Funny how it's not anti-Semitic when it's written in this context:
This is why phrasing is important. Do it correctly, no-one will bat an eyelash.
Funny how it's not anti-Semitic when it's written in this context:
There's nothing wrong with how she phrased her criticism.This is why phrasing is important. Do it correctly, no-one will bat an eyelash.
Bullshit. The criticism of her statement s are absolutely in bad faith. Saying what she said is antisemitic is 100% the same as saying that criticism of Israeli-US relations is impossible. If you think I am exaggerating, please provide an example of valid criticism.Posters have explained in this thread that this is not true, and it's not the first time she's done this. You can't just say shit about Israel without being super delicate to be absolutely clear you're not using anti-semitic language due to context and I'm not talking about the bad faith accusations by the the GOP and Israel.
Her context could not have been clearer, she's talking about anti-bds laws that trample all over the first amendment rights, especially of muslim americans. What has been happening ever since are a bunch of 'liberal allies' telling her to be careful about what she says while also putting words in her mouth and if's really fucking gross.Posters have explained in this thread that this is not true, and it's not the first time she's done this. You can't just say shit about Israel without being super delicate to be absolutely clear you're not using anti-semitic language due to context and I'm not talking about the bad faith accusations by the the GOP and Israel.
This is why israel gets away with murder everyday, and see in this thread how that way is paved for themBullshit. The criticism of her statement s are absolutely in bad faith. Saying what she said is antisemitic is 100% the same as saying that criticism of Israeli-US relations is impossible. If you think I am exaggerating, please provide an example of valid criticism.
Her context could not have been clearer, she's talking about anti-bds laws that trample all over the first amendment rights, especially of muslim americans.
What has been happening ever since are a bunch of 'liberal allies' telling her to be careful about what she says while also putting words in her mouth and if's really fucking gross.
If you are not able to provide an example of criticism of Israel which is not antisemitic in your eyes, you leave people no choice but to believe you have been arguing in bad faith.Context and phrasing, both have got her in very hot water over this issue lately, and in the past. It continues to happen, it's depressing.
You do realise these include Jewish Democrats, right? Nobody's putting words in her mouth. Presentation is super important for anybody with antisemitism, never mind a US congresswoman.
Context and phrasing, both have got her in very hot water over this issue lately, and in the past. It continues to happen, it's depressing.
You do realise these include Jewish Democrats, right? Nobody's putting words in her mouth. Presentation is super important for anybody with antisemitism, never mind a US congresswoman.
Muslims being antisemitic is really an anti-Islamic trope that we should be wary of when criticising any Muslim person.
If you are not able to provide an example of criticism of Israel which is not antisemitic in your eyes, you leave people no choice but to believe you have been arguing in bad faith.
The quote:
"I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country."
The headline:
"Ilhan Omar accuses pro-Israel activists of dual loyalty."
You:
"She better watch what she says."
What's happening here is she's being presented as some kind of villain, like it's her fault alone that her words are being twisted beyond recognition to paint her as an anti-semite and you're so gleefully along for that ride, like she's the one who needs to adjust how she acts.
Like I said. Really. Fucking. Gross.
Then maybe she should mention them? If you speak generally when using what is generally an antisemitic remark, in this context, you include Jews, so it would be a good idea to maybe choose words carefully and specify the target, the Evangelicals?
She can say something antisemitic without intentionally being antisemitic. All I said that this is a very well known highly antisemitic dog whistle to say in Germany and I am sure elsewhere as well, that a Jew or Jews have "dual loyalty", it is text book Nazi rhetoric. So yes, irrespective of who it is, what she said here was worded very wrong and it is a dog whistle to say Jews have a dual loyalty. If you misused words, words that have for over 100 years been Nazi rhetoric, then yes she should choose words carefully? If she meant to target Evangelicals then that's a big fuck up not to specify when using such a remark.
I do not understand the political landscape of Evangelism 100% in the U.S as it is very very different from Europe, so if they are major Israel supporters, then why does she not talk specifically address them? Why talk in general terms using a dog whistle, which include Jewish people? If she thought more about what she said, she could be specific about the demographic and therefore detach the antisemitic slant.
I have no idea who Rohrbacher is, as I said I am not from the U.S
Show me where she used the words 'dual loyalty.' You literally can't without putting words in her mouth that she didn't say.Dual loyalty is a trope in anti-semitism. I'm not gleefully doing anything, and yes, everyone must be careful with their words, particularly politicians on multiple issues. It's not like society hasn't got phrasing issues regarding racism or sexism, but you're ignoring this when it comes to a congresswoman being seen as a anti-semite?
The 'dual loyalty' thing is something that the journalists said, not her.
Show me where she used the words 'dual loyalty.' You literally can't without putting words in her mouth that she didn't say.
You're along for the ride as long as you parrot this twisted version of what she says, out of some transparently fake concern that the words of a muslim woman of color's might get weaponized by extremists, something that has time and again never needed any help from anybody to happen in the history of this country.
Still really fucking gross.
Muslims being antisemitic is really an anti-Islamic trope that we should be wary of when criticising any Muslim person.
She's not to blame for any of this happening because the journos in the OP are outright lying about what she said.You're fine with Omar giving the GOP and Israel the tools they need to sideline her when she's a badly needed voice in congress for the people you speak of.
Does not change the fact the Israel is also settler colonialism. They formed their refuge by kicking out the natives of Palestine and taking their land because the British empire decided it so - the natives were not asked for their opinions on this and many lost their homes. The Nakba happened. And the Palestinians kicked out and their descendants? Not allowed to return to Israel - they still have the pictures and memories of their houses now occupied by other people and made into government buildings.
Palestinian refugees don't have a state and anywhere to go.
It's wild the amount of hate there is in the world for the new-age Democrats.
It's wild how many posters here ran with the "dual loyalty" and didn't check that Ilhan never said that. Criticism of AIPAC is not that.
The Naqba is Israel's founding sin, for which they haven't even begun to atone. They absolutely must allow the refugees to return and withdraw to the 1967 border. That said, modern Israelis don't have anywhere to go either, you'd be in the wrong if you wanted them to go anywhere.
Our absolute unwavering and downright fanatical support of a blatantly apartheid state is one of things I'm most ashamed of as an American. It feels like it will never change, especially now that they're pushing laws making it illegal to even crticize Israel. Those are the kind of laws somewhere like Saudi Arabia or Russia has, not America. It's a frightening failing of our democracy.
I suppose since we are in bed with Saudi Arabia as well it only makes sense that we start to emulate their qualities.
I guess it should really be no surprise.True. I always just remember that this country is run by a religious death cult, and that we were born and crafted out of slavery, genocide, and ethnic supremacy. Even Hitler picked up on some of ongoing greatest hits to start enacting his madness and cruelty.
Thus why I will never be surprised at the USA's complicity in evil.
You think Jews in the US are threatened by black social democrats from Minnesota?This assertion is wrong. And, to be clear, it's inverse is also wrong.
The majority of anti-semitic opinions, violence, etc. will come from white Americans because they are the majority, yes. That doesn't mean that it can't or won't be present in other groups.
I'm Jew of eastern European descent, 90% of my extend family was lost in the holocaust, I don't need you to explain antisemitism to me, thank you very much.South Africa started its existence as a colonialist slave state. Israel started as a refuge for the survivors of centuries of oppression in Europe, not to mention the Holocaust.
You seem to be a little out of date on the current makeup of antisemites. There are plenty of Muslim antisemites out there who will get a boost from comments like this.
Fuck GOP
Fuck AIPAC
Fuck Israel
Fuck all of those who support above.
I'm Jew of eastern European descent, 90% of my extend family was lost in the holocaust, I don't need you to explain antisemitism to me, thank you very much.
And to say Jews in the US are threatened by the left is fucking bullshit, the GOP has been trying to make that a thing since forever, but it's just not true.
Those are a lot of words, but I'm still unsure how saying "I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country" is suppose to incite racist attacks against me.A real left wing hardly exists in the US, and doesn't exist at all in either political party, so a lot of this doesn't yet apply to the states in a practical way. However, the real left wing wherever it does exist (ie Europe) is staunchly pro-Palestine, which absolutely, unfortunately, makes it vulnerable to infection by antisemitism. It's too easy to start thinking "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and start making excuses for antisemitic shit rolling in from Israel's enemies in the Middle East.
Growing pains. This phase will pass. If elections were limited to, say, people under 50, then our elections would be wildly more left-wing than they are. Bernie would be boring.It's wild the amount of hate there is in the world for the new-age Democrats.
Would it? I've lost faith in a lot of youth who've embraced the alt-right with open arms.Growing pains. This phase will pass. If elections were limited to, say, people under 50, then our elections would be wildly more left-wing than they are. Bernie would be boring.
Too bad shes not an old white guy. People would be applauding her courage if she was
Lemme instill some faith:Would it? I've lost faith in a lot of youth who've embraced the alt-right with open arms.
Only about three-in-ten Gen Zers and Millennials (30% and 29%, respectively) approve of the way Donald Trump is handling his job as president. This compares with 38% of Gen Xers, 43% of Boomers and 54% of Silents.
Would it? I've lost faith in a lot of youth who've embraced the alt-right with open arms.
I'm a political activist. I do a lot.because fascism has largely been unchallenged until recently. seeing this should only inspire you to do more.
I truly hope those numbers coincide with future voting numbers. At least the midterms went about as good as I hoped. I guess it's hard to be hopeful with the current state of things. I'm definitely overly pessimistic at times.Lemme instill some faith:
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019...llennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/
This time around, the "silent majority" are by far progressives, not conservatives. The alt-right youtube conspiracy crowd is easy to find on the internet but pretty damn hard to find in real life. A million alt-right US citizens on the internet comes out to an average of 20k voters per state. That's not even 1/3 of Pennsylvania's margin in 2016. They aren't worth our attention.
I edited my post but I think it pretty much says everything I'd respond to this post with. There's no need for us to be pessimistic. We're watching the death throes of white nationalism (which has always run this country but has only started doing so overtly, mainly out of necessity.)I truly hope those numbers coincide with future voting numbers. At least the midterms went about as good as I hoped. I guess it's hard to be hopeful with the current state of things. I'm definitely overly pessimistic at times.
Anti-Semitic tropes that should be avoided:
Jews control the media - so don't criticize the media's overwhelming bias towards Israel.
Jews control all the money - so don't criticize the influence of political donations in generating support for Israel (i.e. all about the Benjamins).
Jews have dual-loyalty - so don't criticize any efforts to undermine the Constitution to criminalize opposition to Israel.
Jews partake in "blood libel" - so don't criticize the Israelis overwhelming use of violence against Palestinians for decades.
As long as you avoid discussing the media, money, politics, and violence, you're safe in advocating for Palestinian rights. Otherwise, you're skirting too close to those Anti-Semitic tropes and you might offend the people who maybe someday will finally use their privilege to speak up for your rights.
Oh but also, if pro-Israel Jews use these tropes, it's ok because they're said in the proper context, but if Jewish critics of Israel use them, they're self-hating Jews who have been radicalized by the Palestinians and the far left.
Let the chapo bois run you through the bad faith arguments and hypotheticals that spring up like turds in a clogged toilet every time someone gives Israel a crooked eye.
The "dual loyalty" thing really is anti-semitic. People used to trot that canard out against Catholics too.
The conversation keeps getting spun to Antisemitism, even in Era.
There is a legit problem in Aipac but the pro Aipac defense keeps winning because the conversation just reverts to "antisemitism" and tone policing
A major reason this keeps happening is that some (Hi Michael Tracey) are actively interested in conflating good and bad faith critiques all together under the "bad faith" label and it's a huge, huge problem.The conversation keeps getting spun to Antisemitism, even in Era.
There is a legit problem in Aipac but the pro Aipac defense keeps winning because the conversation just reverts to "antisemitism" and tone policing
Your belief that non-white people in the US can't possibly be anti-semitic is statement totally at odds with reality. It's not just a white majority thing, even though the majority of people with those views will be white because they're the majority. Just because you aren't feeling threatened doesn't mean that those beliefs aren't harmful, that letting them go unchallenged is not a problem, that trying to increase understanding isn't necessary. The beliefs are what breeds the violence. Allowing the conspiracy theories to spread with no pushback, allowing them to run unchecked, that's what will inevitably erupt if you don't fight it.You think Jews in the US are threatened by black social democrats from Minnesota?
Like, for real?
I'm a Jew living in the US and I REALLY don't feel personality threatened by her quoting Jay Z or whatever, and I'm still unclear how any of what she said supposed to incite violence against me.
I'm really really not.
Now the assholes who are calling her a terrorists, I can totally see how their shit is going to come back to bite me in the ass, but they support Israel so like whatever.