America is building another big wall. This one will protect New York

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,337
CNN

By 2025, New York's Staten Island will be fortified by a towering seawall running 5.3 miles along the coast, an engineering feat designed to ward off a growing threat. The climate crisis is predicted to create more powerful and extreme weather systems all over the world, and coastal engineers are racing to respond with structures to reduce their impact. The first seawalls were built centuries ago, though there are now, arguably, greater assets to protect and more people living along vulnerable coastlines than ever before. A recent report by the Center for Climate Integrity estimated it could cost the US more than $400 billion over the next 20 years to protect coastal communities.
"Where you have these public and private interests colliding in a contested space, like the coast, that faces ordinary weather events being compounded by climate change, people will look for a solution that gives them as much security as they can hope to achieve," said Tayanah O'Donnell, a senior lecturer at the Australian National University (ANU).

Seawalls are not only expensive to install but need regular maintenance if they are to withstand the prolonged barrage of pounding waves. But in many places they are considered vital to protect land and property that would otherwise be swept out to sea.


When Hurricane Sandy smashed into the US East Coast in 2012, Staten Island was overwhelmed by massive waves that swept away properties and killed 24 of the dozens of people who eventually died in the storm. With a population of almost half a million, low-lying Staten Island was no match for the waves whipped up in New York Harbor, one of which reached a record 32.5 feet high.

Seven years later, $615 million in funding has been secured for the ultimate defense -- a levee, buried seawall and vertical floodwall reaching 20 feet above sea level. Topped with a public walkway, it's officially being called the "Staten Island Multi-Use Elevated Promenade." Graphic visualizations of the wall, released by New York Governor Andrew Cuomo's office, show happy cyclists riding along a wooden deck near an ice-cream stand and coin-operated telescopes pointed out to sea.
The seawall will be built to withstand a 300-year flood event -- a water height two feet above the highest levels recorded during Hurricane Sandy, said Frank Verga, a project manager at the New York District of the United States Army Corps of Engineers (USACE). "The project is a proven engineering solution to withstand multiple storms, with adaptability to be modified in future to address sea level rise, if required," said Verga in an email.https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/snohetta-underwater-restaurant-construction/index.html
The design of seawalls has evolved over time, from rock -- which is still used -- to interlocking concrete units, including the Tetrapods commonly seen in Japan. When rock isn't available, concrete can be more cost-efficient, allowing large numbers of correctly-sized parts to be produced. In recent years there's been a greater push towards natural solutions -- using dunes, mangroves and man-made reefs alongside man-made walls to help calm the sea. "We're not only building a structure that is functional in an engineering sense but it's functional in an environmental sense," said Matt Eliot, a coastal engineer and direct of Seashore Engineering based in Perth, Australia. "We're using that to look for what habitats we can encourage to make it better for the plants and animals in the area."


More modern designs combine a number of protective features to create sheltered habitats for marine animals and plants. At Fort Pierce Marina in Florida, designers at Tetra Tech built a series of curved breakwater islands and tee-shaped groins to repair some of the damage caused by Hurricane Frances in 2004. The hard engineering is complemented by 21 acres of new habitats for oysters, mangroves, dune grass and seagrass, as well as a nesting ground for birds.


In New York, the first contracts for the Staten Island seawall are expected to be awarded next summer, with work to begin soon after, according to the USACE. The design also includes wetlands, and is part of the New York Mayor Bill de Blasio's $10 billion scheme to "climate-proof" New York City, an investment he says is needed to tackle a "national emergency."

"New York doesn't have a choice but to prepare for what's coming. Neither does Miami, Houston, Charleston or any of the coastal cities facing an existential threat to their future," De Blasio wrote in an article in March for a New York magazine.
And it's not just US cities facing the threat of rising water. Major international cities including Jakarta in Indonesia and Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam -- home to a combined 18 million people -- are under urgent pressure to act. With so many people living so close to the sea, the potential losses are staggering-- and the financial cost of creating a durable solution is rising by the day.

"The longer we take to mitigate against climate change, the more expensive it's going to be to adapt to a changing climate," O'Donnell said.
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RedSparrows

Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,249
And someone, somewhere will still say 'naaaah climate change is a con, they're just doing this for corrupt contracts and kickbacks' etc.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,968
What if those $400 billion could have been used to help prevent climate change rather than deal with the consequences.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,570
I don't think anyone denies the climate is changing? It's more about whether us humans are causing this change or not.
The narrative has shifted to this, but there are still a lot of people who think the climate isn't changing. They'll complain about it being too hot in Summer but refuse to accept it's because the climate is changing. A client once said he thought the sun was getting bigger, that's why it's getting hotter.
 

nwb

Member
Mar 30, 2018
53
The narrative has shifted to this, but there are still a lot of people who think the climate isn't changing. They'll complain about it being too hot in Summer but refuse to accept it's because the climate is changing. A client once said he thought the sun was getting bigger, that's why it's getting hotter.
Fundamentally most peoples stance on climate change will be ideological first - justifications and reasoning comes after that. They start from the position that climate change can't be real and proceed to argue themselves into corners they can't get out of.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,399
I don't think anyone denies the climate is changing? It's more about whether us humans are causing this change or not.
In the end I'm not sure why this difference even matters. If you're inside a burning building trying to escape you're not gonna argue over whether the fire occurred naturally or because of someone starting it.
 

LL_Decitrig

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,027
Sunderland
I don't think anyone denies the climate is changing? It's more about whether us humans are causing this change or not.
Nah. Remember Jim Inhofe throwing a snowball on the floor of the Senate. He then claimed in his prepared speech that the climate was getting colder. At the time he was chair of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, a position he held from 2003 to 2007 and 2015 to 2017.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
9,519
Not America
Why are Americans building a wall against Chinese hoax? Would that money not be better spent in building more invisible F35 or bolstering the military?

What a waste.
 

FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,053
There are several cities on the east coast with various projects up in the air to stop the inevitable flooding. My nearby Norfolk, Virginia is trying some kind of automated dike-like system. It has flooded down there even in modest downpours ever since the late 90's. They're going to need a hell of a lot more than they're planning. I can imagine them finally settling on something akin to what the Dutch do, sacrificing the nice harbor in the process, along with major sewage projects. I don't think they have any other choice.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,897
Incoming Trump tweet on how "hypocrite liberals are just jealous of my Wall because it's bigger and solves actual problems" in 3....2....
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,526
I don't think anyone denies the climate is changing?
Oh you sweet summer child. I've had intense arguments with extended family members over whether or not the weather is changing. "It's all in your mind," "How on earth could they know what the temperature was like back then?" "It's just an unusually hot summer (said every year), next one could be unusually cold!" and so forth.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,001
Mangroves are far more effective, although this feels like preemptive bandage for a problem not being averted.
 

Jarrod38

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,646
So in reality it wouldn’t be finished until 2075 and cost 8 times what is was suppose to cost.
 
Oct 27, 2017
179
USA
Keep in mind I have no idea what I'm talking about but why not go bigger and build something across the bay from Sandy Hook to Jamaica Bay with some kind of canal system to protect the whole region? They will have to eventually anyways, right? I know it would be astronomically more expensive and take a lot more time but it would be a lot more future-proof and probably save a ton of money in the long run.
 

Cow Mengde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,295
seawalls literally work, they're on many southern coastal cities. New York just hasn't typically needed them, because, you know, climate dictated that hurricanes usually hit down south. Now that has changed.
The movie was literally saying people aren't tackling the real threat and instead try to use a bandaid to try and fix the problem. We should be putting more effort into fighting climate change because rising sea waters isn't the only threat to the world. Imagine if the sea wall fails, think of the disaster it'll cause.
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,526
The movie was literally saying people aren't tackling the real threat and instead try to use a bandaid to try and fix the problem. We should be putting more effort into fighting climate change because rising sea waters isn't the only threat to the world. Imagine if the sea wall fails, think of the disaster it'll cause.
even if the climate never changed, seawalls are still useful and do protect against hurricanes. We've literally always had hurricanes, they're not a new invention. "Walls never work" is just flat out wrong. Seawalls are proven to work.
 
Oct 27, 2017
533
Before building anything concrete to withstand seawater they should really wait till they understand the concrete the Romans used. Current concrete starts to break down after a few decades, while some of the Roman docks et al. are still standing strong 2000 years later. There are current studies, but AFAIK they still haven't come close to matching them for longevity.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846