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Chronos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,204


GamingBolt examines EA's culpability vs Bioware's. I timecoded the section that I've always wished Anthem did: leverage its flying mechanic more.


This is a really good point that a lot of reviews seems to miss. Probably the biggest missed opportunity for Anthem in not leveraging the flight/mobility in a meaningful way. Would have been something remarkable to elevate the game to something special.
 

Uthred

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
They *want* the game to get to that place eventually but doesn't for various reasons (BSI was technically to much for the last gen consoles, for example).

What they "want" and what they make you pay for based on the lies they told are two different things and only the latter matters. If they didnt create the game they advertised then they have lied to you. Again, what they wanted is immaterial compared to what they sold. If what they sold didnt match what they wanted why didnt they issue a press release informing potential consumers that the game being sold did not match the game advertised? How the sausage is made can be of interest but to the person eating it it only matters what the butcher put in it.

It's... confusing that they spent so many years in pre-production and came up with almost nothing.

It's even more confusing that a game whose design was so obviously culled from competitors products that they failed to at least reach the basic level of those competitors.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Once again, do you know how video games are made? Several public demos are aspirational 'vertical slices' that symbolize what they want the final game to look like at release but aren't necessarily indicative of what it looks like then. Sometimes this works out (Uncharted 4) and sometimes this does (BioShock Infinite). But it's not like the team is lying and showing you a game that only existed to sell copies. They *want* the game to get to that place eventually but doesn't for various reasons (BSI was technically to much for the last gen consoles, for example).
This has been a poor excuse since people started making it. If what theyre showing is just a demo meant to give us an idea of what the game will entail fine. But if youre going to advertise it, and not only that, but actively state this is real game footage, you best make damn sure you publicly let everyone know if core features you showed off are no longer in the final version of the game. Devs dont get to have it both way and I'm tired of seeing people defend it. You can show off what you intend your game to be in a way so as not to be so deceiving. And devs regularly don't do it and shouldn't be defended for it.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
I don't entirely agree with their post but I do think each mainline Battlefield release has been worse than the last since BC2 in my opinion.
BC2 was the peak of Dice for me, BF3 was good but not quite as good, BF4 was a buggy mess but still a decent game, BF1 felt more polished than 4 but also leaner and stripped back and BFV is BF1 with its problems exacerbated.

I never played either new Battlefront so I can't speak on them. Mirrors Edge: Catalyst was disappointing but I don't think it was a bad game. Hardline is.... Hardline, MoH was hot garbage, Hot Pursuit was fine if boring.
I can agree BC2 was great and what followed was inferior. Part of that might be nostalgia, but I enjoyed BC2's simplicity. I didn't like 3, overall. I thought 4 became amazing after a roughy start , and One was refreshing. It did a lot more right than wrong. Saying Dice hasn't made a good game since BC2 is simply absurd to me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,506
Bandung Indonesia
Once again, do you know how video games are made? Several public demos are aspirational 'vertical slices' that symbolize what they want the final game to look like at release but aren't necessarily indicative of what it looks like then. Sometimes this works out (Uncharted 4) and sometimes this does (BioShock Infinite). But it's not like the team is lying and showing you a game that only existed to sell copies. They *want* the game to get to that place eventually but doesn't for various reasons (BSI was technically to much for the last gen consoles, for example).

So we should judge a game based on what the developers *want* it to be compared to what it is presented to us? So they should be able to promote a game based on how they *want* it to be instead of what it *actually* is?
 
Nov 14, 2017
1,587
A lot of talk of Andromeda being a lackluster, messy, mismanaged result of the Bioware Montreal 'B' team, but seems like reality was the whole of Bioware was in over their heads and stumped by a difficult engine.
Can't blame the engine for the lackluster story tbh.

Sure, loading times, etc are an issue, but using the engine as an excuse for everything ain't gonna work.
 

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
2,106
Australia
Can't blame the engine for the lackluster story tbh.

Sure, loading times, etc are an issue, but using the engine as an excuse for everything ain't gonna work.
Yep, I'm willing to use the engine excuse for some of this games technical flaws but Anthem has way too many design flaws and narrative issues for me to hold BioWare in the kind of high regard I once did. I'm sure the people working there are talented but that talent isn't being put to use by management.
 

Deleted member 9100

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
Anthem should not be compared to Fallout 76. Come on people. It isn't even close.

Fallout 76 is a bad game. Anthem is a bad game.

I played both and had a much better time with Fallout 76. The tehcnical issues and terrible design choices in Anthem (crazy load times, can't change guns mid game, no way to mark waypoints on a map, no stats) bothered me far more than the issues Fallout 76 had and still has.

I can't believe they thought it was acceptable that when you get downed, you literally can't do anything, even access the options menu until you are revived.
 

ADS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
872
I think it says a lot that currently Tetris 99 has more viewers on Twitch than Anthem.

I really wanted this game to be good, I'm hoping EA gives Bioware a chance to fix it and in a year we're all talking about how it got FF14-ed and is amazing now.
 

Dysun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,975
Miami
Twitch numbers are in the tank after the end of paid streams and variety streamers had a shot at it. Doesn't look promising by that metric either
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Twitch numbers are in the tank after the end of paid streams and variety streamers had a shot at it. Doesn't look promising by that metric either
Opening weekend never cracked top 5 and had trouble staying in top 10, sometimes even falling below the 20s. Its nearly unheard for a game of this magnitude to not have the first week of release dominate viewership.
 

Gatti-man

Banned
Jan 31, 2018
2,359
I'd say the problem is there are few ideas period. Like Destiny isn't exactly bursting with originality, but it clearly has a lot of work put into its worldbuilding, aesthetic design, cool guns, etc.

Like compare the enemy factions. Destiny released with the Vex, the Fallen, the Hive, and the Cabal. All of these had well-defined back stories, visual and audio identities, gameplay, etc.

Anthem released with... The Scar, the Dominion, and a bunch of random monsters. Neither the Scar not the Dominion are really interesting baddies. The Scar are apparently based on insects? Their main visual identity seems to be having a lot of spiky bits, but they're still power-armored humanoids that basically act as bullet sponges. Well what about the Dominion? They're... Power-armored humans. Huh. Really exciting. And then you have some of the biggest challenges in the game being random Titans that just... Exist? It feels so half-baked.
And Destiny was slayed on the other forum for not being enough content, not enough enemies etc. and d1 had easily twice the content anthem does at launch not to mention functioning map and free roam. Anthem might match D1 at launch in 3-4 months and that's being optimistic.
 

Deleted member 1041

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,725
And Destiny was slayed on the other forum for not being enough content, not enough enemies etc. and d1 had easily twice the content anthem does at launch not to mention functioning map and free roam. Anthem might match D1 at launch in 3-4 months and that's being optimistic.

the thing is d1 was still fun to play and you didn't reach the end of content by playing the campaign, as there were still exotics to gain and iron banners to participate in.
 

Gatti-man

Banned
Jan 31, 2018
2,359
the thing is d1 was still fun to play and you didn't reach the end of content by playing the campaign, as there were still exotics to gain and iron banners to participate in.
I loved D1 but many people hated it and derided its lack of content. Which is funny since D1 had a shit ton of content for a GaaS game looking back and comparing it to others. If you said GaaS games in 2019 would have half as much content you probably would have been banned back then lol.
 

Deleted member 12379

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,999
Just FYI, if anyone bought into Origin Access for the demo on Jan 25th you have 1 day to cancel if the monthly membership isn't your thing. I've canceled for now but I'll gladly rejoin if/when the game improves.
 

Deleted member 1041

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,725
I loved D1 but many people hated it and derided its lack of content. Which is funny since D1 had a shit ton of content for a GaaS game looking back and comparing it to others. If you said GaaS games in 2019 would have half as much content you probably would have been banned back then lol.

Right, it had the bare minimum amount of content. Like Even Division 1 had more content! But to see Anthem come out with what feels like half the amount of content(Like..D1 launched with what, 5 Strikes?), no stat page, no multiplayer(Which helped Destiny 1 with the content droughts)

Like Anthem...has alotta issues that D1 never had.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
So we should judge a game based on what the developers *want* it to be compared to what it is presented to us? So they should be able to promote a game based on how they *want* it to be instead of what it *actually* is?

Indeed.

The mental gymnastics to defend flawed corporate practices just because it has been prevalent within AAA industry to varying degrees of success, is gold worthy.
 

sxiebonjour

Member
Oct 25, 2017
697
z9g14xolodi21.png
Purely savage...
 

cabelhigh

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,722
So we should judge a game based on what the developers *want* it to be compared to what it is presented to us? So they should be able to promote a game based on how they *want* it to be instead of what it *actually* is?

I mean, in an ideal world, absolutely not, but how are big games supposed to advertise themselves when there's nothing to show? If games really do come together in the last few months and weeks, that's just not long enough time frame to hype your game.

Listen, I think companies absolutely have to do more to own up to dev changes in their games. But what if something that's shown early on in a vertical slice is part of the code design doc of a game, and then in the last six months gets thrown out and reworked? Were they lying to us, selling us a promise of an idea that actually didn't turn out good at all?

I just can't get behind everyone saying that the devs were collectively lying about their game. But I totally agree that publishers need to be more up front about what players are getting day 1 and how it differed from initial trailers.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I mean, in an ideal world, absolutely not, but how are big games supposed to advertise themselves when there's nothing to show? If games really do come together in the last few months and weeks, that's just not long enough time frame to hype your game.

Listen, I think companies absolutely have to do more to own up to dev changes in their games. But what if something that's shown early on in a vertical slice is part of the code design doc of a game, and then in the last six months gets thrown out and reworked? Were they lying to us, selling us a promise of an idea that actually didn't turn out good at all?

I just can't get behind everyone saying that the devs were collectively lying about their game. But I totally agree that publishers need to be more up front about what players are getting day 1 and how it differed from initial trailers.
Again you're ignoring the simple, ethical solution to this-that is 1. Stop advertising that your techn demos are your actual game and 2. Be transparent about when changes happen leading up to release.

Saying "well game development is hard so it's fine if they're misrepresenting their game cause things change" is a poor line of reasoning to defend developers who do this. It may not be lying if something gets shown and then removed, but it's incredibly dishonest to not be forthcoming about those changes when you ship your game. And it's not acceptable.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
Really it comes down to under promising and then over delivering. Had it been modest and priced modestly, the reception to its state and future growth would be more understanding.
 

Josecitox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
390
Argentina
I can agree BC2 was great and what followed was inferior. Part of that might be nostalgia, but I enjoyed BC2's simplicity. I didn't like 3, overall. I thought 4 became amazing after a roughy start , and One was refreshing. It did a lot more right than wrong. Saying Dice hasn't made a good game since BC2 is simply absurd to me.

BC2 was peak DICE, BF3 was an insult to what BF2 was but had some cool elements and introduced one of the most disgusting mechanics in every single Frostbite era BF game, suppression. BF4 had the worst launch ever of any BF game due the amount of problems it had, and it was fixed thanks to community feedback and DICE LA, the auxiliary studio created specifically for that, a lot of their progress was limited by DICE Stockholm due pride and respect to their original vision. BF Hardline? Trash, BF1 and BFV are both flawed games. I don't even need to mention both Battlefront games.
And don't even get me started on the amount of bullshit that came out of DICE devs around BF3 and BF4 era, very few are somewhat respected to this day and a lot of those left DICE. Even the trailers made for the games are worse due Roland Smedberg not being in DICE anymore lol.
 

Seneset

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,072
Limbus Patrum
We're going to play a game, it's called "watch this part below and then realize it's in fact a lie", it's a lot of fun I'm sure you're going to enjoy it.



In case your video doesn't load it's at 10:50 seconds and it shows a not so old trailer talking about the deep "real time story telling".

There are other multiple examples like this throughout the review, including recent interviews / trailers.

No excuse.


Interesting part of that sequence to me is they show at least two clips of one place I know is in the game but isn't Fort Taris. I'd guess the others are things cut from the game?
 

cabelhigh

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,722
Again you're ignoring the simple, ethical solution to this-that is 1. Stop advertising that your techn demos are your actual game and 2. Be transparent about when changes happen leading up to release.

Saying "well game development is hard so it's fine if they're misrepresenting their game cause things change" is a poor line of reasoning to defend developers who do this. It may not be lying if something gets shown and then removed, but it's incredibly dishonest to not be forthcoming about those changes when you ship your game. And it's not acceptable.

Yeah, once again, I agree that they need to be more forthcoming with what is and isn't indicative of final gameplay. I think the practice of passing off vertical slices as actual gameplay is bad, but also i guess I assume that most people on here release it's smoke and mirrors anyway.
 

Orangecoke

Member
Jan 14, 2019
1,812
A lot of these reviews touch on variety, enemy AI, and guns/gunplay...

It made me want to go back and try Destiny 2. I haven't played since well before Forsaken. I'm only level 21 in fact. So I started playing Curse of Osiris (which I think is considered a disappointing DLC?).

The difference, to me, is stark. I find D2s enemies so much more engaging to fight, every gun looks/sounds/feels cool, and the game is taking me through quite a variety of locales (visually).

I think, because of that shortcoming of Anthem, they are going to be more vulnerable to losing players to Div2, new Destiny season, and other competitors. Especially when you factor in the repetition and the light/late roadmap...
 

darkwing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,949
A lot of these reviews touch on variety, enemy AI, and guns/gunplay...

It made me want to go back and try Destiny 2. I haven't played since well before Forsaken. I'm only level 21 in fact. So I started playing Curse of Osiris (which I think is considered a disappointing DLC?).

The difference, to me, is stark. I find D2s enemies so much more engaging to fight, every gun looks/sounds/feels cool, and the game is taking me through quite a variety of locales (visually).

I think, because of that shortcoming of Anthem, they are going to be more vulnerable to losing players to Div2, new Destiny season, and other competitors. Especially when you factor in the repetition and the light/late roadmap...

yup, people are waiting for the Season of the Drifter content on Destiny 2
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,325
So we should judge a game based on what the developers *want* it to be compared to what it is presented to us? So they should be able to promote a game based on how they *want* it to be instead of what it *actually* is?

No, I think the point here was "they were not lying" but "they overestimated their ability".

Should you judge them based on what they said? Sure. But they weren't trying to deceive you. They just weren't able to achieve what they set out to do. There is no practical difference in the end, but there is a moral one, at least. Once again: no reason not to expect what they promised and not to criticize, ok? Overpromise and underdeliver - people will be rightfully disappointed.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,325
Can't blame the engine for the lackluster story tbh.

Sure, loading times, etc are an issue, but using the engine as an excuse for everything ain't gonna work.

Yeah, but lackluster to what? RPG games like Witcher or first 3 ME games? Oh yeah, it's totally lackluster. Compared to other GaaS games like Destiny and Division? Not that bad. In fact, I still don't really understand what Destiny is about and Division was.... something near future something terrorists?
 

Almagest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,447
Spain
No, I think the point here was "they were not lying" but "they overestimated their ability".

Should you judge them based on what they said? Sure. But they weren't trying to deceive you. They just weren't able to achieve what they set out to do. There is no practical difference in the end, but there is a moral one, at least. Once again: no reason not to expect what they promised and not to criticize, ok? Overpromise and underdeliver - people will be rightfully disappointed.
I don't know, this sounds like an excuse to me. There are technical feats they surely knew they couldn't achieve using this gen's hardware, especially the base consoles... the illumination quality? the number of NPC's in fort Tarsis? the lush foliage? the immense scope? I do believe they'd have loved to be able to achieve all that for sure but it's also patently clear to me that at the time they already knew they wouldn't but still used those assets to create hype and sell the game through the eyes.
 
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aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,325
I don't know, this sounds like an excuse to me. There are technical feats they surely knew they couldn't achieve using this gen's hardware, especially the base consoles... the illumination quality? the lush foliage? the immense scope? I do believe they'd have loved to be able to achieve all that for sure but it's also patently clear to me that at the time they already knew they wouldn't but still used those assets to create hype and sell the game through the eyes.

True, I guess.
 

shimon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,578
A lot of these reviews touch on variety, enemy AI, and guns/gunplay...

It made me want to go back and try Destiny 2. I haven't played since well before Forsaken. I'm only level 21 in fact. So I started playing Curse of Osiris (which I think is considered a disappointing DLC?).

The difference, to me, is stark. I find D2s enemies so much more engaging to fight, every gun looks/sounds/feels cool, and the game is taking me through quite a variety of locales (visually).

I think, because of that shortcoming of Anthem, they are going to be more vulnerable to losing players to Div2, new Destiny season, and other competitors. Especially when you factor in the repetition and the light/late roadmap...
Anthem is the best possible advertisement for Destiny 2 and Division 2. The definition of "This is how NOT to do stuff".
 

Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,059
How is it that the 'loot' in a bonefide 'loot shooter' is tacked on gutter trash level content?

Also, how is it every bit of the 2017 reveal trailer looks more interesting, dynamic and fleshed out than the release 2 years later? Even the single gun that drops is eons ahead of the piles of shit that drop in this game.

Seriously, get on right now and look at the 'featured' item in the store. I waited till the timer was up to see what was next. It's all blank boxes. If you click on the box it immediately crashes the game. Lolol

Clusterfuck levels of broken shit
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,100
Chesire, UK
We're going to play a game, it's called "watch this part below and then realize it's in fact a lie", it's a lot of fun I'm sure you're going to enjoy it.



In case your video doesn't load it's at 10:50 seconds and it shows a not so old trailer talking about the deep "real time story telling".

There are other multiple examples like this throughout the review, including recent interviews / trailers.

No excuse.


Man. It's a disgrace.
 

Green Yoshi

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,597
Cologne (Germany)
Just heard a German podcast about the game. He doesn't like Anthem but says that the dialogues, writing, voice acting and cutscenes are much better than in Mass Effect: Andromeda. Maybe it would have been better if the developers of Andromeda had made Anthem instead and the developers of Anthem had made Mass Effect: Andromeda.
 

Deleted member 8784

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,502
I think what upsets me the most is that the enemies don't seem to react to your bullets. They don't flinch, recoil, or seem to give any sort of feedback - they just keep running at you or shooting at you. It makes the weapons feel really lackluster and makes everything feel a bit "static".
 

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,533
Just heard a German podcast about the game. He doesn't like Anthem but says that the dialogues, writing, voice acting and cutscenes are much better than in Mass Effect: Andromeda. Maybe it would have been better if the developers of Andromeda had made Anthem instead and the developers of Anthem had made Mass Effect: Andromeda.
Shit...you're right.
 

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
2,106
Australia
Just heard a German podcast about the game. He doesn't like Anthem but says that the dialogues, writing, voice acting and cutscenes are much better than in Mass Effect: Andromeda. Maybe it would have been better if the developers of Andromeda had made Anthem instead and the developers of Anthem had made Mass Effect: Andromeda.
I'm not entirely sure I agree with the dialogues, writing and cutscenes. Voice acting is no competition though. There are like 3 characters in the game who I looked forward to talking to - Brin, Dax and Haluk - and at best they were on the level of like Liam or Cora. Overall story writing was closer but Anthem had lower lows AND lower highs when compared to Andromeda. The villains are equally as bad though IMHO, they both felt equally as unintimidating. Cutscenes and overall direction were about on par.

I do agree with the sentiment that if the teams were switched for the projects I think we would be talking about 2 better games right now.

Edit: Oh I didn't see this posted yet, here's Angry Joe's extended review, I agree with pretty much everything that was said.
 
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Br3wnor

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,982
One thing I want to clarify from Fran's gamecast 'review' (more his impressions really) is that no actual loot drops from the end game stuff? By his description, when you're doing the Strongholds the only reward you get is coins and mats which you use to make masterwork armor? Is that true?

That would be the biggest turn off for me. I understand in Destiny 2 that I'm 'grinding' when doing end game content, but the thrill comes from the drops and maybe gettin an exotic I don't have or a legendary that I've been seeking out. Hell, it's the core component of any loot game. The idea that my end game is simply grinding for mats so that I can craft armor is really off putting, IF TRUE. Do you at least get gun drops w/ the end game stuff?
 

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
2,106
Australia
One thing I want to clarify from Fran's gamecast 'review' (more his impressions really) is that no actual loot drops from the end game stuff? By his description, when you're doing the Strongholds the only reward you get is coins and mats which you use to make masterwork armor? Is that true?

That would be the biggest turn off for me. I understand in Destiny 2 that I'm 'grinding' when doing end game content, but the thrill comes from the drops and maybe gettin an exotic I don't have or a legendary that I've been seeking out. Hell, it's the core component of any loot game. The idea that my end game is simply grinding for mats so that I can craft armor is really off putting, IF TRUE. Do you at least get gun drops w/ the end game stuff?

Not true. Items have a chance to drop from all enemies (including MW and Legendary), there are chests at checkpoints and the final bosses drop items as well. No one uses the crafting system as it's borked. Also you don't craft armour, armour is purely cosmetic and at this point doesn't drop anywhere in the game as far as I know. Theres only a couple of sets in the game at the moment and all have to be bought. (Not counting the pre-order armour). Items do give you armour as a stat but it has nothing to do with what you physically look like.
 

vodalus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,220
CT
the best thing for this game would have been to create tons more content and release at the beginning of next gen, where all flaws are not longer magnified
 

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
2,106
Australia
the best thing for this game would have been to create tons more content and release at the beginning of next gen, where all flaws are not longer magnified
I would be willing to bet that's what BioWare wanted to do. There's no way any BioWare employee that sat down and played this game from start to finish didn't know how this was going to be received, even accounting for self-bias, there are so many, SO MANY OBVIOUS issues. It's obviously being forced out of the nest by EA, which I don't really blame them for by the way, it's not long before the development cycle for this game would be closing in on a decade and that's A LOT of sunk cost.