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Tiamant

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,361
Anaitgames just published this article by the wonderful Marta Trivi. It's all in Spanish but I'll translate some excerpts. You can find the whole article here

Metroid was originally planned to have twice as many bosses as there are in the game and almost twice as many cinematics and that was unmanageable, it was impossible. The negotiation of this other cut was led by a programming manager who interceded with Nintendo because we couldn't meet the deadlines. There was no time because, besides, we don't do crunch. This man was the dike between Nintendo and us. He saved our lives.

The development of Metroid Dread was quite chaotic. Many times, giving me directions, my lead and the game director would contradict each other and this was always paid for by the workers," says a former programmer. "There is talent but many times it is not in the best positions. They manage people very badly and things come out with a lot of sweat and tears". This same, and the bad atmosphere that derives from this management, is something that a former artist also points out: "They don't trust the worker at all and it shows. You don't feel valued. The bad atmosphere is constant and it's very tense, in general." Talking to some of those involved in what has already become the highest rated Spanish game in history, there is a feeling that its development was not always a rewarding experience.

The most recent controversy regarding MercurySteam and the development of Metroid Dread has come in relation to an article published in Vandal in which several former employees of the studio show their frustration at not appearing in the credits of the Nintendo game. In relation to the absence of several workers, the studio has assured that the company's policy states that only employees who have remained in the studio for at least 25% of the development time are credited: "The studio's policy requires that anyone must work on the project at least 25% of the time, of the total development of the game, to appear in the final credits", we read in the text, "of course, exceptions are sometimes made when exceptional contributions are made".

Nevertheless, and despite the fact that "the picture that has been posted [in private groups] of the "Metroid team" is missing at least 50 people," these former workers point out that in general there is a certain fear of speaking publicly about conditions within MercurySteam: "I think they play a bit on the fact that many people don't dare to speak publicly. I know two other people who are not properly accredited but I understand that they are afraid to complain because it looks like they will ruin your career". One colleague, points directly to the leadership as the cause of this fear: "The senior leadership knows a lot of people and they can wreck your career if they have a problem with you. They don't mind badmouthing you and screwing up your career and that's why people don't talk," he says.

I highly recommend to read the whole thing via Google Translate. There are lots of questionable stuff coming from MS in there.

Edit: not trying to downplay the credits issue, which I believe is very bad, but the article also talks about stuff like the studio's "punish culture" towards workers, low wages, MS not allowing work from home during the pandemic and the constant communication problems with management.
 
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Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,497
Spain
Spain is very small in terms of video game development so yes, I perfectly believe that it is impossible to speak about the subject publicly without negatively affecting your career.
 

Trunchisholm

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,403
Why is it so fucking hard to give people credit? Jesus Christ.
Because who'd then have time to sit through the credits? They're too long as it is!

/s
If people can have their name on the credits of some games after paying a paltry $10 on Kickstarter, there's no reason why someone working on the frigging game should be left out.

It is used as a punishment tool.
Absolutely awful. These companies need a lot more accountability. The have too much power to ruin the careers of their employees'.
 

Nights

Member
Oct 27, 2017
866
In a way I feel like Nintendo should just buy Mercury Steam. The only 2 games in the last 5 + years they've made (that I know of) have been Nintendo games, and both times they did their best work (imo), and if Nintendo went out of their way to fix Retro Studios Issues, I feel like they'd be extremely likely to fix Mercury Steams too. Especially if they can't do it themselves.

Credits are like one of the easiest things to add to a game. Come on. It also gives the people who are credited way more hiring potential. Its important.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,497
Spain
In a way I feel like Nintendo should just buy Mercury Steam. The only 2 games in the last 5 + years they've made (that I know of) have been Nintendo games, and both times they did their best work (imo), and if Nintendo went out of their way to fix Retro Studios Issues, I feel like they'd be extremely likely to fix Mercury Steams too. Especially if they can't do it themselves.
They made Spacelords.

It is normal that you have forgotten.
 

Trunchisholm

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,403
Fucking hell, nothing in Spain can work properly
This is far from a Spain-exclusive problem. Many developers use restrictive criteria when deciding who gets to be in the credits (e.g. being employed at the time the game ships, working at the company for a certain amount of time, etc.). It's good that we're having this conversation now, since this seems to be an industry-wide issue.
 

Luke88

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 29, 2018
2,560
Italy
MercurySteam gonna MercurySteam. Seems like that studio's been a bit of a mess for years.

www.vg247.com

Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 dev discusses troubled development, blames director for 'mediocre' game

Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 has received a mixed reaction from the press, prompting a developer of Mercury Steam to …
Yeah, I've heard from a couple of members of the press that had the opportunity to talk with one of the higher-ups at MercurySteam and they seem to agree that if this individual were to be removed it'd be much better for the sake of the company (this is just a matter of management, I'm not aware of any kind of abuse within the company)
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,710
United States
There are many facets of game development that are miserable, difficult, and painful. But man, not being credited on top of that just feels like the most insulting part of it. You give so much to make a game because that's what you want to do. That's what you want to be part of. You tolerate everything else for as long as you can because you want to make this game so much. And then they won't even acknowledge that you did it.

Incredibly shameful policy by MercurySteam. They should be embarrassed by this disgraceful behavior.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,661
In a way I feel like Nintendo should just buy Mercury Steam. The only 2 games in the last 5 + years they've made (that I know of) have been Nintendo games, and both times they did their best work (imo), and if Nintendo went out of their way to fix Retro Studios Issues, I feel like they'd be extremely likely to fix Mercury Steams too. Especially if they can't do it themselves.

Credits are like one of the easiest things to add to a game. Come on. It also gives the people who are credited way more hiring potential. Its important.

The problem is that MercurySteam already has 40% of its stakes owned by Nordisk Film, which I assume would make them more difficult to purchase.
 

Nights

Member
Oct 27, 2017
866
The problem is that MercurySteam already has 40% of its stakes owned by Nordisk Film, which I assume would make them more difficult to purchase.
Yeah I noticed that when I went to look at what games they've made. Unfortunate that it was just purchased last year too, but who knows. I do think overall they'd be in better hands with Nintendo, as they seem to actually set up support and changes for external companies they own, at least in the case of Retro from articles that have come out. In all reality, they should just be able to fix their shit internally, but unfortunately the world doesn't always work in the right way. Its sad to have to hope a good developer gets bought by a bigger company just so shit can be potentially fixed.
 

bytesized

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,882
Amsterdam
Anaitgames just published this article by the wonderful Marta Trivi. It's all in Spanish but I'll translate some excerpts. You can find the whole article here









I highly recommend to read the whole thing via Google Translate. There are lots of questionable stuff coming from MS in there.
Marta is the best, going to give this a good read right now!

Edit: Fucking hell, Mercury Steam... This is horrible
 
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Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,120
Everything about the final product feels so confident and lovingly crafted -- you would think the development cycle was a happy one. It's heartbreaking to hear it was a rough experience for many of the people involved.

As for the cut content, I won't lament that. Dread has no shortage of good content -- it's one of the most polished and perfectly paced games I've ever played on any system. So they can save the cut content for Metroid 6.

But please, improve your working conditions first, and credit *everyone* involved.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,601
I mentioned in the OT that the Varia Suit room almost certainly was intended to have a boss in it; it's structured like a boss room and it's a typically major upgrade.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the repeated bosses had originally been planned to be original ones too.
 

_zoipi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 23, 2017
2,377
Madrid
Just get Enric Álvarez out of that and put someone decent in charge. Everything smells like Enric still believes he's the spanish Hideo Kojima because he made a decent clone of God of War.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,120
I mentioned in the OT that the Varia Suit room almost certainly was intended to have a boss in it; it's structured like a boss room and it's a typically major upgrade.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the repeated bosses had originally been planned to be original ones too.
The silhouette of a certain Super Metroid boss in the background of Dairon (Draygon, in the test tube) makes me wonder if he may have been planned.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,915
CT
You can kinda tell that there were bosses cut in the back half of the game with some of the fights that get reused. It fits the game narratively to have those fights repeat but it's for sure an obvious development short cut. I'm glad MS was able to avoid crunch despite the other issues that happened behind the scenes.
 

Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,424
In a way I feel like Nintendo should just buy Mercury Steam. The only 2 games in the last 5 + years they've made (that I know of) have been Nintendo games, and both times they did their best work (imo), and if Nintendo went out of their way to fix Retro Studios Issues, I feel like they'd be extremely likely to fix Mercury Steams too. Especially if they can't do it themselves.

Credits are like one of the easiest things to add to a game. Come on. It also gives the people who are credited way more hiring potential. Its important.
It's not Nintendo's problem to fix. They're not going to just buy a studio because they did two games for them, on top of that to have to go out of their way to "fix" whatever is wrong with that particular workplace. Nintendo let much closer development partners of theirs go bankrupt like Alphadream, even though they probably had the opportunity to purchase that studio, which is not guaranteed with something like MercurySteam.

This is something MercurySteam will have to sort out itself, but all of this negative and toxic behavior coming out of there just makes it more likely that Nintendo will not continue to work with them.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,120
It's not Nintendo's problem to fix. They're not going to just buy a studio because they did two games for them, on top of that to have to go out of their way to "fix" whatever is wrong with that particular workplace. Nintendo let much closer development partners of theirs go bankrupt like Alphadream, even though they probably had the opportunity to purchase that studio, which is not guaranteed with something like MercurySteam.

This is something MercurySteam will have to sort out itself, but all of this negative and toxic behavior coming out of there just makes it more likely that Nintendo will not continue to work with them.
I think Dread's critical reception and commercial success will ensure Nintendo continues working with MercurySteam. Sakamoto is one of the Nintendo OGs, and he's quite smitten with the team. But my hope is that Dread's success will encourage Nintendo to work out some sort of arrangement that heads off these ethical quagmires.
 

Mary Celeste

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,171
sounds like some poor project management, it's pretty surprising the game turned out as well as it did. I'm glad they were able to avoid crunch.
 

Toño

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,039
Spain
Everything about the final product feels so confident and lovingly crafted -- you would think the development cycle was a happy one. It's heartbreaking to hear it was a rough experience for many of the people involved.

As for the cut content, I won't lament that. Dread has no shortage of good content -- it's one of the most polished and perfectly paced games I've ever played on any system. So they can save the cut content for Metroid 6.

But please, improve your working conditions first, and credit *everyone* involved.
MercurySteam? Improve the job conditions? The hell will be frozen before the leaders of the studio make changes to improve. Here in Spain know the studio's 'modus operandi' from a lot of years.
The best thing Nintendo can do is use Dread as template and search another studio. And what I just said hurts me a lot, because I'm very happy that my country made this game since we have very little accomplishements in this industry. Damn, we still remember lovingly the old mid 90's Commandos saga...
 

Recreate

Member
Sep 16, 2021
168
Any idea on the actual development time of this game. Obviously got announced over 10 years ago or whatever but we just found out it was releasing earlier this year. Just curious to know how long this game was actually worked on for for the switch.
 

Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,424
I think Dread's critical reception and commercial success will ensure Nintendo continues working with MercurySteam. Sakamoto is one of the Nintendo OGs, and he's quite smitten with the team. But my hope is that Dread's success will encourage Nintendo to work out some sort of arrangement that heads off these ethical quagmires.
Maybe, I do hope that with or without Nintendo that MercurySteam sorts it's shit out and stops having such toxic policies and people there. Nintendo could easily force them to at least credit all those missing in Dread, as for the future who knows. For their sake they should really reflect on this situation and make the necessary changes because I'm sure there are a bunch of other studios who would kill to be a close development partner of Nintendo trusted to work on a well known IP of theirs over multiple entries.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,120
MercurySteam? Improve the job conditions? The hell will be freezen before the leaders of the studio make changes to improve. Here in Spain know the studio's 'modus operandi' from a lot of years.
The best thing Nintendo can do is use Dread as template and search another studio. And what I just said hurts me a bit, because I'm very happy that my country made this game because we have very little accomplishements in this industry. Damn, we still remember dearly the old mid 90's Commandos saga...
I don't think they should abandon MercurySteam over this. If anything, Nintendo should throw its weight around to improve things. Make it part of the contract for the next one -- "we'll pay for you to develop a sequel, but we want you to ensure A, B and C with regards to treatment of employees, because we don't want bad publicity around one of our most high-profile games."
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,120
Goddammit. Sounds like the higher ups are absolute assholes.
It's usually a handful of jerks at the top who ruin everyone's day.

The people who actually made the game are clearly talented and passionate people. They put loads of heart into this game.

If the management at MercurySteam stays shit, the talent will eventually leave. So really, Nintendo should try to influence MercurySteam's management to do better, because if the talent is treated well, the talent will stay -- and if the talent stays, Nintendo will keep giving MercurySteam lucrative contracts to develop future games.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,826
Blablabla. Always the same story. New Mercury game comes out, shit does as well. Enric doesn't care because he knows it's radio noise that will stop in two weeks, tops. That's why nothing changes.

And Nintendo should just buy Mercury? Your American mentality that everything can be solved with cash is just pathetic. Nintendo? The same Nintendo that didn't allow work from home during the harshest moments of Covid in Spain because they feared leaks? That Nintendo?

The only real solution is to not buy products that have been made under unethical conditions. But who will give up their dear Metroid?
 

RadzPrower

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 19, 2018
6,040
As for the cut content, I won't lament that. Dread has no shortage of good content
I feel that's a symptom of their managerial problems. I work on teams like that where they want to push, push, push more things into their applications when the product they have is perfectly complete as-is. They try and add everything without considering the effort needed to actually include it and it ends up resulting in pushed deadlines and crunch. The sad part in my case specifically is that we're not a single release product...we will continue to support and update the software for years to come, so they could just hold off until a future release instead, but they just have the wrong mentality in terms of features and scope creep.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,497
Spain
Any idea on the actual development time of this game. Obviously got announced over 10 years ago or whatever but we just found out it was releasing earlier this year. Just curious to know how long this game was actually worked on for for the switch.
From what I've read, four years. So, just after Samus Returns
 

Toño

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,039
Spain
It's usually a handful of jerks at the top who ruin everyone's day.

The people who actually made the game are clearly talented and passionate people. They put loads of heart into this game.

If the management at MercurySteam stays shit, the talent will eventually leave. So really, Nintendo should try to influence MercurySteam's management to do better, because if the talent is treated well, the talent will stay -- and if the talent stays, Nintendo will keep giving MercurySteam lucrative contracts to develop future games.
Thats true, but the industry here in Spain is mostly really small indie studios. Then we have a bunch of satellite studios from mid and big editors and publishers. MercurySteam is the exception here, we can count all the mid-sized independent studios with the fingers of one hand, and they know that, they can work with these bad conditions because they know the talent dont have a lot of alternatives in this country.
 

Capricorn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
701
I already mentioned in the other thread how on top of everything else, salaries at Mercury are stupidly low for a AAA game studio (even compared to others in Spain), but just to reiterate the point:

This colleague, also considered "discordant", confirms the facts: "Bonuses have an NDA attached to them, and they don't want us to speak about them because then people will complain [...] Salaries are very low, around 25000€/year before taxes for Junior profiles and 28000€ for Senior ones. They bet on people staying simply because they were working on the most interesting game being developed in Spain, a Nintendo game.

Like, holy fucking shit. The salary for juniors is not too bad based on my experience (should definitely be higher), but such a small bump for senior profiles seems straight up insulting.
 
OP
OP
Tiamant

Tiamant

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,361
Just get Enric Álvarez out of that and put someone decent in charge. Everything smells like Enric still believes he's the spanish Hideo Kojima because he made a decent clone of God of War.

So much this. All the problems seems to stem from this man's ego. Everything I've heard from him gives me the impression of the classic Spanish "sobrado".
 

Vega

Member
Oct 28, 2017
106
MercurySteam? Improve the job conditions? The hell will be frozen before the leaders of the studio make changes to improve. Here in Spain know the studio's 'modus operandi' from a lot of years.
The best thing Nintendo can do is use Dread as template and search another studio. And what I just said hurts me a lot, because I'm very happy that my country made this game since we have very little accomplishements in this industry. Damn, we still remember lovingly the old mid 90's Commandos saga...

It's heartbreaking to know how many mismanaged talent we have in Spain. At least there's are a bunch of indie studios reasling crititically acclaimed games as Nomada, The Game Kitchen, Crema and much others.

But having a big AAA developer contributing to "videogame history" while being a good workplace would be amazing, not gonna lie.
 

Nights

Member
Oct 27, 2017
866
It's not Nintendo's problem to fix. They're not going to just buy a studio because they did two games for them, on top of that to have to go out of their way to "fix" whatever is wrong with that particular workplace. Nintendo let much closer development partners of theirs go bankrupt like Alphadream, even though they probably had the opportunity to purchase that studio, which is not guaranteed with something like MercurySteam.

This is something MercurySteam will have to sort out itself, but all of this negative and toxic behavior coming out of there just makes it more likely that Nintendo will not continue to work with them.
I largely agree with what you're saying, especially since Mercury Steam should fix its own problems. But I will say Nintendo purchased Retro after they did Prime and were working on Prime 2, and that was their history, AFAIK. So its not like its unreasonable. They also bought Monolith Soft when all they did was made Baten Kaitos and its sequel on Gamecube, with only those two games coming to a Nintendo system and published once with Namco and once with Nintendo. Its not impossible, and while I also see where you're coming with Alpha Dream, I am fairly confident in saying making a spin-off of a large series is probably less "proving" ground than a remake and brand new entry to a series co-developed with internal Nintendo developers. I'm not saying its likely or unlikely, it just is possible. I also am aware this Nintendo is a different one when they bought Retro/Monolith. And for the record, I also would have rather them buy Alpha Dream than let them die, as I quite liked their games, but it is what it is. Regardless of anything, someone needs to fix Mercury Steams problems, and I don't care who it is. I just like speculating.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,826
I already mentioned in the other thread how on top of everything else, salaries at Mercury are stupidly low for a AAA game studio (even compared to others in Spain), but just to reiterate the point:



Like, holy fucking shit. The salary for juniors is not too bad based on my experience (should definitely be higher), but such a small bump for senior profiles seems straight up insulting.


The wages are a fucking joke for that kind of position and living in Madrid.
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,603
That feel when I, a dude who changes around options and data on an HR website for a living, makes over twice what senior developers on a Game of the Year contender makes.

Pretty disgusting.
 

JasoNsider

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,140
Canada
In a way I feel like Nintendo should just buy Mercury Steam. The only 2 games in the last 5 + years they've made (that I know of) have been Nintendo games, and both times they did their best work (imo), and if Nintendo went out of their way to fix Retro Studios Issues, I feel like they'd be extremely likely to fix Mercury Steams too. Especially if they can't do it themselves.

Credits are like one of the easiest things to add to a game. Come on. It also gives the people who are credited way more hiring potential. Its important.

I think you have this backwards. If anything, issues like these should give a buyer pause. It should be a "clean up your mess, get shit straight, and maybe we'll talk" situation.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,120
Yeah, I recall reading that Retro Studios experienced massive crunch on Prime 1, but then Nintendo bought Retro and the work environment was much more relaxed for each game afterward.

Would be nice to see that happen here, but who knows if Nintendo would want to buy or if MercurySteam's owners would want to sell.
 
Actually, I can believe that Dread is visibly missing a few things. The most suspect part is inconsistency in cinematics - the 2d art feels rough and rushed, like placeholders for the in-engine scenes used elsewhere.

I was aware of MercurySteam's history before this though - I had no idea what the internal structure of the studio was like these days. Hadn't heard anything damning during the release period of Samus Returns.