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Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,408
Normally, these people would say "who cares, it's just a video game" to complaints about over sexualization or excessive violence. Woman added to the next Battlefield? SJW propaganda and I will NOT stand for this. The audacity these developers have to more customization that has zero impact on the game, something that adds variety to character personalization.

Some people are fuggin loons man, holy shit.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,271
Gonna paste and edit a post from another recent thread since I think it's quite (and probably more) apt here:

Battlefield V's marketing is most definitely a mess. In the first few months of its marketing cycle all we've seen are:

- A reveal trailer that felt entirely tonally dissonant to what people expected. Also failed to actually explain anything about what the game was up to the point where some people (me including) were confused about what game mode we were actually seeing.
- Dice's response to the backlash passive aggressively lumping in everyone who had issues with the tone in the sexist asshole crowd. Of course a large percentage of the backlash came from idiotic "the SJWs!" folk but I personally found that the response to it unfairly squashed complaints about tone and that kind of thing does cause some resentment, especially among the more impressionable-but-not-actively-sexist crowds. I also don't like arguments that entirely rely on downplaying video-games as an artistic medium, but that's more a personal gripe than anything important.
- EA inviting a bunch of influencers to play the game and not allowing them to show anything from it, all whilst giving them literally no imagery to base their discussion around.
- E3 reveal that amounted to a short singleplayer cinematic (not even a trailer...), a short multiplayer trailer showing one map and then alpha footage from that same map
- Tons of closed alpha betas when your closest rival is having two very open betas. An open beta in September is way too late, especially since the Blackout beta will be out by then.

Then on top of that you've got:

- Tonal issues. From what little we've seen before I honestly could not tell you what the 'tone' of BFV is. The reveal trailer is a quip-filled Bad Company-like adventure. The E3 trailer is a serious character-driven wartime drama. The most recent trailer is a characterless action fiesta. Compare it to BF1 which, at least in its most public trailers, consistently presented itself as a serious war-time game with a focus on the individual soldier. You knew what game you were buying into whereas with BFV I don't know what exactly I'm buying (if I buy it). Now, of course, BF1 isn't like that at all (the War Stories tried and failed to have that tone) but we're not talking about the final product here, we're talking about the marketing (i.e. what gets people to buy the game).
- Gameplay fatigue. Since Battlefield 1 was pretty much just a WW2 game with a WW1 skin there's little to differentiate BFV in terms of gameplay 'feel', and that's what matters to the average consumer.
- The Release Date. Having the game sandwiched between Black Ops 4 and Red Dead 2 was not a good idea. Battlefield as a franchise simply doesn't have the power behind it to survive against those two juggernauts coming out right before and right after it. Personally I don't know what EA should have chosen but I do know that it should have chosen some time different.

As someone with at least some marketing knowledge I've got to say that Battlefield V is a very good case study in how not to market your game. I don't know whether it's hilarious or frustrating to see so many idiots pointing to "the women!" as the main excuse for why the game's supposed poor performance so far, but I guess it's more sad than anything.
 

a Question

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,218
the trailer clearly shows that this type around game has little less serious tone. So seeing a woman with a protez running around in this chaos does not seem out of place.
 

Davilmar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,264
And of course, the sewer that happens to be the YouTube comments demonstrate how much the criticisms are based on sexism and prejudice. Give me a break with this "forced intersectionality" bullshit, as if anyone cared about historical accuracy in these games.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,229
Lack of a beta so far, the absolute shitty way Battlefront 2 has been run, not really that much interest in Battlefield 1 which I've owned since launch all have combined to make me not really that interested in BF5.

Also on PC its really weird, why would I preorder when I could instead wait for EA Origin Access annual or whatever the hell its called, pay $100 and play it and Anthem at launch.

I can just wait for the reviews and see what people say and think, battlefield and honestly nothing from EA anymore feels like a game I have to preorder or play day 0, if anything their games feel like near shovelware that are best played later when they have half assed some fixes. Bioware and DICE both are studio names i have no real faith in anymore.
 

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
Do people really care that much that women are in it? I mean its a videogame. I mean when has battlefield ever truly been accurate. How silly.

It's more gamergate bullshit. Some of them are trying to be more subtle in stirring up their garbage, but if anyone says anything about "mah realism!" they're gamergaters, period. The BF subreddit is littered with them.
 

Shmunter

Banned
May 28, 2018
377
Haven't watched this video, but to me the original trailer was chock full of stupid. Looked like a cartoon, a comedy. It presented nothing like ww2 apart from some props in the background off a cacophony of colour and one liners. Remove BF5 from the title, insert BC3 and the internet rejoices.

The new trailer tones down on this total misfire and will help.
 

Heid

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,807
I mean, this was EA 18 years ago.
mv5bzmy3ywnkzwutn2iyzv8fiw.jpg

It's not a matter of "It's <current year>". Female characters in FPS games did not make anyone blink in the late 90s, early 2000s. Delta Force? Female playable characters. Rainbow 6? Female playable characters. Medal of Honor? Female protagonist. There were five FPS games in 2000 with female leads. Something changed in the mid 2000s. A demographic and ideological shift. DICE could have put female fighters in Battlefield 1942 and there would have been very little outrage. Of course some would have raised objections and questioned the game's balance of fun and historical accuracy. But those discussions are inevitable. Nothing like the current internet fury.

I think there's this very misleading idea that we started out dudebro and we're slowly getting "better". But it's really not that simple. Doom was originally supposed to have male and female protagonists. Tom Hall got kicked out, and we ended up with Doom Guy instead. But those protagonists ended up in Rise of the Triad, which was a reasonably popular game.

You know what? If Doom had featured a female protagonist, the public would not have cared in the 90s. They would have assumed Doom Girl was some Ellen Ripley figure. (Remember that Doom was originally based on Alien.) Fast forward to 2018, and something that would have been wholly uncontroversial in the 90s is suddenly a big deal. (Female protagonist in the low budget Doom movie attracts a lot of hate, for instance.) If the next Doom game had a female protagonist there would be so much petty internet outrage. Boycotts. Petitions. Hate mail. Something changed 10-15 years ago. Around the time the "teenage boy-slash-screaming-10-year-old" demographic became the primary focus for publishers. In particular, the FPS genre began to attract (and target through marketing and design changes such as removing female characters) a sort of hard to pin down "jock" demographic. Very competitive, very male, very American. That ended up shaping the FPS genre in a pretty extreme way. edit: Remember when Call of Duty games weren't all about America? I can. After Modern Warfare, the international aspect of Call of Duty was rapidly eroded. You might have non-American team-mates, but you were almost always a red blooded American man.
Noticed the same thing in movies? As you mentioned, Ripley, Sarah Connor, Hermione Granger, I should be asleep I can't think right now, but I feel like over a decade ago a female character kicked ass it was okay. Now theres a few examples gives me vibes of being too self aware or something. Maybe its a placebo/nostalgia. Or maybe the internet just wasnt around to immortalize the opinions of all the dumbasses against it lol

I don't 100% agree on your Doom example at the end though? I feel like theres a canon female character (can't remember the name) that would work fine. Its all about execution, retconning doomguy as a female would obviously trigger people but putting a female character wouldn't be 'huge'. Frankly, for Doom there shouldn't be any difference in the game whatsoever. I don't want a praetor boob armor or a doomgirl to be recognizable because shes shorter or thinner or anything. Should look identical. Should be a portal to alternative Doom dimensions and doomguy or doomgirl walks through like who the fuck are you and then they swap shotguns and inspect them and nod and just get to demon killing ok thats my dream vision for doom co-op and now I've gone on a doom tangent and now I've typed doom doo many dimes.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,271
the trailer clearly shows that this type around game has little less serious tone. So seeing a woman with a protez running around in this chaos does not seem out of place.

I'd argue that the reveal trailer does not in any way do a good job of establishing the game's more comedic tone. It rests in the 'uncanny valley' of tone with "serious war drama" on one side and "fun buddy comedy set in WW2" on the other other, and I think that's why many people were put off by it.

EDIT: To make my point clearer, take a look at the reveal trailer for Bad Company 1:



And compare it to BFV's reveal trailer. One is comedic whilst the other is just... not as serious as it could be? I honestly don't know how to succinctly describe BFV's tone; it doesn't help that trailers since the reveal have muddied that thinking so much.
 
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Rudiano

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
856
So the pre-orders are low? I hope this is the worst selling BF in years, about time people stop putting up with their bullshit
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,898
Who's saying this? Most people think it's way too similar to BF1.

I've played both alphas. It's nothing like BF1 mechanically. It's like BF1 stylistically because BF1 was not really a WW1 game.

- Gameplay fatigue. Since Battlefield 1 was pretty much just a WW2 game with a WW1 skin there's little to differentiate BFV in terms of gameplay 'feel', and that's what matters to the average consumer.

I can assure you the game feels quite different when you're actually playing it.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
Unsurprisingly, Joe's audience did not appreciate Joe's take on this. Nor do they fully understand the point he was making that had already been concluded by the likes of analyst and fans, in that the poor marketing and a poorly chosen release date that is in between COD and RDR2 is what is most likely affecting pre-orders.

Instead of realizing this, they jump on the defensive for their arguments for "muh historical accuracy". Let that be a hint at your audience, Joe. They may be a toxic bunch, if their harassment towards you for not doing more reviews didn't indicate that already.
 

Zatoichi

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,073
Ireland
It's got nothing that do with women in the game, CoD or RDR2.

It looks poor, and the players that liked BF for the type of gameplay it provided are now looking elsewhere, especially on PC.

I play Squad for my fix now days.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,271
I can assure you the game feels quite different when you're actually playing it.

I'm sure, but the marketing has done a terrible job at showing off what those differences actually are. The Black Ops 4 reveal event thoroughly and clearly explained the game's differences in both general feel and in more specific elements, and the recent open beta let people experience those changes for themselves. EA has done neither of those things with BFV.
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
Who's saying this? Most people think it's way too similar to BF1.

Anyone who played it.

Only ones saying it's too similar to BF1 are those that have only seen footage of it, because visually it looks very similar to BF1. BFV is the biggest change to the Battlefield gameplay since the series arrived to consoles.
 

TheClaw7667

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,704
There is a surprising amount of people saying EA made mistakes by having women in the game. Some saying DICE shouldn't have put the focus on women in their marketing materials.

For some people, DICE having the most basic customization and inclusion options is taking away from them. There are like 2 women characters shown in the trailers, yet that shows they are focusing on women at the exclusion of men. Someone posted the box art as an example of this because it doesn't feature men but a woman. And average consumers (the fps buying men) wouldn't think the game was for them because of the cover. It's like I'm living in crazy land.

There isn't another game like the battlefield series so I really hope it sells well.
 

Bold One

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
18,911
The last trailer was tonally and thematically all over the place -

Joe earned a bit of respect from me and you know he did something right when you look at the like/dislike bar - there are a lot of angry young entitled men on the internet.

EA fucked up, they should have given us all what we wanted which was BC3 instead of chasing the battle royale bullshit
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
There is a surprising amount of people saying EA made mistakes by having women in the game. Some saying DICE shouldn't have put the focus on women in their marketing materials.

For some people, DICE having the most basic customization and inclusion options is taking away from them. There are like 2 women characters shown in the trailers, yet that shows they are focusing on women at the exclusion of men. Someone posted the box art as an example of this because it doesn't feature men but a woman. And average consumers (the fps buying men) wouldn't think the game was for them because of the cover. It's like I'm living in crazy land.

There isn't another game like the battlefield series so I really hope it sells well.

The fact that the first thing audiences think about a possible reason for the lackluster pre-orders is the women controversy from the reveal shows it's bad marketing. Any good marketing would have introduced more information about the game to the public that the controversy would have died down and be forgotten.
 

Schlorgan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,932
Salt Lake City, Utah
The last trailer was tonally and thematically all over the place -

Joe earned a bit of respect from me and you know he did something right when you look at the like/dislike bar - there are a lot of angry young entitled men on the internet.

EA fucked up, they should have given us all what we wanted which was BC3 instead of chasing the battle royale bullshit
Yes, I'm sure the decision to set it in WW2 came only from them wanting to put a BR mode in.

Also, there is no consensus among Battlefield fans when it comes to what they want the next games in the series to be; some people want WW2, some people want future, some people want modern, some people want BC3. Whatever they make will always satisfy one group and upset the rest. There is no one Battlefield game that will satisfy everyone.
 
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Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,898
The fact that the first thing audiences think about a possible reason for the lackluster pre-orders is the women controversy from the reveal shows it's bad marketing. Any good marketing would have introduced more information about the game to the public that the controversy would have died down and be forgotten.

The reveal event is a good example of complete marketing failure. They showed one bad trailer after building up to it, talked vaguely about changes like fortifications and then it was over as quickly as it began. As it became clear players were confused and some furious, they had the devs do interviews with youtubers to try and course correct. A video featuring the changes after a good sizzle trailer would have saved them so much heartache and likely tens of milliosn of dollars.
 
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Filament Star

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,817
- E3 reveal that amounted to a short singleplayer cinematic (not even a trailer...), a short multiplayer trailer showing one map and then alpha footage from that same map

It's weird how much more we had seen of BF1 during this point in its marketing cycle. It had a huge blowout at E3.
 

HockeyGuy412

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
1,235
The last trailer was tonally and thematically all over the place -

Joe earned a bit of respect from me and you know he did something right when you look at the like/dislike bar - there are a lot of angry young entitled men on the internet.

EA fucked up, they should have given us all what we wanted which was BC3 instead of chasing the battle royale bullshit
Who says if they went with bad company 3 it wouldn't include a battle royal mode?
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Preorders are behind BO and RD2 shouldn't be newsworthy or even particularly surprising, theyre the more popular franchises.

With that said I'll likely buy this just in spite of the bullshit he pointed out despite not having purchased a BF game since 4.
 

Valiant

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,310
Hopefully the less hype and less sales will translate somehow to it being the least buggy Battlefield at launch?
 

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,028
That's a fairly good video by Joe. I do hope that even if the initial launch is weaker than expected its able to pick up after the holiday season, the new DLC model should help it pick up customers when new content drops and hopefully ensure the game has a long and healthy life. Its the Battlefield I've been most excited for in a very long time, the gameplay changes alone all look really quite interesting, and i'm certainly a fan of a game taking a more inclusive attitude towards player representation.
 

Ohhhht

Member
Oct 29, 2017
306
I still don't understand why they didn't just do the best of both worlds and allow you to select female characters when you were playing maps that actually had female soldiers fighting on the front.

It would be awesome to see female characters running around with PPSH's in Stalingrad or as pilots or as the million other ways they contributed in active combat roles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_World_War_II

People underestimate the huge role Women played during WW2 and I think the way DICE have handled this has ultimately just diminished how important their contributions were to the casual gamers and people that don't have much WW2 history bouncing around in their heads. No doubt It's generated some publicity (controversy), and maybe that was part of the advertising campaign.

Personally I think it's cool that we have the option however I can see why there was (is) and argument against.

Either way I'm pre-ordered up and cannot wait for the release!
 

lemonade

Member
May 8, 2018
3,044
This BFV situation really exposes all the bigot youtubers. Glad Joe is calling out the bullshit.

Too bad these isn't a extension to block these youtube channels like you can block twitch channels.
 

starbuck2907

Member
Jan 29, 2018
96
My problem with the marketing.

BF4 = "level-lution" ships crashing, etc.
BF1 = WWI, flamethrowers and trains.
BF5 = Battlefield 1, but now with women.

One of those isn't a compelling marketing message as compared to the other two.

That said, I have no problem with women in the game and have the game on pre-order. But does the marketing have me hyped? No.
 

Jerykk

Banned
Dec 26, 2017
1,184
It's not a matter of "It's <current year>". Female characters in FPS games did not make anyone blink in the late 90s, early 2000s. Delta Force? Female playable characters. Rainbow 6? Female playable characters. Medal of Honor? Female protagonist. There were five FPS games in 2000 with female leads. Something changed in the mid 2000s. A demographic and ideological shift. DICE could have put female fighters in Battlefield 1942 and there would have been very little outrage. Of course some would have raised objections and questioned the game's balance of fun and historical accuracy. But those discussions are inevitable. Nothing like the current internet fury.

I know it's easy to dismiss concerns about historical accuracy but I think they're pretty relevant. Nobody objects to female soldiers in modern military games because modern armies have female soldiers. That's why having female soldiers in R6, Delta Force, several near-future CoD games, BF4, etc, didn't bother most people. Same goes for straight up sci-fi shooters like Mass Effect, Titanfall, Overwatch and CoD: Infinite Warfare. The protagonist of Medal of Honor: Underground was a member of the French resistance, not an official army, so being female wasn't a glaring historical inaccuracy. If DICE had put female soldiers in BF1942, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing just as much controversy as we're seeing with BFV (relatively speaking; the series wasn't anywhere near as mainstream as it is now).

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of sexist assholes out there who will object to playable female characters regardless of context. But there are also people who do actually care about historical accuracy in games that use specific historical settings. It's also important to note that there is a separation between gameplay and context when it comes to historical accuracy. Most people don't want 100% realistic gameplay but they do want realistic settings, weapons, vehicles, factions, etc. That's why BF and CoD became so popular in the first place while games with more realistic gameplay (like ArmA, Delta Force, R6 and Ghost Recon) never reached that mainstream success.

Bottom line: there have been plenty of shooters with playable female characters since 2000. However, historical shooters are the only ones to spark such controversy. That's not a coincidence.
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
The beta matters 100x's more than the lackluster marketing to date does. Plenty of time to ramp up between now and release.

The original article has been twisted so badly at this point. The pre-orders were weak compared to (wait for it) Red Dead Redemption 2 and Black Ops 4. The former is possibly the best selling game of the year and the latter has required a pre-order to participate in a multiple weekend beta and it's Call of Fucking Duty. Every game is 'weak' compared to those two.
My problem with the marketing.

BF4 = "level-lution" ships crashing, etc.
BF1 = WWI, flamethrowers and trains.
BF5 = Battlefield 1, but now with women.

One of those isn't a compelling marketing message as compared to the other two.

That said, I have no problem with women in the game and have the game on pre-order. But does the marketing have me hyped? No.
It hasn't been just 'but now with women', people have just focused so much of their energy on that aspect. There has been a ton of stuff to glean from both trailers so far yet neckbeards can't get past the audacity of a video game having women or black people in it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,293
My problem with the marketing.

BF4 = "level-lution" ships crashing, etc.
BF1 = WWI, flamethrowers and trains.
BF5 = Battlefield 1, but now with women.

Right- There really isn't a quick and easy way to sell somebody on BFV outside of saying its WWII (except a really limited look at WWII with it only being focused on British versus Germans early in the war at launch). Hell, even the name of the game is shitty marketing if you ask me. What is Battlefield V even supposed to mean? With BF1 you could at least link it to WWI but V just seems really dumb and not intuitive.

Feel like a smarter thing to do would have been a modern or near future setting Bad Company 3 this year and then come back to WWII in a big way with a proper Battlefield 1944 in a couple years. That way you can satiate modern combat people and strike a different tone with BC3 and let people recharge their interest in a historical setting BF game so that it doesn't feel as close to BF1 as it currently is.

I'm just really apprehensive about BFV. This will be the first mainline BF game I'll hold off on from getting at launch since the atomsphere of authenticity I enjoy in historical BF games just seems so confused and muddled with BFV. I'm all for the WWII setting but I just want BF1942 with modern visuals. That's it, but that's also not what it seems like BFV is going to be at launch ( or is it? I don't know!) so I'll just be fine with Red Dead, since that's a game that looks like its nailing its own atmosphere of authenticity for the time period its going for.
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
.

It hasn't been just 'but now with women', people have just focused so much of their energy on that aspect. There has been a ton of stuff to glean from both trailers so far yet neckbeards can't get past the audacity of a video game having women or black people in it.

Its not even that, because BF1 had women too, in both the campaign and multiplayer. The big difference this time around is that they are in the box now.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Good video. Now to delete it from my history to not poison my suggestions.

I know it's easy to dismiss concerns about historical accuracy but I think they're pretty relevant. Nobody objects to female soldiers in modern military games because modern armies have female soldiers. That's why having female soldiers in R6, Delta Force, several near-future CoD games, BF4, etc, didn't bother most people. Same goes for straight up sci-fi shooters like Mass Effect, Titanfall, Overwatch and CoD: Infinite Warfare. The protagonist of Medal of Honor: Underground was a member of the French resistance, not an official army, so being female wasn't a glaring historical inaccuracy. If DICE had put female soldiers in BF1942, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing just as much controversy as we're seeing with BFV (relatively speaking; the series wasn't anywhere near as mainstream as it is now).

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of sexist assholes out there who will object to playable female characters regardless of context. But there are also people who do actually care about historical accuracy in games that use specific historical settings. It's also important to note that there is a separation between gameplay and context when it comes to historical accuracy. Most people don't want 100% realistic gameplay but they do want realistic settings, weapons, vehicles, factions, etc. That's why BF and CoD became so popular in the first place while games with more realistic gameplay (like ArmA, Delta Force, R6 and Ghost Recon) never reached that mainstream success.

Bottom line: there have been plenty of shooters with playable female characters since 2000. However, historical shooters are the only ones to spark such controversy. That's not a coincidence.

For the record I agree, but in regards to BFV specifically they've pretty much abandoned historical realism for this game from the very beginning of the games marketing.

Granted that sounds like i'm just dismissing everything you said but visuals aside they're not hiding the customisation and over the top stuff but putting it at the forefront. It's not trying to be like Call of Duty:WW2's trailers that were out to be as accurate as possible.

It's arguably dissapointing depending on personal preference that they've changed from at least a vaneer of visual authenticity that made the series what it is, but it certainly doesn't make the game close to worthless or disrespectful as the commenters on Joes video are claiming. The game looks solid.
 

D.Dragoon

Member
Mar 2, 2018
1,310
I enjoyed my time in the alpha. I think it most definitely has the potential to be the best Frostbite-based Battlefield game to date (and certainly a lot better than the crap that was BC2).
Bc2 being crap is news to me when many loved that game and want a continuation of it, me included.
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
Do people honestly believe that Battlefield will flop?

Hardline is considered one.

Bc2 being crap is news to me when many loved that game and want a continuation of it, me included.

BC2 is controversial because it split the BF fanbase in two, one being fans of the classic BF formula and the other being ones that started playing BF with BC2 and prefer its very different type of gameplay. BF3, 4, and 1 tried to merge the two styles but it never gelled.
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
Its not even that, because BF1 had women too, in both the campaign and multiplayer. The big difference this time around is that they are in the box now.
A big difference is also that Battlefield 1 came out before November 8, 2016. I remember hearing similar bitching about 'muh authenticity' for Battlefield 1 but those voices have grown louder and more forceful this time around. I wonder why...
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
A big difference is also that Battlefield 1 came out before November 8, 2016. I remember hearing similar bitching about 'muh authenticity' for Battlefield 1 but those voices have grown louder and more forceful this time around. I wonder why...

BF1's PC community was a miserable disaster during and after the US election. It got so bad DICE had to remove all user icons from being visible in the game.
 

SimplyComplex

Member
May 23, 2018
4,002
Anyone who played it.

Only ones saying it's too similar to BF1 are those that have only seen footage of it, because visually it looks very similar to BF1. BFV is the biggest change to the Battlefield gameplay since the series arrived to consoles.

So everyone who played it thinks it's the best Battlefield game since BC2? That's what I'm questioning.

I've heard that the gameplay has changed but even then I haven't seen it getting near the amount of love of BF2 or BF3 for that matter.