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AMD: Statement about the theft of some test files related to a subset of current and future GPUs
- Thread starter kostacurtas
- Start date
Just for information, the hacker has said that he/she isnt asking for $100 million dollars:
"also not asking for 100m$. if AMD or anyone who wants to settle it down with me for money contact:"
github.com
"also not asking for 100m$. if AMD or anyone who wants to settle it down with me for money contact:"
xxXsoullessXxx/GPU-hardware-source-pt.2
Contribute to xxXsoullessXxx/GPU-hardware-source-pt.2 development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com
What is the hacker asking for?Just for information, the hacker has said that he/she isnt asking for $100 million dollars:
"also not asking for 100m$. if AMD or anyone who wants to settle it down with me for money contact:"
xxXsoullessXxx/GPU-hardware-source-pt.2
Contribute to xxXsoullessXxx/GPU-hardware-source-pt.2 development by creating an account on GitHub.
A little r.e.s.p.e.c.t.?
Just for information, the hacker has said that he/she isnt asking for $100 million dollars:
"also not asking for 100m$. if AMD or anyone who wants to settle it down with me for money contact:"
xxXsoullessXxx/GPU-hardware-source-pt.2
Contribute to xxXsoullessXxx/GPU-hardware-source-pt.2 development by creating an account on GitHub.
If the hacker leaks this information, what can actually be done with it? Please forgive my ignorance
All their specialization in code. That's what makes Xbox a Xbox. All work from their engineers to optimize their systems to work with GPU pipeline , things you saw such as DirectML, Ray traying etc. Driver code on top of AMD GPU basically. Not fully sure what could be done if it includes documentation along with it it could be used for security breach and obviously if it leaks to web competitors such as ARM, NVIDIA etc may copy some of design decisions related to their ASICs.
We don't know what it contains
Cool. My mind is being blown right now. I have always thought of PC parts and consoles as just the physical things that programs are run on. Like, I have GFX card "y", it can process game code as speed "x". I'm not quite wrapping my head around it. But that is probably not a discussion for this thread. Any reading suggestions to help elucidate this subject?
OP
OP
Obviously we don't know exactly what data was stolen.
According to the official statement from AMD was test results from current and future GPUs.
The first leaked batch from the theft has test results from the arden chip (Xbox Series X GPU), from GPUs that using the Navi 10 chip (AMD RX 5xxx PC cards) and from future GPUs that will use the Navi 21 chip (AMD RDNA 2 PC cards).
I know a guy named Jensen that could be interested for the last test results.
According to the official statement from AMD was test results from current and future GPUs.
The first leaked batch from the theft has test results from the arden chip (Xbox Series X GPU), from GPUs that using the Navi 10 chip (AMD RX 5xxx PC cards) and from future GPUs that will use the Navi 21 chip (AMD RDNA 2 PC cards).
I know a guy named Jensen that could be interested for the last test results.
I mean as people like to say consoles are just PCs nowadays that's not entirely true. Consoles are still embedded devices that operate in some heat/sound/space constraints along with their specialized OSes and duration of usage.
Obviously their parts are part of APU ( all processing parts are integrated and working efficiently with one and another) Unlike a PC where all parts are separate and modular.
This is what console "magic" is basically. Super optimized pipelines that helps devices to work efficiently during 7-8 year life time.
Dumbass hackers.
If the source code was useful they would keep it a secret and search for vulnerabilities.
If the source code was useful they would keep it a secret and search for vulnerabilities.
Hardware is made by writing Verilog/VHDL code these days. Think about it like a text representation of all the wires and gates. The actual layout of the wires in the chip based on this is then later done either by hand or by an automated process.
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Is this pure speculation from you guys' part?
I mean this is insane if true? Does this strain Sony, MS relation with AMD?
some is true, some of it is speculation. the github leak did have the ps5 gpu test results. and there was definitely a leak in jan 2019 that first mentioned the ps5 being an 8 tflops gpu which lines up with the tests in the github leak's ariel folder.
you will have to ask klobree and hmqqq where they got the information that ps5 was not as powerful as the xbox way back in april. you wont get much out of penello but you can go through his post history and you will see how he was predicting a $399 8 tflops ps5 all year last year. way before the github leaks went public.
i wouldnt be surprised if sony used this to get a discount regardless of whether or not ms knew about it before 2019. the tests were real, and they were allowed to be accessed by an intern and compiled them alongside info from MS chips which means the teams werent segregated like they should be.
If the claims are correct and the hacker does indeed have all the APU code and all that, it is a half big deal. One for security reasons, the other because it enables hacking way easier.
I don't think any other company could ever even peak at the code without being sued to hell and back. But I don't know what the specific laws are on stuff like this.
I don't think any other company could ever even peak at the code without being sued to hell and back. But I don't know what the specific laws are on stuff like this.
It's Verilog Hardware Description Language, a syntatical representation of boolean logic that dictates transistor layout in chipsets. It's an actual source code that looks like this:
Code:
library ieee;
use ieee.std_logic_1164.all;
use ieee.numeric_std.all;
entity half_adder is
port (
i_bit1 : in std_logic;
i_bit2 : in std_logic;
--
o_sum : out std_logic;
o_carry : out std_logic
);
end half_adder;
architecture rtl of half_adder is
begin
o_sum <= i_bit1 xor i_bit2;
o_carry <= i_bit1 and i_bit2;
end rtl;The above is the VHDL code for a half-adder circuit. The above source code describes the following logic circuit, which performs 2-bit addition:
VHDL are what is used to frabricate chips. FPGA cores, for example, which are processors that can "change shape" into other processors, use VHDL source codes to "change."
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It's Verilog Hardware Description Language, a syntatical representation of boolean logic that dictates transistor layout in chipsets. It's an actual source code that looks like this:
Code:library ieee; use ieee.std_logic_1164.all; use ieee.numeric_std.all; entity half_adder is port ( i_bit1 : in std_logic; i_bit2 : in std_logic; -- o_sum : out std_logic; o_carry : out std_logic ); end half_adder; architecture rtl of half_adder is begin o_sum <= i_bit1 xor i_bit2; o_carry <= i_bit1 and i_bit2; end rtl;
The above is the VHDL code for a half-adder circuit. The above source code describes the following logic circuit, which performs 2-bit addition:
VHDL are what is used to frabricate chips. FPGA cores, for example, which are processors that can "change shape" into other processors, use VHDL source codes to "change."
You're consistently one of my favorite posters on Reset.
Nothing directly, even harder without the documentation. However it can be used to give insight into how modern GPUs are made and the tricks there in. Also AMD specific tricks.
Verilog which is an HDL (Hardware Description Language). Makes making hardware easier, testable, verifiable, etc... Also soft-core which is a digital representation on an emulator all the way down to an FPGA. As for what hackers can do, other than better understanding how it's made and AMD Magic. A very big issue is security vulnerabilities exploits found from this leak.
Yes it could result in jailbreaking the consoles if it's a hardware exploit/non-patchable.
I'm not 100% sure what is being implied here, so forgive if the comment is a non-sequitur.
I think I've posted this before, but in my time with Xbox I was never exposed to a direct leak from either a developer or AMD about the competitions plans. People in a position to know things at this level of detail are all professionals and have business relationships with both companies that have persisted, at this point, for decades. Nobody with influence is interested in being the giver, or receiver, of this type of information. A big part of the reason these consoles are getting more homogeneous is because developers give similar feedback. And when one platform deviates too far, developers tend to push back to get things more inline.
Obviously, both companies talk with Developers and suppliers, understand what's available from a SOC perspective and what are bottlenecks for games. Some things (like SSD's) were basically inevitable for both consoles given that data transfer speeds were gating CPU and GPU even late in the current gen. There is nothing that required "leaks" to assume SSD would be a big player (you probably saw tweets from several prominent Xbox employees talking about SSD testing back in like 2014/2015)
Therefore - it's not hard to speculate or have some sort of theory about what the competition might do when you've been doing this for a while. Not due to leaks but simply by understanding what technology is available and at what price points. When you go through a process to decide your plan, you also put together game theory on what the competition might do based on their history, what they might see as success factors, and the company's strengths/weaknesses. Anyone with a strategy background understands a SWOT analysis. My personal SWOT for Sony when I was there was 8.4 +/- 10% at $399 and actually went as far back as 2016. It's highly likely that the current team adjusted their plans over time as they understood more about the development of Series X.
I can't of course speculate what Sony's SWOT was for Xbox. I'm sure they assumed based on comments from Phil that performance was a big factor in their console plans, and I have every reason to believe that Sony had the same amount of knowledge about the Xbox plan as Xbox
Point being - the Github stuff was really interesting to the community, and likely frustrating for Sony, but came far too late for either company to affect their plans and hold a 2020 ship.
Again, sorry if this wasn't the point you were making.
Vhdl and verilog are actually different languages.
I'm surprised they use vhdl (even though I've never used it) I always imagined that it was kind of low level like verilog. At the company I work at (one of their competitors) , we use system verilog which is somewhat higher level.
I didn't mean to imply they weren't. I always confuse the V in VHDL to stand for "verilog" though.
I assume it's the test bench capabilities of VHDL that make it the language of choice here. Over in Sega Genesis homebrew, VHDL reigns supreme because it allows for unit testing while reverse engineering components through the test bench.
I'm sure they use both, but could VHDL be for control, i.e. Security and Performance?
Ah ok. got it.
Well, nowadays, the industry moved to something called UVM for testbenches which I think is SystemVerilog only (gosh, don't quote me on this though,) so that doubles my surprise. But change is also pretty hard so maybe they haven't moved everything to that. Or the synthesizeable RTL is in VHDL and only verification is using SystemVerilog.
I'm just guessing since I obviously never looked at this repo, haha...
Well I'm not an EE, I'm entirely self taught on electrical engineering from homebrew and hobbist circles over the years, so I'm definitely not aware of what tools are used currently in chip design. I have some friends who work for intel in this field, but they don't really talk to me about the weeds of their job. I learned VHDL, because that's what everyone around me in the homebrew circles I run in uses, and I didn't want to be left out.
No implications on your past comments as I've never read them. I was asking the other 2 fellows on their own posts but thanks for your insight.
At the companies I've worked at, I've seen a mix of VHDL and Verilog. They both have pretty much the same capabilities, including for test benches. Typically it comes down to comfort among the engineers on the project. I've even seen projects that are mixed. Some VHDL modules and some Verilog modules. Even Verilog testbenches for VHDL modules.
Yea, that makes sense. It's kind of interesting that VHDL is more popular among hobbyists since it feels like verilog (and its relatives) are more popular in industry.
It might honestly be a case of VHDL is what the most knowledgable person in the scene knew at the beginning, and thus it set the trend. Like how in Sonic hacking circles, ASM68k is still widely used (and many of that assembler-specific macros are dished through out the community source codes) owing to that being the assembler everyone used in 1998, not because it's necessarily any better or anything.
Yes, this is spot on. As I mentioned earlier, it's usually based on team comfort or what the company has standards for. So yea in the type of thing you're talking about it would make sense for the most knowledgeable person/people who get the project off the ground to set the standard.
Holy shit, I missed this thread. Edit: no I didn't, I replied "Wow". lol.
What in the ever-living fuck?
Did we learn how many CUs Big Navi / Navi 21 has?
What in the ever-living fuck?
Did we learn how many CUs Big Navi / Navi 21 has?
OP
OP
No. Nothing is public yet.
The hacker will leak everything if he doesn't get a buyer for the files.