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-JD-

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,470
I've spent the past weekend playing Zelda Breath of the Wild and while I enjoy the game so far, the shortness of its days (daytime+night) stood out to me enough to be a niggling annoyance. They seemed too short and it kinda affected my pacing throughout the game. I timed the day-length and it came out to be 24 minutes real time = one full game day, split evenly for daytime and night (a rarity for open world games). Turns out that Zelda's day-length was shorter on average when compared to this collection of generally modern open-world games with proper day/night cycles. I've limited each entry to one title per franchise, but of course in-game day-length could differ from one game in a particular series to the next. (note: when I say "day-length" I am referring to a full day. I will use "daytime" and "nighttime" when I need to be specific about those time-spans).

[x] mins = one full in-game day

Don't Starve - 8 mins
Minecraft - 20 mins
Zelda BotW - 24 mins
Sea of Thieves - 24 mins
Xenoblade Chronicles - 24 mins
Mafia 3 - 48 mins
RDR2 - 48 mins
GTAV - 48 mins
Watch_Dawgs - 48 mins
Sleeping Dawgs - 48 mins
Dragon's Dogma - 48 mins
Monster Hunter World - 50 mins
Just Cause 2 - 60 mins
Rust - 60 mins
Dying Light - 64 mins
Skyrim - 72 mins
Fallout 4 - 72 mins
Metal Gear Solid 5 - 72 mins
Ghost Recon Wildlands - 72 mins
Far Cry 5 - ~72 mins
The Witcher 3 - 96 mins
Kingdom Come: Deliverance - 96 mins
Elex - 120 mins
State of Decay 2 - 120 mins

The signifcant similarity I've found is that in the overwhelming majority of these games, the daytime length is much longer than nighttime. Zelda is one of the rare open world games that has an even 50/50 split between daytime and nightime.

In my completely (not) scientifically sound research I've found that 48 minutes seemed to be a common sweet spot. Don't take this as 100% accurate but I made sure to double-up on sources for each title to get as accurate a time count as I could without digging into each game myself, which I don't have time for.

Wondering why some of your favorite games aren't listed? Well either I couldn't find any day cycle info on
them, I couldn't test it myself, or they don't have traditional day/night cycles (Spider-Man, Shadow of Mordor, Infamous, Assassin's Creed, Dead Island, etc)

random fun facts:
Far Cry 3-4's in-game time is movement based. Stand still and the time stands still.
No Man's Sky - dependent on planet
Animal Crossing - real time (24 hours per day)


So what do you think? Do you prefer short days to long ones?
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Shortness? Are you serious? Just wait till you have shrine riddles that require you to stand at a certain place at a certain time. 48 minutes would be absolutely awful. I think the day night cycle is perfect, in the sense that I've never encountered any issues with it.

Also you know you can easily change the time daytime, right? Pretty much anywhere you are as long as it isn't raining
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
Interesting data. I thought the cycle in BoTW was perfect.

It's twice as long in RDR2 but not divided evenly between night and day, right ? I feel like nights are over super quickly.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Nothing kills atmosphere like the sun going down, the stars coming out, and then the sun coming back up less than 10 minutes later.
Yes, because some other completely arbitrary time cycle is SO much more atmospheric. Unless you're advocating a real time cycle, which would also be terrible, it's hard to make an "atmosphere" argument that isn't purely subjective.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Yes, because some other completely arbitrary time cycle is SO much more atmospheric
Yep. I think night needs to last at least 15 minutes. Anything shorter than that is a problem. I'm especially not fond of games that accelerate time after dark. Homefront: The Revolution did this, which felt ironic considering how beautiful the night-time lighting was.
 

Rivyn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,709
I honestly believe that the transition between the day and night cycle should be diverse in open world games because it tends to suit the game's atmosphere/gameplay more. I felt that, in Dying Light, the transition was perfect because wandering around the city during the day could become an incredible danger because nightfall happened on a faster pace. When the night hit, the more powerful enemies came out and you had to hurry your ass back to a safe hideout.

When the transition compliments the gameplay I honestly do not care how long it takes.
 

UsoEwin

Banned
Jul 14, 2018
2,063
I also prefer longer cycles. I think an hour on each would be nice, with the option of camp to change time.
 

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,617
That seems short for Zelda but I don't recall ever being annoyed by the cycle while playing so it clearly didn't matter to me.

Pokemon has been real time since gen 2, and is fucking terrible for it

If anything they need to go even more all in on it. I loved the cycle in Gold/Silver Buy feel its not used nearly as well in modern games. The visuals aren't as distinct, the mons aren't as different, the npcs don't react as much...
 

Agent 47

Banned
Jun 24, 2018
1,840
I thought the same thing when playing BoTW. 12 minutes of day time is very short.

Minecraft is worst for it, especially when going out farming materials then it's suddenly night and everything wants you dead.
 

Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,129
Australia
Yeah these are always way too short, I think even 48 minutes is weird feeling. It's odd exploring the countryside in RDR2 and experiencing the whole night go by in 20 minutes.

One of the first things I did when I installed Oblivion on PC years ago was find the ini setting to increase the day length, found the sweet spot was around a couple of hours (too long ago to remember exactly). It made exploration actually feel more real, all those long nights fighting back to the nearest town.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
I think time changes in BotW a lot because otherwise it would feel like nothing is happening. Having the weather and day change every few minutes sort of hides how empty and repetitive the world is. And also because it doesn't have a system where you can advance time at any point like Witcher 3 or AC Odyssey, so waiting would be even more tedious.
 
OP
OP
-JD-

-JD-

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,470
Shortness? Are you serious? Just wait till you have shrine riddles that require you to stand at a certain place at a certain time. 48 minutes would be absolutely awful. I think the day night cycle is perfect, in the sense that I've never encountered any issues with it.

Also you know you can easily change the time daytime, right? Pretty much anywhere you are as long as it isn't raining

I think so. I'm not that far in the game, but from how I play the game 95% of the time will determine how I feel about the day lengths. A shrine riddle or a few probably won't change that.

I know you can change the time of day. Most of these open-world games let you do it at will. But it's an extra step and I am lazy.

Interesting data. I thought the cycle in BoTW was perfect.

It's twice as long in RDR2 but not divided evenly between night and day, right ? I feel like nights are over super quickly.

Most open world games are not split evenly between day and night. From what I've found, daytime is usually much longer than night.

For example, Rust is 45 minutes daytime, 15 minutes night. I believe Dying Light is like that as well.

I honestly believe that the transition between the day and night cycle should be diverse in open world games because it tends to suit the game's atmosphere/gameplay more. I felt that, in Dying Light, the transition was perfect because wandering around the city during the day could become an incredible danger because nightfall happened on a faster pace. When the night hit, the more powerful enemies came out and you had to hurry your ass back to a safe hideout.

When the transition compliments the gameplay I honestly do not care how long it takes.

Yes I agree. Time of day transitions should be matched to a game's style and structure.

I think if I make another thread about day/night in games, it'll be collecting data about the split between daytime and nighttime in various games.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,464
How exactly do you define "proper" day-night cycle? Just more to your liking? I don't mind any of those time spans; different numbers for different games. 24min was fine for BotW because it made for easy timing of tasks and it makes the distance you travel seem more epic.
 

Teeth

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,933
random fun facts:
Far Cry 3-4's in-game time is movement based. Stand still and the time stands still.

The Division is like this too. It's a pretty ingenious way to hide the shadow crawl as the sun moves. When you stand still and look at things, seeing the building shadows move across the environment can be pretty jarring, but when you're running around, you're rarely looking at the same spot for more than a second, so you don't even notice at all.

So many different games use 48 minutes as a day, I wonder why that is?

Easy mathematical division - 2 minutes for every hour. It also gives a good variety of lighting conditions without feeling like time is fast forwarding.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
If anything they need to go even more all in on it. I loved the cycle in Gold/Silver Buy feel its not used nearly as well in modern games. The visuals aren't as distinct, the mons aren't as different, the npcs don't react as much...
That would only serve to make things worse since not everyone will be able to enjoy the differences. SM's time shift is merely a bandaid on a wound rather than an actual solution.

I don't see the reason for RPGs to have real time cycles. Especially if they do something with it.
 
OP
OP
-JD-

-JD-

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,470
I never realized some of these cycles were short. But is there any reason why you wrote Dawgs instead of Dogs?

Just for fun. lol

How exactly do you define "proper" day-night cycle? Just more to your liking? I don't mind any of those time spans; different numbers for different games. 24min was fine for BotW because it made for easy timing of tasks and it makes the distance you travel seem more epic.

I should've been more clear. I just meant a day-cycle that is time based and not mission or event based.

No Assassin's Creed Odyssey? I'd say that's about 60 mins no?

I couldn't seem to find any conclusive info for AC Odyssey nor Origins. I don't have either game so I can't test it.

If someone can do it that'd be great. :)
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
I never noticed it with Breath of the Wild, but games like Final Fantasy XIV often annoy me with how they stick rigidly to a 12 hour day, 12 hour night pattern. So many areas become very boring to explore when it's night, and vice versa. IIRC it gets dark in BotW at 9p.m. and the sun starts rising at 5, which feels a lot more immersive

Also yeah I kinda hate Pokémon's real time system, but more because the plot and world don't adjust to it. 8 year olds are just standing in forests at 11pm like it's no big deal.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I wish they were longer. I find most way too short. And night is often not dark enough. Or different enough.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
The Division is like this too. It's a pretty ingenious way to hide the shadow crawl as the sun moves. When you stand still and look at things, seeing the building shadows move across the environment can be pretty jarring, but when you're running around, you're rarely looking at the same spot for more than a second, so you don't even notice at all.



Easy mathematical division - 2 minutes for every hour. It also gives a good variety of lighting conditions without feeling like time is fast forwarding.
Whoa. I never considered it was for that reason. I guess I thought it was more to keep much from happening if you stood still without pausing the game.
 

jariw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,283
I think time changes in BotW a lot because otherwise it would feel like nothing is happening. Having the weather and day change every few minutes sort of hides how empty and repetitive the world is. And also because it doesn't have a system where you can advance time at any point like Witcher 3 or AC Odyssey, so waiting would be even more tedious.

There is a mechanism to advance time in Breath of the Wild. It's like one of the most basic features.
 

Bloodforge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
943
Earth
I prefer longer, I want games to let you play in real time if you prefer as well. Just give me a wait mechanic to skip to different times of day if needed.
 

Teeth

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,933
Whoa. I never considered it was for that reason. I guess I thought it was more to keep much from happening if you stood still without pausing the game.

I'd have to look into their GDC talks again, but I think they also do it to hide some of the artifacting that comes with interpolating between the baked shadow maps, since objects/visuals in motion are much more difficult for the human eye to perceive noise.

It's a very smart, very practical solution to a technical graphics issue.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
I'd have to look into their GDC talks again, but I think they also do it to hide some of the artifacting that comes with interpolating between the baked shadow maps, since objects/visuals in motion are much more difficult for the human eye to perceive noise.

It's a very smart, very practical solution to a technical graphics issue.
Yeah, for sure. I love when there are clever tricks like this to solve common problems. Not that it's a very relevant solution for 2D game dev, but I'll probably hang onto it anyway.
 

gcwy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,685
Houston, TX
Even though I think the 48 mins for Rockstar's titles fits the way their game worlds are designed, I always thought it would be interesting if they had a longer day/night cycle.
 

glasiche

Avenger
Feb 12, 2018
474
If anything they need to go even more all in on it. I loved the cycle in Gold/Silver Buy feel its not used nearly as well in modern games. The visuals aren't as distinct, the mons aren't as different, the npcs don't react as much...

I completely agree with this. It may be inconvenient for a portion of players, but that was a part of the game and added extra substance
 

Pata Hikari

Banned
Jan 15, 2018
2,030
I think time changes in BotW a lot because otherwise it would feel like nothing is happening. Having the weather and day change every few minutes sort of hides how empty and repetitive the world is. And also because it doesn't have a system where you can advance time at any point like Witcher 3 or AC Odyssey, so waiting would be even more tedious.
It's pretty impressive how every single point in this post is wrong bar the words "I think"
 
Jun 26, 2018
3,829
Shortness? Are you serious? Just wait till you have shrine riddles that require you to stand at a certain place at a certain time. 48 minutes would be absolutely awful. I think the day night cycle is perfect, in the sense that I've never encountered any issues with it.

Also you know you can easily change the time daytime, right? Pretty much anywhere you are as long as it isn't raining

Requiring people to sit around and wait is bad game design.

Not letting people easily skip waiting is further bad game design.
 
Nov 4, 2017
7,349
Watch_Dawgs - 48 mins
Sleeping Dawgs - 48 mins
Dragon's Dawgma - 48 mins
Fixed that for you.

I think the 48 minute mark is the sweet spot. I honestly didn't notice MGSV had a day/night cycle in-mission, and days on BotW felt frustratingly short to me at times. So long as the player can change the time of day though, I don't think it matters too much.
 

Teeth

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,933
Yeah, for sure. I love when there are clever tricks like this to solve common problems. Not that it's a very relevant solution for 2D game dev, but I'll probably hang onto it anyway.

Yeah, with where modern systems are at these days, for 2D stuff, there really wasn't anything we found we couldn't brute force from a technical end. It's always just the amount of time it takes to create the art assets, ha ha.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,321
72 minutes in Fallout 4 seems perfect for me. I can deal with the 48 minute turnaround time but that 72 minutes is the sweet spot for me.