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BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
Full article here: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...-are-clearly-not-working-the-way-they-used-to

Excerpt:
"I personally needed a break from it, but in that break, it's been an opportunity to say I'm not even sure it makes sense to do it that way," Hennig says. "I think we keep doing it that way because we have these established companies and teams, and that's a resource, an asset you don't want to just throw away. But on the other hand, we're seeing news stories left and right where developers are folding and publishers are laying off hundreds of people. It feels like something feels inevitable, because the cost of development and keeping all these people on staff, especially in expensive areas, just doesn't feel sustainable."

"There are all these red flags, canary-in-the-mine moments where things are clearly not working the way they used to"​
The topic is especially relevant as we speak, with much of the event buzzing about the previous day's news that Activision Blizzard would be laying off 800 people despite posting record financial results.

"I feel like there are all these red flags, canary-in-the-mine moments where things are clearly not working the way they used to, or not working," Hennig says.

As for what might work, Hennig looks to the TV and film industries as a model that makes some sense, as it relies less on in-house production and more on heavy use of external contractors.

"Obviously that would require a big sea change in the industry -- probably towards unionization, too -- but you would have a lot more external partners or freelance developers as part of a team, do more things as distributed development rather than have everything in-house," Hennig says. "It would allow for a lot more flexibility rather than feeling that constant pressure, that churn of salaries.

"And I think it would allow us a little more downtime, too. A lot of what we talk about with crunch pressure is not just the ambition of the titles, it's also just the fact that these people are employees. So we said, 'Thank God' when DLC became a thing, because there might be this huge dip of downtime where you might need 10 people but you have 300, so what are you going to do? They're employees. Now we can shuffle those people onto DLC content, but even then that creates this crunch churn on the staff."

While not having large internal teams might help solve quality-of-life issues, Hennig notes that it raises other questions that still need answers.

"It used to be that we were all jacks of all trades, almost. You kind of had to be"​
"If we're in a studio system but we're all free agents, what would that look like? This is all speculative, because we're still living in a world where big companies have these giant staffs," Hennig says. "But even so, we never really used to do external development. Everything we did was more-or-less in-house. And more and more -- particularly for art, visual effects, and things like that -- we are working with external vendors a lot. It wouldn't be possible to make these big, impressive games if we weren't.

"So it feels like there's already a move in that direction. Whether it just becomes that we still have big teams and more external partners or smaller teams and more things are externalized remains to be seen."
I think her point is that you can no longer feel safe as a permanent employee in AAA development. Despite record profits, the publishers will still cut you loose at the end of the project to save themselves money to afford making the next game.
 
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Bhonar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,066
I mean... if she's trying to say that AAA game are unsustainable for *some* development studios, then sure that's true.

But clearly there are at least a few devs/publishers who are still able to make AAA games that sell great and make money
 

Punished Dan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,246
It does seem that the AAA industry is at a point where its becoming unsustainable. Games are so expensive to make, they require hundreds if not thousands of people to make them but at the end of development you're potentially out the door.
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,513
But clearly there are at least a few devs/publishers who are still able to make AAA games that sell great and make money

Whether a game sells great or makes money really has absolutely nothing to do with what she's saying.
 
OP
OP

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
I mean... if she's trying to say that AAA game are unsustainable for *some* development studios, then sure that's true.

But clearly there are at least a few devs/publishers who are still able to make AAA games that sell great and make money
Her exact quotes seem to saying it's just not stable to enough to employ the hundreds of people on a staff permanently. That games may need to shift to the movie industry style of contractors.
 

Nashira

Alt Account
Banned
Feb 21, 2019
207
A more proper assessment would be 'Capitalism has become unsustainable'
 

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,788
I mean... if she's trying to say that AAA game are unsustainable for *some* development studios, then sure that's true.

But clearly there are at least a few devs/publishers who are still able to make AAA games that sell great and make money

And then a couple duds hit and those devs/publishers disappear
 

Herb Alpert

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,033
Paris, France
I mean... if she's trying to say that AAA game are unsustainable for *some* development studios, then sure that's true.

But clearly there are at least a few devs/publishers who are still able to make AAA games that sell great and make money

It's "just" unsustainable for the people who work there. That doesn't mean it isn't a financial success.
It's a really unhealthy situation.
 

arts&crafts

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,123
Toronto
I think financially they are sustainable but I do not know if they are ethically sustainable. Lets just look at the top 2 AAA developers Rockstar and CDProjektRed, both have multiple reports of unethical working conditions.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
What a way to validate what Jim Sterling (he doesn't have an account here?) spent years of saying.
Although the conclusion is the same, the analysis couldnt be more different.
 

Dimple

Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,539
I wonder if Phil Spencer's been on the phone, a smaller studio (30-40 people) creating smaller AA experiences would be ideal for GP.
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
I mean... if she's trying to say that AAA game are unsustainable for *some* development studios, then sure that's true.

But clearly there are at least a few devs/publishers who are still able to make AAA games that sell great and make money

If only massive companys that can swallow loses like Sony and MS can afford making AAA then it IS unsustainable and should not be seen like the standard the industry is trying to position.
 

Velezcora

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
3,124
I've been thinking about this for quite a while actually. Nobody brings it up. As graphics improve and the price of development keeps rising will AAA gaming just become infeasible? I'm so glad digital gaming introduced indies to consoles. Definitely helps that we've seen a return to AA gaming this gen as well.
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,109
I have to wonder what "unsustainable" means in this context.

Are we heading to a video-game crash a la the big Atari disaster back in the 80s?

Given how much money studios like EA and Activision Blizzard are making, I don't really think so? The games they make still sell millions. But that's not enough for them. No matter what they sell and how much they make, it's always disappointing because they're not growing fast enough.

So where does this all lead? Do they grow so big that not even their games selling millions is enough to sustain the company anymore and the whole thing just implodes in on itself?

If that happened to EA, Activision Blizzard, Ubisoft, and the like, what implications does that have for the industry as a whole and where would things go from there?
 

Septy

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 29, 2017
4,081
United States
I think companies like EA and Activision have unsustainable AAA games by launching mediocre games and putting profits first.
But I think Ubisoft is actually doing quite well.
 

JayWood2010

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,120
That is a little unfair to say. Sure, her game didnt work out, and it sounds like a combination of reasons including the high price of her studio in Chicago(I think that the city), and EA going a different route.

On the other hand there is plenty of other studios and publishers that have a lot of success with AAA games. Just because she had a bad experience doesnt mean the entire industry is having the same experience.
 

Bhonar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,066
Her exact quotes seem to saying it's just not stable to enough to employ the hundreds of people on a staff permanently. That games may need to shift to the movie industry style of contractors.
I would agree with that point. But there are already lots of 3rd-party contractors who work on parts of AAA games , so that's already happening
 
OP
OP

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
I have to wonder what "unsustainable" means in this context.

Are we heading to a video-game crash a la the big Atari disaster back in the 80s?

Given how much money studios like EA and Activision Blizzard are making, I don't really think so? The games they make still sell millions. But that's not enough for them. No matter what they sell and how much they make, it's always disappointing because they're not growing fast enough.

So where does this all lead? Do they grow so big that not even their games selling millions is enough to sustain the company anymore and the whole thing just implodes in on itself?

If that happened to EA, Activision Blizzard, Ubisoft, and the like. What implications does that have for the industry as a whole and where would things go from there?
I don't think she means the money is running out. She means the security of employees is at risk and thus drives talent away. You fire hundreds of developers over and over, good luck finding the next generation willing to do it all over again. Good having a healthy studio.

She sees potential for movie industry style where contractors are king. Outsourcing is king.

Teams that get hired year round but not to make one game, to instead specialize. We already see it with some studios. Companies like Ubi outsource specific parts of their games to specific teams, and that's more sustainable cash flow to devs.
 

Bhonar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,066
If only massive companys that can swallow loses like Sony and MS can afford making AAA then it IS unsustainable and should not be seen like the standard the industry is trying to position.
who said it's the "standard" now? have you noticed the increase of indie games the past 5 years?

AAA is not the majority of games anymore
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,353
Has become ?
Its been like this for years - if you are on the winning side you win big - everyone else is screwed though.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
It has been for a while. IMHO. Was covered up last gen by microstransactions and industry growth . Now that growth has shifted out of consoles and dev costs continue to climb and with consumers revolting against further monetization the pricing structure in the AAA space can no longer sustain the devbcosts
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
Is the TV/Film industry really a good model though? VFX houses seem to close with more regularity than game studios...
 

JK-Money

Attempt to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,558
I mena it depends who you work with, Sony has been pumping out AAA games like its nothing and making lots of good money with them. Her vision of Uncharted 4 didnt impress apparently and when you work for EA....what can you really expect. Maybe she can eventually work her way back to Sony with a vision they agree with
 

TissueBox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,991
Urinated States of America
'Member people, Amy had two, not one, two high-profile AAA games shuttered on her. The first, Uncharted 4, came on the tail of about two years of development before she was no longer part of the project and it was re-done practically top to bottom. The second came as a lucky nab at Visceral Studios under the EA flag on a Star Wars title that smelled of the miraculous spiritual child of 1313. She even had Todd Stashwick, the original actor for Sam on production-period UC4, co-writing it with her. After the mess of UC4's development, it felt like a vindicating second wind -- then, not so long ago now, it was closed, as per the norm for EA's single-player Star Wars titles apparently...

In any case, if anybody has opinions to voice about AAA, unfortunately... well, Hennig's certainly one.
 

K Samedi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,989
Hmm I don't know. Its better to have at least a sizable team of experienced staff. You can have a bad year or two, but people learn from their mistakes and improve. I think the bigger publishers should have a few billion on the side in case they have a few rough years. Nintendo is pretty smart in that and they can survive huge failures like WiiU because of the cash reserves.