Anita Sarkeesian Tweets about barely any female characters in first two eps of Mandalorian. Goes about as well as you'd expect.

Fudgepuppy · Nov 21, 2019

"Am I extremely tired or is there not a single female speaking character in the first episode of #Mandelorian?? I've gotta have missed something right???"

https://twitter.com/anitasarkeesian/status/1197388822910132224

She later acknowledged the armorer being a woman (and the typo), but it all went as you'd expect.

https://twitter.com/anitasarkeesian/status/1197578501064314881

"Wow. Nearly 3000 replies because one woman voices her opinion that we shouldn’t be at a point anymore where we just accept media that normalizes patriarchy. Cool cool cool. Everyone’s having a normal one I see."

Both threads go into some depth about how strongly media perpetuate patriarchy as the norm, and how incredibly fast people will jump anyone even mentioning this (especially when a fan favorite product is the topic at hand). It also, naturally, spreads some light on how misogynistic the world of fandom is.

I definitely went "oh yeah, that's kind of sucky", but there was also one part of me that made me feel that the lack of female characters, sort of played into the reality that the world of Mandalorian, is a toxic one that only seems to appeal to men who are idiots. Much like how "the wild west" is idolized by men who think Clint Eastwood is the coolest dude ever, and that having a quick-draw at dawn is the manliest thing ever.

BDS · Nov 21, 2019

She's not wrong* and I mentioned this in the OT last week, I don't see any ill will on the part of Favreau or Filoni but this is an unfortunate consequence of the decision to do the show anthology-style with only a single central character and no real recurring cast around him.

*She is technically wrong in that there is a single female character, the armorer, that speaks briefly in the first episode, but that's not really debunking the larger point being made

BossAttack · Nov 21, 2019

I mean, she was wrong. Did she expect people to not correct her? This is not excusing harassment, but pointing out that she is incorrect is a separate thing.

Tortahegesztő · Nov 21, 2019

~~Wasn't the armor smith female?~~
EDIT: Should have read the original post more carefully I guess.

Einchy · Nov 21, 2019

How is this show normalizing patriarchy?

Sephzilla · Nov 21, 2019

It's something I did notice but at the same time there aren't that many characters in the show at this point in general. This is a complaint that should be saved until the season is over, because things could change yet.

PlanetSmasher · Nov 21, 2019

Einchy said:

None of those characters appear in the first two episodes, though. This is part of the problem with the way the show is structured and the stories they chose to tell early on - the only woman he interacts with is another masked Mandalorian with basically no identity behind "has hammer".

chazwick · Nov 21, 2019

She was wrong, you can't call out when someone is wrong now?

RDreamer · Nov 21, 2019

Wow there’s (really not surprisingly) a lot of transphobic jokes in those comments.

But yeah totally they’re all just concerned with her being absolutely correct! Totally.

Veelk · Nov 21, 2019

BossAttack said:
I mean, she was wrong. Did she expect people to not correct her? This is not excusing harassment, but pointing out that she is incorrect is a separate thing.

It's not that it's wrong to point out that she's incorrect, it's that people will use that as an excuse to harass, mock, and belittle her, only to turn around and say "Hey, I'm just correcting her guys, chill."

They intertwine what would be an ordinary correction with harassment to the point where they aren't separable.

BossAttack · Nov 21, 2019

BDS said:
*She is technically wrong in that there is a single female character, the armorer, that speaks briefly in the first episode, but that's not really debunking the larger point being made

It does though. The larger point is about female representation in media. She tried to use The Mandaloraion as an example, but missed that the first episode does indeed feature a female character. She later tries to caveat this fact with the point that she's in a singular scene. But, pretty much all characters in that first episode exist in a single scene. There's only been one (well two counting baby) supporting characters that have appeared beyond a single scene and in more than one episode.

The larger point is still a valid point, ie female representation in media. But, The Mandalorian doesn't support it.

Yasuke · Nov 21, 2019

I get it. Really do. But she was technically wrong in that there was one. And there really just aren’t that many characters in the show to begin with right now. Hopefully that changes (we know for a fact there are at least two coming up), and if it doesn’t, we should absolutely take the show to task for it.

Ferrio · Nov 21, 2019

PlanetSmasher said:
None of those characters appear in the first two episodes, though. This is part of the problem with the way the show is structured and the stories they chose to tell early on - the only woman he interacts with is another masked Mandalorian with basically no identity behind "has hammer".

Well we know she's a smith, and it looks like they're highly revered going by what little info we're given.

carlsojo · Nov 21, 2019

There are barely any characters (male or female) in the Mandalorian so far. I don't think there's even been an hour of screentime total yet.

Einchy · Nov 21, 2019

BossAttack said:
It does though. The larger point is about female representation in media. She tried to use The Mandalorain as an example, but missed that the first episode does indeed feature a female character. She later tries to caveat this fact with the point that she's in a singular scene. But, pretty much all characters in that first episode exist in a single scene. There's only been one (well two counting baby) supporting characters that have appeared beyond a single scene and in more than one episode.

Yeah, there has only been 60 minutes and change of The Mandalorian and we only really have 3 actual characters so far. Everyone else has been a one off.

Veelk · Nov 21, 2019

BossAttack said:
It does though. The larger point is about female representation in media. She tried to use The Mandaloraion as an example, but missed that the first episode does indeed feature a female character. She later tries to caveat this fact with the point that she's in a singular scene. But, pretty much all characters in that first episode exist in a single scene. There's only been one (well two counting baby) supporting characters that have appeared beyond a single scene and in more than one episode.

The larger point is still a valid point, ie female representation in media. But, The Mandalorian doesn't support it.

No, because we've had several characters. I don't know the number off hand, but the Mandalorian, the group of thugs at the scum bar, the bounty he brought in, the guy that gave him the next job, the guard for the guy giving the next job, the armoror, the ranch alien, the IG robot, the yoda baby and all the guys guarding the yoda baby.

If we don't count the random mooks like the scum bar guys and the baby gaurd guys, then we still have, what 8 characters total and only one of those women? Still not great.

TheDestructiveSquirrel · Nov 21, 2019

Einchy said:
Yeah, there has only been 60 minutes and change of The Mandalorian and we only really have 3 actual characters so far. Everyone else has been a one off.

Yea

How many characters have actually said something and not just been canon fodder?

Isn't it better to wait and see the rest of the season, especially with short episodes?

Veelk · Nov 21, 2019

Einchy said:
Yeah, there has only been 60 minutes and change of The Mandalorian and we only really have 3 actual characters so far. Everyone else has been a one off.

You can have one off women though. One of the more under-represented things in talks about diversity is that women aren't present as background, minor characters in action flicks. Like, if we have a random gang of thugs in the opening bar scene, they're ALL men. I'd like to get to a point where it's expected to have women even in a crowd of meaningless canon fodder that the hero beats up.

TheDestructiveSquirrel said:
How many characters have actually said something and not just been canon fodder?

That's what I'm saying, have some female canon fodder then. It still counts.

NSA · Nov 21, 2019

I mean.. I guess some of the Imperials could have been female.. the Taxi driver.. there really haven't been a ton of characters. They've already shown that most of the rest of the 'known' characters coming are female.

I suppose we don't know if the Jawas were female, maybe they all were!

Mona · Nov 21, 2019

BossAttack said:
It does though. The larger point is about female representation in media. She tried to use The Mandaloraion as an example, but missed that the first episode does indeed feature a female character. She later tries to caveat this fact with the point that she's in a singular scene. But, pretty much all characters in that first episode exist in a single scene. There's only been one (well two counting baby) supporting characters that have appeared beyond a single scene and in more than one episode.

The larger point is still a valid point, ie female representation in media. But, The Mandalorian doesn't support it.

We probably shouldn't butt in with our opinions, and instead let the people who are part of the effected group decide whether or not something is an issue

RDreamer · Nov 21, 2019

carlsojo said:
There are barely any characters (male or female) in the Mandalorian so far. I don't think there's even been an hour of screentime total yet.

There are like 6+ male speaking parts and one female in the first episode.

Deleted member 21709 · Nov 21, 2019

I noticed this too.

Septy · Nov 21, 2019

Veelk said:
No, because we've had several characters. I don't know the number off hand, but the Mandalorian, the group of thugs at the scum bar, the bounty he brought in, the guy that gave him the next job, the guard for the guy giving the next job, the armoror, the ranch alien, the IG robot, the yoda baby and all the guys guarding the yoda baby.

If we don't count the random mooks like the scum bar guys and the baby gaurd guys, then we still have, what 8 characters total and only one of those women? Still not great.

If the thugs were female it probably would have upset people too.

Lord Fagan · Nov 21, 2019

Sometimes, you just need to go, "oops, my bad," and let that be that.

Otherwise, you just seem like you wanna pick a fight.

Kevers · Nov 21, 2019

I mean there's only been like 5 people seen so far in the 2 episodes I watched. The odds were a little stacked.

Offtopic: I thought Jawas were native to Tattooine.

Palette Swap · Nov 21, 2019

BossAttack said:
I mean, she was wrong. Did she expect people to not correct her? This is not excusing harassment, but pointing out that she is incorrect is a separate thing.

Looking at that ratio, it seems like a lot of people tripped over themselves to “actually...” her while completely missing the forest for the trees.

You don’t need 3k people to tell her “yeah but there’s this one character”. To put it differently, I’m not gonna pretend this would have gone down the same way if it was a random semi-famous dude making one single factual mistake with little bearing on the overall point.

thesoapster · Nov 21, 2019

Einchy said:
How is this show normalizing patriarchy?

It's just not being released fast enough!

Deleted member 42055 · Nov 21, 2019

Seen plenty of People going really hard at this show after only two episodes ... like, relax.. let it unfold

Veelk · Nov 21, 2019

Septy said:
If the thugs were female it probably would have upset people too.

Nope. People aren't used to it to the point where they don't think about it, but when we have female villains, there isn't a big deal made about them being beat up. But because of the sexism in action movies, for women to have action roles, they need to be special, otherwise they are male. It's actually one of the instances where it actually disadvantages men because it frames men as the expendable gender.

I'd rather have people move away from that mentality and give equal representation to mook crowds as well. And it's really not that hard to do so. You just see it a few times and accept "oh, well, women have thug roles in this society too."

dancingphlower · Nov 21, 2019

It's not great but hopefully Gina Carano and Ming-Na Wen's characters have larger roles later?

NealMcCauley · Nov 21, 2019

I only watched the pilot last night but IMO it had a Michael Mann-like "Tough guys being cold professionals" vibe. I can see it changing as the show goes on.

anariel · Nov 21, 2019

I don't necessarily agree with her point in regards to The Mandalorian specifically, but Anita always gets way more shit than she deserves. There's way too many people just waiting for her to make any mistake and jump her shit. It's tiresome.

RastaMentality · Nov 21, 2019

Why are there no black women in any of these films & shows? lmao

Mona · Nov 21, 2019

thesoapster said:
It's just not being released fast enough!

See a binge release would've solved this problem

Pai Pai Master · Nov 21, 2019

Kevers said:
Offtopic: I thought Jawas were native to Tattooine.

I believe some promotional materials for the show specifically refer to them as "Offworld Jawas."

Einchy · Nov 21, 2019

Veelk said:
if we have a random gang of thugs in the opening bar scene, they're ALL men. I'd like to get to a point where it's expected to have women even in a crowd of meaningless canon fodder that the hero beats up.

I get where she's coming from but it makes no sense to try and say that about The Mandalorian.

Deleted member 42055 · Nov 21, 2019

Einchy said:
I get where she's coming from but it makes no sense to try and say that about The Mandalorian.

*Incoming moving goalposts*

Deleted member 1120 · Nov 21, 2019

anariel said:
I don't necessarily agree with her point in regards to The Mandalorian specifically, but Anita always gets way more shit than she deserves. There's way too many people just waiting for her to make any mistake and jump her shit. It's tiresome.

Yup.
Then you get people like "WHAT? NOW WE CAN'T TELL HER SHE'S WRONG?!"

Veelk · Nov 21, 2019

Einchy said:
I get where she's coming from but it makes no sense to try and say that about The Mandalorian.

Those weren't part of the gang that the Mandalorian fought with though, right? They were just background characters in the most literal sense? I'm mainly looking at characters that actually did something in their scenes.

Septy · Nov 21, 2019

Veelk said:
Nope. People aren't used to it to the point where they don't think about it, but when we have female villains, there isn't a big deal made about them being beat up. But because of the sexism in action movies, for women to have action roles, they need to be special, otherwise they are male. It's actually one of the instances where it actually disadvantages men because it frames men as the expendable gender.

I'd rather have people move away from that mentality and give equal representation to mook crowds as well. And it's really not that hard to do so. You just see it a few times and accept "oh, well, women have thug roles in this society too."

Yeah but I just think there would at least be some people here that if a woman got cut in half by a door they’d get upset.

PeskyToaster · Nov 21, 2019

luckily the armorer was one of the coolest parts.

TheGhost · Nov 21, 2019

The woman in the cast is the most bad ass person on the show so far (the armorer)

Like most characters we have seen from the posters so far I’m afraid they will all be one and done characters so even if we do get a female character it will only be for one episode.

Isn’t exactly Game of Thrones with a robust cast.

So far from what we seen there is one character we have yet to see from the splash page. Could be a one and done scenario though. Just another obstacle in the way.

I do hope we get to return to the armorer though.

Mona · Nov 21, 2019

Einchy said:
I get where she's coming from but it makes no sense to try and say that about The Mandalorian.

Why is this shit so dark

Veelk · Nov 21, 2019

Agar25 said:
*Incoming moving goalposts*

Not even moving goalposts. The original post I made wasn't thinking about literally everyone that was at the bar, it was about the gang that the Mandalorian fought.

If we're including characters that literally walk past the screen in the background, then...sure, but then we also have to exponentially count how many men there were onscreen as well, so the proportions shrink even more.

BringBackSonics · Nov 21, 2019

There has

dancingphlower said:
It's not great but hopefully Gina Carano and Ming-Na Wen's characters have larger roles later?

Outside of the main character, no one really has any kind of role so far.

DarthWalden · Nov 21, 2019

Do we know what gender baby Yoda is?

Gustaf · Nov 21, 2019

how is stating there is no speaking women on the first episode an "opinion"?

Yasuke · Nov 21, 2019

RastaMentality said:
Why are there no black women in any of these films & shows? lmao

Took till episode IX for us to get one that wasn’t an alien.

Deleted member 42055 · Nov 21, 2019

Einchy said:
I get where she's coming from but it makes no sense to try and say that about The Mandalorian.

Told you ^

Really though she and anyone calling for more representation of Women is

but it’s been two episodes... I also agree with the poster who commented about this underworld being largely full men= comment on toxic masculinity

fallengorn · Nov 21, 2019

I get the overall point she wants to make but, judging it from the first two episodes is iffy, especially when the second episode there's... two people who only speak.

Anita Sarkeesian Tweets about barely any female characters in first two eps of Mandalorian. Goes about as well as you'd expect.

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