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American Soccer |OT| WORLD CUP BOUND

Steve Winwood

Steve Winwood

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,589
I think pro/rel brings a top-to-bottom competitiveness that would increase the quality of the whole league over time. 10 years of the better-run clubs tending to get promoted, stay up, etc and the worse-run clubs trending to the bottom provides a ton of best-practices feedback to the whole system, imo. Agree that it's not realistic for a variety of reasons.

Also, it sucks for my hometown Louisville City that they've won the USL twice and just have nowhere to go from here.
 
B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,714
Steve Winwood said:
I think pro/rel brings a top-to-bottom competitiveness that would increase the quality of the whole league over time. 10 years of the better-run clubs tending to get promoted, stay up, etc and the worse-run clubs trending to the bottom provides a ton of best-practices feedback to the whole system, imo. Agree that it's not realistic for a variety of reasons.

Also, it sucks for my hometown Louisville City that they've won the USL twice and just have nowhere to go from here.
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In reality though, in pro/rel systems, how many clubs actually stay up let alone compete for a top spot? They generally go right back down because they don't have the money to spend to compete.
 
Steve Winwood

Steve Winwood

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,589
B-Dubs said:
In reality though, in pro/rel systems, how many clubs actually stay up let alone compete for a top spot? They generally go right back down because they don't have the money to spend to compete.
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From 06/07 through 16/17, 58% of clubs promoted to the PL stayed up for at least one season, and PL-vs-Championship is probably the starkest money differential out there. And I think you still reap the rewards of increased competition even without an expectation that promoted teams will compete for titles. (The relegation part might be as important as the promotion part there.)
 
andycapps

andycapps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,421
Columbus, OH
B-Dubs said:
The cap needs to stay for a bit, if only to keep the league from turning into the EPL.

Also, Pro/Rel would do literally nothing here.
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I clarified a bit. The salary cap isn't going away with the next changes, nor should it. That's just what I want to work to. Good steps would be a spending floor, increase TAM/GAM, increasing international slots, and raising minimum salary.

In time, promotion/relegation would demote teams that don't give a shit and promote teams like Louisville that do. Absent owners would have to make a decision to spend more or sell to someone who cares enough to spend more.

By doing this, you raise the floor of the league and increase competitiveness and watchability by having a better overall product on the field. As it is, some teams are perfectly fine spending bare minimum and never contending, because there are no real consequences like being relegated.
 
B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,714
andycapps said:
I clarified a bit. The salary cap isn't going away with the next changes, nor should it. That's just what I want to work to. Good steps would be a spending floor, increase TAM/GAM, increasing international slots, and raising minimum salary.

In time, promotion/relegation would demote teams that don't give a shit and promote teams like Louisville that do. Absent owners would have to make a decision to spend more or sell to someone who cares enough to spend more.

By doing this, you raise the floor of the league and increase competitiveness and watchability by having a better overall product on the field. As it is, some teams are perfectly fine spending bare minimum and never contending, because there are no real consequences like being relegated.
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Ehh, I dunno. Raising the salary cap seems like it would do way more for that tbh.

Like, the Revs are always trash and their owner doesn't give a fuck but they're never really in the relegation zone. Meanwhile Orlando keeps trying, they just keep fucking it up somehow. I know which of the two I'd rather keep around long-term and which I'd ditch.
 
andycapps

andycapps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,421
Columbus, OH
B-Dubs said:
Ehh, I dunno. Raising the salary cap seems like it would do way more for that tbh.

Like, the Revs are always trash and their owner doesn't give a fuck but they're never really in the relegation zone. Meanwhile Orlando keeps trying, they just keep fucking it up somehow. I know which of the two I'd rather keep around long-term and which I'd ditch.
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I'm not super into promotion/relegation, I'm just trying to figure out ways of improving the league. You're right about what teams are trying and which ones aren't, and how money doesn't always equal success. You can't fix stupid/Orlando.

Cornballer said:
Steve Fenn's salary tool on Tableau is useful if you want to muck around with what salaries have been over the last few years. Looking at 2018, there weren't too many serious stragglers. Bigger issue was teams just screwing up how they spent their cash.
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Most interesting thing with that at least from my perspective is how my team, Atlanta, isn't putting a ton of money into salary but is spending out the ass for transfer fees.
 
makingmusic476

makingmusic476

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,698
New Orleans
Cornballer said:
Steve Fenn's salary tool on Tableau is useful if you want to muck around with what salaries have been over the last few years. Looking at 2018, there weren't too many serious stragglers. Bigger issue was teams just screwing up how they spent their cash.
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Out of curiosity, I've calculated the ratio of the highest team salary relative to the lowest team salary for each year:

07 - 5.2x - LAG-CHV
08 - 4.2x - LAG-NE
09 - 4.7x - LAG-SJ
10 - 6.3x - RBNY-CHV
11 - 5.4x - LAG-POR
12 - 6.4x - RBNY-NE
13 - 4.2x - RBNY-CHV
14 - 5.1x - TFC-CHV
15 - 5.3x - TFC-FCD
16 - 5.0x - TFC-CHI
17 - 4.2x - TFC-DC
18 - 4.5x - TFC-HOU

The swings from year to year can usually be accounted for by the gain or loss of a single DP by the team with the highest total salary.
 
ScoutDave

ScoutDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,291
andycapps said:
Lol

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Dartastic

Dartastic

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,779
If the Timbers lose this one, I genuinely am going to start worrying about this team.
 
Dartastic

Dartastic

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,779
We thought maybe we could have gotten one more year out of our aging core. I'm not sure we can. I feel awful saying this, but Valeri felt like he was basically non-existent tonight, and he hasn't been much better the last few games. He even had his PK saved... He's aging out, isn't he. :(
 
andycapps

andycapps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,421
Columbus, OH
Interesting article on Josef's penalty technique. I've never understood why more people don't try it.



Martínez is 11 for 12 from the spot for Atlanta United. His lone miss came last season in a 2-0 victory over the Los Angeles Galaxy. Despite this record, Martínez revealed that Tata Martino, his manager at the time, wasn't the biggest fan of the unorthodox technique.

"He told me once that he felt more comfortable when I stepped up and struck it hard," Martínez said of Tata. "He respected it if I felt good about it, but he said it made him feel like he had his balls in his throat."

After his miss against the Galaxy, which included a jump-step, the coach and striker shared a moment on the sideline of the StubHub Center.

"I pulled it," Martínez remembered. "I scored right after that and walked over to drink water. Tata and I looked at each other and I said, 'Mother fucker.' And Tata said 'What's wrong? You just scored. Don't worry about it.' You can't miss if you don't step up and shoot. Not everyone feels good about taking a penalty. It's not easy."
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In MLS, Martínez has a budding rivalry with the Philadelphia Union's Andre Blake. He has scored a total of six goals against the Jamaican international, including one during the 2016 Copa América Centenario. Three of those goals have been penalties.

"He hasn't saved any of them," said Martínez with a laugh. "The last time was when I had a hat trick and (tied) the (MLS hat trick) record. Right before, he said to me, 'Don't jump.' I had jumped during a penalty against him in Philadelphia. Here at home, I didn't jump. For me, he's one of the best goalkeepers I've seen. That son of a bitch has made some saves against us."

The respect goes both ways.

"When he's in the air, there's not much you can do," Blake said. "You can go either side, trust that he might not get enough power. But if you wait and he gets the right amount of placement, you're not getting there. It takes a lot of guts, a lot of confidence and a player who can manipulate the ball very well."
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B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,714
andycapps said:
Interesting article on Josef's penalty technique. I've never understood why more people don't try it.

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Because everyone has their own thing, besides, the hop seems like it would be risky. What if you took more of a hop than you meant to? Less of one? Drifted off to the side a bit? Then all of a sudden your timing is off or you don't hit it square and miss/it gets saved.
 
andycapps

andycapps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,421
Columbus, OH
B-Dubs said:
Because everyone has their own thing, besides, the hop seems like it would be risky. What if you took more of a hop than you meant to? Less of one? Drifted off to the side a bit? Then all of a sudden your timing is off or you don't hit it square and miss/it gets saved.
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He talked about how he's been practicing it since he was in Serie A a few years ago and practices it every day. So it's something that would require practice but if you can get it down like he does, he's only missed 1.
 
B-Dubs

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,714
andycapps said:
He talked about how he's been practicing it since he was in Serie A a few years ago and practices it every day. So it's something that would require practice but if you can get it down like he does, he's only missed 1.
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That sounds like the miss rate is more down to the daily practice than anything else
 
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