Aonuma says that many of the younger staff on BOTW2 are playing and inspired by RDR2

Aniki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,047
They're flashbacks which had no bearing to the events after Link's awakening. That's the issue. Zelda played no part when you actually played the game and was just a deus ex machina to keep Ganon in check even though he had won. Zelda seems to play a more prominent role in the sequel, but that's not guaranteed. We all saw the BotW E3 trailer which implied a story heavy game.
Yes that she wasn't present for most of the main game was a bummer but it doesn't change the fact that BotW has the best incarnation of her yet.
 
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Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,138
Eh, with Ocarina of Time and Spirit Tracks in the mix, it doesn't seem like a clear-cut consensus.
 
Jan 11, 2019
119
If it makes the world more lively, then cool.

BUT! The perfect headline for me would have been: "Aonuma says that many of the younger staff on BOTW2 are playing and inspired by Mini Ninjas"
 
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Fastidioso

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,473
Lol at everyone acting like this is a bad thing. Say what you want about the controls, RDR2 has the best open world of any game released this generation. I would love to see more systems like hunting added into botw2
I agree about the open world but the whole gameplay seems entrapped in a timeline loop with the past prequel.
 

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,153
"inspired by rdr2" doesn't mean "inspired by the bad aspects of rdr2", just saying.
the game still has senior nintendo staff overlooking everything and suggestions and new ideas can get shot down if they're against the gameplay first principles of nintendo.
 

Dust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,784
They probably mean how lively and organic the world was, rather than anything else.
Like villagers doing their own thing and something always happening.
 

Peru

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,050
Guys

There were stories about the staff of BOTW studying open world games

Of course they did. Nintendo went for that genre for the first time in a real way.

They studied those games and were inspired to do something completely their own. Something very different, a Nintendo take.

Same here. Maybe they're inspired by the storytelling, doesn't mean they'll take the tropes and paste them in their game. Neither does it mean BOTW2 will lose the unique openness, lack of rigidity, solve things your own way approach. That's core to BOTW even if the developers find something to like in RDR
 

Tim de Man

Member
Apr 9, 2019
43
Guys

There were stories about the staff of BOTW studying open world games

Of course they did. Nintendo went for that genre for the first time in a real way.

They studied those games and were inspired to do something completely their own. Something very different, a Nintendo take.

Same here. Maybe they're inspired by the storytelling, doesn't mean they'll take the tropes and paste them in their game. Neither does it mean BOTW2 will lose the unique openness, lack of rigidity, solve things your own way approach. That's core to BOTW even if the developers find something to like in RDR
Amen. I'm glad they didn't go back to being insular Nintendo but are keeping an open mind to what other devs are doing.
 

Cyclone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
The Cyclone State
I’d rather they not, unless they’re taking world building and story tips.

Looking at the new Assassin’s games might be better for gameplay and traversal.
 

decoyplatypus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,232
Brooklyn
I did not especially like RDR2, but I don't see BOTW2 staffers playing contemporary AAA open-world games as a cause for concern. They could end up recognizing and avoiding RDR2's weak points rather than copying them.

That said, what I'd really like to hear is that they've been studying games with good combat design and itemization and thinking about how to integrate them into an open-world structure (as the big AAA open-world games tend to be as bad or worse than BOTW in this regard). I would like some straightforward acknowledgments of the parts of BOTW that did not work.
 

AgonyRon

Member
Nov 27, 2017
187
Haters gonna hate. I really dont understand the hate for RDR2, while the game is an absolute milestone. Maybe it's not for you, but why the hate? I really dont like Smash Bros. But i can at least the quality of it.
 

Namorange

The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
2,515
Before BOTW they played Skyrim and? It turned out not to be a broken mess.
Nintendo knows what they are doing and what they have with BOTW.
Let them play RDR2, learn from it and don't repeat Rockstars mistakes
What mistakes? It was deliberately made with specific intentions and went on to be critically acclaimed and sell millions of copies.
 

Kumikomical

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,356
ITT: People somehow assume top-level Nintendo developers will blindly and uncritically copy every aspect of any game that they play
 

Flon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
330
United Kingdom
I always thought it was pretty clear that Breath of the Wild was inspired by Skyrim, Far Cry & Assassin's Creed. They didn't even need to tell me that for it to be clear.

This is a good thing. They are going to be studying the game, finding what elements they like and what they don't like, what elements they can build from or what they consider to be a detriment to learn from. They're going to build a unique game from it all, just like the original. Isolating yourself when making an open world game can easily lead to making mistakes.

But I guess that won't stop people from jumping the gun. I can assure you that the staff that are making the game aren't going to be taking a Red Dead Redemption 2 copy and etching their own logo on it. But unfortunately I can certainly assure myself that I'll be seeing 1000 more posts about 10 second animations and that people didn't actually have fun with Red Dead 2.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,061
BotW might not be as complex as the latest Rockstar games, but it has a sense of freedom that is just unparalleled, and above all it's FUN to play. It's a joy just to be in that world. That makes it a better game.
RDR2 is fun to play and has a way better world design than BOTW. It's an organic world filled with people.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,821
In terms of graphics only, yes. anything else, no.

mission design in RDR2 was outdated and sometimes stupid, and the open world wasn't half as fun to explore as Zelda BotW. even in terms of storytelling, it doesn't get close to a game like The Witcher 3.
Mission design was in service of the strong narrative driven nature of the game. The story is excellent with incredible character moments. The open world is extremely immersive with lots of fun activities.

BOTW's open world was a fun sandbox but never at any point did it feel lived in or truly alive, unlike RDR 2's. Its one area where BOTW can definitely take inspiration from RDR 2.
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,451
Said it before but you can always tell the people who really spent time exploring and engaging with RDR2s world and systems vs. the people who just focused on story missions and/or tried to approach it like a checklist game.
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,248
Aonuma and his team were inspired by Skyrim for BotW.

Doesn't mean it actually played like Skyrim.

Stop worrying, ya' dopes!
I do not think anyone expects similarities in gameplay, the base is already defined, people just love being dramatic.
RDR2 is fun to play and has a way better world design than BOTW. It's an organic world filled with people.
Agree about the best world design,it is not even close,but it is a chore most of the time.
BotW has the most fun open world I've ever experienced. Always something interesting on the horizon to go explore. Amazing world design.
Always a new korok seed in another rock or another goddamnit shine,it is incredible play with the enviromment,but the world itself for me atleast was a huge empty field filled with repetitives Koroks and shines.
 
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Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,836
London
I am hoping there’s more forced variation in BOTW2 as well. Whereas I didn’t find the tedium of repetition set in due to how much I could toy around with the mechanics, complaints such as the lack of enemy variation are extremely valid and should be addressed first and foremost in the next game as well.

All of which is to say, I want the follow up to address BOTW’s shortcomings and build on its many strengths. Not take from RDR2 D:
I agree with you to a certain extent. Nintendo EPD should address most, If not all, of the questionable shortcomings. But where I differ from you is that I believe they can do that whilst taking inspiration from other popular games in this genre.

If something is inspired by BotW, I’m sure it’s by the good stuff. Not the tiresome tedious repetitive elements.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,061
BotW has the most fun open world I've ever experienced. Always something interesting on the horizon to go explore. Amazing world design.
BOTW felt more like they scattered things all around the map, while RDR2 structured its game map in a cohesive way. It's great if you want to promote exploration, but it's not particularly impressive in a design perspective.
 

MillionIII

Member
Sep 11, 2018
2,437
Nintendo made a better open world game on their first attempt than Rockstar ever has.
First of all it wasn’t their “first attempt” because xenoblade chronicles x is a thing, and second it is debatable how much better one open world is than the other, but in terms of detail, weather simulation, wildlife and npcs I think that Rdr2 is a bit more advanced.
 

hussien-11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,514
Jordan
Haters gonna hate. I really dont understand the hate for RDR2, while the game is an absolute milestone. Maybe it's not for you, but why the hate? I really dont like Smash Bros. But i can at least the quality of it.
I don't hate it, in fact i like it a lot despite its flaws. it is one of the most ambitious games I've ever played and the main story was strong, especially in its second half. it is actually the first story i enjoy from Rockstar's mindless works (usually). this time it had a meaning, something to think about, and very strong character development. it is by far their best story and their most realized world.
what i dislike is how people worship it and any Rockstar product acting like they are above any criticism, overlooking major flaws that any other developer would be eaten alive for.

RDR2 is fun to play and has a way better world design than BOTW. It's an organic world filled with people.
No it doesn't, and its not even close. RDR2 is just an open area that tries to simulate real world geography, BotW is a multi-layered, horizontal and vertical, fantastic open world that is as well handcrafted as a linear game.

and RDR2 isn't that "organic". it is less dense than other games, though i don't agree with the obsession about density. everygame has its own ways to engage the player, it is not more engaging if there is a random npc walking every 2 minutes.

Mission design was in service of the strong narrative driven nature of the game. The story is excellent with incredible character moments. The open world is extremely immersive with lots of fun activities.
No, video games proved time and time again that you can have fantastic narrative without tying player's every move. and failing a mission because you wanted to gather some ammo or walked 5 meters to left instead of right has nothing to do with narrative. it is outdated mission design that other games surpassed long time ago.

a game like Cyberpunk 2077 will show how it is truly done, and i'm confident it will have better storytelling than any Rockstar game.

Open World is where the best developers in the world compete right now. there is no one that is better than every other developer in every area.

Rockstar are the most realistic.
Zelda team are the best in terms of gameplay/adventure and map design.
CDPR are the best in terms of narrative and storytelling.
Bethesda's games have more freedom/choice than any other.
 

Aniki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,047
BOTW felt more like they scattered things all around the map, while RDR2 structured its game map in a cohesive way. It's great if you want to promote exploration, but it's not particularly impressive in a design perspective.
It is impressive from a design standpoint. It's an open world but nothing about it felt random or without a purpose. The world felt as if it was desinged like a level, always guiding the players eyes to something new.

RDR2 and BotW tried to achieve different things with their open worlds and both achieved what they wanted.
 

Namorange

The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
2,515
People have no idea what an opinion is, lol.

There’s nothing to back up RDR2 is the best open-world or BotW or any game for that matter. Just because you prefer it, you can’t assert anything other than that preference.

People are taking this too seriously. It really doesn’t mean anything yet.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,836
London
Open World is where the best developers in the world compete right now. there is no one that is better than every other developer in every area.
No, that’s not true at all. For example, Naughty Dog hasn’t made an open world game since Jak 3.

Rockstar are the most realistic.
Zelda team are the best in terms of gameplay/adventure and map design.
CDPR are the best in terms of narrative and storytelling.
Bethesda's games have more freedom/choice than any other.
Rockstar’s RDR2 does all of these things better than any of the games you’ve mentioned except choice based narrative. My only issue is the damn input lag.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,061
It is impressive from a design standpoint. It's an open world but nothing about it felt random or without a purpose. The world felt as if it was desinged like a level, always guiding the players eyes to something new.

RDR2 and BotW tried to achieve different things with their open worlds and both achieved what they wanted.
BOTW suceeded precisly because it wasn't designed as a level though. You had an open ended approach to the open world, much like Skyrim, which allowed you to do what you want when you want to. The achievement was in bridging the gap between "side quest" and "main quest" while maximizing player agency regarding missions, story and gameplay.

Outside of the castle and the start of the game, you were not guided much.
 

Joeyro

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,218
This thread boils down to "I didn't like RDR2, so them being inspired by it means BotW2 will be like RDR2 now". I doubt they even have the resources to attempt a Rockstar open world.
 

Aniki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,047
BOTW suceeded precisly because it wasn't designed as a level though. You had an open ended approach to the open world, much like Skyrim, which allowed you to do what you want when you want to. The achievement was in bridging the gap between "side quest" and "main quest" while maximizing player agency regarding missions, story and gameplay.

Outside of the castle and the start of the game, you were not guided much.
Yes, but the open world was designed in a way to always point the player to a point of interest without relying on quest markers.
 

stan_marsh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,404
Canada
People have no idea what an opinion is, lol.

There’s nothing to back up RDR2 is the best open-world or BotW or any game for that matter. Just because you prefer it, you can’t assert anything other than that preference.

People are taking this too seriously. It really doesn’t mean anything yet.
The 97 metacritic backs it up. What are you talking about? It's not opinion it's fact

Just like LOTR, I don't like the movies but I can't deny they are great just not for me.

Some people have such a childish mindset. Start realizing something is good but not for you. Smh.