Anyone here vote for Trump?

Areyis · Oct 28, 2017

I'm a long time lurker of neogaf and other forums, but never really posted often. Noticed there was some controversy in some of the discords about people with conservative opinions or the alt-right.

I've never identified myself as alt-right. I was middle of the road and initially hoped Bernie would win the democratic nomination.

Thoughts?

Human · Oct 28, 2017

There's nothing wrong with holding conservative values. The alt-right, on the other hand, is basically white supremacy and misogyny. I don't think you'll find people here are okay with that.

Areyis · Oct 28, 2017

Human said:
There's nothing wrong with holding conservative values. The alt-right, on the other hand, is basically white supremacy.

I always thought the term "alt-right" was kind of an ambiguous term meant to describe the younger generations of conservatives. But I guess a lot of white supremacists have taken the label.

Seesaw15 · Oct 28, 2017

At this point it matters more if you still support Trump/plan to vote for him in the future.

Areyis · Oct 28, 2017

Seesaw15 said:
At this point it matters more if you still support Trump/plan to vote for him in the future.

I plan to vote for him if he succeeds in getting rid of Obamacare, succeeds in the Tax cuts, and builds the wall.

These are pretty essential. If he doesn't, I don't really see how I could vote for him.

jfkgoblue · Oct 28, 2017

Alt-right and conservatives are two vastly different ideologies.

Pai Pai Master · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I always thought the term "alt-right" was kind of an ambiguous term meant to describe the younger generations of conservatives. But I guess a lot of white supremacists have taken the label.

No, it was always the "kinder, softer" label that white supremacists and misogynists wanted to be referred to with. They are straight up Nazis.

I personally cannot feel comfortable around people who voted for Trump being who I am, but as said above I can understand what would lead a person to do it so long as they don't still support him and his administration.

sphagnum · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I always thought the term "alt-right" was kind of an ambiguous term meant to describe the younger generations of conservatives. But I guess a lot of white supremacists have taken the label.

They havent taken the label, they made it. Richard Spencer is attributed as the one who created the term. It is specifically a rebranding of white supremacy as an "alternative" to traditional conservatism.

Brinbe · Oct 28, 2017

If there are, I just wanna know why

If we're trying to be a less aggressive and more conciliatory forum with more discussion and less dog-piling, I think that's a fair question for any Trump supporter.

Wyndstryker · Oct 28, 2017

Nothing wrong with voting who you voted for as long as people aren't trying to shove their views down other people's throats. When people start arguing why they think voting for X person is bad and because you voted for him you're bad, you are really just yelling to the wall. Trying to get people to change their views in reality is hard enough, doing it online is absurd.

As long as people just accept the fact other people can have very wildly different views due to upbringing, culture, education, etc then proper discussion can take place.

Areyis · Oct 28, 2017

Pai Pai Master said:
I can understand what would lead a person to do it so long as they don't still support him and his administration.

I still find myself in agreement with Trumps policies. He hasn't done anything more scandalous recently than he has done before.

vexx987 · Oct 28, 2017

If this place really is all former GAF members, I suggest they keep it to themselves lol. The users there were ruthless to anyone with an opinion different than their hive mind.

Human · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I plan to vote for him if he succeeds in getting rid of Obamacare, succeeds in the Tax cuts, and builds the wall.

These are pretty essential. If he doesn't, I don't really see how I could vote for him.

If things continue as they are now, expect to be disappointed.

Brinbe · Oct 28, 2017

vexx987 said:
If this place really is all former GAF members, I suggest they keep it to themselves lol. The users there were ruthless to anyone with an opinion different than their hive mind.

This is an unfair and unhelpful comment. Leave that in the past, breh. Seriously, leave that hivemind garbage outta here.

Hecht · Oct 28, 2017

If you voted for Trump, that's fine.
If you voted for Hillary, that's fine.
If you went third-party, that's fine.
If you didn't vote, that's fine.

I know this topic has the potential to get heated, so I'll just preempt it with - keep it civil, have intellectually honest discussions, and don't be a troll.

xbhaskarx · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I was middle of the road and initially hoped Bernie would win the democratic nomination.

Areyis said:
I plan to vote for him if he succeeds in getting rid of Obamacare, succeeds in the Tax cuts, and builds the wall.

So you're a Bernie fan... who wants 30 million of the poorest and most vulnerable people in the US to lose health care while premiums go up by double digits, and for the richest 1% of Americans to get a $1.5 trillion tax cut from gutting medicare and medicaid?

Jom · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I plan to vote for him if he succeeds in getting rid of Obamacare, succeeds in the Tax cuts, and builds the wall.

These are pretty essential. If he doesn't, I don't really see how I could vote for him.

So you're not gonna vote for him then cause there's pretty much zero chance he builds that ~~wall~~. ~~Fence~~. Chalk line that says "please do not cross".

Typhon · Oct 28, 2017

vexx987 said:
If this place really is all former GAF members, I suggest they keep it to themselves lol. The users there were ruthless to anyone with an opinion different than their hive mind.

This is off to a great start. /s

Areyis · Oct 28, 2017

vexx987 said:
If this place really is all former GAF members, I suggest they keep it to themselves lol. The users there were ruthless to anyone with an opinion different than their hive mind.

I think people feel strongly about the subject and that's what makes for good discussion. It's okay to feel strongly, or even get heated about the subject in my opinion.

Brinbe said:
If there are, I just wanna know why

If we're trying to be a less aggressive and more conciliatory forum with more discussion and less dog-piling, I think that's a fair question for any Trump supporter.

I support lower taxes, I am against Obamacare, and I am in favor of building a wall.

I personally would have had more leniency for illegal immigrants than Trump would have though.

sphagnum · Oct 28, 2017

What attracted you to both Bernie and Trump? Theyre wildly divergent.

Areyis · Oct 28, 2017

Jom said:
So you're not gonna vote for him then cause there's pretty much zero chance he builds that wall.

Well, if he doesn't build the wall he will lose the re-election for sure. I wouldn't be so sure about him not building the wall.

The prototypes have been constructed and are currently being tortured tested.

http://abc7.com/politics/trump-border-wall-prototypes-to-be-tested-with-hammers-axes/2574321/

digitalrelic · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I plan to vote for him if he succeeds in getting rid of Obamacare, succeeds in the Tax cuts, and builds the wall.

These are pretty essential. If he doesn't, I don't really see how I could vote for him.

So now I have to ask...

1. What do you want to see as a replacement for Obamacare?
2. Which tax cuts are we talking about? It's inarguable that, right now, we're seeing tax cuts exponentially in favor of the 1% & fucking the middle class.
3. What's appealing about building the wall to you? Will you only be in favor if he "makes Mexico pay for it" as promised, or are you fine with taxpayers fronting the bill?
4. What could you possibly love about Trump's policies that overlap with Bernie's? I'm interested in this one because they're complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

arglebargle · Oct 28, 2017

Not to be argumentative but why are those issues important to you? Like,what is so bad about obamacare or great about a wall? Are you rich enough to know the tax plan will actually benefit you or are you ideologically in favor of tax curs? Sorry just don't get to ask these questions of most people I know.

Brinbe · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I think people feel strongly about the subject and that's what makes for good discussion. It's okay to feel strongly, or even get heated about the subject in my opinion.

I support lower taxes, I am against Obamacare, and I am in favor of building a wall.

I personally would have had more leniency for illegal immigrants than Trump would have though.

Fair enough. Thanks for responding. How do you feel about his performance so far then?

greenbird · Oct 28, 2017

I just don't get the Bernie to Trump thing. I've seen polls referenced where this was around 10% of the Bernie crowd (or maybe just the inverse where 90%~ of us went to Clinton), but I still don't really get how this was a thing (outside of people who just wouldn't vote for a woman).

jfkgoblue · Oct 28, 2017

sphagnum said:
What attracted you to both Bernie and Trump? Theyre wildly divergent.

They are both populists though so I can see it. Trump's a right wing populist and Bernie is a left wing populist. They are opposite sides of the same coin.

Pai Pai Master · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I support lower taxes, I am against Obamacare, and I am in favor of building a wall.

Can I ask what your alternative to ACA looks like?

Typhon · Oct 28, 2017

sphagnum said:
What attracted you to both Bernie and Trump? Theyre wildly divergent.

It's always about change, doesn't matter what form it comes in, as long as it's against the status quo.

As for the question, no, not a chance in hell. The guy is setting back international relations by decades. We'll be lucky if we have allies left by the time he's done. Hell, I give us 50/50 odds there's even a country left.

Seesaw15 · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I plan to vote for him if he succeeds in getting rid of Obamacare, succeeds in the Tax cuts, and builds the wall.

These are pretty essential. If he doesn't, I don't really see how I could vote for him.

Is this an all or nothing type deal? How feasible is it that the wall could be constructed by 2020?

Deleted member 33 · Oct 28, 2017

vexx987 said:
If this place really is all former GAF members, I suggest they keep it to themselves lol. The users there were ruthless to anyone with an opinion different than their hive mind.

Please keep discussion about that other forum out of this thread.

Thanks!

The Adder · Oct 28, 2017

Let me put it as follows:

1. If it don't come up, it don't come up.

2. If it does come up, don't expect anyone to hold their tongues.

Basically: You can keep it to yourself or not. That's your choice. No one is going to ban you for it. However, don't get hurt feelings just because folks are going to disagree with you. 'Cause folks are going to vehemently disagree with you..

Deleted member 2761 · Oct 28, 2017

xbhaskarx said:
So you're a Bernie fan... who wants 32 million of the poorest and most vulnerable people to lose health care while premiums go up by double digits, and for the richest 1% of Americans to get a $1.5 trillion tax cut from gutting medicare and medicaid?

Well, let's imagine that Trump wasn't an affront to common decency, putting aside throwing women, ethnic minorities, and religious minorities under the bus for just a bit...

What is also particularly conservative about building a questionably effective yet incredibly expensive border wall that will require liberal use (heh) of eminent domain? How does one actually square that circle?

Aztechnology · Oct 28, 2017

digitalrelic said:
So now I have to ask...

1. What do you want to see as a replacement for Obamacare?
2. Which tax cuts are we talking about? It's inarguable that, right now, we're seeing tax cuts exponentially in favor of the 1% & fucking the middle class.
3. What's appealing about building the wall to you? Will you only be in favor of he "makes Mexico pay for it" as promised, or are you fine with taxpayers fronting the bill?

These are the important questions.

And my personal answer to OP's question.

BR2049 · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I plan to vote for him if he succeeds in getting rid of Obamacare, succeeds in the Tax cuts, and builds the wall.

These are pretty essential. If he doesn't, I don't really see how I could vote for him.

You probably still will vote for him. In general, republican voters vote republican no matter what. So it doesn't really matter whether he accomplishes those things.

Human · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
Well, if he doesn't build the wall he will lose the re-election for sure. I wouldn't be so sure about him not building the wall.

The prototypes have been constructed and are currently being tortured tested.

http://abc7.com/politics/trump-border-wall-prototypes-to-be-tested-with-hammers-axes/2574321/

A prototype is far from the funding being included in a federal government budget.

Dernhelm · Oct 28, 2017

Can't say I'd ever agree with your decision on who you voted for OP, but if the turnout was actually higher across the country we'd have a far more vibrant and potentially politically fresher America.

rpmurphy · Oct 28, 2017

Nope, would never vote for such a character with low interest in the wellness of the fellow man.

I regard anyone who voted for him as either people with suspect moral values or those who sacrificed their last shred of moral decency for empty words.

BossAttack · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I plan to vote for him if he succeeds in getting rid of Obamacare, succeeds in the Tax cuts, and builds the wall.

These are pretty essential. If he doesn't, I don't really see how I could vote for him.

Jom · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
Well, if he doesn't build the wall he will lose the re-election for sure. I wouldn't be so sure about him not building the wall.

The prototypes have been constructed and are currently being tortured tested.

http://abc7.com/politics/trump-border-wall-prototypes-to-be-tested-with-hammers-axes/2574321/

Making a couple feet of prototype wall is not the same as covering the entire border to Mexico with it. And would you hold him to his claim that Mexico would pay for it?

Yerffej · Oct 28, 2017

I don't get how anyone can be for the wall. It's a preposterous idea only the boy king would dream up.

wandering · Oct 28, 2017

Nah, I'm not going to say that voting for Trump is fine. I'm not going to pretend to be magnanimous and moderate in an intellectually dishonest attempt to appear above political allegiances. As a minority I have enough shit to swallow in my day to day.

famousmortimer · Oct 28, 2017

greenbird said:
I just don't get the Bernie to Trump thing. I've seen polls referenced where this was around 10% of the Bernie crowd (or maybe just the inverse where 90%~ of us went to Clinton), but I still don't really get how this was a thing.

It's the anything but the status quo vote. I get it to a certain extent, in reeaaaaaalllllllyyyyy broad strokes. But, of course, once you get into the details it makes very little sense.

I'm really curious OP, why do you want the wall? Not a troll question, I swear. I get what the wall represents and I totally understand wanting stricter borders, less illegal immigration, etc. But what will a wall accomplish? That's where I get lost on this whole thing. You build a 50' wall, I have a 51' ladder to sell ya.

Areyis · Oct 28, 2017

sphagnum said:
What attracted you to both Bernie and Trump? Theyre wildly divergent.

Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders shared a commonality actually. They may be divergent to each other but they were also both divergent to their respective parties. People pointed out that Trump isn't really a Republican because he has liberal views on some things. Republicans used that in a negative way, but I found it to be a positive thing.

Bernie also had a sense of legitimacy. It's also QUITE fair to say that he was unfairly cheated out of the nomination by the superdelegates as well as a lot of shitty fraud that went on in states like Kentucky.

arglebargle said:
Not to be argumentative but why are those issues important to you? Like,what is so bad about obamacare or great about a wall? Are you rich enough to know the tax plan will actually benefit you or are you ideologically in favor of tax curs? Sorry just don't get to ask these questions of most people I know.

Obamacare has affected me personally because I have been forced to pay over $1000 a month for Obamacare, and I am a man in the lower middle-class who just got a new house and is trying to pay his mortgage. My business is just getting off the ground, and they were gonna raise the monthly payments even more. It just wasn't going to work for me.

Oligarchenemy · Oct 28, 2017

Man, I really can't have this conversation. You are actively voting against my rights as a human being.

Please, consider other people besides yourself.

Deleted member 4783 · Oct 28, 2017

Areyis said:
I plan to vote for him if he succeeds in getting rid of Obamacare, succeeds in the Tax cuts, and builds the wall.

These are pretty essential. If he doesn't, I don't really see how I could vote for him.

Ahhh, showing your true colors.

Latvian Hitman · Oct 28, 2017

Typhon said:
It's always about change, doesn't matter what form it comes in, as long as it's against the status quo.

Well- one thing you can definitely say about Trump is that he is the first "change" candidate in a very long time to actually deliver on that promise. Unfortunately, the change he's delivered would best be described as complete chaos.

MBeanie · Oct 28, 2017

OP, like others have said, ignoring all the inexcusable baggage thats attached to Trump, Bernie & Trump are ideollagical polar opposites. How do you reconcile that fact?

Lesath said:
Well, let's imagine that Trump wasn't an affront to common decency, putting aside throwing women, ethnic minorities, and religious minorities under the bus for just a bit...

What is also particularly conservative about building a questionably effective yet incredibly expensive border wall that will require liberal use (heh) of eminent domain? How does one actually square that circle?

Border control is heavily favoured amongst conservatives, a wall just seens like an extreme extension of that thought.

Hecht · Oct 28, 2017

wandering said:
Nah, I'm not going to say that voting for Trump is fine. I'm not going to pretend to be magnanimous and moderate in an intellectually dishonest attempt to appear above political allegiances. As a minority I have enough shit to swallow in my day to day.

I totally understand. My point wasn't my own opinion so much as if you are on any of the various parts of the political spectrum, as long as you're not being horrible in here, we don't need to intervene.

Prodigal Son · Oct 28, 2017

Hecht said:
If you voted for Trump, that's fine.
If you voted for Hillary, that's fine.
If you went third-party, that's fine.
If you didn't vote, that's fine.

I know this topic has the potential to get heated, so I'll just preempt it with - keep it civil, have intellectually honest discussions, and don't be a troll.

I LOVE THIS FORUM.

OT: No OP. I didn't. I disagree with his policy with everything but trade and am concerned by his behavior and demeanor

Areyis · Oct 28, 2017

digitalrelic said:
So now I have to ask...

1. What do you want to see as a replacement for Obamacare?

Can't say I'm an expert. I'm in favor of Universal Healthcare, I just didn't like the way Obamacare did things. It hurt me personally

digitalrelic said:
2. Which tax cuts are we talking about? It's inarguable that, right now, we're seeing tax cuts exponentially in favor of the 1% & fucking the middle class.

The current tax cut proposals would help me immensely because of the deductible changes.

Anyone here vote for Trump?

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