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AOC: "The Democratic Party is not a left party. The Democratic Party is a center, or a center-conservative party"
- Thread starter BADMAN
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On a scale of honest posting where our government depends on someone being the adult in the room even when the other side is being pants shittingly evil and we call it out the whole time how fair do you think this is?
The Dems aren't campaigning on doing this stuff.
Except maybe Lapinski.
He sucks.
No, it wasn't ban-worthy, and if you and I agree, it must be wrong.
Yoooo they nuked the poll
I'm gonna wake up to a SEE STAFF POST aren't I..
I don't mind having the dividing line (for now) being your parties position on austerity politics, climate and military interventionism. If the Dems sort that out I wouldn't mind calling them a centre-left.
I'm gonna wake up to a SEE STAFF POST aren't I..
I don't mind having the dividing line (for now) being your parties position on austerity politics, climate and military interventionism. If the Dems sort that out I wouldn't mind calling them a centre-left.
Zero UN recognized nation states. Keeping it pure, baby!
Edit: There is no such thing as a Marxist nation state by definition
No free healthcare, genocidal foreign policy, institutionally racist justice system/policing, racist drug policy still good, for profit prisons, horrific education system, a failure to provide people with basic necessities like shelter or even drinking water in areas like flint, unabashedly capitalist, no taxation or accountability for the most wealthy in the country, no reparations for historically exploited/persecuted communities, continuing the suffering of said groups through mechanisms like racist housing policy leading to lead poisoning in poor black families, little to no concern about the wealth divide, little concern about right wing security institutions like the FBI/CIA/NSA stripping citizens (especially minorities) of rights, demonisation/deconstructions of unions, a lacklustre approach to LBTQ issues, lol immigration... I feel like I could go on?
Doesn't sound all that left to me.
Doesn't sound all that left to me.
Not quite. The democratic party never became a labour-based party or a socialist party. It was a liberal party with elements of organised labour supporting it - just as AOC said. It had people who geniunely believed in the advancement of labor unions, like FDR. However it was also a party that had reactionary conservatives in it, especially in the south., like George Wallace And it was a party that had some centrist liberal business people in it, like (at the time) Ronald Reagan.
To give you an example - I'm a member of the Australian party. Under our party's rules, half of the delegates who get sent to our annual conference are trade union representatives. This makes is - structurally and ideologically - a labour based collectivist party, and to some extent it always will be.
That's extremely different to the democratic party, whose political traditions come more from social liberalism, where the focus is on the individual rather than the collective.
The democratic p[arty of 2020 has more in common with the early 1900s British liberal party than it does with Social democratic parties.
When is a good time then? Because whenever someone is critical of the Democratic party it seems like it's never a good time. Except when people are punching left of course. Seems like it's always a good time for that.
My point being that your country's response was probably to the right of the one Obama took, though I can't say for sure without knowing who.
Medicare for "those who want it" is not Medicare for All. "Some kind of health care for everyone" means "healthcare for everyone", which is Medicare For All. A large amount of the Democratic candidates do not support M4A. Supporting the continued mishandling of healthcare in the United States, whether it is directly working with the lobbyists of pharmaceutical companies or turning a blind eye to the outrageous monthly premiums that only help the investors of the health industry, is not Left-leaning.
Also, the fact that "Medicare for those who want it" was said by multiple candidates on-stage truly shows where principles lie. Somehow, at this point in time, there are people who believe that some people just... don't want healthcare? What? The absurdity of it is only backed up by the media who constantly worries and woes for the loss of jobs of insurance companies, yet couldn't give a fuck about the people who die from lack of healthcare every single day. The rest of the modern world laughs at the US often, but regarding healthcare, the US is absolutely a joke.
What makes you left is not unabashed support of socialism.
That just makes you a leftist.
Wells Fargo was literally making their employees forge signatures and the only people they went after was the employees that were pressured into it.
All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind.
I always thought of the democrats as a coalition rather than a party with a centralized platform. If you happened to be conservative, but the platform of the republicans was too extreme or was antagonistic towards you, you would find yourself voting democrat.
When you have a two party system, in theory, both parties should have as thin a platform as possible to be the most inclusive towards voters. In practice however, the Republican party has made a solid platform of exclusion and division, which has pushed anyone who doesn't align out of their sphere. But that doesn't mean they are now completely socialist, pro-choice, or even pro-lgbt/feminist/for human rights and equality. A lot of people suppressed by the Republican party indeed don't share a lot of the same values as the people of era or other leftist communities.
If we were a multiparty system like many in Europe, Everyone would get behind which ever party represents their values the most. But as a two party system you're just choosing the least worse option. Staunch capitalist who happens to be an immigrant on Trump's chopping block? Catholic pro-lifer who doesn't want to expel migrants or suppress religious minorities? Gun nut who is also a hardcore Marxist? Where else do you go if you don't have a party that supports you?Depending on which values are more important to you, you might either vote for the Republican's only true opposition or stay home and hope things don't get worse.
When you have a two party system, in theory, both parties should have as thin a platform as possible to be the most inclusive towards voters. In practice however, the Republican party has made a solid platform of exclusion and division, which has pushed anyone who doesn't align out of their sphere. But that doesn't mean they are now completely socialist, pro-choice, or even pro-lgbt/feminist/for human rights and equality. A lot of people suppressed by the Republican party indeed don't share a lot of the same values as the people of era or other leftist communities.
If we were a multiparty system like many in Europe, Everyone would get behind which ever party represents their values the most. But as a two party system you're just choosing the least worse option. Staunch capitalist who happens to be an immigrant on Trump's chopping block? Catholic pro-lifer who doesn't want to expel migrants or suppress religious minorities? Gun nut who is also a hardcore Marxist? Where else do you go if you don't have a party that supports you?Depending on which values are more important to you, you might either vote for the Republican's only true opposition or stay home and hope things don't get worse.
And banned the OP, apparently for making a poll. Too much truth for Era.
That was bad, but I think you might have quoted the wrong post.
This is a good joke post, and it's embarrassing that it caught a ban when more egregious shit gets cover all the time here.
Reminder that every single US senator with the exception of Bernie and motherfucking fake libertarian loser and real racist Rand Paul voted in favor of increasing Iran sanctions in 2017, in violation of the Iran deal
Democrats are not acting like the adult in the room. They just took a pinky promise from Mike Pence instead of including it in any legislation.
You have to live in a cave and get all your news from some hipster podcast's half soaked in urine transcript to possibly believe we are further right than when Obama took office
If they didn't do the funding bills 100s of thousands of people go without pay.
That is being the adult.
Well the ACA was based on pre-existing Republican healthcare models. But I think Obama's point is that the GOP has gone so far to the right, with Dems on the back foot for the better part of 50 years, that the conditions in the US for any sort of socialist or leftist platform in the party were virtually impossible.
Now we're seeing a lot of changes being brought on rapidly these past few years, but due to the way elections are inherently rigged towards rural racist white people, liberals have to carefully optimize increasing power while still moving the country's policies leftwards. The chances of an AOC-type getting elected WV are virtually nil, and the combined backlash from conservatives and turning off swing voters could make the state even more red than before.
For the time being, we need to demonstrate the validity of our positions and the practicality of our proposals. Making the current set of demsoc ideas more mainstream and explaining how they build on the past will likely be easier than saying to the current bulk of the party how everything you worked for is bad and your experience is unnecessary is a poor move if you want to get support for your plans.
In the American tradition of framing that's correct, but not everywhere else.
Outside North America, "liberalism" isn't considered "left wing". It's considered as a centrist ideology centered around individual freedoms and liberties.
Social democracy is a different beast to centrist liberalism. It believes in the collective over the individual. That's why you almost never get universal health care without a socialist party.
The Democrats are a divided party. The forum is reflecting that.
For people wondering, this is how that looks like.
Man if every poliera thread had jokes like these I'd post more often
Then create one with Bernie if you have nothing better to do than create division amongst Democrats.
You used the example of rightward shifts in other countries in spite of any internal objections. Saying as much to shield a US political Party that valued 'being the adult in the room' over not funding concentration camps. Why should the Centrist Dems get any excuses for enabling it?
She endorsed him back in October:
The majority of Democrats are corporatist centrists, a few right leaning conservative Democrats, and a small cohort of progressives.
Heh sure.. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case at all. My country mostly had right wing governments since its inception, with a meager three or so being center governments.
The socialism thread doesn't move fast enough for it lol
One day, we will be like CSPAM.
You don't really want that, do you? Seems like it'd be a disaster for the Democrats.
If Warren and our I'll have the way we won't be.
And again, this is false. Social progress and progressive moves makes us left.
My mom who insists she's as liberal as they get is fully on board the Buttigieg train and keeps insisting the only way to win the election is a moderate. We got into a fight over that and I stopped engaging with her on the topic.
You say that like divisions don't already exists with in the party
The progressives outnumber the blue dogs by a hefty margin.
I'd argue that it's literally never been easier for normal folks to enter the stock market and take advantage of any gains. Plus that's literally what a 401k is, rather than a pension which was in the hands of those running it (and getting scammed by subprime mortgage investing, etc.).
Also quite telling that not a single poster who agrees with AOC has posted a single link or fact disputing Autodidact post/evidence. It's all gut feelings based on the opposition party?
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