Hrmm! I thought maybe it was that PC game 'date my dad' or whatever
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All of these sad dad games illustrate how badly other voices are needed in the industry
- Thread starter Pooh
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Hrmm! I thought maybe it was that PC game 'date my dad' or whatever
I totally forgot that.
Man, it seems like a lifetime ago, but that's just because I actively try to erase any trace of it from the depths of my brain.
A game with a dad (or father figure) who is sad I guess.
A mom has another dynamic with her child than a dad. Dads are usually more emotionally detached than moms. Why do we have to always copy something anyways? Why not something original?
Everybody forgetting Horizon: Zero Dawn with Aloy and her 2 heroic moms and how she slowly puzzles together what became of them.
Diversity in games and movies is getting better. People are just expecting things to happen over night.
The Last of Us 2 seems to be in part about Ellies mom.
Everybody forgetting Horizon: Zero Dawn with Aloy and her 2 heroic moms and how she slowly puzzles together what became of them.
Diversity in games and movies is getting better. People are just expecting things to happen over night.
The Last of Us 2 seems to be in part about Ellies mom.
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It's not a thing, OP's hypothesis is a swing and a miss.
LOL did you really just type yesteryears?! Oh my god I just found a prime crystal clear example of privilege. The fact that with all the things that go on in society to this day in America and around the world you are allowed to think this would be a problem from the past is telling.
I think OP would have started a better discussion just by focusing on the need for increasing diversity in the stories and creators in the industry.
Out of tens of thousands of games annually, so few fit this narrow criteria (sad white dad) that it kind of makes an utter mess of the discussion rather than what it could have been.
Out of tens of thousands of games annually, so few fit this narrow criteria (sad white dad) that it kind of makes an utter mess of the discussion rather than what it could have been.
OP
OP
I brought up authorial background in relation to creation. Nowhere do I say that "only white people will like this" or "only white people will get this" or anything like it. I'm sure that story is universal, in the same way that anybody can like any story. I feel like I've said that multiple times at this point in the thread -- I am not critiquing God of War in particular. The reason why "life experience is important is because I'm talking about the AUTHOR'S perspective, not the audience's.
As I said in a previous post that is probably a lot more succinct than my OP: I want to see stuff like "Get Out" or "Black Panther" for videogames. How about "Wonder Woman?" or "Empire" , or "Raw" or "The Babadook"? Hell, "Lost In Translation" is kind of a sad dad story in a lot of ways but it's also a story from a woman's perspective.
Please tell me this is sarcasm. Targeted? There's a conspiracy out there to force people to play games where the main character is a sad?
Cory has openly talked about the inspiration for the new God of War being deeply personal. Sony did not force him to make a game about Kratos being a father. It's also one of the best games I've ever played, and I'm not even a father.
I'm not even white, and this shit is still offensive.
Like another poster said, I think that's starting to happen, it's just not going to happen all at once.
OP
OP
I sure hope so.
That was pretty much what I was focusing on already, but you're right that I didn't say it clearly. Honestly I came into this just doing stream of consciousness stuff so, you know. XD
I think that's a great point. If you are going to criticise a game then do so for what it is, not the sort of game you would have preferred it to be.
I like the 'sad dad' genre label! Did you make it up? Aside from that I think you've seen an inbalance of representation in games. If you'd like to comment that the industry should have more diverse staff because it could lead to more diverse stories - great! That's a totally valid point that I personally agree with. But I have to say you're guilty of making the same mistakes some of the less skilled writers at Polygon and Kotaku are more recently doing in their reviews, and that is blaming a single game (God of War) for not curing the ills of the industry by featuring the stories and characters that they would like to see.
Both God of War (2018) and Last of Us (2013) do share some 'sad dad' themes - it's not something I've seen many times before. But it's not logical to mark down a game with a Greek father and his son because there should be more games representing people from diverse backgrounds. Also Kratos may seem boring to you, but I know a few Greek people who are happy to finally see themselves represented in a franchise - albeit by a Greek maniacal antihero!
Is Caucasian not white? Asking seriously. I was under the impression "Caucasian" was the word used to reference white people when no specific country of origin is known?
You need to stretch super hard for TW3 than Bioshock.
Geralt was on a journey by himself to get Ciri back, but by that point where Ciri showed up, the story was close to an end with a few hours left of gameplay.
You didn't interact with Ciri for more than 1-2hrs on a few missions/flashbacks.
So back to the topic...How many white father+son/daughter games are even out there?
I can only think of TLoU and GOW where you actually are in control of both.
Yakuza is Japanese, but it is about the story not the gameplay...so that doesn't count.
Walking Dead is close, but he isn't white.
But reading some of the replies...Are we talking about just story in general or actually where the father+kid actually means something to the gameplay and story?
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I agree. We don't even know if sad dad games are the only consequence of that. You can say this problem go as far as almost all vg genres
I'd guess that is has more to do with cultural values surrounding masculinity and the limited ways in which men are supposed to validate their existence in any given story.
Horizon Zero Dawn is a AAA game with a story from a woman's perspective where women are the dominating force. It's kinda gaming's Wonder Woman.
Edith Finch is an indie that fits. Gone Home is another with a strong female perspective.
There aren't a lot but there are some.
Edith Finch is an indie that fits. Gone Home is another with a strong female perspective.
There aren't a lot but there are some.
Im black as the night and not a father and God of War is resonating with me in a special way. I would hate if opinions like OP had halted the storyline of this game, luckily most gamers don't care about anything but quality
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I was going to bring up FFXIII as a good mother figure game too! Not to discredit Pooh's point. Just interesting that FFXIII actually does have a some cool character dynamics you don't often see in video games.
Lightning and Serah (sisters but it's really a maternal bond). Vanille and Fang have that loving bond that to me always seemed less Hollywood and more realistic, like how love really is. You've got Snow who's come in to Serah and Lightning's tight family unit as an outsider. You've got Hope who is newly family-less and then Sazh who is the sad dad.
I never really thought about it before but that game is all about family. Shame the game is so dreadful because the story is pretty good.
That's great, I would love to play games like that in the AAA space and I believe everyone questioning you would also love that. That topic isn't the topic you started with though.
What are you driving for here?
I'm saying that I believe in todays society that a Black guy with Cory's legacy could get God of War made but given the cultural shift if the past 5-10 years he would have had less oppotunities to be at his level in the industry as a black man. I'm not being dismissive of racial problems in society or the industry today or ignoring inhernet white privilage in white dominated cultures. If you want to push some different view of my own words then feel free.
Man, we are just drowning in these "sad dad" games
So many that I can count them with one hand and some of them are questionable at best
1) Last of Us
2) God of War
3) The Walking dead (but I dunno if Lee is SADDAD TM because he is black)
4) Bioshock infinite?
5)Yakuza series (but does that count because they are Japanese?)
And thats it.
Woe be that these 5 games in the slew of games released indicate a giant problem in the industry.
So many that I can count them with one hand and some of them are questionable at best
1) Last of Us
2) God of War
3) The Walking dead (but I dunno if Lee is SADDAD TM because he is black)
4) Bioshock infinite?
5)Yakuza series (but does that count because they are Japanese?)
And thats it.
Woe be that these 5 games in the slew of games released indicate a giant problem in the industry.
I don't know either so I checked Wiki. Yeah, I think Caucasian is white? At least in terms of being originated from northern Europe. I don't think Kratos is caucasian though, he looks a bit more middle-eastern.
OP
OP
I mean... they go to a lot of trouble to show you that Geralt essentially raises Ciri and that he thinks of her as a daughter. Then your entire quest is trying to track her down to protect her, all while the people you come across constantly tell you they know how important Ciri is to you. Then the ending, which has even more father/daughter tones (depending on the ending I suppose). Meanwhile Geralt is racked with guilt and concern and so on about her.
It's very much a sad dad game.
Also I intentionally took the "white dad" part out of the OP because it was a mistaken conflation of two issues I was trying to address that aren't the same thing.
I get that people THINK that but I'm really not talking about God of War in particular at all. I've said multiple times in this thread, I'm not saying God of War shouldn't have been made, or should've been made differently, or that it's a travesty or whatever. It DOES remind me, along with other games and media, that I'm seeing a LOT of this trope and the sameyness of it all is making me want more voices and authors from different backgrounds to give variety.
Right? I'm not a father, I'm not white, and this game managed to strike such a chord with me. Trying to brand this as a "white male fantasy" is what strikes me as racist in the worst possible way. As though fatherhood is something only white men can identify with.
OP
OP
Again I'm not saying God of War shouldn't exist or even be different
You guys keep stretching for this but it has nothing to do with what I posted
This is actually ridiculous. "Sad dad" games make up significantly less than 1% of the gaming market. We definitely need some new voices in the industry, but this is a silly way to make that point.
Not to mention there are a ton of games from perspectives other than white males. Like, a lot. But we should definitely welcome more!
Also, TLOU and GOW are two of the best games of all time, so if it takes a sad dad to make that happen, so be it!
Not to mention there are a ton of games from perspectives other than white males. Like, a lot. But we should definitely welcome more!
Also, TLOU and GOW are two of the best games of all time, so if it takes a sad dad to make that happen, so be it!
Yeah, I think OP's getting their wires crossed a little.
Hopefully we get some more sad mum stories.
Or maybe even happy parents stories? Not enough stories about happy families nowadays IMO
Same boat.
I guess my enjoyment of sad dad games is invalidated because I am not white.
Having not played any of the uncharted series, were either of the two main characters in the DLC flawed in anyway? I think this topic is way more interesting to discuss than the OPs. (Sorry OP)
OP
OP
Non parental white male heroes in games this gen.
Zelda BotW
Mario Odyssey
Xenoblade
Devil May Cry
Persona
Witcher
GTA
Uncharted
Shadow of the Colossus
Titanfall
Call of Duty
Battlefield
Final Fantasy
Dragon Age Inquisition
Dishonoured
Nioh
Batman
Wolfenstein
Resident Evil
Doom
Yakuza
Destiny
Skyrim
Assassin's Creed
Far Cry
Darksiders
Watchdogs
Disgaea
InFamous
Shadow of Mordor
Mad Max
Prey
Dying Light
Duke Nukem
Hitman
Sniper Elite
The Evil Within
Deus Ex
Killzone
Dead Nation
Dying Light
Quantum Break
Ryse
The Order 1886
Just Cause
Ghost Recon
Lords of the Fallen
And way more.
If we're to be reductive, sad dad's are still an extreme minority in the grand scheme of things.
Zelda BotW
Mario Odyssey
Xenoblade
Devil May Cry
Persona
Witcher
GTA
Uncharted
Shadow of the Colossus
Titanfall
Call of Duty
Battlefield
Final Fantasy
Dragon Age Inquisition
Dishonoured
Nioh
Batman
Wolfenstein
Resident Evil
Doom
Yakuza
Destiny
Skyrim
Assassin's Creed
Far Cry
Darksiders
Watchdogs
Disgaea
InFamous
Shadow of Mordor
Mad Max
Prey
Dying Light
Duke Nukem
Hitman
Sniper Elite
The Evil Within
Deus Ex
Killzone
Dead Nation
Dying Light
Quantum Break
Ryse
The Order 1886
Just Cause
Ghost Recon
Lords of the Fallen
And way more.
If we're to be reductive, sad dad's are still an extreme minority in the grand scheme of things.
If you didn't time the creation of this topic at the release of God of War, or that you didn't make the topic about themes particular to God of War, you'd have a more level-headed discussion. Since that isn't the case, you'd have to understand that the discussion at this point would always gravitate towards it.
Plus those games released years apart. It's such an odd complaint.
If we added Mad Dad games, we'd get a lot more. We'd be able to include all the god of war games for example.
I did.
Your entire argument is inherently flawed based on the idea you claim these games are marketed to a white audience. The concept of fatherhood is not exclusive to white people and because a game creator or writer is white, doesn't mean they are incapable of creating a story that resonates with people of different races, because the reach of fatherhood is broad.
D
I guess I just don't feel there has been a cultural shift on such a scale that now would be much different than 10 years ago. Sure public attitudes have changed, common courtesy, but not a lot of the systemic oppressive racism has changed. It'd the ugly underbelly of racism that doesn't kill anyone but stops people from having the opportunity that others may have. But that's my opinion. I don't think a black man would be able to think things have changed for the significantly better in today's society.
We read the OP, that should be enough.
Words have meaning and if you think that your OP doesn't convey your intention well enough feel free to change that.
OP
OP
Can't comment on all of them as I haven't played them all but The Witcher 3 and Dishonored (2 at least from Corvo's perspective) are absolutely sad dad games. SotC is not "this gen" except in the weakest sense.
It's a new rule, you have to read all 7 pages before you post apparently.
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