The way I see it, we need everyone at the frontlines. We cannot have 4 more years of Trump. Everyone will be so god damn screwed if he gets another SCOTUS nom.
After that sure lets work out what we really need.
Also a lot of people were massively uncomfortable with the whole Je Suis Charlie thing to boot
Would the world be a better place if Milano disappears and holes up in her home doing nothing for the rest of her life?
No it shouldn't. I also have faith that she is a really good person. Its just wild to me that anyone would turn face after such a benign criticism. Not saying she has but like I mentioned earlier she has already shifted from a "we" attitude to a "they" attitude in her language. If when push comes to shove someone tucks tail, especially over something like a Twitter beef, I wouldn't put too much faith in her.Based on everything she's done in her life, yeah this is the type of person I want to have my back. That all shouldn't be negated by a well meaning tweet that people took too literally.
The way I see it, we need everyone at the frontlines. We cannot have 4 more years of Trump. Everyone will be so god damn screwed if he gets another SCOTUS nom.
After that sure lets work out what we really need.
I imagine her teetering on the edge of a canyon with a ton of hands trying to pull her back or push her over while the people she was talking about are just falling into it.
Stop holding Trump above the heads of minorities like a cane.The way I see it, we need everyone at the frontlines. We cannot have 4 more years of Trump. Everyone will be so god damn screwed if he gets another SCOTUS nom.
After that sure lets work out what we really need.
Has she done that? Her tweet literally says 'we' and talks about the left eating their own, which implies that we're all on the left. The only tweet where she has a "they" attitude is where she's addressing people who have responded negatively to her. It would make no sense for that to be a "we" style tweet since she's not against her own words.No it shouldn't. I also have faith that she is a really good person. Its just wild to me that anyone would turn face after such a benign criticism. Not saying she has but like I mentioned earlier she has already shifted from a "we" attitude to a "they" attitude in her language. If when push comes to shove someone tucks tail, especially over something like a Twitter beef, I wouldn't put too much faith in her.
Hopefully it blows over and she continues to do good things. I believe she will. But there are too many people in this world that when push comes to shove, will take the path of least resistance.
If we aren't nice to racists they'll become even more racist and it'll be all our fault.I'm not convinced that criticizing Milano here has anything to do with the election of Trump. Can you elaborate?
You answered your own question. "They" were only the people who disagreed with her. "They" happen to be minorities. I know all minorities are not a monolith and those people did not speak for all minorities but she showed horrible listening skills. "I'm for everyone who agrees with me" isn't the best stance to take when challenged about something as simple as a use of language.Has she done that? Her tweet literally says 'we' and talks about the left eating their own, which implies that we're all on the left. The only tweet where she has a "they" attitude is where she's addressing people who have responded negatively to her. It would make no sense for that to be a "we" style tweet since she's not against her own words.
You're completely ignoring the context of her tweets when viewed this way. She definitely did not say that she's longer longer for people that disagree with her, but she can't refer to them with "we" language because that would make no sense. In that particular context she's not in said group (group of people that are offended by what she said) She returned to using "we" language when it was appropriate.You answered your own question. "They" were only the people who disagreed with her. "They" happen to be minorities. I know all minorities are not a monolith and those people did not speak for all minorities but she showed horrible listening skills. "I'm for everyone who agrees with me" isn't the best stance to take when challenged about something as simple as a use of language.
How can you do progressive work for over 30 years and be in your feelings that much over this?She sounds pretty hurt tbh, from her perspective I get it. She just seems to have a hard time accepting other people's perspective of her.
It was the juxtaposition of her initial post to her non apology I found interesting.You're completely ignoring the context of her tweets when viewed this way. She definitely did not say that she's longer longer for people that disagree with her, but she can't refer to them with "we" language because that would make no sense. In that particular context she's not in said group (group of people that are offended by what she said) She returned to using "we" language when it was appropriate.
How can you do progressive work for over 30 years and be in your feelings that much over this?
How can you do progressive work for over 30 years and be in your feelings that much over this?
Is she being crucified or are a bunch of people just reacting to a dumb tweet?Because with everything she's done for the cause, to get crucified over a badly worded tweet justifiably makes her pissed off. It's just a tweet and the intent was obvious, I don't really blame her to tell the people who are now calling her a fraud to fuck off.
If people are super sensitive about the wording people use when tweeting support, they should be equally sensitive when being critical of said support.
Is she being crucified or are a bunch of people just reacting to a dumb tweet?
Even in this thread I've been accused of trying to make her into an enemy even after saying I'm not cancelling her nor even demanding an apology. I also said she's not the real problem. Apparently no one's hearing me because I'm not groveling to her?
So again I ask who's really outraged? Who's really falling for alt-right tactics? People who disagree with dumb tweet, or people characterizing that disagreement as liberal outrage and an attempt to ruin this wholesome woman???
Cricified is probably too harsh of a word, but she's certainly having her intentions questioned based on a well meaning tweet that some people didn't like the wording of. Then you have people who are claiming she's a bad person for not just apologizing and "listening" to people.Is she being crucified or are a bunch of people just reacting to a dumb tweet?
Even in this thread I've been accused of trying to make her into an enemy even after saying I'm not cancelling her nor even demanding an apology. I also said she's not the real problem. Apparently no one's hearing me because I'm not groveling to her?
So again I ask who's really outraged? Who's really falling for alt-right tactics? People who disagree with dumb tweet, or people characterizing that disagreement as liberal outrage and an attempt to ruin this wholesome woman???
There are people in this very thread saying she was "never really an ally", I can only assume a decent percentage of people on Twitter are saying the same or worse. If I'm an activist for 30 years and someone says that to me over a tweet, I'd be fucking furious. The idea that she's not entitled to be furious because she's white and rich or whatever doesn't make any sense, she's still a person.
Sure, maybe most of the people reacting to the tweet are being rational (though I kind of doubt that), but even if its just 15% of the responses straight up demonizing her, that's enough to make anyone feel alienated. The most vocal ones drown out the rest.
Pretty much. People were asking why that trans thread was so empty compared to others? This right here is why.This is why I choose to say nothing 99% of the time rather than advocating. You can say the most well meaning thing and some clowns are still going to take it the wrong way. Keep fighting the good fight, y'all
Cricified is probably too harsh of a word, but she's certainly having her intentions questioned based on a well meaning tweet that some people didn't like the wording of. Then you have people who are claiming she's a bad person for not just apologizing and "listening" to people.
It's really frustrating that a cishet white woman used language that's harmful to...well everybody and now the concern is over whether or not people were too mean to her.
And what gets muddied is that for those affected, trans folk and people with disabilities, language is relatively significant for them and now the harm that Milano has caused is obscured because she has victimized herself for fucking up.
Pretty much. People were asking why that trans thread was so empty compared to others? This right here is why.
Yeah, shit like this. I'm supposed to advocate for people that will throw me under the bus at the smallest perceived slight? Not worth it.
Pretty much. People were asking why that trans thread was so empty compared to others? This right here is why.
Yeah, shit like this. I'm supposed to advocate for people that will throw me under the bus at the smallest perceived slight? Not worth it.
And that's the kicker, she's not even disagreeing with the people who criticized her! Heck, I think most people would prefer she did that. That would definitely be a more interesting conversation, at least.
What she's doing here is attempting to use her "years of advocacy" as a shield against the very idea that she could be criticized. And that's what's pissing people off. Apparently, to Alyssa, this isn't a dialogue about language allies should or shouldn't use with the minorities they're allied with. To her it's a farce because look at all she's done for us!
Then you shouldn't be so dismissive of other people's fights just because you personally don't see the importance. Imagine knowing that struggle yourself and still being unable to actually be an ally.
You shouldn't need to be personally offended by something in order to denounce it.
I am not always personally hurt by transphobic language but that doesn't mean I don't support trans people when they ask for a modicum of respect. If you need to personally see the harm in something in order to denounce it, you're always going to be the shitty dude off to the side asking people to debate you in order to justify their request for equality.
It's really not that difficult to just listen to people who have different experiences from you, and yet here we are.
Yeah, shit like this. I'm supposed to advocate for people that will throw me under the bus as the smallest perceived slight? Not worth it.
Pretty much. People were asking why that trans thread was so empty compared to others? This right here is why.
Yes, that thread. Most of us knew why it wasn't reply-heavy, for the reason you stated. And yet, the forum was being admonished for not "caring" enough. That's the kind of attitude that's going to drive people away.Do you mean the thread about the trans military ban that the Trump administration is trying to push through despite injunctions in place to stop it? Like, that's a pretty clear cut thread on how wrong it is and even if you're ignorant on all the details of transition related costs as well as the history of the ban, it should still be pretty easy to condemn that easy enough since they're trying to bypass legal protections and the courts.
These kind of comments are always really baffling to me though. You're biggest concern when it comes to that thread on a ban fueled by bigotry is that someone might call you out or correct you in some way, while we have to deal with the realities of an administration that's actively trying to take rights away from minorities at every turn. It just comes off as so petty that you won't voice support for a group that needs it because someone was mean to someone else in a completely unrelated thing.
If you want to be a good ally, then you have to recognize that you're going to make mistakes. You will. And that's okay. It's all about how you act afterwards that matters. Don't be dismissive towards the very real issues that minorities face, and try and understand why people might get frustrated in those threads when we're discussing them. For you, it's just some random topic, but for us, these are our lives and it it's vitally important that you recognize this and just continue to show support how you can. These communities do need it.
I mean, you do you. Just don't cry when you look around and you have no allies left.You'll be sorely missed. Change will never come because you've decided to opt out. We should really reconsider...*checks notes* asking you to be a bit more considerate in your language.
Well to be honest, if you try to be an ally sometimes you need to take and endure some shit.
If not, if your beliefs system is so fragile then you are a hipocrite ( no speaking about you directly)
Everyone is an ally while everything is honky dory, but if shit gets rough then they throw that shit at your face, some allies they are.
Well that's one way to do it I guessyep, this is why i was honest and never even pretended i was an ally in the first place
Yes, that thread. Most of us knew why it wasn't reply-heavy, for the reason you stated. And yet, the forum was being admonished for not "caring" enough. That's the kind of attitude that's going to drive people away.
I mean, you do you. Just don't cry when you look around and you have no allies left.
Well to be honest, if you try to be an ally sometimes you need to take and endure some shit.
If not, if your beliefs system is so fragile then you are a hypocrite ( no speaking about you directly)
Everyone is an ally while everything is honky dory, but if shit gets rough then they throw that shit at your face, some allies they are.
Lmao spidermanspointingfingers.gifThis is pointlessly combative and hostile and really serves no one.
No one is talking about not having principles (thanks for that insult, btw), but what you're proposing is wanting people to go to war when the front line is openly admitting you're probably going to get shot. You're going to find a lot less people are willing to volunteer for that.There's nothing admirable nor desirable about only having principles when it's convenient for you. Like i said, you will be sorely missed.
I wont agree that she should apologize but yes, she should listen. However listen doesn't mean agree unequivocally with what is being said. Listening to people doesn't mean that they're right about everything.Because she should apologize and listen to people. Again, this isn't some masked crusade by the alt-right. She's being criticized by the very people she's claiming to be allied with, she SHOULD listen, even if she doesn't agree. Full stop.
Responding by lecturing those people on how they're helping the right, eating their own, or reminding us of all she's done (as though the only reason we could be critical is because we don't know this) was dismissive and incorrect.
Not is this a coordinated attack or smear. Milano is a celebrity with a huge public platform, and she used that platform to say something public and something many people considered dumb.
Lmao spidermanspointingfingers.gif
You should be banned while while ago , but here we are.
No one is talking about not having principles (thanks for that insult, btw), but what you're proposing is wanting people to go to war when the front like is openly admitting you're probably going to get shot. You're going to find a lot less people are willing to volunteer for that.
Keep saying this to everyone and you're gonna be fighting a lonely fight.
Yes, that thread. Most of us knew why it wasn't reply-heavy, for the reason you stated. And yet, the forum was being admonished for not "caring" enough. That's the kind of attitude that's going to drive people away..
This is pointlessly combative and hostile and really serves no one.