Fair enough ! You'll admit its much easier to add gameplay features and content than having to rewrote your code to try to fix things on top of everything else ^^
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Anthem |OT| GaaS Effect
- Thread starter iFirez
- Start date
This is pretty much how I play GAAS games myself. I definitely understand that there's problems with Anthem but by the time I "finished" what's in the game between the campaign, contracts, side missions, strongholds, hanging around Fort Tarsis etc, I probably had about 40-45 hours already put into it. I can't speak for anyone else but I feel like I personally got my money's worth already. Heck I put far less into other games and feel satisfied.
Right now I'm just running strongholds and contracts and customizing and then when I tire a bit I play other games in between, waiting for the next update or content drop.
I don't think Anthem broken to it's core? It was actually a really fun game to play mechanically and the issues largely come from loot/content/QoL that can all be fixed in the long run. The issue is I have less faith in whoever's managing it than others have in the product. Whilst the QoL stuff is slowly getting fixed the more important issues aren't being fixed or even talked about. I was pretty hopeful early on because I find the combat/travel way more fun than more of the other shlooters out there but it's dead now due to shitty management.
Well at least I am not alone, haha. It just feels like people would be better served sometimes if they just played these types of games at a slower pace so as not to accentuate their perceived shortcomings, instead of rushing through as fast as possible to exacerbate them.
I think your questions are perfectly valid and really shows a sort of discrepancy in how games like, for example, Horizon Zero Dawn and Anthem are judged in a different manner.
In Traditional games, usually, there is a market pitch where the developers tell you "Hey, this is our game, these are the things there are on it right now, do you like it?" and if people like what was shown, they play all that was in the game and it was good, then cool, it was worth the money and time I spent on this, I got what they told me and it was fine. Sometimes people like it so much, the developers announce an expansion, a DLC, or even a new campaign in some games (Like Horizon and Witcher), for example. The thing is, the game is sold as a finished product.
Some games, however, are sold not only on what the game offers now, but what they will offer in the future. In the case of Anthem, Destiny, Fallout, and some MMO's, too, the game that is SOLD is not just the game you will get at launch, but the promise also contains new content that will come in a predetermined pace, and a longevity to the gameplay that will make you play between these updates. When they sell you these games, they are PROMISING you that you will get a ton more quests, items, enemies, etc. IT IS part of the package. If that promise is broken or it turns out the new stuff is really underwhelming, people are on their absolute right to complain.
In Anthems case, specifically, Bioware said time and time and time again that these things would becoming giving players new reason to keep playing the game forever (The game director actually said that). And it seems more and more that they are not going to honor their part of the bargain.
Thanks so much for the response. Your description is among the best ways I've seen GaaS games articulated as selling the promise, and part of that promise is releasing content at a predetermined pace...I guess right now the main argument is that the content isn't coming fast enough. But, for slower players, or players jumping in later, it seems like Anthem (and likely the same holds true for other games like it), that many of these issues are mitigated by coming in late. It just seems odd to me that people would consider Anthem "dead" when, somewhat ironically, the later you start playing the arguably better experience you'll be getting. Whereas if you buy Horizon last year or buy it today, the game will essentially be the same, by comparison.
Anthem is absolutely a game that will be a much better experience the later you play it, assuming it doesn't get killed. It's had major improvements since launch already, it's just that the major improvements are still not nearly enough to bring it up to where it should have been at launch.
I don't think the comparisons to what happened to Andromeda are entirely apposite, because single player RPGs that undersell are never going to make a lot of extra money because most people who did buy the game don't buy DLC, particularly for a game that reviewed poorly, so it makes sense to cut your losses for a publisher.
Whereas GaaS are supposed to have longevity and be a constant revenue stream, so EA will have entirely different expectations of what they can earn from it. There's been a fair few things datamined recently suggesting it's going to be handled differently from Andromeda, which had a number of bug fix patches but no additional content aside from a couple of multiplayer characters. There's signs of the cataclysms, more strongholds, more masterworks, and more cosmetics (including some pretty nice armour sets like the military style ranger one from the Freemark cinematic).
Of course, it's still EA so who knows whether they'll just half-assedly push out these and the rest of the act 1 roadmap and call it a day.
I don't think the comparisons to what happened to Andromeda are entirely apposite, because single player RPGs that undersell are never going to make a lot of extra money because most people who did buy the game don't buy DLC, particularly for a game that reviewed poorly, so it makes sense to cut your losses for a publisher.
Whereas GaaS are supposed to have longevity and be a constant revenue stream, so EA will have entirely different expectations of what they can earn from it. There's been a fair few things datamined recently suggesting it's going to be handled differently from Andromeda, which had a number of bug fix patches but no additional content aside from a couple of multiplayer characters. There's signs of the cataclysms, more strongholds, more masterworks, and more cosmetics (including some pretty nice armour sets like the military style ranger one from the Freemark cinematic).
Of course, it's still EA so who knows whether they'll just half-assedly push out these and the rest of the act 1 roadmap and call it a day.
I hope I don't come off as a dick or anything, but I appreciate the new content, QoL improvements and some of the changes they have made with this patch. Yeah, it blows that the other stuff will take more time, but it is still nice to get some FREE content and QoL changes. I know people tend to be very negative because who bitches about something when they are happy but just wanted to throw out that I for one appreciate that BioWare gave us new content and some much needed QoL changes. Granted there is much more that needs to be fixed/done, but just want to throw BW a bone and say "Thank You" for this new content.
I think it's possible to feel like you got your money's worth with the game, and *also* feel incredibly disappointed/frustrated in a lot of core things about Anthem. That's the camp I'm in
Same here. I liked the campaign, the characters, the Fort Tarsis interaction, and the gameplay is really fun. I just can't accept some really stupid loot design decisions obviously fueled by ego driven top guys who can't admit they're wrong. Ah, and I really want to know who designed the incredibly intuitive and useful freeplay map, that's really something else.
What you mentioned is a complaint people mention alot in OTs and it's largely to do with expectations and mindset. Largely from those that have never played an mmo, ie those who arent use waiting for 'content' (not every update is a new level) at a semi regular pace. Too many people keep thinking GaaS games need to be THE game they play for months on end, instead of a game they check in with periodically. PVE Destiny players have gotten use to this cycle. The reason people treat it differently comes down to that expectation of time vs reward. These games are meant to designed to replay missions dozens of times, presumably to achieve some greater strength or goal.
The illusion of progress is critical and games that don't respect people's time, like anthem with it's stingy drop rates ON TOP of really bad roll system, earn people's ire. What are they getting stronger for? To replay the same 3 missions for the 300th time? No one pops in Tomb raider expecting to keep playing it for 200 hours, but people who buy anthem did. They wanted to be hooked and in love, so the pendulum of hate swings back way harder when they realise the shell of a game they paid money for isn't looking like it will support that expectation
i just logged in to try the new stronghold...am greeted with a message that i have too much gear and i cant to anything until i salvage some stuff in the vault.
I go to vault. 465/250.
i have to salvage over 200 items...ONE...BY...ONE.....
I go to vault. 465/250.
i have to salvage over 200 items...ONE...BY...ONE.....
hmmm did they decrease the vault capacity? I haven't played in a long time
no lol.
thank god, i found out i can just mark them all as junk (still i have to go one by one pressing R to mark them as junk) and then salvage them all
New stronghold is great and the launch new mission from end of expedition was probably my most wanted QOL feature. But..
I hope at least the rest of the delayed april roadmap features make it sometime in may at least. I.e legendary missions 2, additional progression, guilds etc. Doesnt seem impossible or unrealistic to me based on the content they HAVE managed to get out since launch. And that it was all at some point planned for april.
Particularly want the progression stuff (whatever that is lol) goals to work towards while doing the legendary hunting.
And we really need a blog post for their plans for may soon (subject to change). Not in the last week of may like april. Should be every week imo. Even if it's not a promise, tell the community what the current intention is. They really should have communicated that certain features were not on schedule a couple of weeks ago. Surely they knew then. To put a blog post up 5 mins before the patch saying "the whole roadmap is delayed tune in may for more details" was insulting. Basically they have to communicate more often.
/rant
I hope at least the rest of the delayed april roadmap features make it sometime in may at least. I.e legendary missions 2, additional progression, guilds etc. Doesnt seem impossible or unrealistic to me based on the content they HAVE managed to get out since launch. And that it was all at some point planned for april.
Particularly want the progression stuff (whatever that is lol) goals to work towards while doing the legendary hunting.
And we really need a blog post for their plans for may soon (subject to change). Not in the last week of may like april. Should be every week imo. Even if it's not a promise, tell the community what the current intention is. They really should have communicated that certain features were not on schedule a couple of weeks ago. Surely they knew then. To put a blog post up 5 mins before the patch saying "the whole roadmap is delayed tune in may for more details" was insulting. Basically they have to communicate more often.
/rant
It's a bug:
- Vault space – After the 1.1.0 update players may have noticed that the space in their vault has increased or gone over the limit. This was due to a bug being fixed where Ranger items were not properly being taken into account for space. Clearing out items from your vault will fix this issue.
Ah I had noticed that a lot of my gear wasn't registering in the count before the patch. Fortunately I'm pretty religious about salvaging stuff so it didn't cause any problems for me.
On another note, the new stronghold really is pretty good. It's the one with the best and most unique design so far. It's also quite long so HoR is going to remain the favourite for speed and legendary drop rate.
So if they fixed the Legendary Freelancer bug, why does it still show me as not even completed any of the Javelin objectives? I have a Legendary Javelin yet it doesn't even show me as having an Uncommon, Rare, Epic or Masterwork.
Fixed it my ass. And why am I still getting pilot data error? Like seriously, it's hard to remain positive with all this shit.
Fixed it my ass. And why am I still getting pilot data error? Like seriously, it's hard to remain positive with all this shit.
If you haven't already, I'd try deleting all your loadouts, closing the game, delete any local save data then restarting and creating a new default loadout.
I probably could, just seems ridiculous that I should have to. I'll give it a go next time I'm on...maybe.
Same for me but i'm not too worried the reward is like 2000 coin.
So, I like the new Stronghold... but there is no real reason to keep playing this game.
I think the thing that Destiny got right was the amount of varied content. Individual missions and even Strongholds are highly interchangable and other than the setting play out identically.
I haven't really played much Destiny 2, but by the end of year 1 of Destiny 1 we had: Crucible, Strikes, Dailies, Raids, Iron Banner, Trials of Osiris and Prison of Elders.
Iron Banner was kind of meh, but the rest were all really cool play modes and there was end-game gear tied to each of them.
Here, we have.. RNG gear tied to any and all missions. The only daily worth doing is to get your keys to the chests.. So, basically my play pattern is "log on, get key, do one Stronghold" and then log off.
This game has a content and reward problem. They need to completely redo the loot tables and tie specific end-game loot to specific actions by players.
I remember at the end of Destiny would have time specific unlocks that would give you gear/banners/anything other players didn't have. There is literally no way for me to tell if other players are cooler than me, have done stuff I havent or even who among us is wrecking shop.
My gut feeling is the cataclysm is (or was) going to be underwhelming AF. It seems they thought we were all mostly interested in the story progression and the return of that bald guy from that one cut scene who was the Monitors leader and not loot and reasons to keep coming back to the gameplay.
I think the thing that Destiny got right was the amount of varied content. Individual missions and even Strongholds are highly interchangable and other than the setting play out identically.
I haven't really played much Destiny 2, but by the end of year 1 of Destiny 1 we had: Crucible, Strikes, Dailies, Raids, Iron Banner, Trials of Osiris and Prison of Elders.
Iron Banner was kind of meh, but the rest were all really cool play modes and there was end-game gear tied to each of them.
Here, we have.. RNG gear tied to any and all missions. The only daily worth doing is to get your keys to the chests.. So, basically my play pattern is "log on, get key, do one Stronghold" and then log off.
This game has a content and reward problem. They need to completely redo the loot tables and tie specific end-game loot to specific actions by players.
I remember at the end of Destiny would have time specific unlocks that would give you gear/banners/anything other players didn't have. There is literally no way for me to tell if other players are cooler than me, have done stuff I havent or even who among us is wrecking shop.
My gut feeling is the cataclysm is (or was) going to be underwhelming AF. It seems they thought we were all mostly interested in the story progression and the return of that bald guy from that one cut scene who was the Monitors leader and not loot and reasons to keep coming back to the gameplay.
The thing is, their problem is easily fixable but they cannot since its directly tied to their microtransaction system. In Destiny, you have a ton of activities, sure, but they would all be useless if they didnt have specific rewards tied to them. For example:
If you have crucible, strikes, nightfalls, raids and public events, but they all give the same rewards, they players will all flock to the thing that give them the faster chance at a new "lever pull" on the slot machine. What happens now is that every activity has specific loot tied to hem, and since loot in Destiny IS cosmetic, players will think "That crucible armor is not really good, but that nightfall exclusive gun is dope, So I will be trying to get that" and people will keep playing.
What Anthem could do, but wont, is for example, giving each month an armor set for a specific activity. The Sunken stronghold could have an exclusive, timed armor with lore and relation to that place, that would drop in pieces with a really rare chance on a boss kill for the Javelin you are using. Then, next month, there could be a SCAR themed armor set that dropped from Tyrant mine.
Like, this doesnt need a revamp of whole loot systems to work.
Yeah, for sure.
In a weird way they also shot themselves in the foot with all of the customization options in the game. Like, I can already do a ton of customization for free. Then, you aren't wrong. They wanted to make the coolest emotes, armor, etc. tied to real world currency. So, now there is no grind, just hand them cash to look cool.
Part of Destiny was grinding to get a cool shader, or to get a dope ship.
Here, it's just RNG pull the most efficient method (HoR) on repeate to grind your stats for no real purpose. Like, I can do better at HoR if I get my stats up? And then if I'm better at HoR my lever pulls become quicker than before. So I can... keep doing HoR?
There is no progression to daily activity. In Destiny I would often find myself running Strikes or whatnot to get the coins to buy the weekend loot from Xur hoping to get good enough to beat a Raid on a higher level so I could get better chances of dropping cool cosmetics so that I could go back to the crucible and look cool.
Destiny has an entire "economy" of activities that played off of one another. So I did X to do Y so I would get Z to show off in A.
The lack of social spaces that matter in Anthem (and their solution right now has been to reduce all social spaces to a menu so you never have to leave a menu. Sure, QoL is better, but now there is NO sense of space with other players outside of missions, and the only thing anyone is doing in Anthem is grinding for the sake of... grinding? I feel that they are giving angry redditors exactly what they are asking for instead of thinking of ways to make the annoying things less annoying. The entire design of Tarsis not having other players in the social space was so fucking stupid. Like, look at any MMO game, they all have a central hub or hubs where you can look cool, dance like an idiot or whatnot and they give you a reason to WANT to be there. But Anthems loading problems and lack of social space have led Bioware to just.... reduce the entire "outside of the mission" game to a menu system. That's solving a technical limitation with a solution that actually worsens your core issue (lack of feeling of community).
Destiny of course had a lot of these same issues at launch, but they buttoned those up and got content out by this point (Vault of Glass) and the Dark Below was less than 2 months out from release. The only end-game content we're being promised has been delayed to some later point.
They are working out of sheer desperation, to the point they are killing all other aspects of the game to fix an immediate problem (QOL). Destiny has a lot of obtuse systems (Like the shader dismantling for example) but a lot of the "downtime" that game has actually give it a sense of space and a lived in world. When you get back from an expedition, you drop on the tower, see all other Guardians doing their stuff, go check the postmaster, dismantle some stuff, visit Tess...
Because the loading screens were so grating, they responded by killing the "downtime" people had by making the game almost menu based. You are not even a character anymore that belongs in a world, you are just the player grinding stuff for the sake of grinding it.
Yeah, at some point in time someone should have realized the technical limitations of making Tarsis look as good as it does was not worth the trade-offs. I'm guessing Frostbite is the culprit behind a lot of these problems, but yeah. They are taking a hatchet to players' connection to the world. I literally ran the new Stronghold before I even knew what the "story" was because the game didn't make me talk to someone to unlock it.
Like, one of the few things about this game I *liked* was the world it's set in. Now that's gone and we're down to a solid core gameplay loop that while good turns out is not "60 hours with no payoff" good.
Indeed. For a looter to not have voluminous, varied, and gratuitious amounts of things to *loot* is just an unacceptable proposition, full stop. Like, look at the loot pools of any decent looter game on the market and you will find games with *hundreds* items, with at least 20%-30% of which being completely unique physical designs, perks and artwork.
Anyone playing Path of Exile, Diablo 3, Destiny, Borderlands, Warframe, Torchlight, and so on should be laughing their asses of at this shit. We understand why the game is in this state, but they took my money unapologetically so they are deserving of no sympathy. If they gave a fuck about us, they wouldn't have released the product in this state, at $60. So they can kiss my ass.
It's wild how they are willing to let greed/bottom line impact their game's content.
I think the reason we haven't gotten a single peep out about cosmetics is that it's their only source of revenue right now, correct? From the game, I mean? Entire armorsets were mined/shown off 1+ months ago. They still are content to trickle them out.
Add armor (or even like Warframe does, with pieces + a blueprint throughout several missions and I'm back, no doubt. Works great in the interim while they sort their shit out and decide the game's future.
I think the reason we haven't gotten a single peep out about cosmetics is that it's their only source of revenue right now, correct? From the game, I mean? Entire armorsets were mined/shown off 1+ months ago. They still are content to trickle them out.
Add armor (or even like Warframe does, with pieces + a blueprint throughout several missions and I'm back, no doubt. Works great in the interim while they sort their shit out and decide the game's future.
There is no way sales are bringing in much revenue at this point, so yeah. My guess is the 10-20K hardcore players plopping down 5 a week for armor and emotes are like 90% of their money.
To be fair, it's a hard line to thread between "this way is most efficient" and "this way immerses you in the world better". Really their biggest fundamental mistake was making Ft Tarsis a single player only zone and not putting any hot spots around the map to warp to.
https://www.gamesradar.com/dragon-a...-big-focus-as-anthem-loses-its-lead-creators/
Not looking good for major updates or long-term support.
Not looking good for major updates or long-term support.
Bioware Austin were always going to takeover the live service. This was always the plan.
Though having said that player population does seem to have shrunk a lot. Increasingly common I have to solo the Monitor fight on GM2 because everyone leaves and no one replaces them.
Though having said that player population does seem to have shrunk a lot. Increasingly common I have to solo the Monitor fight on GM2 because everyone leaves and no one replaces them.
Anyone who gave a shit and was following the game actively (rather than riding the reddit-repost wagon of gloom and derision) knew the ongoing live game was going to be run by the BW team experienced with doing exactly that. Saw that thread pop up attempting to whip up yet more controversy, rolled my eyes, then watched it fade away like a fart in the wind. I think even those who enjoyed their time hating on the game have had their fill and just can't arsed anymore, so that's a positive at least.
Not surprising the player population is waning, though - simple fact is more people get to the point where the game can no longer reward their time sufficiently, and only a hardcore few will keep coming back at that point. Has to be said that's a point that sees a player clock up more hours than the average game, but not one that's supposed to be on-going. The level of activity in this thread no doubt directly correlates with the current state of the player base. #ghosttown
QoL updates are fine and welcome to those picking the game up right now and going forwards, just a shame everyone who bought in early had their experience tarnished or practically ruined...no point going over any of that now. But most won't see any point returning to the game until there's a 2.0-level rework of the post-campaign game play loop - genuine and compelling reasons to fire the game up.
Austin can keep working away on new activities and story content drops and trickle those out, but dropping them before the framework of the game is up to the task of really taking the game forward would be every bit as bad as BW releasing the game in the state they did in the first place. It'd be better to save all that up for a huge and meaningful update, one that will attract attention and compel people to jump back in. Launching a new stronghold when there was absolutely nothing a player could gain by running it was utterly pointless. Any further similar updates when the game sits as it does will be equally dumb as they will make $fuckall difference to the amount of people engaging with the game.
Not surprising the player population is waning, though - simple fact is more people get to the point where the game can no longer reward their time sufficiently, and only a hardcore few will keep coming back at that point. Has to be said that's a point that sees a player clock up more hours than the average game, but not one that's supposed to be on-going. The level of activity in this thread no doubt directly correlates with the current state of the player base. #ghosttown
QoL updates are fine and welcome to those picking the game up right now and going forwards, just a shame everyone who bought in early had their experience tarnished or practically ruined...no point going over any of that now. But most won't see any point returning to the game until there's a 2.0-level rework of the post-campaign game play loop - genuine and compelling reasons to fire the game up.
Austin can keep working away on new activities and story content drops and trickle those out, but dropping them before the framework of the game is up to the task of really taking the game forward would be every bit as bad as BW releasing the game in the state they did in the first place. It'd be better to save all that up for a huge and meaningful update, one that will attract attention and compel people to jump back in. Launching a new stronghold when there was absolutely nothing a player could gain by running it was utterly pointless. Any further similar updates when the game sits as it does will be equally dumb as they will make $fuckall difference to the amount of people engaging with the game.
Ghosttown seems about right. Playing through the story right now and i can barely find any players via public matchmaking. If I'm lucky I get one player every once in a while for the Yarrow and Brin side missions. Otherwise, have to do most of it solo. Kind of a bummer since I actually enjoy the game enough to keep playing despite all the issues it has.
Yep. The difference is I'd think if it had done better the leads and a larger team would have worked on expansions and an eventual sequel. Like Destiny where they have a live team and another team(s) for the bigger expansions and the sequel.
Who knows what's going on over there with the tweet above though. In any case, I can't see EA giving them funds for any big expansions or a sequel with the poor reviews, sales and MT revenue that I'm sure is way below their expectations and the diminishing player base.
I'll keep my copy a while longer in case my buddy wants to play together, but otherwise I got my money's worth and haven't touched it in a couple weeks. Otherwise I'm bored and done with it.
My buddy and I had a fun weekend playing through the campaign and are waiting for significant changes to jump back in. I continue to be fascinated by this game and the development fiasco, so I'll continue to watch this thread and check in on the reddit.
Otherwise I've moved on.
Otherwise I've moved on.
The tombs aren't near the end of the story are they? I'm working my way through meeting the requirements (which are a blatant example of artificially extending playtime) so I'm not sure what the expectation will be afterwards. I already know the "twist" so I guess the end of tombs will just lead to resolving the plot twist.
This is laughable. We knew a long time ago that people from DA4 were pulled to work on Anthem. We also knew that the game would be handed over to a live team in Austin after release. Now people are losing their minds because those things are happening.
I wish the "community" just allowed the devs to go dark for a few months and work on the game. Instead they're nagging them no matter what they do.
I know the Elysian chests were always going to be a limited time thing. Still lame to take them away without adding something new to chase. Why not leave them active until they had new content ready?
Anyway, I at least had good luck last night and got 4 legendaries after not playing for a couple of weeks. One was useful and got me to 760 and Legendary Storm finally.
Anyway, I at least had good luck last night and got 4 legendaries after not playing for a couple of weeks. One was useful and got me to 760 and Legendary Storm finally.
Finally got around to doing that new stronghold. Not a big fan of it. I don't like having puzzles in these type of things as they're annoying to figure out the first time (I just don't like puzzles) and just tedious in repeat playthroughs. The final boss was also a ridiculous bullet sponge (even by this game's standard) on GM2. Doubt I'll run it again unless my buddy wants to. HoR is just too fast and with more chances for better loot drops with the titan, furies etc. for the rare instances I'll want to do a stronghold now that the Elysian Chests are gone. I've had better lucking getting legendary drops from legendary contracts.