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Analogue Super NT - orders and shipping(Now you're playing with SUPER POWER)
- Thread starter Redneckerz
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Here's an article from byuu about this matter, to provide a different perspective:
https://t.co/cwtIXtTMqF
Spoilers: he's not amused, is not properly credited despite contributing to the Super NT FPGA Core, and he argues that despite inherent OS lag, his software solution is just as accurate.
well byuu, let's see higan run at full speed on a piece of hardware that costs as much as a Super Nt with the same low latency.
spoiler: not happening
Prove me wrong.
Oh and Super Nt won't force some kind of weird folder structure on the user, so there's that.
No one who knows what's up would dare challenge how accurate higan's emulation is, but that's not what this is about.
Also, it's Polygon. Not exactly the high watermark for game journalism.
spoiler: not happening
Prove me wrong.
Oh and Super Nt won't force some kind of weird folder structure on the user, so there's that.
No one who knows what's up would dare challenge how accurate higan's emulation is, but that's not what this is about.
Also, it's Polygon. Not exactly the high watermark for game journalism.
Byuu is correct. FPGAs are not necessarily more accurate. The real reason for the level of accuracy is Kevtris. Without Kevtris something like the SNES is not getting turned around at this level of accuracy within 12 months.
Does he have a point then? Because even in the options of the super nt, there are presets that add lag!? For a machine hailed as identical to the original hardware, why on earth are there laggy options in there? Its supposed to be lag free period.
It's the same deal as Game Boy Interface. There are options depending on your image quality goals versus latency.
Old news.
byuu is salty.
I've finally come to the realization that he is the Neil Degrasse Tyson of the emulation scene.
byuu's totally correct. I thought it was weird that the Polygon article name dropped ZSNES of all things. One of the oldest, least accurate emulators.
The shared knowledge and research is what allows this product and emulators like higan to exist in the first place. Analogue didn't produce the Super NT out of thin air.
Both the Super NT and higan are absolutely fantastic options that serve similar but different purposes, and we shouldn't pit them against each other.
The shared knowledge and research is what allows this product and emulators like higan to exist in the first place. Analogue didn't produce the Super NT out of thin air.
Both the Super NT and higan are absolutely fantastic options that serve similar but different purposes, and we shouldn't pit them against each other.
On the one hand, Polygon totally threw emulation under the bus in that fluff piece, which is kinda lame. 90% of people would probably be fine with a pi or hacked wii running Snes9x. Hell, even I'm hard pressed to notice many differences between a well configured emulator and the real deal. Emulation has come a long way since ZSNES was a thing (as nostalgic as I am about it... I remember the good old days of ZSNES getting updated every other week during my summer vacation).
On the other hand, byuu and Squarepusher (one of the main devs of retroarch) are such divas. The only time I ever see them talk is to whine or criticize something. That they are salty over this is no surprise to me. Their work is amazing, and I really do appreciate their contributions, but on a personal level I can't stand them.
To me, the Super NT represents a great turnkey solution to the problem of aging hardware. No special cables, no upscalers, no menus that I have to navigate through (beyond setup, that is). I just slap in my cart of choice, hit the power, and start playing. That kind of solution is worth $200 to me, and if analogue (or another company) can offer something similar with consoles like the Genesis, 64, and PS1, I'll choose that over an emulator any day.
On the other hand, byuu and Squarepusher (one of the main devs of retroarch) are such divas. The only time I ever see them talk is to whine or criticize something. That they are salty over this is no surprise to me. Their work is amazing, and I really do appreciate their contributions, but on a personal level I can't stand them.
To me, the Super NT represents a great turnkey solution to the problem of aging hardware. No special cables, no upscalers, no menus that I have to navigate through (beyond setup, that is). I just slap in my cart of choice, hit the power, and start playing. That kind of solution is worth $200 to me, and if analogue (or another company) can offer something similar with consoles like the Genesis, 64, and PS1, I'll choose that over an emulator any day.
Byuu is definitely right, but to me the experience with the super NT will always be better than Higan, doesn't mean necessarily "more accurate", but less lag, easier to use etc
Polygon might be "wrong", but Higan isn't the center of the world either, this article, TO ME, is supposed to reach the kind of ppl that use/got the snes classic mini (4millions last time I checked) or ppl using the 1st emulator that pops up when you type in "snes" or "super nes" in google play on android.
Ethusiasts, like use know what Byuu means, and I think the only way to get his point across to more ppl than us today is with big money to market something. (which is sad, but I digress)
What's kinda funny to me is Byuu pointing out that Higan is held out because windows is not a real time system...yeah ? no sh*t ? yet YOU chose to built you emu on it. It's like building a tower on a boat out in the sea and when ppl argue it's shaking constantly you argue beck that...well, it's because of that damned boat not you building expertise !! xD
That being said, Byuu should just realise less ppl would care about his point than he thinks, look how many ppl never care about the Retron5 being an android box built on stolen emulator code, or ppl that can't tell and frankly don't care about the difference between ZSnes and Higan, or a real snes and the snes classic mini.
Analogue is spending their ressources about educating ppl about the difference between those, just to make their product a "legitimate" one and a sought after one in an overcrowded market, it's not expected of them to do hardcore product placement ?
in the FPGA field, whatalternative is there to this close source snes simulator ? the verisnes is not out, nor is that japanese fpga snes, so...yeah, I'll just get what exists, tyvm.
Polygon might be "wrong", but Higan isn't the center of the world either, this article, TO ME, is supposed to reach the kind of ppl that use/got the snes classic mini (4millions last time I checked) or ppl using the 1st emulator that pops up when you type in "snes" or "super nes" in google play on android.
Ethusiasts, like use know what Byuu means, and I think the only way to get his point across to more ppl than us today is with big money to market something. (which is sad, but I digress)
What's kinda funny to me is Byuu pointing out that Higan is held out because windows is not a real time system...yeah ? no sh*t ? yet YOU chose to built you emu on it. It's like building a tower on a boat out in the sea and when ppl argue it's shaking constantly you argue beck that...well, it's because of that damned boat not you building expertise !! xD
That being said, Byuu should just realise less ppl would care about his point than he thinks, look how many ppl never care about the Retron5 being an android box built on stolen emulator code, or ppl that can't tell and frankly don't care about the difference between ZSnes and Higan, or a real snes and the snes classic mini.
Analogue is spending their ressources about educating ppl about the difference between those, just to make their product a "legitimate" one and a sought after one in an overcrowded market, it's not expected of them to do hardcore product placement ?
in the FPGA field, whatalternative is there to this close source snes simulator ? the verisnes is not out, nor is that japanese fpga snes, so...yeah, I'll just get what exists, tyvm.
While you're technically correct, most people already have a working PC, lowering the cost to a smooth 0$.
But sure, an FPGA's more efficient than using loads of CPU power. And don't get me wrong, I'm excited about the Super NT as much as the next guy / girl. It's like Aeana said, we shouldn't really think of them as competing products. Because they simply aren't.
Uh.. a 100$ used Dell Optiplex 9010 running Linux will run Higan in accuracy mode at full speed. (Disclaimer I own one)
Yup, they aren't, also to run an actual cart on Higan, you'll need a Retrode2 which is 65€ ish and not produced anymore, I think.
I've been using emulators since the mid-90's (NESticle, Silhouette, etc) and the barrier of the Mac/PC plus a real controller w/adapter, TV out video card, yadda yadda yadda, the SNES Classic Mini has been excellent in countless ways. Using Retroarch and BSNES/Higan, have been a PITA to use and even though the emulation was worse, ZSNES and SNES9x were better experiences. Wii emu is more enjoyable despite its flaws.
The SNT should be the best of both but I'm waiting to see how it performs.
The SNT should be the best of both but I'm waiting to see how it performs.
It literally takes 5 minutes to install batocera on a PC and turn it into something like an snes mini. (Or RecalBox, Lakka or whichever retro focused linux distrobyou may want)
It will also work out of the box with most controllers.
The entry barrier hasen't been a thing for years now
I can understand that, but, once you learned once how retroarch works it's pretty easy
at the same time I miss my OG xbox for that, it had a port of Snes9x and worked pretty well, also I had it on a CRT TV, so lag I guess was low, actually I wonder if the lag on the Xbox was lower than the windows version of snes9x.
The barrier isn't what it was (I've got a tiny/silent emu box running on CPU/GPU with HDMI that is pretty good). I've known about some of those but it still doesn't feel quite as smooth to me. Can't pinpoint what it is about it either. Just don't know.
I have an oXbox on a Sony WEGA and it is pretty nice. SNESmini and PCtoTV aside, I keep all my SD content on CRTs for the lag issue (even though my HDTV practically has none, at least discernible to me).
RA isn't as bad to me as I suppose I've made it sound but, something about it, just feels so frustrating compared to every single other emulator I've ever used and I don't know why. I kinda appreciate the RA hmod that is on the SNESmini but I only use that for one title.
All this aside, I'm trying not to be too hopeful, but the SNT really seems to be a great solution for a few things for SNES gaming in the more modern world.
I have full confidence that it's going to be top notch. With how well the NT Mini is for me, I can't imagine the Super NT would be a step back.
Just saw this. Sega console (my guess Megadrive), is Analogue's next system?
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._opens_up_on_the_super_nt_and_future_projects
"I'm a Sega kid. Who knows? Maybe we're already working on it"
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._opens_up_on_the_super_nt_and_future_projects
"I'm a Sega kid. Who knows? Maybe we're already working on it"
Seeing how Analog outsources development and seeing how a megadrive core for the Cyclone V has been in the works for a while already (and is prety far advanced albeit incomplete) it's probably their next "easy" step (along with PCE)
I would love a PCE more than MD, but obviously the Megadrive is easier to sell. Also, PCE without CD-ROM support would be very incomplete. I wonder how they would tackle that?
I think the idea is to allow folks to play their originals. So it either had to include a built in drive or allow users to connect an external USB one.
As many PCE/TG games I love, no CD (all CD versions) wouldn't just be incomplete, it's completely pointless. Kinda like saying the SNT will only support games made 1990~1994, but no real equivalent of course.
The TeamNeo one looks really cool, though. :D
I'm sure it will be, but I'm doing my best not to be hyped up in case it fails to meet my standards.
Those laggy options are actually for speed runners who need the weird stock SNES Hhz of 60.01 or whatever it is for their runs to count. Not something the general consumer will care about.
I'd say less "confirmed" than a heavy wink-wink-nudge-nudge. :P
Nah I've been checking as well, and following their twitter. Pretty sure they're waiting for the first batch to go out before taking more orders.
Well, it seems to be the most requested system if you check Twitter posts now that the SNES is taken care of. I wonder if they will use Kevtris again, or someone else already working on a Genesis core.
These are 2 different causes of lag. What's going on with the Super NT is the fact that the SNES doesn't out put at 60hz it actually outputs at 60.09hz, which modern TVs don't like over HDMI it seems. So Kevtris gives you a few ways to deal with this. The first option is to down clock the SNES by .15%, so that it ends up outputting at 60hz which gives you no lag. Then he has a mode that causes it to drop a frame like every so often, the end of effect of this is that it slowly builds up to 16ms of lag, then drops the frame and resets back to 0 ms of lag, but the SNES is not downclocked at all. Finally he has a full framebuffer option that always has 16ms of lag and same no downclocking.
Another company picked up the rights to it and has been manufacturing them again.
Fantastic explanation thanks! I think I'll play at 60fps mode.
Thanks very much for that! Finally I know, would the downclock of .15% be noticeable?
Just got mine put through. I went with the classic US version. I can't wait to get it. Gonna be awhile.
That's true. Does the system itself have to support it or it is just a matter of using a FreeSync monitor?
Got my SF on pre-order, saw their tweet just around the time you replied.
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