Amy Hennig: People ask for linear Story-Based Games but aren’t necessarily buying them

esserius · Jan 22, 2018

Brian Damage said:
I don't know if Breath of the Wild is a great point of comparison here. As one of the the first major exclusives of a new system and the latest entry in a long running critically acclaimed series, it was pretty much guaranteed to do well regardless of how it looked. I don't think it would have done so well if it were a new IP on multiple platforms.

Well, this is a different problem altogether, that the game industry is much more focused on products rather than people. From Software is kinda brilliant in that way, where their player base will buy it because it's a product from that studio, even if they barely know what it is. Game developers and publishers need to start focusing on the quality a studio (and the individuals within it) brings to the table, because franchises are pretty ephemeral, but people know what kind of movie Guillermo del Toro or Peter Jackson is going to make - you can't really say the same about the game industry.

chromatic9 · Jan 22, 2018

ZhugeEX said:
Just look at the top 10 best selling games of the year in the US.

Call of Duty: WWII

NBA 2K18

Destiny 2

Madden NFL 18

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild*

Grand Theft Auto V

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Wildlands

Star Wars: Battlefront II

Super Mario Odyssey*

Mario Kart 8*

Odyssey is the only one I would consider a traditional $60 linear single player game.
All the others are live service titles, open world games, multiplayer / co-op focused etc...

I don't think using this US years top 10 proves much. You have to dig a bit deeper. I looked through a bunch and see the same shit.

US 2008

Wii Play w/ remote - Wii – Nintendo
Mario Kart Wii w/ wheel – Wii – Nintendo
Wii Fit w/ balance board – Wii – Nintendo
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Wii – Nintendo
Grand Theft Auto IV - Xbox 360 – Take-Two
Call of Duty: World at War - Xbox 360 – Activision
Gears of War 2 - Xbox 360 – Microsoft
Grand Theft Auto IV - PS3 – Take-Two –
Madden NFL 09 - Xbox 360 – Electronic Arts –
Mario Kart - DS – Nintendo –

2009

New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Wii) / Nintendo / 2.82 million
Wii Fit Plus (Wii) / Nintendo / 2.41 million
Wii Sports Resort (Wii) / Nintendo / 1.79 million
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (Xbox 360) / Infinity Ward, Activision / 1.63 million
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (PS3) / Infinity Ward, Activision / 1.12 million
Wii Play (Wii) / Nintendo / 1.01 million
Mario Kart Wii (Wii) / Nintendo / 936,100
Assassin's Creed II (Xbox 360) / Ubisoft Montreal / 783,100
Left 4 Dead 2 (Xbox 360) / Valve, Electronic Arts / 728,500
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story (NDS) / Alphadream, Nintendo / 656,700
The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (NDS) / Nintendo
New Super Mario Bros. (NDS) / Nintendo
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games (NDS) / Sega
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games (Wii) / Sega
Madden NFL 10 (Xbox 360) / Electronic Arts
Scribblenauts (NDS) / Warner Bros.
Mario Kart DS (NDS) / Nintendo
Assassin's Creed II (PS3) / Ubisoft
Madden NFL 10 (PS3) / Electronic Arts
Just Dance (Wii) / Ubisoft

No Uncharted 2 in 2009 top 20.

Also TLOU I feel was helped by streaming.

You could make top single player games for 20-30 million but now as Epic said for Gears, they didn't want to put in 100 million for Gears so they sold it, the older games cost about 12 million. We went from 20 million in 2009 to 100 million for an inferior Tomb Raider 2013.

KushalaDaora · Jan 22, 2018

Cryptosporidium said:
Yeah, the success of games like freaking Nier Automata of all things shows that there is a way.

Personal opinion from someone who only buy 6-15 hours long game when they are on sale :

It took me 70 hours to finish the story and 90% of sidequest in Nier Automata. That's comparable to true Open World game like Assassin's Creed Origins, Dragon's Dogma, The Witcher 3, and Mass Effect Andromeda.

Same case with Persona 5, Final Fantasy XII, Dark Souls and Bloodborne.

Alexandros · Jan 22, 2018

Stripper13 said:
However when it comes to supporting devs and buying new games - especially single player style games, (think Yakuza, Nier, Gravity Rush, Persona), they just don't do it.

Yakuza - no PC or Xbox version
Nier - stealth PC release, no Xbox version
Gravity Rush - no PC or Xbox version
Persona - no PC or Xbox version

If single-player games aren't selling very well, developers and publishers aren't doing themselves any favors by willingly limiting the target audience. Customers are on many platforms and all the big GaaS games are available on all of them, usually simultaneously.

Necron · Jan 22, 2018

Hit the nail on the head and it makes me sad.

I blame the audience at the end of the day.

Gerwant · Jan 22, 2018

Alexandros said:
Yakuza - no PC or Xbox version
Nier - stealth PC release, no Xbox version
Gravity Rush - no PC or Xbox version
Persona - no PC or Xbox version

If single-player games aren't selling very well, developers and publishers aren't doing themselves any favors by willingly limiting the target audience. Customers are on many platforms and all the big GaaS games are available on all of them, usually simultaneously.

Lol at Gravity Rush on that list.

FrostyLemon · Jan 22, 2018

At the end of the day, if the gameplay is addictive and fun then people will want to go out and experience that for themselves. Youtube is never going to be able to replicate that experience. An LP let's you experience the story and the action, but you aren't getting any satisfaction from your own input. If the gameplay is compelling, then I don't think game devs have much to worry about when it comes to Youtube.

Oddish1 · Jan 22, 2018

ADee said:
I may be super stupid, but why can Nintendo make large single player games and only have to sell one million of a game and still make profit? (I know they don't have to pay the 30% tax the third party does but that only increases the amount of games to have sold to 1.3 million). Xenoblade gets sequals, Bayonetta, Kirby, Yoshi. I know they aren't AAA games but if Nintendo can make 5-6 of those games a year, why doesn't other publishers?

Because Nintendo's profits aren't solely reliant on making a profit on the games themselves. They also make a profit on hardware sales so they are incentived to make those games to help sell hardware, Sony does this too. And like you said third parties have to pay more to have a game on platform than the platform holder, but this also means that it makes sense for Nintendo to make Xenoblade to get JRPG fans on the system, so they'll buy Disgaea and SMT and the more those games sell the more Nintendo gets money from their sales.

EDIT: Also Nintendo has cultivated a certain audience. Kirby and Yoshi are well established to Nintendo fans and their games do well on Nintendo hardware. This probably isn't the case if they were on, say, the Xbox One.

BraXzy · Jan 22, 2018

I played Breath of the Wild, and I probably just need to go back to it on a long flight or something, because so much about connecting with a video game is it being at the right time for me. It feels like I went on a date with a really awesome person, who I thought was really attractive, and I was like, "I'm not really ready for this right now."

This rings so true for me. Just in general I often find myself wanting to play a game, sit down and boot it up all hyped and then I'm almost passively playing, barely taking it in and not enjoying the experience. Sometimes it really is just about timing it right.

Nauren · Jan 22, 2018

I buy these all of the time. I'm a very story driven gamer.

Alexandros · Jan 22, 2018

Gerwant said:
Lol at Gravity Rush on that list.

I know it is exclusive but it has served its purpose as that. It could be given a second wind with at least a PC release.

Gerwant · Jan 22, 2018

Alexandros said:
I know it is exclusive but it has served its purpose as that. It could be given a second wind with at least a PC release.

Dude, Gravity Rush is first party game by Sony Japan Studio.

pswii60 · Jan 22, 2018

Alexandros said:
Yakuza - no PC or Xbox version
Nier - stealth PC release, no Xbox version
Gravity Rush - no PC or Xbox version
Persona - no PC or Xbox version

If single-player games aren't selling very well, developers and publishers aren't doing themselves any favors by willingly limiting the target audience. Customers are on many platforms and all the big GaaS games are available on all of them, usually simultaneously.

Gravity Rush is first party, Yakuza and Persona primarily targeted at Japan (hence no Xbox), and Nier Automata isn't a linear game (and likely had some Sony bucks to keep it exclusive).

BBboy20 · Jan 22, 2018

A lot of folks didn't understand what we were doing with Uncharted at the time. People asked, "Why are we supposed to care about a guy in a T-shirt and jeans? We need mascot characters, like Kratos." And I just had to repeat: "You're going to have to trust me. You're going to have to trust me. You're going to have to trust me."

I feel like this is a litmus test on what a gamer wants out of a game.

KORNdog · Jan 22, 2018

Filament Star said:
She's right, most gamers aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is and it gets annoying sometimes. People say they want things but aren't actually willing to support them.

they have to actually be appealing though, not only in regards to quality (plenty of great games sell poorly no matter if they're SP, MP or both) but in terms of catering to consumer demands at the time. no-one should be expected to buy any old shit just because it's single player for the sole purpose of sending a message to publishers that they're still popular.

i mean, no-one has issues buying last of us, breath of the wild, mario odyssey or uncharted etc. but is anyone really surprised when a game like mass effect andromeda (a game that was demo'd terribly prior to release and released half finished) sells poorly? should that really be seen as evidence single player games aren't worth making?

not everything everyone ever makes will be a multimillion selling success story. failure is just as much a part of the industry as any other. what's important is how you react to it and how you read into why it failed. it shouldn't be "lets blame everything else for our games failings". if the game you expected to sell 20 million is half finished garbage, then maybe...just maybe THAT's the reason it didn't sell. not because the market isn't there for the genre, the franchise or single player focused games in general.

esserius · Jan 22, 2018

KORNdog said:
not everything everyone ever makes will be a multimillion selling success story. failure is just as much a part of the industry as any other. what's important is how you react to it and how you read into why it failed. it shouldn't be "lets blame everything else for our games failings". if the game you expected to sell 20 million is half finished garbage, then maybe...just maybe THAT's the reason it didn't sell. not because the market isn't there for the genre, the franchise or single player focused games in general.

The modern game industry is still putting all their eggs in one basket. And it's not really working out all that well.

Which was obvious ten years ago, but inertia's a powerful thing.

Bulebule · Jan 22, 2018

TheRedSnifit said:
This is entirely the fault of the industry, who spent years - especially the last decade - shoving a graphical arms race down our throats. And now that it's reached the point that it's unsustainable we're suddenly told that it's the consumers' (and I guess Twitch's???) fault, huh.

Consumers demand this because it is what the industry, including Naughty Dog - especially Naughty Dog - has been feeding them.

While they definitely have added their ingredients to the soup, consumers need to sometimes settle for less, as much as it normally wouldn't make any sense. They need to understand that not every game is or will have same level in graphical quality.

texhnolyze · Jan 22, 2018

KORNdog said:
they have to actually be appealing though, not only in regards to quality (plenty of great games sell poorly no matter if they're SP, MP or both) but in terms of catering to consumer demands at the time. no-one should be expected to buy any old shit just because it's single player for the sole purpose of sending a message to publishers that they're still popular.

i mean, no-one has issues buying last of us, breath of the wild, mario odyssey or uncharted etc. but is anyone really surprised when a game like mass effect andromeda (a game that was demo'd terribly prior to release and released half finished) sells poorly? should that really be seen as evidence single player games aren't worth making?

not everything everyone ever makes will be a multimillion selling success story. failure is just as much a part of the industry as any other. what's important is how you react to it and how you read into why it failed. it shouldn't be "lets blame everything else for our games failings". if the game you expected to sell 20 million is half finished garbage, then maybe...just maybe THAT's the reason it didn't sell. not because the market isn't there for the genre, the franchise or single player focused games in general.

You have a point, but you chose a bad example. Mass Effect Andromeda is not a linear game by any means.

I'd choose Bethesda games as the prime examples. They're considered good games, GOTY worthy, even. But they didn't sell that well.

Why? Maybe it's as you said, they're not THAT good. But that leads to another problem. Does the industry only allow GOTY-tier single player AAA games nowadays?

rras1994 · Jan 22, 2018

KORNdog said:
they have to actually be appealing though, not only in regards to quality (plenty of great games sell poorly no matter if they're SP, MP or both) but in terms of catering to consumer demands at the time. no-one should be expected to buy any old shit just because it's single player for the sole purpose of sending a message to publishers that they're still popular.

i mean, no-one has issues buying last of us, breath of the wild, mario odyssey or uncharted etc. but is anyone really surprised when a game like mass effect andromeda (a game that was demo'd terribly prior to release and released half finished) sells poorly? should that really be seen as evidence single player games aren't worth making?

not everything everyone ever makes will be a multimillion selling success story. failure is just as much a part of the industry as any other. what's important is how you react to it and how you read into why it failed. it shouldn't be "lets blame everything else for our games failings". if the game you expected to sell 20 million is half finished garbage, then maybe...just maybe THAT's the reason it didn't sell. not because the market isn't there for the genre, the franchise or single player focused games in general.

Mass Effect Andromeda was financially sucessful - EA mentioned it doing well in it's financial reports. And again, they are talking about linear games - MEA and BOTW aren't linear, they are open world. Last of us, Uncharted and Mario Odyssey are first party which means they don't have to pay a 30 % cut to the platform holder, meaning they don't have to sell nearly as much to become profitable.

Deleted member 3010 · Jan 22, 2018

I can't really agree with her as I'm part of those that actually buy the games day 1. :P

Dr. Caroll · Jan 22, 2018

KORNdog said:
is anyone really surprised when a game like mass effect andromeda (a game that was demo'd terribly prior to release and released half finished) sells poorly? should that really be seen as evidence single player games aren't worth making.

We don't know specifically how ME: Andromeda sold, except that it was #7 at US retail in 2017, outselling Madden NFL 18, NBA 2K17, and Resident Evil 7. We have zero clue how Andromeda sold on PC because Origin sales are not disclosed. Just because the game's DLC was cancelled doesn't mean that ME: Andromeda sold poorly. Game development is far more complex than that.

The idea ME: Andromeda was some kind of disaster in terms of sales is really one of those things rooted in people WANTING to believe it was a disaster.

esserius · Jan 22, 2018

Bulebule said:
While they definitely have added their ingredients to the soup, consumers need to sometimes settle for less, as much as it normally wouldn't make any sense. They need to understand that not every game is or will have same level in graphical quality.

Or you could just, you know, stop marketing hardware and graphical performance and market actual games.

Deleted member 4044 · Jan 22, 2018

Publishers need to look at Rocket League and PUBG and realize that the issue with the $60 price point is that its too high, not too low. Not every game has to retail for $60, and it can actually help sales by becoming an impulse buy. Gamers love playing games when they're new, hence the whole Day 1 and pre-order culture - they end up watching story-based linear games on Twitch and Youtube because they can't afford them, or are unsure if they would like them.

I wasn't sure that PUBG would be enjoyable for me, but $30 is a lot easier to cough up on a gamble than $60. I realize I'm using two multiplayer/GaaS titles to make my point, but that's because nobody tries to experiment with price for single-player games. For example, what if a game of Resident Evil 7's scope and length sold for $40 at launch?

Patapuf · Jan 22, 2018

esserius said:
The modern game industry is still putting all their eggs in one basket. And it's not really working out all that well.

Which was obvious ten years ago, but inertia's a powerful thing.

I mean, the industry just had it's best year ever.

And 2017 was a good year in terms of quality too. On all budget levels.

PtM · Jan 22, 2018

GSR said:
This is an excerpt from a Polygon discussion between Amy Hennig and Sean Vanaman (Firewatch), which is really worth a read in full.

Amy Hennig: Either you make something with lower fidelity, or —

Sean Vanaman: Nintendo is kicking everyone's ass that way, right?

Amy Hennig: Right.

Sean Vanaman: Look at the console. The game you were developing wouldn't have been able to run on the Nintendo Switch, and when you see games with incredibly high fidelity being ported to it, it's a nightmare. NBA 2K18 had to have a huge patch to even be playable. It's now the fastest-selling console of all time in America. And Mario and Zelda just did crazy, crazy, crazy numbers.

Amy Hennig: End-of-the-year game awards, it's all Zelda and Mario, right?

Man, screw the people clamouring for full voice acting and shit in Zelda.

Filament Star · Jan 22, 2018

KORNdog said:
they have to actually be appealing though, not only in regards to quality (plenty of great games sell poorly no matter if they're SP, MP or both) but in terms of catering to consumer demands at the time. no-one should be expected to buy any old shit just because it's single player for the sole purpose of sending a message to publishers that they're still popular.

i mean, no-one has issues buying last of us, breath of the wild, mario odyssey or uncharted etc. but is anyone really surprised when a game like mass effect andromeda (a game that was demo'd terribly prior to release and released half finished) sells poorly? should that really be seen as evidence single player games aren't worth making?

not everything everyone ever makes will be a multimillion selling success story. failure is just as much a part of the industry as any other. what's important is how you react to it and how you read into why it failed. it shouldn't be "lets blame everything else for our games failings". if the game you expected to sell 20 million is half finished garbage, then maybe...just maybe THAT's the reason it didn't sell. not because the market isn't there for the genre, the franchise or single player focused games in general.

I'm taking about good games though. Like someone brought up how Bethesda's games are great but no one bought them. Or my example of people not willing to but NieR even though it was so loved.

Death Penalty · Jan 22, 2018

I think it's more likely that the enthusiast voices calling for linear story-driven games are actually buying those games, it's just that such enthusiasts are a vocal but unfortunately small group. Sales are being driven by casual consumers who don't ask for much of anything. Enthusiasts just don't drive the market, and they're the ones asking for those sorts of experiences.

Nightside · Jan 22, 2018

I'm really curious to know the budget that Nintendo used for odyssey and BOTW (I know Zelda isn't linear but still can be counted as AAA)

Deleted member 24118 · Jan 22, 2018

Bulebule said:
While they definitely have added their ingredients to the soup, consumers need to sometimes settle for less, as much as it normally wouldn't make any sense. They need to understand that not every game is or will have same level in graphical quality.

This is a tough sell after developers spent decades telling customers that the most important part of games are better graphics, better physics, better sounds, better stories, better acting, more explosions, more more more to try and price each other out of the market. Now they're finding that they've priced themselves out of it.

This isn't a charity. If publishers release games people don't think are worth $60, then people aren't going to pay $60. People aren't going to buy games for the sake of buying games because a bunch of megacorps' business strategies are backfiring.

Staticneuron · Jan 22, 2018

Oddish1 said:
Star Wars is a licensed game that EA spent tons of cash on just for the rights and are heavily relying to help them turn a profit. No kidding they're going to be risk averse on it. The fact linear story games are considered 'risky' should tell you what you need to know. No one is saying consumers dislike linear games, they're saying consumers aren't buying them, and when they do, aren't buying them at full price. And looking at the data, they're not wrong.

And that is why included Söderlund quote in a post following the one you quoted, because that is NOT what EA is saying. They did not talk about sales, nor risk. And it is important to point out because it is EA's comment that reignited the conversations about this topic this generation. They want to move towards games as a service and argue value proposition ob behalf of customers. And again, the proof is in the games they released themselves. The problem is with the framing. And as always people will invest in any type of game, linear or not, depending on the quality, appeal, and presentation. The idea you are pushing that a Star Wars type game that sounds like it is similar to uncharted, and helmed by Amy, is so risky of an idea that they needed to cancel it years into development, really sounds like you are just trying to go to bat for EA.

sora87 · Jan 22, 2018

Retroarnold said:
I must be out of touch, but are there really that many people who prefer watching somebody play through a whole game on Twitch/YouTube, rather than actually play the game and experience it their self?

Just look at The Last Guardian, let's plays got millions upon millions of views. Definitely didn't sell millions upon millions sadly.

ClarkusDarkus · Jan 22, 2018

I'll be honest, In this day and age i do watch Twitch streamers and only play games that are co-op on the the ps4.

Saying that the SP games i have played have all been in VR. I just can't be bothered to play certain SP games unless it's a new way to play them, And that is VR.

I tried giving Dragon age a go, Then Mass effect, And i gave them both up about halfway through, I really struggle to motivate myself to play them.

I think the last game i completed SP wise on the TV, Was Deus Ex mankind.

Alexandros · Jan 22, 2018

Gerwant said:
Dude, Gravity Rush is first party game by Sony Japan Studio.

I know. I don't think there's any harm in trying to salvage the IP by releasing more versions.

pswii60 said:
Gravity Rush is first party, Yakuza and Persona primarily targeted at Japan (hence no Xbox), and Nier Automata isn't a linear game (and likely had some Sony bucks to keep it exclusive).

These games deserve a bigger audience in my opinion. None of these obstacles sound insurmountable.

KORNdog · Jan 22, 2018

texhnolyze said:
But that leads to another problem. Does the industry only allow GOTY-tier single player AAA games nowadays?

maybe in the sense that the movie industry "only" allows for massive budget hollywood blockbusters. there will always be smaller teams, making smaller movies, with smaller expectations and smaller budgets. that's where arthouse cinema comes in, or indie movies. the same way we have indie games made by indie developers. they can find success with 100,000 sales as opposed to 10,000,000 needed by a AAA title to be deemed "successful". but the same rules apply imo... if the games not great, or not appealing to the gaming masses at the time for whatever reason, then it will rightly fail. that doesn't mean people don't want indie games, or any sequels within that IP...it just means they don't want that particular one. devs and publishers need to understand that.

TitanicFall · Jan 22, 2018

The market will eventually reach a point of over-saturation with multi-player games though.

Stitches · Jan 22, 2018

That's a scary ass future if this trend continues. I rarely buy multiplayer games now mainly because of all the lootbox crap, and playing single player games have always been my main focus.
I remember when Fallout 4 came out, someone I went to school with was watching someone play it on youtube. When I asked him why he would do that he said it was just because he didn't have enough time to play a lot of games. I remember him doing the same for MGSV.

Stone Ocean · Jan 22, 2018

People buy story based games, there just isn't enough interest to make gigantic productions viable. AAA budgets have become too big for a couple million sales.

Deleted member 37739 · Jan 22, 2018

Well, speaking purely for myself, one has to wonder how the most successful cosnole of the generation - the PS4 - is managing to stay afloat by publishing a string of incredibly high-production value, single-player games (arguably the highest production values anywhere in console space) not to mention wild experiments with new, largely solo mediums like VR, while it's long-time competitor has focused more online multiplayer games and enjoyed far less traction...

Vinc · Jan 22, 2018

They're some of my favorite games, but think of when you were a teenager with very little income. If you were presented with a game like GTA and a game like Dishonored to last you through the summer, which one would you buy vs which one would you watch on Youtube?

When both are the same price, the choice is easy for someone with low income. That's a sad reality.

deussupreme · Jan 22, 2018

She would have an argument if developers weren't making record breaking profits with pay to win and loot box schemes. Also, I don't mind the prices of games going up, but let's not pretend that profit margins aren't bigger in the digital age where the retailers and distribution shares of the profits aren't cut out.

ry-dog · Jan 22, 2018

Indie games might not be as flashy as AAA games, but they've really been filling that itch for me this generation. I think hell blade was a glimpse into a upcoming AA indie future, who knows when that will be, but there's clearly a market for it. We don't need $100 million dollar single player games

Patapuf · Jan 22, 2018

RunesmithCaryll said:
Well, speaking purely for myself, one has to wonder how the most successful cosnole of the generation - the PS4 - is managing to stay afloat by publishing a string of incredibly high-production value, single-player games (arguably the highest production values anywhere in console space) not to mention wild experiments with new, largely solo mediums like VR, while it's long-time competitor has focused more online multiplayer games and enjoyed far less traction...

It does so by releasing earlier, for 100$ less and being more powerful than the competition and without the massive PR disaster of course.

It's not like the best selling PS4 games aren't in their majority MP focused service games.

And it's not like games like sunset overdive or quantum break didn't flop.

Lost · Jan 22, 2018

Well, uh, yeah.

Nobody wants to buy a 10-15 hour singleplayer-only game for $60.

You need to have content! Co-op! Multiplayer!

Like The Last of Us & Uncharted!

Dr. Caroll · Jan 22, 2018

RunesmithCaryll said:
Well, speaking purely for myself, one has to wonder how the most successful cosnole of the generation - the PS4 - is managing to stay afloat by publishing a string of incredibly high-production value, single-player games (arguably the highest production values anywhere in console space) not to mention wild experiments with new, largely solo mediums like VR, while it's long-time competitor has focused more online multiplayer games and enjoyed far less traction...

The best selling games on the PS4 are overwhelmingly third party and overwhelmingly open world/non-linear and/or multiplayer oriented.

Yuuber · Jan 22, 2018

Hamster Plugin said:
Wolfenstein 2 launched at the end of October. Base game is €60 on Steam (around €50 on retail) and the season pass is €25.

One month later I got the Digital Deluxe version for €30 which has the game and the season pass. No DLC was even released yet at that time.

Publishers are actively making it not worth buying their games at launch, so there will be more people waiting for sales.

Well, yes. Doom was so heavily discounted despite being a critical and (maybe) commercial success I waited a bit for Wolfeinstein and soon found the game at almost 50% off.

DSP · Jan 22, 2018

Watching part is very accurate. Watching someone you know playing a game makes it very easy to tell whether you want that game or not and if it's a linear story focused game, you can just tag along with the stream and never bother buying it. I think it's a requirement for a game to have fun open ended mechanics to do well, not necessarily online but something you'd want to do yourself and not just watch, this factor usually ends up being some kind of online game because it's different every time but games like Zelda or Dark Souls do have that too. I imagine a game like Detroit is going to perform way worse than previous QD games, people can just watch it on their PS4 straight from twitch!

There will be plenty single player games but they need to aim for something that can be played indefinitely. GTA, Skyrim and similar. The concept of sp 'campaigns' is obsolete.

esserius · Jan 22, 2018

Patapuf said:
I mean, the industry just had it's best year ever.

And 2017 was a good year in terms of quality too. On all budget levels.

I wouldn't say sales alone is really an indicator of an industry's health. I pretty strongly disagree about quality, but while that's debatable, the hours being worked and people living at their jobs isn't.

StereoVSN · Jan 22, 2018

The conclusion sounds about right for linear SP AAA games. SP games can still sell as demonstrated by a number of titles, some recently, but none of them are linear or short.

Uncharted 4 can take 15-25 hours to beat and that's perhaps the most successful AAA $60+ linear title outside maybe Mario Odyssey that came out recently.

Fallout 4, Witcher 3, DA Inquisition, GTA 5,both Tomb Raiders, Far Cry, Watch Dogs 1/2, etc... none of these are linear or short SP games.

For other examples, P5 or Nier are considered successful with 2 mil of sales, but these are lengthy games and not AAA.

It's just not worth the risk to AAA publishers to sponsors a linear, shorter experience that will cost $60 mil - $100 mil when they can do something more profitable with both money and staff.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I think Let's Play Videos on YouTube that just basically post the whole game are also probably detrimental to sales (those that present interesting snippets and commentary on the other hand could be helpful).

That's not going to affect say longer RPGs or fighting games but I can't help but think that it's not good for those 6-10 hour linear story oriented games

Dr. Caroll · Jan 22, 2018

There's a reason why GTA V was the #3 best selling game of 2017 in the UK. Open world sandbox games with extremely popular online components with regular updates can have essentially indefinite legs. As much as people detest GTA Online for being a greedy, grind-filled monstrosity, it is a gigantic money spinner for Rockstar Games, which is why Red Dead Redemption 2 has such a huge online focus. (This is not new. The immense success of stuff like Team Fortress 2 is in no small part responsible for the death of Valve making linear singleplayer FPS games.)

seansmith9322 · Jan 22, 2018

Arcinferno said:
https://wccftech.com/hennig-people-ask-story-based-games/

Amy Hennig (former creative director of Naughty Dog) talks about the current state of the video game industry

I completely agree with the last statement. People have the wait until it goes on sale mentality and then when it does go on sale the game isn't the talk of the Town so nobody gets it.

Amy Hennig: People ask for linear Story-Based Games but aren’t necessarily buying them

▲ Legend ▲

Chicken Chaser

One Winged Slayer

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