greek people are generally pretty tanned yeah?

I know I'm the pasty white exception to that rule (and get made fun of a lot at work as a result), but yeah, his skin colour looks about right for a Greek person.

Well there are white greeks and not so white greeks that also changed a bit through the history of the country. the original Kratos doesn't look like your average white videogame hero anyway, not only because of the colour but form of his face and mouth, nose etc.. He could be persian, egypt, arab from his looks without problems. So i don't think he is a good example for this thread (which i honestly find a bit funny). They changed his appearance a bit for this nordic gods game though. Still, as a more northern european looking guy without monster muscles i can relate to him as much as i could if he was more black or asian, i'm not looking anything like him. His son looks more white/northern european, probably comes after his mother.
 

J3wB0y_072

Member
Feb 18, 2018
137
I believe the reason we have so many "white dads" protagonists is because most game directors are white dads. It's better to write or develop what you know about and what resonates to the person, like Stephen King said: "write what you know". Also, that's why developed usually make the games in a setting they are familiar with. You don't see many western developers making games about feudal Japan, and when japanese developers make games in a western setting we can always spot some cultural differences, for example.
 

Deleted member 21380

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
528
Germany
Yeah, maybe. The sad dad thing is pertinent, but yeah I could've done a better job explaining why. A lot of people are focused on the race part of the equation even though I brought up gender as well. Where are the emotional mom games? Plus a lot of people are hyper-defensive about God of War in general right now, and I'm not even criticizing the game.

It's actually not really pertinent, as you can see by the massive moving of goalposts and mental hoop jumping to come up with a list of "sad white dad" games that is longer than two in this thread.

I personally think the reason you see sad dad stuff everywhere is because you, as you said, work on a sad dad game, don't you think? :)
 
Oct 27, 2017
377
I wonder if every single AAA single player game will get a thread complaining about diversity this year. It gets tiresome. There's always some sort of underlying evil being formed by the white males creating games. These thread almost seem like trolling, and I'm sick of it.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
The reason so many of the dads are white is that most game protagonists are white

We literally just got a not-white dad game
 

Salty Rice

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,612
Pancake City
I cant hold all these sad dad games since there are so many.....oh wait there are not.

Also most are white because most characters are white. Im for more diversity but i also dont see it as a problem.

As a white person i can identify with Lee who is black. Yeah i know its crazy.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Pooh

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
It's actually not really pertinent, as you can see by the massive moving of goalposts and mental hoop jumping to come up with a list of "sad white dad" games that are longer than two.

I personally think the reason you see sad dad stuff everywhere is because you, as you said, work on a sad dad game, don't you think? :)

I agreed earlier that I mistakenly conflated "white" and "sad dad" in my OP even though I'm talking about the two issues as related but separate things

But yeah maybe I am more sensitive to it than most, I feel like it's everywhere in the industry

anyway it's all "IMO"
 

BDubsLegend

Banned
Jan 24, 2018
1,027
I mean the first line in my OP acknowledges the unlikelihood of it. Why shouldn't I want it, or discuss it?

We don't have a Black Panther in videogames, but we also don't even have a Get Out.
In my opinion I think this is your real point but we don't have to use God of War and games like it to get there. Cory Barlog more than likely would have been a terrible director for a black fatherhood experience wherever it would have taken place, but he was a pretty good director for a child raising experience similar to his own. We don't have to tear down or lament other stories, just make sure we support others voiced when it's their turn.
 

Drewfasa35

Member
Jan 30, 2018
8
Well there are white greeks and not so white greeks that also changed a bit through the history of the country. the original Kratos doesn't look like your average white videogame hero anyway, not only because of the colour but form of his face and mouth, nose etc.. He could be persian, egypt, arab from his looks without problems. So i don't think he is a good example for this thread (which i honestly find a bit funny). They changed his appearance a bit for this nordic gods game though. Still, as a more northern european looking guy without monster muscles i can relate to him as much as i could if he was more black or asian, i'm not looking anything like him. His son looks more white/northern european, probably comes after his mother.
The reason Kratos is a very pale white has to do with the story of the previous GoW games. There was a point in one of the prequel games that his skin had not turned the 'ghostly white'. (When his skin was turned that color he was nicknamed 'The Ghost of Sparta' in the game's lore.)
Kratos earned this nickname when the ashes of his wife and child were bound to his skin turning it the signature color.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Pooh

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
In my opinion I think this is your real point but we don't have to use God of War and games like it to get there. Cory Barlog more than likely would have been a terrible director for a black fatherhood experience wherever it would have taken place, but he was a pretty good director for a child raising experience similar to his own. We don't have to tear down or lament other stories, just make sure we support others voiced when it's their turn.
True, but again I'm not trying to tear down God of War at all

Thread MIGHT have gone better had I just said that post though lol
 

Arkaign

Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,991
Boy, isn't this sort of stuff offensive?

Then again, I'm not white so I don't know.

The way I see it, is that if you write or day something specifically negative about a race or cultural/sexual/religious generalism, if you wouldn't feel comfortable with your own race in that spot, then it's probably an ignorant or offensive thing to be saying.

Tearing each other down or throwing blanket stereotypes around is cheap, and intellectually bankrupt. I think many lean on that kind of thing because it's easier than thinking about how diverse we all are even within various 'identifiers' in race/sex/religion/etc.

I try to be kind, listen more than I speak, and learn what I can. I don't have much time for hate or ignorance though. World's got enough problems without people feeding that wolf.
 

ReginaldXIV

Member
Nov 4, 2017
7,801
Minnesota
I'm not saying God of War shouldn't exist. By all accounts it's awesome. That's cool.

I'm not trying to take away your games, folks.

OK, at this point I think you're just saying stuff to say stuff... You brought up race in relation to fatherhood. You stated in the OP that God of War was a "white dad game" made for middle-aged white men. Many people are questioning why you think that, and also why you think that being a parent or having parents is so wildly different? But you keep double backing from that original statement or redirecting or diluting your statement so far to include every life experience. The original question is still: Why do you think the story of Kratos and Atreus is a "white dad game made for white middle-aged men?" How is this particular story not universal?
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,418
OP makes a good point. Gruff badass protects and teaches child is very much a tired concept in AAA. It's silly that people are arguing that this isn't a thing. Very few AAA games about mothers, for example.
 

BDubsLegend

Banned
Jan 24, 2018
1,027
Solid points. I think Kratos is voiced by 2 black men because of a few reasons, Racial background, Black guys typically having a deeper voice etc. I think saying that it's a expectations of violent and murderous men is really pulling at straws. And also I think if Cory Barlog was black a black man in the same situation who tried to reboot God of War it would still have been picked up because this theoretical black cory still has his legacy with the series behind him and an amazing game pitch. Now would black cory have ever gotten to that point.. Unlikely because of racist attitudes and less oppotunities way back when.
Lol so in the end he probably wouldn't have gotten the chance.
 

Zhukov

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
2,641
I mean The Last of Us is very much Ellie's story and not Joel's. At least, as someone who related to her, it felt that way to me.
That's hilariously incorrect.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ellie is a well realised character and her arc is very much relevant to the core of the game, but Joel's story is the focus.

There's a reason why the game starts with him and why the entire ending is wrapped around the decisions he makes while Ellie gets zero say in the matter.

Apparently the sequel will be more focused on Ellie. Looking forward to seeing how that turns out.

Ellie isn't red-headed.
Yes she is. She's even described as such a couple of times in the game.

It's just that she's realistically red-headed (as in somewhat reddish brown) rather than having cartoonish bright crimson hair.
 

dreamlongdead

Member
Nov 5, 2017
2,641
I think the main issue with the topic is the fact that dads are interjected into it.

Like if you ignored mentioning sad dads, you could have actually put greater focus on the actual lack of underrepresented voices in gaming. This is actually a true issue that needs to be solved, but correlating this with the games you mentioned just isn't the way to push the message.

I think any type of mature and progressive storytelling should be applauded regardless of the characters' skin color.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.