Announcement: Forum restructuring scheduled for this Sunday night

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 28, 2017
1,283
Thank you, I love it! The only EtcetEra Hangout I cared about was poliera, which felt so redundant to but segregated from the latest threads about any newest particular issues.

Frankly, I'd love it if the gaming forum for everything gaming related developments like industry news, rumors, previews, and reviews. Gaming Hangouts should involve everything else like RTTPs, LTTPs, user opinions, game organization threads, etc.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,959
I've been a member of other forums that for one reason or other, thought it wise to micromanage and segregate discussions into their own boards. Let's have a separate board for sports! A separate board for movies! A separate board for television! A separate board for music! A separate board for comics! Etc.

It became a pain in the ass to navigate, jumping from board to board to board and finding the same threads on the front page for days on end, with maybe one or two new posts in them per hour if that. Eventually people just stopped bothering. I would hate to see that happen here. You do you, but it sounds like your jeopardizing the health of the overall forum to artificially prop up sub-communities that couldn't generate enough traffic on their own merits.
 

Koo

Member
Dec 10, 2017
906
You can laugh all you want doesn't change what I'm saying.

Putting restrictions on communities all the while trying to improve them is dumb as fuck. It's why people flock to discord in the first place. While this new idea might not be the best it's a hell of a lot better than yours.
This idea is already breeding resentment so it's not as if this is a positive change. Putting the needs a few forum members over everyone else who uses the site. If they have a problem with growth or whatever then they should stop using their discords and post more on the forum. But I guess the idea that not everyone wants to browse/look at all the community OTs has gone over everyone's heads.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,839
California
I'm not sure how I feel about this change. Will have to see how it plays out in-practice, but EtcetEra always felt like an appropriate catch-all for politics, culture, and the occasional thread about someone with horrifying hygiene habits. I don't think Trump falls into 'entertainment'. It feels like it grossly undersells his impact and how it should be perceived. But similarly, I feel like putting it in EtcetEra now makes it "easily avoidable" when it frankly shouldn't be.
I agree. I worry that this will further divide the people who post here "just for fun and games lol" and the people who care about important aspects of our society. Just seems like an easy-way-out for people that have bad political views and want to just "talk about games and movies".

I understand why Videogames are separate from everything else, because this is a gaming forum first and foremost, but the progressive politics the majority of the posters on this site share are an important part of Era and I don't think politics should be shoved to the side and be completely avoidable by most users if they want to. It's something people should have to face to at least some degree even if they decide not to post in those threads.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,313
Interesting sentiment, “if communities are thriving, then Era is thriving”. I felt even on GAF it was never about just the individual communities, but rather the community as a whole. I understand it’s easier to get feedback from a smaller group than asking the whole forum and dealing with so many different opinions, but hand selecting a select group of “prominent” posters, doesn’t necessarily reflect the whole community, but just a subsect of it. I am amongst the group of people that like the division or communities from new threads. If I am interested in a community, I watch that thread or check in from time to time. I don’t want to have to scroll through a ton of constant communities to be able to see new threads.

I do agree that the vast amount of American political threads has overtaken the Ectera forum and this left vs right thought process is also very prominent, both are annoying to constantly see.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2
I think this change is for the better. We shouldn’t be forced to read dozens of depressing or political topics just to find discussions on entertainment.

Bring on 2.0!
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,114
Syracuse, NY
I'll honestly have to wait and see it in action. I liked having 1 place dedicated to all those topics and spreading them across 2 sections isn't exactly ideal in my mind, I'll still give it a chance to see how it actually works out.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,465
I’m pretty new here so whatever you guys do is fine with me. But could someone explain what specifically hangouts are for?
GAF started with 2 forums, a gaming side and off topic for everything else. For big topics or game releases people would make “Official Threads” (OTs) as catch all threads for everything relating to that 1 topic/game. As the site grew eventually the popular OT’s ended up cluttering the 1st page of both boards, pushing new threads down by the constant bumps of the regular posters in the OT’s and burying new news in long megathreads that were hard to follow. So they decided to make 2 new “community” forums to keep the OT clutter out of the main forums. “Hangouts” are this forum’s version of the Community forum/design of the old board. Apparently the site owners here think they can overcome the issues that OTs in the main forum brought to the old place by splitting “Entertainment” off to its own board....
 
Oct 31, 2017
376
New York, NY
GAF started with 2 forums, a gaming side and off topic for everything else. For big topics or game releases people would make “Official Threads” (OTs) as catch all threads for everything relating to that 1 topic/game. As the site grew eventually the popular OT’s ended up cluttering the 1st page of both boards, pushing new threads down by the constant bumps of the regular posters in the OT’s and burying new news in long megathreads that were hard to follow. So they decided to make 2 new “community” forums to keep the OT clutter out of the main forums. “Hangouts” are this forum’s version of the Community forum/design of the old board. Apparently the site owners here think they can overcome the issues that OTs in the main forum brought to the old place by splitting “Entertainment” off to its own board....
Ah, okay thanks for the explainer, I did a search on here and Google and couldn’t get an official answer so that helped tremendously.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,136
I think this change is for the better. We shouldn’t be forced to read dozens of depressing or political topics just to find discussions on entertainment.

Bring on 2.0!
Likewise I hope this won't force me reading through dozens of depressing TV, movie, sports topics to get to the political world news that actually interest me. If this change can accomplish that fine, I just don't see it tbh... guess we'll know soon enough.

Still worried about the legacy themes, since no word on that, a small preview would have been nice...
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,793
London, UK
I agree. I worry that this will further divide the people who post here "just for fun and games lol" and the people who care about important aspects of our society. Just seems like an easy-way-out for people that have bad political views and want to just "talk about games and movies".
Why is that a bad thing? There was recently a thread asking whether conservatives / republicans have a role in the forum. If you check that thread, the majority opinion seems to be that no, they don’t. I think some might have called for it to be bannable to be right leaning. The logic was that GOP (a US right wing party) has recently put forwards some really bad motions on LGBT rights, so if you support conservatives, you are complicit to the suppression of the LGBT community in the USA by association.

Moderators or site owners didn’t comment on the thread but kept it open, so I would assume they would agree with the premise to a degree.

So that leaves a lot of posters, who are conservative / right leaning, yet disagree with the US GOP policies on minority treatment, unwelcome in a huge part of Etcetera front page, the News & Politics stories.

So from that point of view, splitting the politics to its own area will allow like minded posters to gather there, while people who come to Era to enjoy the endless variety of gaming, music, TV, films, sports etc. discussions will have two great forums they can participate in. It’s a much healthier approach and should make the site feel less toxic.

My only hope is that also the benign “personal advice” threads on things like dating, health and family matters would be part of the entertainment forum, so that Etcetera would only be News & Politics.
 

Cap G

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,488
Why is that a bad thing? There was recently a thread asking whether conservatives / republicans have a role in the forum. If you check that thread, the majority opinion seems to be that no, they don’t. I think some might have called for it to be bannable to be right leaning. The logic was that GOP (a US right wing party) has recently put forwards some really bad motions on LGBT rights, so if you support conservatives, you are complicit to the suppression of the LGBT community in the USA by association.

Moderators or site owners didn’t comment on the thread but kept it open, so I would assume they would agree with the premise to a degree.

So that leaves a lot of posters, who are conservative / right leaning, yet disagree with the US GOP policies on minority treatment, unwelcome in a huge part of Etcetera front page, the News & Politics stories.

So from that point of view, splitting the politics to its own area will allow like minded posters to gather there, while people who come to Era to enjoy the endless variety of gaming, music, TV, films, sports etc. discussions will have two great forums they can participate in. It’s a much healthier approach and should make the site feel less toxic.

My only hope is that also the benign “personal advice” threads on things like dating, health and family matters would be part of the entertainment forum, so that Etcetera would only be News & Politics.
This is approaching the issue from the perspective of making the forum approachable by the most amount of people possible. That is not what Era has ever been about, it's been about creating a discussion space for diverse voices.

To have posters that ignore politics/embrace right wing rhetoric posting in gaming discussions with minority posters as if one party doesn't view the other as lesser is straight up dangerous and fear inducing. People want to be able to post comfortably without worrying that the individual on the other end wants to threaten their rights away.

That doesn't mean segment the forum to try to make it so politics never arises, it means those two groups of people shouldn't be using the same website at all.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,839
California
Why is that a bad thing? There was recently a thread asking whether conservatives / republicans have a role in the forum. If you check that thread, the majority opinion seems to be that no, they don’t. I think some might have called for it to be bannable to be right leaning. The logic was that GOP (a US right wing party) has recently put forwards some really bad motions on LGBT rights, so if you support conservatives, you are complicit to the suppression of the LGBT community in the USA by association.

Moderators or site owners didn’t comment on the thread but kept it open, so I would assume they would agree with the premise to a degree.

So that leaves a lot of posters, who are conservative / right leaning, yet disagree with the US GOP policies on minority treatment, unwelcome in a huge part of Etcetera front page, the News & Politics stories.

So from that point of view, splitting the politics to its own area will allow like minded posters to gather there, while people who come to Era to enjoy the endless variety of gaming, music, TV, films, sports etc. discussions will have two great forums they can participate in. It’s a much healthier approach and should make the site feel less toxic.

My only hope is that also the benign “personal advice” threads on things like dating, health and family matters would be part of the entertainment forum, so that Etcetera would only be News & Politics.
We can agree to disagree but I think that if someone is right leaning then they need to take a long and hard look at themselves. I've never met someone who would identify as a conservative, or right leaning and didn't have at least some really shitty views. Not saying progressive or liberal people don't have their problems as well but I see a clear difference.

Frankly, I don't think those kinds of people need to be on the site. A lot of minorities (women, PoC, LGBT, etc) have left the site over the months and the reasoning they give is always the same. That the site is too forgiving towards people with awful views. Letting people stay away from the political threads without having to face them to at least some extent isn't going to help this site at all.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,793
London, UK
This is approaching the issue from the perspective of making the forum approachable by the most amount of people possible. That is not what Era has ever been about, it's been about creating a discussion space for diverse voices.

To have posters that ignore politics/embrace right wing rhetoric posting in gaming discussions with minority posters as if one party doesn't view the other as lesser is straight up dangerous and fear inducing. People want to be able to post comfortably without worrying that the individual on the other end wants to threaten their rights away.

That doesn't mean segment the forum to try to make it so politics never arises, it means those two groups of people shouldn't be using the same website at all.
I don’t think this has been properly litigated yet. Era pretty much captured the Gaf community wholesale as Gaf collapsed. The migration of the Gaf community was what made this site popular, all the high profile posters and communities moving on to a new home made available. I remember there was a manifesto of making the site welcoming to minorities, which I’d like to think virtually everyone moving from Gaf would have been happy with.

I’d wager that most Gaf posters joining during the great migration did not knowingly join under the premise of joining a leftist forum where you are not allowed to ignore politics or to be right leaning (as long as you support diversity / minorities).

That’s why we are seeing now all the toxicity around politics now. Era has come to a crossroads where it needs to decide whether it is a niche ideological forum (ban conservatives) or a high traffic forum with a modest ideological slant (move politics to its own space).
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
431
Glasgow
Separating Entertainment out to its own section...sure, whatever.

Clogging up the off topic threads list with community threads where people only care about one or a few of those threads...dunno about that.
 
Oct 28, 2017
11,918
Could see the issue with OTs 'clogging' the site. I don't really post in any OT so I imagine I'll just add "|OT|" to my ublock filter and be fine with it and just search an OT manually if I need to post there. RIP on mobile though.
 
Oct 26, 2017
829
I've seen some concerns aboutthe legacy themes. I completely forgot that the legacy themes were "legacy" themes and had been replaced. I switched over to the NightERA theme for the first time since sampling it back when it debuted and immediately yelled out "Oh god, how do I get back to DarkERA (Legacy) fast?!" Man, I certainly won't be feeling any kind of positive way if this impending site "improvement" borks the beautiful DarkERA theme.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,103
Long Island
I’d wager that most Gaf posters joining during the great migration did not knowingly join under the premise of joining a leftist forum where you are not allowed to ignore politics or to be right leaning (as long as you support diversity / minorities).

That’s why we are seeing now all the toxicity around politics now. Era has come to a crossroads where it needs to decide whether it is a niche ideological forum (ban conservatives) or a high traffic forum with a modest ideological slant (move politics to its own space).
Yeah, I came from the Gaming section, but enjoyed off topic for its discussion of TV shows, movies and Groundhogs Day threads. I was surprised not to see an Admin officially post in the “What place do conservatives have on this forum” thread. That has to seem real confrontational to people who don’t lean left of center enough. Hell I dont think the center is welcomed either.

We left as a group because down the block was run by a asshole womanizing sexual assault person. We came here to this fresh start, part of a fresh start to me is a fresh view on things, including forum lay out. I trust the admins know what they are doing.
 
Oct 28, 2017
11,918
What's the isolation from politics thing people are talking about? That some people will only browse the "entertainment" forum and not the general etcetera one? Guess that could happen though do those people just ignore politics threads now?

Or maybe the more popular OT threads will always be visible pushing politics threads away? Not sure. Anyone no harm in trying but I think it will end up getting reverted. I anticipate both a lot of space taken up by OT threads and a lot of confusion about which forum to post certain threads in.
 
Oct 27, 2017
336
Literally not interested in having a separate Entertainment section.

I like having a videogames section and an everything else section, having a third option and shoving all entertainment posts in there isn't going to solve anything, you are just renaming Hangouts to Entertainment.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,316
Phoenix
Not feeling the idea of having to scroll through an extra forum where I have to scroll past the same threads over and over again.

I thought pinning a random community thread in the main forums was supposed to be the solution?
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,363
Good news, this is a change I thought time ago (in gaf times...), a good % of the OT is media threads (films, tv series, books, comics, etc) so it makes sense for them to have a separate sub forum and leave the OT for the rest (politics, blog posts, misc news, etc)
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,427
Have the mod and admin team outlined the length of observation and assessment? It seems clear that the new themes of the forum is not popular or well liked, and I have not personally seen an announcement about adjusting it to include the old theme color scheme. And if that has happened then I think users should feel comfortable with these changes, since their complaints would most likely lead to the decision being reversed.

Saying, “Wait until the changes go live and then criticize” would be a more digestible statement, if there was evidence of past acknowledgement of decsisions that needed to be walked back.

I still have my reservation about the upcoming changes, but I hope users and the mod/admin team can work together to find the right balance for the Era community.
 
Last edited:

Nemo

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
422
That's a no from me dawg. The point of the hangouts OTs was so that people who were specifically interested in those topics could have their niche place to discuss them in. If someone wanted to participate, they would put the effort to actively find that topic and would eventually locate it. Putting these topics on full blast in front of everyone is not going to make more people view them, it's just going to be an annoying buzzing bee in front of the majority of people's eyes.

So many times businesses make the mistake of changing things that don't need change for the sake of the illusion of growth or progression. If it ain't broke, don't fix it; a common saying that's rarely followed.
 

Leek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
720
I’d wager that most Gaf posters joining during the great migration did not knowingly join under the premise of joining a leftist forum where you are not allowed to ignore politics or to be right leaning (as long as you support diversity / minorities).
Surely everyone posting on GAF would've known that, because that's exactly what GAF itself had become. It wasn't said explicitly because of all the stealth bans and not being allowed to question moderation, but I felt it was pretty common knowledge.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,775
I think the biggest issue isnt community activity but that the site isnt getting many new members. Its been 9 months into 2018 and how many members have joined, 5,000? That doesnt seem like healthy growth. The initial move was unprecedented and insane but it just fell off a bottomless cliff after that. Maybe resetera isnt getting in gaming news as much as neogaf used to? I wonder if the site would grow more if we had more insiders leaking things like CBOAT.
 
Oct 29, 2017
454
The reason we made the shift to communities at the old place was because nothing but the large community threads were populating the front page. I'm sure the environment here is different and maybe it makes sense, but the community pages were created because there was basically no discussion happening on the main OT page other than large community threads popping to the top continually.

My guess is the growth issues are because resetera was a fragmentation of another community, and most of the industry interest the old place had went away. I think the old-place was really integrated with the video game industry not because the industry wanted to engage, but because it was too big and had too much power to ignore.

Since everything went down, they found a great moment to exit stage-right. The lack of leaks and informers here means new users aren't being sent here. the old place -> internet -> old place cycle broke, and that was driving lots of name awareness in the larger video game community that reset isn't getting.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,719
Can't wait to see how that Ariana Grande sexual assault thread will look in the "don't talk about politics, I just want entertainment" subforum. I'm sure it will go swimmingly.
 
I still think this is an awful idea which doesn't address the problem at hand and creates a whole new range of problems, as many people have either carefully pointed out or unwillingly demonstrated in this thread (the purpose wasn't to separate politics discussions from the rest of the forum, yet many people are interpreting it that way). The way this was decided and announced is baffling and highly problematic. Still, I will obviously give it a chance. If only that chance had also been given to us...
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,510
I think this change is for the better. We shouldn’t be forced to read dozens of depressing or political topics just to find discussions on entertainment.

Bring on 2.0!
Brand new and already sick of the politics, eh? I’m fairly sure politics will still encompass that side as well in relation to entertainment anyhow.
 
Right now, people are complaining without even seeing the end result. After we implement this restructure, we'll keep an eye on the metrics. If it seems clear that both members and communities do not like the change, we'll take a look at rolling things back then. Like you've alluded to, there are elements of 2.0 that will most certainly address some of the fundamental criticisms of this change. Unfortunately, we've learned what happens when we talk about things too early, so we're still not rolling back the curtain on what that means exactly. Either way, after the dust settles on this restructure and the dust settles on the release of 2.0, that would be the time that we would first look at whether the restructure will be a long term success in the way we hope it will be.

Re: The invariable "why not wait for after 2.0", we determined at this was a change that the communities wanted, that was good for the long term success of the communities, and the sooner it was done, the better.
Re: The invariable "why not wait for 2.0", trying to do a site redesign is enough of a headache on it own that we didn't want to introduce a restructure and a redesign that the same time.

The benefit of the smaller threads is best captured by what greenbird said:

Additionally, we will be continuing the Community Spotlight system for both EtcetEra and now Entertainment.
That's a good thing.

Still, and this is my real takeaway from this of a sociopolitical bent: we can't have this mixing of executive decisions like this with democratic feedback, especially in this way. Most of us only realized anything was there like feedback long after such avenues closed, and one of those was to a market that would find such a change directly in their wheelwell. It invites the suspicion, envy, and confusion as you can well see here that nearly never appears in previous change decisions that were demonsterably 100% leadership with feedback.

The big changes in the future must be either top-down or bottom-up decisions. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Or perhaps we're not all American
We're all in this boat on the same rough sea. Seeing each others' political threads helps reveal this.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.