Any Ex-Jehovah Witnesses on ERA?

Deleted member 2809 · Dec 10, 2018

I opened my door to two JWs about 3 years ago, I was super hungover and was barely dressed, there was a grandma and a cute girl with her (probably there to keep your attention I guess ?), took me a good minute to figure out who they were and then they rambled for 15 minutes while I was nodding and petting my dog. Surreal experience.
I have no idea how their cult is still legal in France though. I think they have an HQ close to where I live now, I see plenty of them with their shopping trolley thing going in and out of that one place.

Magni · Dec 10, 2018

Hero of the Wild said:
I was travelling in Australia about 16 years ago, and at the time was living in a caravan on a campsite. I was lying in bed probably playing Metroid fusion on gba when someone started knocking on the door.

2 smoking hot girls, politely asking if they could come in for a chat. I had no idea what was happening and honestly thought maybe this was going to be my lucky day.

They were jehovahs witnesss trying to get me to join. I just pretended to listen, took the leaflets and they left.

Not really a great story but that's my experience with the Jehovah's Witness. Pretty hot but also boring.

Similar happened to me a while back. Tal about an instant turn-off.

To the exJWs in this thread, if you ever successfully converted someone, did you try to get them back out when you left?

Deleted member 25712 · Dec 10, 2018

PancakeFlip said:
One thing I hate about the organization is how it effects some people who leave. Where their identity becomes an ex-JW, so its still like the person isnt able to really move on. I would like to see more people kind of just close the book on them when they leave.

I see this in ex-Mormons as well (which I am), for a while that's their identity and it's pretty cringy seeing them extol the wonders of what the rest of the world finds completely mundane or inert, like drinking coffee. Eventually I think people move on and it becomes less and less a part of their identity, though I'll say for my part, I still struggle with the after effects even having left over a decade ago

julia crawford · Dec 10, 2018

It's really kind of infinitely sad to see how many people live with these pressures and forced, abusive provincialism.

Wackamole · Dec 10, 2018

They are no threat to me but they have no idea how scary they look and how brainwashed they sound.
They're really creepy in their fake friendliness. I asked them inside for a friendly conversation. They seemed "almost human", for the lack of a better term.
Almost like an Ai.

Nemesis121 · Dec 10, 2018

My marriage ended because my wife join JW, her best friend convinced her to join, she wanted me to join, told her no, 1 year after she join she kicked me out on the advice of best friend, saying you can find a JW husband lol, since then she has never found a husband, not a single guy asked her out(Karma) she's still single....hahahahahahaha

bremon · Dec 10, 2018

My latest experience with people doing their "service" was my most pleasant doorknock experience yet; my doorbell rings, I'm handed a copy of the Watchtower, they thank me, I tell them to have a nice day, they leave, and I put it in recycling. They should really just hang doortags with a URL on them. Much less waste in recycling than magazines that way.

Strangelove_77 · Dec 10, 2018

Anyone post those creepy cg cartoons yet?

For example:

And here's 90 minutes of them

Herne · Dec 10, 2018

It's pretty scary reading this stuff. America has a lot of weird extreme fundamentalist stuff going on it seems. From this side of the pond it's decidedly odd.

Wackamole · Dec 10, 2018

Strangelove77 said:
Anyone post those creepy cg cartoons yet?

For example:

And here's 90 minutes of them

Truly one of the most inhumane religions. Absolutely inhumane. This shit should be illegal. Infuriating.

BennyBeGoode · Dec 10, 2018

Strangelove77 said:
Anyone post those creepy cg cartoons yet?

For example:

Reminds me of my childhood, when I had to throw my Pokemon trading cards in the trash because they were "satanic".

Inuhanyou · Dec 10, 2018

My only experiences witrh JW is to shut the door in their face. Seems like i have not been missing mutch.

AshuraSenku · Dec 10, 2018

I used to "be" a JW. Although, I never really believed in it since I was always forced to go to the Kingdom Hall by my parents since birth. My mother also had me and my siblings do Bible study sessions( I had to pretend I believed in it, shit was so boring). It wasn't until my mother remarried that she saw how ridiculous the cult was. She was exiled from the hall because apparently remarrying after a divorce counts as adultery. She could attend a session but she'll be shunned by everyone.

Colonel Getafe · Dec 10, 2018

I am absolutely fascinated by people who leave JWs and LDS groups.

You guys are genuine heroes.

The JWs have switched tactics in the last few years. Now found loitering around commute intersections.

TheIlliterati · Dec 10, 2018

Nemesis121 said:
My marriage ended because my wife join JW, her best friend convinced her to join, she wanted me to join, told her no, 1 year after she join she kicked me out on the advice of best friend, saying you can find a JW husband lol, since then she has never found a husband, not a single guy asked her out(Karma) she's still single....hahahahahahaha

The odds are definitely against her. There are way more single women JWs than single men. As a single man though you also have to be perfect, so your life is hell.

BennyBeGoode · Dec 10, 2018

AshuraSenku said:
I used to "be" a JW. Although, I never really believed in it since I was always forced to go to the Kingdom Hall by my parents since birth. My mother also had me and my siblings do Bible study sessions( I had to pretend I believed in it, shit was so boring). It wasn't until my mother remarried that she saw how ridiculous the cult was. She was exiled from the hall because apparently remarrying after a divorce counts as adultery. She could attend a session but she'll be shunned by everyone.

Yeah, same happend to my mom. I was still living at home so I was allowed to speak to her, but my older brother was already living on his own and shunned her. She cried for serveral nights, because she missed him. She missed his wedding and the birth of her first grand-child. She got re-instated after 8 years, but the relationship between my mom and my brother won't ever be the same. Also, now that I left the organisation, I get shunned by my mom. It's all f'd up!

Biggersmaller · Dec 10, 2018

My pastor growing up called it a cult. That JWs were not Christian because they denied the most basic tenant of Christianity:

That Jesus was God.

LookAtMeGo · Dec 10, 2018

Wackamole said:
Truly one of the most inhumane religions. Absolutely inhumane. This shit should be illegal. Infuriating.

Remember when Hitler did that?

Wackamole · Dec 10, 2018

LookAtMeGo said:
Remember when Hitler did that?

When Hitler did what? Make it illegal?

LookAtMeGo · Dec 10, 2018

Wackamole said:
When Hitler did what? Make it illegal?

Ya. I'm not a fan of the religion but I can't really get behind the idea of laws against practicing them. Especially ones who are so non violent.

Or you mean the videos?

Bruceleeroy · Dec 10, 2018

Biggersmaller said:
My pastor growing up called it a cult. That JWs were not Christian because they denied the most basic tenant of Christianity:

That Jesus was God.

You should find a new pastor Jesus being God is found nowhere in the Bible. Should do a little research into why that's even a belief system

Wackamole said:
When Hitler did what? Make it illegal?

Yeah you know why? Cause they refused to ostracize the jews or gypsies and refused to go to war.
Definitely should ban them.

Wackamole · Dec 10, 2018

LookAtMeGo said:
Ya. I'm not a fan of the religion but I can't really get behind the idea of laws against practicing them. Especially ones who are so non violent.

Or you mean the videos?

Oh i meant the inhumane way they treat people (But Hitler himself was king in that). But i don't want to ban religions per sé.. I do think we could do perfectly fine without them though. But what i have read about the way they operate and how they treat and brainwash people, i think that's criminal. Some already have rules that are against country laws. But i'm mostly concerned about things i consider inhumane.

I'm not for killing them or something super brutally extreme like that.

Bruceleeroy said:
Yeah you know why? Cause they refused to ostracize the jews or gypsies and refused to go to war.
Definitely should ban them.

They probably have some decent ideas in there. But plenty of disgusting shit too. Again, i'm mostly about the dumb inhumane things.
I would never want people to do inhumane things against them.

Snagret · Dec 10, 2018

Was raised a Jehovah's Witness, managed to get out and "deprogram" myself in my teens with the help of the internet and some online friends. I basically had to flip my entire worldview upside down in order to start "thinking straight". I still struggle with some of the deeper psychological damage it did that will likely never be undone.

Still have some lingering social anxiety from being raised to view everybody who wasn't a jehovas witness (basically, every stranger) as potentially dangerous and untrustworthy. On the surface you're supposed to think of people as potential converts, but behind the scenes there's a lot of talk of "worldly" people (especially in regards to people who "stray from the truth" aka ex-JWs) that's intended to scare you into keeping socialization outside the congregation to an absolute minimum.

There's also (at least when I was in it) a very strict idea of how family dynamics should be structured that basically meant the father was the head of the household and everyone else should be subservient. I endured over a decade of severe physical abuse from my stepfather, behavior that was essentially normalized by the teachings of the congregation because "he probably knew what was best". My mom wanted to divorce him and leave, but wasn't allowed to and was told that disolving the family unit established by god would've been a far worse sin than the abuse itself. We were encouraged to avoid getting the police or child protective services involved, and to only disclose the abuse to the elders in the congregation, who listened to us describe what was going on and then did absolutely nothing at all.

Also, to this day I still occasionally have nightmares about the end of the world that have been recurring since I was old enough to conceptualize such a thing (my first one was around 4 or 5).

It's jesus-flavored cult brainwashing, plain and simple.

Bruceleeroy · Dec 10, 2018

Any issue you have with Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole can only stem from having an issue with the Bible.
If you don't believe the Bible was inspired by God then of course everything they do isn't going to make sense to you.
The largest thing that separates JW's from the rest of Christian Denominations is they hold the Bible and what it says above all else.
Nothing they believe in or practice stems from anything but the Bible.

The Albatross · Dec 10, 2018

Wow, really surprising to hear directly from an ex-JW in this community. Best of luck, OP.

Obviously I'm not a JW or ever have been or anything (I'm an atheist who would be a Catholic if I'm anything), but I was always really fascinated by the church of Jehova's Witnesses and as a theology major I spent a lot of time in undergrad studying them. I've only had very pleasant interactions with JW's and I'm not bothered by anybody preaching to me, coming door to door, or anything, I find them very nice people although I have a personal problem with how kids often have to accompany them door to door... I think that's hard, but I get why it is.

I was also really into the batshittery of the Watchtower.

Sad what former members have to go through, it's really sad, especially kids who are born into the church.

Biggersmaller · Dec 10, 2018

Bruceleeroy said:
You should find a new pastor Jesus being God is found nowhere in the Bible. Should do a little research into why that's even a belief system.

This is simply not true. Thomas called Jesus God to his face, Jesus said he and the father were the same person, additionally Jesus said he predated Abraham. On top of all of that, simply read John 1 from the beginning:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people[c] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son[d] from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.'") 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.[e] 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God,[f] who is at the Father's side,[g] he has made him known.

LookAtMeGo · Dec 10, 2018

Snagret said:
Was raised a Jehovah's Witness, managed to get out and "deprogram" myself in my teens with the help of the internet and some online friends. I basically had to flip my entire worldview upside down in order to start "thinking straight". I still struggle with some of the deeper psychological damage it did that will likely never be undone.

Still have some lingering social anxiety from being raised to view everybody who wasn't a jehovas witness (basically, every stranger) as potentially dangerous and untrustworthy. On the surface you're supposed to think of people as potential converts, but behind the scenes there's a lot of talk of "worldly" people (especially in regards to people who "stray from the truth" aka ex-JWs) that's intended to scare you into keeping socialization outside the congregation to an absolute minimum. Also, to this day I still occasionally have nightmares about the end of the world that have been recurring since I was old enough to conceptualize such a thing (my first one was around 4 or 5).

It's jesus-flavored cult brainwashing, plain and simple.

Ah yes, the good ol Armageddon dreams. I've had so many fucked up variations of those over the years. Fully believing in something so terrifying can do a number on you for sure. Every once in a blue moon when I feel a lot of anxiety, I will think about my old beliefs drilled into me at the kingdom hall. All it does is make the anxiety worse. Makes me angry. I feel like I had a lot of potential as a kid but it all went to shit since none of my skills mattered since they were worldly and good for nothing. When I left, I still harbored a lot of the beliefs. It took a long time to get it out of me. Its been a long time now and I still find my mind going back there every so often. Definitely fucks you up for life.

HypedBeast · Dec 10, 2018

Strangelove77 said:
Anyone post those creepy cg cartoons yet?

For example:

And here's 90 minutes of them

I remember when these first came out, the whole Hall was excited. It kind of showed the increase in budget for JW Media in comparison to the relatively low budgets of their past dramas.

Heres the one about how being gay is wrong and unnatural.
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachin...ahs-friend/videos/one-man-one-woman-marriage/

Looking in after being out for so long just puts this shit in a much darker context.

Bruceleeroy · Dec 10, 2018

Biggersmaller said:
This is simply not true. Thomas called Jesus God to his face, Jesus said he and the father were the same person, additionally Jesus said he predated Abraham. On top of all of that, simply read John 1 from the beginning:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people[c] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son[d] from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.'") 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.[e] 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God,[f] who is at the Father's side,[g] he has made him known.

FACT:
The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention

It was not a belief taught by Jesus or of any of his Disciples. The dogma that Constantine was pushing so hard was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church who couldn't agree if Jesus was of divine origin or was the divine.

Its important first that before I go any further you understand that this WASN'T A TEACHING OF CHRIST OR HIS DISCIPLES.

Now on to John 1:1 and your other scriptures.

Greek (The language the New Testament was written in) doesn't have any indefinite articles ("a" or "an"). So say for instance in Groundhogs Day when Bill Murray says - "I'm not the God I'm "a" God" written in Greek it would say "Billy Murray was God" Which randomly enough is a true statement.

Now after the Greek Manuscripts were written they were also translated into Sahidic Coptic which was spoken in Egypt. Coptic unlike Greek has an indefinite article. When they got to John 1:1 do you know how they translate that verse?

The Word was "A" God

Evidently, those ancient translators realized that John's words recorded at John 1:1 did not mean that Jesus was to be identified as Almighty God. The Word was a god, not Almighty God.

But you're still thinking how do we know that it's really not god.
Because my good sir if you actually read through the Bible you would see how impossible it is that Jesus is god since he himself says he isn't!

What the Bible says:

"My Father is greater than I [Jesus]."—John 14:28. *
"I [Jesus] ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God."—John 20:17.
"To us there is but one God, the Father."—1 Corinthians 8:6.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."—1 Peter 1:3.
"These things saith the Amen [Jesus], . . . the beginning of the creation of God."—Revelation 3:14.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201308/trinity/#footnote2
I love this one right here about Stephen. When he is about to die he sees a vision of heaven with God and Jesus. With your belief they should look similar to Ghidorah but what does he actually see:

Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God's right hand. 'Look! I can see heaven thrown open,' he said, 'and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God.'"—Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

Biggersmaller · Dec 10, 2018

Bruceleeroy said:
FACT:
The Trinitarian dogma is a late fourth-century invention

It was not a belief taught by Jesus or of any of his Disciples. The dogma that Constantine was pushing so hard was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church who couldn't agree if Jesus was of divine origin or was the divine.

Its important first that before I go any further you understand that this WASN'T A TEACHING OF CHRIST OR HIS DISCIPLES.

Now on to John 1:1 and your other scriptures.

Greek (The language the New Testament was written in) doesn't have any indefinite articles ("a" or "an"). So say for instance in Groundhogs Day when Bill Murray says - "I'm not the God I'm "a" God" written in Greek it would say "Billy Murray was God" Which randomly enough is a true statement.

Now after the Greek Manuscripts were written they were also translated into Sahidic Coptic which was spoken in Egypt. Coptic unlike Greek has an indefinite article. When they got to John 1:1 do you know how they translate that verse?

The Word was "A" God

Evidently, those ancient translators realized that John's words recorded at John 1:1 did not mean that Jesus was to be identified as Almighty God. The Word was a god, not Almighty God.

But you're still thinking how do we know that it's really not god.
Because my good sir if you actually read through the Bible you would see how impossible it is that Jesus is god since he himself says he isn't!

What the Bible says:

"My Father is greater than I [Jesus]."—John 14:28. *

"I [Jesus] ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God."—John 20:17.

"To us there is but one God, the Father."—1 Corinthians 8:6.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."—1 Peter 1:3.

"These things saith the Amen [Jesus], . . . the beginning of the creation of God."—Revelation 3:14.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201308/trinity/#footnote2
I love this one right here about Stephen. When he is about to die he sees a vision of heaven with God and Jesus. With your belief they should look similar to Ghidorah but what does he actually see:

Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God's right hand. 'Look! I can see heaven thrown open,' he said, 'and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God.'"—Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

I never said anything about the trinity, I simply showed the Bible describes Jesus is God. Now, is that contradicted by other text as you mentioned?

You bet. But that doesn't prove your point.

Bruceleeroy · Dec 10, 2018

Biggersmaller said:
I never said anything about the trinity, I simply showed the Bible describes Jesus is God. Now, is that contradicted by other text as you mentioned?

You bet. But that doesn't prove your point.

It proves my point that you had a pastor that had no idea what he believed in.
Again fault the Witnesses for anything you want. Just know that nothing they do isn't heavily researched and based on the Bible.

LookAtMeGo · Dec 10, 2018

Bruceleeroy said:
It proves my point that you had a pastor that had no idea what he believed in.
Again fault the Witnesses for anything you want. Just know that nothing they do isn't heavily researched and based on the Bible.

My mom is s bible wiki

Wackamole · Dec 10, 2018

Bruceleeroy said:
Any issue you have with Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole can only stem from having an issue with the Bible.
If you don't believe the Bible was inspired by God then of course everything they do isn't going to make sense to you.
The largest thing that separates JW's from the rest of Christian Denominations is they hold the Bible and what it says above all else.
Nothing they believe in or practice stems from anything but the Bible.

I do have plenty against the bible and i think it's 100% manmade. So yeah.

Bruceleeroy · Dec 10, 2018

Wackamole said:
I do have plenty against the bible and i think it's 100% manmade. So yeah.

Yeah it will be hard to understand where they are coming from then.

HeartlessNobody2134 · Dec 10, 2018

Interesting reading all the comments here. I don't attend meetings anymore even though I have a few family members who do and want me to start back.

It always felt robotic to me and I never had the passion for it.

I myself personally never had any issues with any witnesses however.

newline · Dec 10, 2018

PancakeFlip said:
One thing I hate about the organization is how it effects some people who leave. Where their identity becomes an ex-JW, so its still like the person isnt able to really move on. I would like to see more people kind of just close the book on them when they leave.

I was raised as a JW until I was 16 at which point I left as I saw how toxic it was. I was shunned by my dad and I haven't spoke to him in 10 years now. That being said I literally never think about the religion anymore, stumbling upon this thread is like a blast from the past. Not sure if it's because I left while a was a teenager but I've never struggled with the whole ex-JW thing. Perhaps that's because I was never baptised.

Bruceleeroy said:
Any issue you have with Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole can only stem from having an issue with the Bible.
If you don't believe the Bible was inspired by God then of course everything they do isn't going to make sense to you.
The largest thing that separates JW's from the rest of Christian Denominations is they hold the Bible and what it says above all else.
Nothing they believe in or practice stems from anything but the Bible.

This is essentially what separates my thinking from that of some of my family members. I personally think the bible is hot trash. But that's just my opinion. I wouldn't want to force it on anyone, I'd rather they had the sense to make up their own minds.

LookAtMeGo · Dec 10, 2018

PancakeFlip said:
One thing I hate about the organization is how it effects some people who leave. Where their identity becomes an ex-JW, so its still like the person isnt able to really move on. I would like to see more people kind of just close the book on them when they leave.

That would have been infinitely easier for me if I cut everyone in my family off. Well except 2 of my brothers. I tried for about 10 years when I didnt speak to my parents but I could see it was killing them so I reconnected. Now its just killing both of us. We are managing to maintain some kind of relationship but its mostly just pain for both sides.

F34R · Dec 10, 2018

There are two JW ladies that come to my house each week. They are super nice to me, and I don't mind their company for those 5 mins. They are very polite, never ask me to join anything. They leave me with a pamphlet, tell me to have a nice weekend, and they leave. All the notes I've written down pretty much says they come on Thursdays around 2pm.

LookAtMeGo · Dec 10, 2018

F34R said:
There are two JW ladies that come to my house each week. They are super nice to me, and I don't mind their company for those 5 mins. They are very polite, never ask me to join anything. They leave me with a pamphlet, tell me to have a nice weekend, and they leave. All the notes I've written down pretty much says they come on Thursdays around 2pm.

They are super nice and polite people. Can even be interesting having a good debate with someone knowledgeable. I remember reading an article after a convention they had at the Toronto skydome talking about how the place was cleaner after they left then it was before the convention started. How they've never seen anything like it before. Most of the negative things I have to say about it comes from the many families I have seen it tear apart due to the very strict shunning practices they have (disfellowshipping) and the handling of sexual assault cases internally. Like any Christian sect, I don't agree with their views on things like homosexuality ect. But compared to a lot of other branches of Christianity, I feel like they are a lot more accepting of everyone.

Biggersmaller · Dec 10, 2018

Bruceleeroy said:
It proves my point that you had a pastor that had no idea what he believed in.
Again fault the Witnesses for anything you want. Just know that nothing they do isn't heavily researched and based on the Bible.

Come on. In the short time since the religion was founded, it has been all over the map on beliefs. Most of them wildly extra biblical with many recanted failed predictions.

What "heavy research" justified even current doctrines as:

The angel Michael and Jesus being the same person
That Abaddon and Jesus were also the same person
A current belief that the anointed 144,000 will live in heaven and all other JWs will live on a paradise earth
That hell (or eternal punishment) doesn't exist

PancakeFlip · Dec 10, 2018

Bruceleeroy said:
Any issue you have with Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole can only stem from having an issue with the Bible.
If you don't believe the Bible was inspired by God then of course everything they do isn't going to make sense to you.
The largest thing that separates JW's from the rest of Christian Denominations is they hold the Bible and what it says above all else.
Nothing they believe in or practice stems from anything but the Bible.

This simply isn't true, they basically use the Bible and twist it to fit a business model to keep the org relevant. It would have died a long time ago otherwise.

For example, the body (church) relied on those with more money and livelyhood to provide for those without or with little. Ideally, the org would use the money that is donated to provide for those who struggle with food and clothing in their org (at the least), but they don't, the money goes into expansion and publishing endeavors, or whatever boneheaded scandal they get caught up in. What good is expanding your house if you aren't going to provide for those you invite in?

Monster Zero · Dec 10, 2018

PancakeFlip said:
This simply isn't true, they basically use the Bible and twist it to fit a business model to keep the org relevant. It would have died a long time ago otherwise.

For example, the body (church) relied on those with more money and livelyhood to provide for those without or with little. Ideally, the org would use the money that is donated to provide for those who struggle with food and clothing in their org (at the least), but they don't, the money goes into expansion and publishing endeavors, or whatever boneheaded scandal they get caught up in. What good is expanding your house if you aren't going to provide for those you invite in?

For as long as I've known donations have always been voluntary. I've have personally witnessed some of my friends go to New Orleans and help rebuild fellow witnesses homes during the fallout of hurricane Katrina.

PancakeFlip · Dec 10, 2018

Monster Zero said:
For as long as I've known donations have always been voluntary. I've have personally witnessed some of my friends go to New Orleans and help rebuild fellow witnesses homes during the fallout of hurricane Katrina.

Yeah I'm under the assumption that the donations are willing, but in the first century those donation box funds would be used primarily for poor belivers in the fold, and deffinitely would be used in times of disaster. What you are describing sounds like an offshoot act and not a spirit that flows through the organization itself.

My friend was having issues in this org. He moved to Japan and struggled with his career. Asked for help at his meetings and was met with only critisms with a lack of real support. That same lukewarm not very helpful spirit was at his group in Japan and it caused him to go to a very bad place in his life. Thankfully hes recorvering now.

Arkanius · Dec 10, 2018

My whole family is JW and I was part of it as well.
I broke free, together with my brother and sister.

My parents are ok with it, most JW people I know are chill, but it's still a cult in my eyes. I found their interpretations of the Bible very interesting comparing to normal Christian church, but in the end my Atheism and the fact that I had a crippled childhood due this makes me resent it heavily.

Monster Zero · Dec 10, 2018

PancakeFlip said:
Yeah I'm under the assumption that the donations are willing, but in the first century those donation box funds would be used primarily for poor belivers in the fold, and deffinitely would be used in times of disaster. What you are describing sounds like an offshoot act and not a spirit that flows through the organization itself.

My friend was having issues in this org. He moved to Japan and struggled with his career. Asked for help at his meetings and was met with only critisms with a lack of real support. That same lukewarm not very helpful spirit was at his group in Japan and it caused him to go to a very bad place in his life. Thankfully hes recorvering now.

People are individuals. Do you know how many accounts in the bible I could give you of followers of God sinning and not living up to his standards. From Moses and his brother Aaron all the way up to Paul having to rebuke the apostle Peter for showing prejudice towards non Jewish first century Christians.

Amishpriest · Dec 10, 2018

srsly? said:
Besides some doctrinal differences, doesn't sound too different from the brand of extremist fundamentalist-Evangelical Christianity my parents swallowed when they became "born again" 30 years ago. Advocates of the teachings of a mysterious character named Jack Chick, most renowned as the late author of dozens of comic books to be used by his followers as fire-and-brimstone-style Christian propaganda to children, they went completely off the deep end into virulently anti-Catholic, doomsday-cult-ism. Convinced that we were going to be spiritually-corrupted by mingling in human society, my parents pulled my brother and I out of public school just as we were reaching high school age. The next several years, we were fed a steady diet of rhetoric that the end was near and Jesus was to be returning very soon, where all "true believers" would be raptured with him into heaven just as the Antichrist (the Pope) was ascending to power, bringing about seven years of tribulation and hellfire.

To that end, my parents effectively gave up on life. They basically cloistered all of us up in the house, for fear of encountering the Satanic evil of the world, instructing us to pray daily to God to please come save us from this wicked civilization. In essence, they were just waiting to die, ceasing all social activity, any attempt at maintaining their health, and cutting themselves off from practically all worldly influences. Movies made after 1965 or so were forbidden fare, due to their "corrupting" content. Likewise music, which was to be confined to hymns and possibly classical (although works from Catholic composers were considered suspect). Reading materials comprised the Bible (King James Version only) and various Christian texts, with a fortunate tolerance for the "classics". Attending the local Baptist church at least once a week with them on Sunday was mandatory for a few years, until they decided the religion preached there simply wasn't zealous enough, upon which we were again pulled. I truly believe that, had it not been for the office job my dad had to go to four times a week to maintain our living, they almost never would have left the house. (Besides, we were surrounded in our lower middle-class neighborhood by "scary" Hispanics and blacks.)

All I can say is, thank whomever for the internet, which my dad surprisingly got us hooked up to after a decade of living almost totally sealed off from the world. Otherwise, I'm not sure if I would've found the education, enlightenment, and means of getting the fuck out of there. The ironic postscript to all this is being rejected by my parents for coming out to them as transgender (a.k.a., "apostate", "Satanic", etc., in their words) a few years ago. The whole ordeal has fucked me up pretty well, I assure you, but I don't for a minute regret escaping to finally live my own truth.

(Apologies if this post is a hijack.)

That sounds A LOT like the time I was forced to spend in the United Pentecostal Church growing up thanks to the piece of trash my mom married after divorcing my dad. Really fucked me up even for years after I got out.

LookAtMeGo · Dec 10, 2018

PancakeFlip said:
Yeah I'm under the assumption that the donations are willing, but in the first century those donation box funds would be used primarily for poor belivers in the fold, and deffinitely would be used in times of disaster. What you are describing sounds like an offshoot act and not a spirit that flows through the organization itself.

My friend was having issues in this org. He moved to Japan and struggled with his career. Asked for help at his meetings and was met with only critisms with a lack of real support. That same lukewarm not very helpful spirit was at his group in Japan and it caused him to go to a very bad place in his life. Thankfully hes recorvering now.

Every congregation (church) is slightly different. Depending on the people that go to whatever one. Some are full of the strictest of the strict. Others are full of more laid back and understanding people. All donations are definitely voluntary. No plates being passed around or whatever. Usually just a box in the back with a slit in it to put money in. Yeah a good portion of the money goes to publications and stuff but they do use it to help struggling families around the world in crisis. I remember during the Rwandan genocide in the 90's many JWs fled the country. We had a family come stay with us during that time. We usually always had someone struggling staying with us. Mostly because my mom is a saint . Helping individuals in the church usually falls upon individual families in the church to help out. The funding from that usually wont come from the organization itself.

meowdi gras · Dec 10, 2018

Amishpriest said:
That sounds A LOT like the time I was forced to spend in the United Pentecostal Church growing up thanks to the piece of trash my mom married after divorcing my dad. Really fucked me up even for years after I got out.

My deepest condolences. Hope he's out of your mom's life now, too.

PancakeFlip · Dec 10, 2018

Monster Zero said:
People are individuals. Do you know how many accounts in the bible I could give you of followers of God sinning and not living up to his standards. From Moses and his brother Aaron all the way up to Paul having to rebuke the apostle Peter for showing prejudice towards non Jewish first century Christians.

This doesn't really contradict what I said though, yes people are individuals, but the element of support on a foundational level in this organization if flawed from a Biblical perspective. You can't use individuals to pardon what is systematically an issue with the whole. Them using scriptures to form doctrine that primarily benefits the organizations business structure, while leaving the body to support those with less from additional funding is not the same as individuals erroring.

A more equal comparison would be if Peter tried to justify his prejudice towards Gentiles by tying it into his spritual teachings, which he didn't do.

Depths · Dec 10, 2018

I never knew much about them until recently because I work with 2 JW's. They are very nice people but also very open with explaining their religion. One of the girls is always going on trips to like New York or Chicago to go see the elites at that Watchtower place or whatever. Just the name of that makes it seem cultish. Nice people but I dunno what kind of buffoon you have to be to buy into that junk.

Any Ex-Jehovah Witnesses on ERA?

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