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Anyone else less likely to engage with women devs over twitter following the ANet firings?

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chaos_planes

chaos_planes

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
350
I think we can all agree that these firings have been a huge source of controversy over the past few days, but this thread isn't to discuss them, there s a dedicated thread for that.

However, have the firings and subsequent discussions and thought pieces made you re-think engaging and and discussing development topics with women in the industry over twitter?

I know for me, it certainly has. I will no longer try to offer my point of view, unless a person specifically calls out that they want feedback from the community. The firings have made me realise that really, as a man who isn't employed in the industry, it just isn't my place. I should let these women speak since they already get so much abuse hurled their way even before trying to offer their perspectives over social media.

Not only that, but I wouldn't want to be involved in any situation like this ANet one. I don't think I could live with myself if not only did I get a woman fired by shoving my unwanted opinions over their discussion, but it meant that I was fuelling the gamergate mob (which by default pretty much means you are gamergate).

Anyhow, thoughts? Opinions? This thread is mostly for men not in the industry to post. Women in the industry, please do tell us what is and isn't acceptable (if you wish of course). You have my ear, and I'm sure that of many many others.
 
Khamsinvera

Khamsinvera

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,580
No - why?

I'm not going to shy away from a civil public discourse with anyone, irrespective of gender / race / sexuality / etc.
 
HK_1

HK_1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
37
Is this really the way? To patronize and interact with women as if they were aliens, just treat them like normal human beings ffs, they aint special creatures that need to be coddled
 
Vincent Grayson

Vincent Grayson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,865
Mount Airy, MD
I can't say I agree with the notion that "as a man", it's not your place to...what? Discuss a thing?

I absolutely don't support any mistreatment of anyone, but this idea that we shouldn't engage in discussion on social media platforms just doesn't resonate with me. What happened in the situation mentioned is regrettable on every level, but the person least "to blame" for the situation is the guy who simply offered an opinion in response to a post about a game development process on a public forum (because that's what Twitter is, fundamentally).
 
SirBaron

SirBaron

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
853
What the...

It doesn't matter what gender you are, it doesn't matter if you're in the industry or not.

Giving your opinion on something is just that, giving your opinion. If the other person gets prissy about it, I don't see what gender has to do with that.

Seriously, my head.

Treat people how you want to be treated. Gender shouldn't have to come into it. Respect people regardless of gender. That's it. Is it really that hard?

If someone gave their opinion about my work I wouldn't automatically assume stuff because of their gender, I would listen and respond (normally) to what they said, if I agree or disagree like I would expect of anyone if I did the same to them.
 
ggdeku

ggdeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
758
Just don't be a dumbass. It's not that hard to have a respectful interaction with another human lmao.
 

WilsonDukeOfLizards

Member
Apr 24, 2018
29
I feel like the question should be: "will women gamedevs be less likely to engage with customers on Twitter after this?" Who are the people most likely to be harassed/hurt in this situation? Those are the people we should be concerned about.
 
Juraash

Juraash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,362
Maybe I'm not quite the right person to respond, but unless someone is asking for my feedback, I'm unlikely to give it. At least as far as games go. I'm not going out of my way to find or engage these people in a discussion about their work.

If I don't like something, I'll enage and discuss with other fans, but that's all.

My (limited) understanding of this whole situation is that some devs said some stuff a bunch of gamegaters got pissed and managed to get these people fired. If that's even remotely accurate, all it makes me want to do is not support ANet.

Edit: Also just don't be an asshole to people. Even though I don't engage in that type of discourse, doesn't mean I think the idea is bad. If people just acted decent and didn't think that an opinion is a license to be horrid or that their opinion must be taken as gospel, things would work much better.
 
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benzopil

benzopil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,150
Not really, I hope most of them understand what Twitter is and why they are writing things
 
OP
OP
chaos_planes

chaos_planes

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
350
WilsonDukeOfLizards said:
I feel like the question should be: "will women gamedevs be less likely to engage with customers on Twitter after this?" Who are the people most likely to be harassed/hurt in this situation? Those are the people we should be concerned about.
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Yes, this is the other side of the coin. I'm just thinking from my point of view - i.e the best i can do from where i am sitting is to just not offer what are probably dumb suggestions in the first place because i am not in the industry. i think it would be cool if there was like a ringfenced community for those in the industry to discuss, but allow those of us onthe outside to follow along. that may be a better format for discusions
 

78skidoo

Member
Apr 16, 2018
8
I barely ever do, however the firings had nothing to do with the guy who instigated the conversation and very little to do with the fact the developer was a woman. He was polite and seemed to back off fairly quickly when it was apparent she wasn't interested in a discussion.

If she didn't want to talk and want random people to see what she had written, then why is her twitter stream public?

Even then, all she had to do was say sorry, not interested in a discussion tonight and eveyone would have just backed away and gotten on with their lives.

While unfortunate and while her firing was possibly too harsh a punishment. the situation could have been totally avoided with a little forethought.
 
guek

guek

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,177
This is idiotic. Women aren't aliens, just stop acting like your opinion is singularly important. This goes for pretty much everything.

Having a platform to voice your opinion doesn't make your opinion worthwhile.
 
Dio

Dio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,097
i'm not an asshole, nor talk to others in a condescending tone, so no, i wont stop.
I hope you're joking.
 
Spaltazar

Spaltazar

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,105
3f2.jpg


how do you people always get/draw these ideas/conclusions
 
Khamsinvera

Khamsinvera

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,580
I'm not going to talk to this dev because she's female.

I'm going to talk to this other dev because he's male

... you see how ridiculous that is?
 
AxeVince

AxeVince

Member
Oct 26, 2017
580
Devs are okay with questions about their work, not affirmation about how they should do it (probably like anyone else doing any job).
I have no problem interacting with devs, as I mostly want to know how they do it. On occasion, I tell other devs how me and my team did on past projects to resolve a problem, what the pros and cons of our method were. Never how they should do it.

If your fear is to get in the middle of trouble, then go ahead and don't interact, but as long as you don't try to tell someone how to do their job, you should be good.
The fact that the person you'd be talking to is a woman or not matters not, trying to tell to someone how to do their job (even if you do the same job) is insulting as you are probably not in the same position as they are.

Armchair "devs"/"analysts" often think they know better and that is the problem.
Would you go tell a chef in a Michelin star restaurant how to cook meat if you cook in your own kitchen ?
Probably not. You could ask that chef how they do and compare methods though, and that would probably be more constructive.
 
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Wulfram

Member
Mar 3, 2018
1,478
I'm less likely to engage with any dev, since many of them seem to find it offensive. Not going to discriminate based on gender.
 
Enduin

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,488
New York
I don't and wouldn't to begin with. It's one thing to talk about games, critique them and make suggestions on an open forum with other random people, but it's very different to directly try to engage with a creator or Dev on their social media unsolicited with advice or suggestions about their work.

Gender has nothing to do with it. My passion or interest in a game doesn't mean I have any special insight that warrants me directly contacting a professional about their job.

Doesn't mean you can't interact with them at all, just you know, don't be an asshat about it.
 
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