increasingly released in the last 5 years.
Okaaaaay, say we replace the white guys with black guys. Do these black guys suddenly stop doing 60 hour crunch weeks?... who said it did?
I said:
- Majority of western devs, including leads, are white, and majority are dudes
- Major problem in western game dev (can't speak to others) is the crazy amount of time spent away from family doing 60 hour crunch weeks and so on (side note: this is also a big reason why people burn out and leave the industry early, so they can have sane hours and a family and actually see them).
I'm basing it on my personal experiences in the game industry. It's pretty well known that crunch, long hours, and a ton of time spent away from family are critical issues.
Can't believe I'm seeing a literal "starving children in Africa" whataboutism here.
Don't do this. If you aren't interested in discussing representation, then don't post in here, but media representation is influential on culture and is a topic worth discussing, appealing to worse problems is a textbook fallacy.
No, my argument is that the stories are crafted with intent to be palatable to white players. It's basic logic. That doesn't preclude black players.
*Tidus Laugh.wav*I thought GoW was praised because it was the first "sad dad" game ever released? I can't think of any others.
Then you look at Black Panther and you see that when you get black authors and leave them absolutely free to create escapist fiction with a black audience in mind oddly they don't create 12 Years A Slave but they create something that is joyful, proud and entertaining and that doesn't hammer the audience with the idea that their race is about struggle and discrimination but they can enjoy their fiction and heroes as something they can share with their own kids without having to do any "speech".
OK, so start from Square 1. I doubt a team of African-American or Hispanic developers, when wanting to tell "their story," think up The Last of Us as we got it in the first place. If your square 1 is "The Last of Us, white middle aged guy, white daughter-stand-in, general North American apocalyptic city OK GO" then yeah, maybe the story wouldn't end up so different.Do you feel like we are that much more different than you are? I am a Hispanic person and this post is confusing since I don't think The Last of Us would be any different if Joel was African-American or if Ellie was Hispanic.
Maybe! That would be really cool!Do you mean if the game took place in a different part of the world and was inspired and had references to Hispanic culture?
I did play VA-11 Hall-A, and loved it! It's also an indie game. I play a ton of indie games, and they're great. But I'd love to see a AAA game from that perspective.If you want to find out what some of these games are like, why don't you play games made by Hispanic and African-American devs? VA-11 Hall-A was made by a Venezuelan team if you want to try that. I enjoyed it but it's a visual novel so it's not for everyone.
Wait, that shade of what I always thought to be brown counts as red hair???
Of course she is. Her hair is pure auburn. She even has freckles.
I am actually offended by the anti- white racist shit in this thread. "Dad" games should be universal, not "digestible" for certain people. We should all take offense with some of the comments in this thread. At Era, this stuff should not be tolerated.
I would so love it for you to point me to examples for your so called "forced diversity". Also this is a videogame forum so I'm not sure why this wouldn't be the place to critically evaluate the media we consume (videogames in this case). And are the videogame industry or the movie industry not part of society? Do you not believe that consumer feedback has anything to do with what companies do and how they act? And somehow posting in a discussion about this means you can't do something about those issues irl as well? I'm thoroughly confused by your posts here.What you are reducing as children in africa whataboutims is my opinion on this topic and I have every right to express it as you do.
It's through political actions and social actions that reduce discriminations that you will get a better representation as a natural result.
Forcing reprensation or imposing those topics on entertainment are both a sterile way to change deeper problems and detrimental to the quality of those products.
Did you watch Black Panther? Like that shit literally starts out in the hood. Then they go to Africa and play out a scenario similar to the terrorism happening in Nigeria. The main antagonist wants to
Liberate oppressed black people
??
Of course she is. Her hair is pure auburn. She even has freckles.
Yeah, maybe. I dunno, it's a discussion forum and I wanted to discuss. I'm not getting a grade on this, lol.This should be your OP. So many people are confused or argumentative because your OP really doesn't reflect this thought, that life experience informs how your express yourself in a story.
How exactly are they more "palatable" to white players than black players? Really, you made the op, you made that big statement, but there's nothing coming from you to give this any substance. What makes being a dad and being sad so "white" to you?
Yeah, I get you want more games from minorities, and you expect them to be vastly different from games you get now, because... reasons. Or something.
I mean, yeah, that's a good opinion to have and a good thing to want, but the OP is just... what?
Then you look at Black Panther and you see that when you get black authors and leave them absolutely free to create escapist fiction with a black audience in mind oddly they don't create 12 Years A Slave but they create something that is joyful, proud and entertaining and that doesn't hammer the audience with the idea that their race is about struggle and discrimination but they can enjoy their fiction and heroes as something they can share with their own kids without having to do any "speech".
OK, so start from Square 1. I doubt a team of African-American or Hispanic developers, when wanting to tell "their story," think up The Last of Us as we got it in the first place. If your square 1 is "The Last of Us, white middle aged guy, white daughter-stand-in, general North American apocalyptic city OK GO" then yeah, maybe the story wouldn't end up so different.
Maybe! That would be really cool!
I did play VA-11 Hall-A, and loved it! It's also an indie game. I play a ton of indie games, and they're great. But I'd love to see a AAA game from that perspective.
...Yes. That is very clearly natural dark red/auburn hair. Not all redheads are like Carrot Top. ;)
What you are doing is attempting to shut down discussion. So, please, don't do that.What you are reducing as children in africa whataboutims is my opinion on this topic and I have every right to express it as you do.
"Forcing representation"? What? And adding minorities/women PoV in media is "detrimental to their quality"?It's through political actions and social actions that reduce discriminations that you will get a better representation as a natural result.
Forcing reprensation or imposing those topics on entertainment are both a sterile way to change deeper problems and detrimental to the quality of those products.
TL;DRThat's not what I said. There's absolutely black themes in the movie (heck, there's ONLY black themes in the movie, more or less), but the angle is different from what white people generally expect a "black movie" to be. It's not a revenge fantasy like Django Unchained, for example; it's a movie about black people, not black people suffering under white people. Which doesn't mean it's dismissive of those themes.
"I need to get clicks. Best way to do that is to write a garbage race bait article.... but what nonsense will sound enlightened and cover up my sheer idiocy? I need something that Provides a ridiculous premise that provokes the perpetually self described 'woke'. Got it...". - Author of OPs article
OK, so start from Square 1. I doubt a team of African-American or Hispanic developers, when wanting to tell "their story," think up The Last of Us as we got it in the first place. If your square 1 is "The Last of Us, white middle aged guy, white daughter-stand-in, general North American apocalyptic city OK GO" then yeah, maybe the story wouldn't end up so different.
OP, you're right. Ignore the obviously fragile white men posting who feel personally attacked. They are totally trying to derail the thread.
Though I'd say its still just the classic white dude protag problem, which is nothing new in itself, but with a new twist on it. So the more things change the more they stay the same.
edit:
Case in point
.
Like how the fuck was the movie not about black people and black themes?
That's not what I said. There's absolutely black themes in the movie (heck, there's ONLY black themes in the movie, more or less), but the angle is different from what white people generally expect a "black movie" to be. It's not a revenge fantasy like Django Unchained, for example; it's a movie about black people, not black people suffering under white people. Which doesn't mean it's dismissive of those themes.
Well, consider me educated. I come from a place where every one has black hair so hair colors like auburn were never in my vocabulary.
OP, you're right. Ignore the obviously fragile white men posting who feel personally attacked. They are totally trying to derail the thread.
Though I'd say its still just the classic white dude protag problem, which is nothing new in itself, but with a new twist on it. So the more things change the more they stay the same.
edit:
Case in point
My life as a white person is different in countless ways from a black or hispanic person in this country.I'm generally curious why you believe you're so much different than a black middle aged man, or a Hispanic middle aged man, etc?
This thread was a mistake. Op used the familiar rallying cry of this is for "white males" when nothing in the context of the game would make the experience any different regardless of your skin color. We need better representation in culture in general but thus was not a good example of needing change, especially in a high fantasy setting that doesn't even reflect the real world. Now the white man does have built in privilege and access a black man does not, I mean for a realistic example if a black man was in the exact same situation Cory Barlog was in could he even get this game made when it was so close to being put on the shelf? Back to the game, if this was a story about raising a child on earth or in a setting that reflected real life OP would have a leg to stand on. Often I see a lot of effort being put into "helping" or "understanding" minorities on the internet but it often is directed at superficial issues. As many have already said, changing the race of Kratos should have no effect on the story they are trying to tell. If anything why does a character based in rage, murder and destruction get voiced by a black man in two separate instances. Maybe that says something about expectations of what a violent, murderous man sounds like.
I don't think he meant for them to make games only about racial issues, but rather their cultural differences would bring different perspectives to the drawing board.Why can't they make a game like that? Do non-white developers only have to make games about racial issues? I'm generally curious why you believe you're so much different than a black middle aged man, or a Hispanic middle aged man, etc?
I think this gets filed under the "black and white aren't actually races" complication.You said "Kratos isn't white". Well....he is. Greek people come under "Caucasian" no?
Haha yeah dude I'm totally race baiting and I'm trying to sound smart to prove something to a gaming forum, oh and also yeah gotta get those clicks for a forum website I have absolutely no financial interest in
Totally
As a non-American, Black Panther is really weird movie for me. I'm like, "guys, you're not Black Americans, you're Africans. The only thing you have in common is your skin color; Wakanda couldn't be any more culturally different. Why are you prioritizing issues in a 1st world country when there are literal genocide happening on your neighboring countries." I'd personally love to see an African's take on Black Panther.That's not what I said. There's absolutely black themes in the movie (heck, there's ONLY black themes in the movie, more or less), but the angle is different from what white people generally expect a "black movie" to be. It's not a revenge fantasy like Django Unchained, for example; it's a movie about black people, not black people suffering under white people. Which doesn't mean it's dismissive of those themes.
Looking through, and this thread is kind of backfirey, but probably not backfirey enough based on the ridiculousness of the premise. Is there some kind of competition in which we go to any length to try to sound as woke as possible in ever possible situation?
God of War
The Last of Us... kinda?
And just about everything else mentioned is a massive stretch imo.
Honestly, I thought you copied that from somewhere. Now that I know you actually somehow came up with that, you should submit it because there's are some places who would totally post it with a fan base that would buy into that absurd premise.
Totally!
Honestly, I thought you copied that from somewhere. Now that I know you actually somehow came up with that, you should submit it because there's are some places who would totally post it with a fan base that would buy into that absurd premise.
Totally!
Should be ban worthy tbh. Apparently I am a fragile white guy. I'll tell that to my black mom, born and raised in rough af Pontiac, MI.So everyone who doesn't agree is a fragile white man? Why the fuck is posting like this still tollerated? It's dismissive, assumptious, offending and add's nothing but to create an echo chamber of self congratulatory superiority.
But I'm not saying, "God of War, but Kratos is black."
I'm saying, "[insert game here created by minority voices]"
Damn, and Atreus came out looking like Logic
Hmm, I guess you're right. I forgot about all those details. The story was so throwaway that I probably just wiped it from memory and focused on shooting Locust. xD
Haha go ahead and make that cash bro, I totally give you permission, make that bank dude, totally
My life as a white person is different in countless ways from a black or hispanic person in this country.