Aonuma says that many of the younger staff on BOTW2 are playing and inspired by RDR2

Peltz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,036
I trust them to take the best of what they liked and to discard the rest, just like they did with Skyrim. Nintendo knows what they're doing. Any cause for concern is premature.
 

Asbsand

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,221
Denmark
As far as open world design goes? Yep. That's part of what Zelda needed but inspiration doesn't equal execution.

As far as Zelda goes? Oh... no. :(

TO be fair though! Far Cry was the inspiration for BotW, and Skyrim.

As far as all those games go I much prefer Red Dead Redemption 2.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,453
The characters were good, yes. Music was stellar, but so was BotW's. NOthing to get inspired for here. Writing was meh,
BOTW had good character designs, not good characters. BOTW's characters were all insanely archetypical and paper thin. If the writing of RDR2 is supposed to be meh, then that makes the writing in BOTW disastrous by comparison. Like just these two words have more weight and depth behind them than literally any attempt at emotion in BOTW:



Like at the very least, BOTW's side-quest design could use major improvements beyond collectathon activities and the cast of characters, despite having fantastic designs, straight up sucked. Which is a shame because there have been Zelda games with good side quests.
 
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HabbyFresh

Member
Nov 6, 2017
27
I see no problems being inspired by other open-world games. It's not like they're going to adopt the clunky controls and gameplay of RDR2. But they'll likely be inspired by the production quality, storytelling, and detail of that world.
 

brad-t

Member
Nov 23, 2017
520
I trust them to take the best of what they liked and to discard the rest, just like they did with Skyrim. Nintendo knows what they're doing. Any cause for concern is premature.
Precisely this. Regardless of how you feel about RDR2 personally (I'm not a fan), it's not like they're just going to replicate what they see wholesale. Nintendo's skill at interpreting and applying design trends in their own unique ways feels sharper than ever, so this news is exciting to me. The last thing I want is for them to be working in ignorance of what's happening in the world around them.
 

sora87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,550
File this under "Era's dumbest and most embarrassing" threads.
It's also dumb and embarrassing that a lot of people can't accept that maybe, just maybe, there's people out there who honestly don't like RDR2.
They aren't being edgy, they aren't looking for drama, they just think RDR2 is a bad game.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,886
Yikes.

At least the gameplay cannot be as dire as RDR2. I'm not sure it's possible.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,453
It's also dumb and embarrassing that a lot of people can't accept that maybe, just maybe, there's people out there who honestly don't like RDR2.
They aren't being edgy, they aren't looking for drama, they just think RDR2 is a bad game.
It would be great if those people actually tried to refute the tons upon tons of genuinely valid reasons why RDR2 is a good game instead of just saying "it's bad."
 

Mushroomer25

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,950
It's also dumb and embarrassing that a lot of people can't accept that maybe, just maybe, there's people out there who honestly don't like RDR2.
They aren't being edgy, they aren't looking for drama, they just think RDR2 is a bad game.
Thinking RDR2 is a bad game is one thing.

Thinking that the developers of an amazing game will suddenly decide to make a bad game because they played a bad game - is silly.

It's blindingly obvious what elements BOTW could crib from RDR2, and yet tons of reactions in this thread boil down to "nothing in RDR2 is worth anything".
 

Parenegade

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,794
It's also dumb and embarrassing that a lot of people can't accept that maybe, just maybe, there's people out there who honestly don't like RDR2.
They aren't being edgy, they aren't looking for drama, they just think RDR2 is a bad game.
It would be even MORE dumb and embarrassing to assume that someone who called this thread dumb and embarrassing is doing so because they can't accept there are some people who don't like RDR2.

Rather than the painfully obvious reason. That some devs playing and being inspired by RDR2 isn't going to be a bad thing.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
6,389
There's always a world between the games they get inspired from and the end result.
Remember when they were inspired by MonHun for Skyward Sword?
or Skyrim for BotW?
Aonuma's team could crib from Sonic 06 and still manage to pull a fantastic GotY experience.
Never played RDR2 but even at its worst I don't see this ending badly.
They could crib the campfire idea and go from there (after all in the teaser you see Link and Zelda with a big beast to lug their shit around).
It could be anything but they're not gonna crib the worst part of RDR2 just because.
 

RoadHazard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,431
BOTW felt more like they scattered things all around the map, while RDR2 structured its game map in a cohesive way. It's great if you want to promote exploration, but it's not particularly impressive in a design perspective.
BotW IS a game about exploration, and it's absolutely brilliant at it. No, it's not as structured or "focused", but that was an intentional choice. It's a "go wherever and do whatever" game, you can even go straight to the final boss and beat the game after the tutorial area if you want to. Not everyone will like that extremely open-ended approach, but I think it's the best game ever made.
 

LuckyLinus

Member
Jun 1, 2018
1,065
Some more story/writing and dynamic npc’s wouldnt hurt BotW but Im mostly interested to see what they do with the dungeons. I Also wouldnt mind if they changed the weapon breaking system.

Whatever they do Im sure Itl be incredible.
 

RoadHazard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,431
First of all it wasn’t their “first attempt” because xenoblade chronicles x is a thing, and second it is debatable how much better one open world is than the other, but in terms of detail, weather simulation, wildlife and npcs I think that Rdr2 is a bit more advanced.
Of course it's more advanced. That doesn't automatically make it a better game.
 

CopperPuppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,973
File this under "Era's dumbest and most embarrassing" threads.
Sadly have to agree

I honestly wonder where my opinion diverged from this community on games when I go in threads praising something like Xenoblade 2 for its characters and story then step into another thread filled with vitriol for a game like RDR2, which may have the most believable characters and dialog from any game period.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,446
BOTW had good character designs, not good characters. BOTW's characters were all insanely archetypical and paper thin. If the writing of RDR2 is supposed to be meh, then that makes the writing in BOTW disastrous by comparison. Like just these two words have more weight and depth behind them than literally any attempt at emotion in BOTW:


Like at the very least, BOTW's side-quest design could use major improvements beyond collectathon activities and the cast of characters, despite having fantastic designs, straight up sucked. Which is a shame because there have been Zelda games with good side quests.
I never said anything to the contrary regarding characters. The amount of story in BotW alone doesn't even lend itself to any form of actually deep characterization, you don't spend enough time with any of them. I never called the writing of BotW good lol. I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I've been saying they need to go back to Majora-level NPCs since TP. The quest design in BotW also has a lot of room for improvement, but I wouldn't really look at RDR2 in that instance.
Youre precious all things zelda will be just fine , no need to be upset when other devs see quality and get inspired.
I just don't think there's much quality to be inspired by outside ridiculously beautiful visuals and production values that include stuff like voiceacting, scale and needlessly intricate animations that go on for too long. That's all. I'm not really upset, I just don't really like them getting inspired by what I think is, over all, a turd.
 

tenderbrew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,251
Not sure which parts they're taking but I hope they leave the legit awesome parts of BOTW alone, name: the physics, fantastic weapon system, and climb anything.

Don't want a dragged down cut scene fest narrative either.
 

Hampig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
720
I'm lost, why is this a bad thing? (I haven't played RDR2)
It's not, it could mean anything. RDR2 is a huge, beautiful game that arguably does a lot of things better (and worse) than any other game out there. Zelda will still be Zelda, but if they can pick up on some of what Red Dead does so right (mainly the living world and abundance of events you can run into) then it can only be good in my mind.
 

MELLO

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,897
I trust them to take the best of what they liked and to discard the rest, just like they did with Skyrim. Nintendo knows what they're doing. Any cause for concern is premature.
Was just about to say this. People in fear need to relax. They'll just take the good they learn and disregard the rest. Not like they bring slow and heavily animated actions to BOTW type game. The foundation is literally the opposite.
 

Edgar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,359
I never said anything to the contrary regarding characters. The amount of story in BotW alone doesn't even lend itself to any form of actually deep characterization, you don't spend enough time with any of them. I never called the writing of BotW good lol. I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I've been saying they need to go back to Majora-level NPCs since TP. The quest design in BotW also has a lot of room for improvement, but I wouldn't really look at RDR2 in that instance.

I just don't think there's much quality to be inspired by outside ridiculously beautiful visuals and production values that include stuff like voiceacting, scale and needlessly intricate animations that go on for too long. That's all. I'm not really upset, I just don't really like them getting inspired by what I think is, over all, a turd.
Well , see. Game developers 9 times out of ten see what normal consumers like you, dont . Thats all there is to it
 

impact

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,312
Tampa
Some more story/writing and dynamic npc’s wouldnt hurt BotW but Im mostly interested to see what they do with the dungeons. I Also wouldnt mind if they changed the weapon breaking system.

Whatever they do Im sure Itl be incredible.
Maybe they could use the weapon degrading from RDR2. Your weapons will get weaker the more they're used, and you need to find specific items to get the durability back up.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,446
Well , see. Game developers 9 times out of ten see what normal consumers like you, dont . Thats all there is to it
And that's ok? They see it, i don't. I didn't like the game, that's all. It's not like I can do anything about it, can I.
Yep. Some people in this topic look silly. Fanboys are the worst.

Dudes cant even see why the devs of BotW would be inspired by RDR2 lmao.
Or maybe some people just don't like a game. Doesn't have to do with being fanboys.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,111
Or maybe some people just don't like a game. Doesn't have to do with being fanboys.
If you like a game so much it blinds your ability to see why developers of BotW might like RDR2 then that's a problem. Nobody should be so blinded by something that they can't see it's positives even if they dislike it.

That goes back to what I said about people being fanboys. I can dislike things too but you don't see me saying "damn I dislike something so much I can't see why people might like something from it."
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,446
If you like a game so much it blinds your ability to see why developers of BotW might like RDR2 then that's a problem. Nobody should be so blinded by something that they can't see it's positives even if they dislike it.

That goes back to what I said about people being fanboys. I can dislike things too but you don't see me saying "damn I dislike something so much I can't see why people might like something from it."
But it has not really anything to do with me liking BotW so much. I can name you plenty, plenty of flaws and areas for improvements that game has.
I just don't think RDR2 is anything to look for to improve said areas. It has clunky gameplay with boring combat and shitty mission design. Most of it's positive aspects are related to it's mindblowingly large budget. That includes stuff like voice acting. If that's the inspiration Aonuma is talking about, ok. But we know that's not the case. The biggest inspiration they could take from that game is throwing a shitton more money at Zelda and put more people on the project.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,453
I never said anything to the contrary regarding characters. The amount of story in BotW alone doesn't even lend itself to any form of actually deep characterization, you don't spend enough time with any of them.
BOTW has more than an hr and a half of cinematics. Older Zelda games have done more with less. It was more than just a writing issue, it was a structure issue.
I never called the writing of BotW good lol. I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I've been saying they need to go back to Majora-level NPCs since TP. The quest design in BotW also has a lot of room for improvement, but I wouldn't really look at RDR2 in that instance.
I mean when it comes to narrative design they could. The context of what we were doing made relatively simple tasks interesting.
 
Oct 26, 2017
339
lol at the RDR2 hate people in here.
I hold breath of the wild as the best Zelda game ever, and to hear that the BotW team are inspired by RDR2 shows class! RDR2 has the best open world feeling to date along with BotW. its not like they are going to change much to the open world due to that.

That being said, cant wait for BotW 2, it looks sooooooo amazing.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,446
BOTW has more than an hr and a half of cinematics. Older Zelda games have done more with less. It was more than just a writing issue, it was a structure issue.
Oh for sure. But again, RDR wouldn't be the structure I would chose to get inspired from. But I'm obviously not them so...

I mean when it comes to narrative design they could. The context of what we were doing made relatively simple tasks interesting.
They could also just look at the Witcher 3 for that. A game with not just ok but actually stellar writing. A game that actually elevates it's gameplay context in a far better way than RDR2 does, imo.
 

Bansai

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,305
BOTW had good character designs, not good characters. BOTW's characters were all insanely archetypical and paper thin. If the writing of RDR2 is supposed to be meh, then that makes the writing in BOTW disastrous by comparison. Like just these two words have more weight and depth behind them than literally any attempt at emotion in BOTW:



Like at the very least, BOTW's side-quest design could use major improvements beyond collectathon activities and the cast of characters, despite having fantastic designs, straight up sucked. Which is a shame because there have been Zelda games with good side quests.
Quoted for truth.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,111
But it has not really anything to do with me liking BotW so much. I can name you plenty, plenty of flaws and areas for improvements that game has.
I just don't think RDR2 is anything to look for to improve said areas. It has clunky gameplay with boring combat and shitty mission design. Most of it's positive aspects are related to it's mindblowingly large budget. That includes stuff like voice acting. If that's the inspiration Aonuma is talking about, ok. But we know that's not the case.
It really sounds like your opinion of RDR2 is blocking why others might think it's a great game given you're placing all of it's strengths on it's budget. You don't see it because you're blinded by your dislike of RDR2/love of BotW but the reality is those devs see something and the same as others who love both games. I for example, I can easily see a BotW sequel having better care between Link and his horses which RDR2 gives us. I can easily see BotW2 having a deeper more complex and gripping story which is something RDR2 has. I can see BotW2 having more complex and complete characters which the original didn't have. I can see more side-missions that have a good narrative focus rather than most side missions having the same ol "ok go here and explore and figure it out what happened" feel that BotW has. I can see a lot coming from RDR2 that can make BotW better. I didn't even get into voice acting.

The problem is you're acting like budget is the only thing that made it special when no, it's how creative you get with it's budget.

A lot of the RDR2 hate mixed with other's love of BotW in this thread looks silly because we shouldn't have to make paragraphs breaking down why people might get inspired by RDR2. If people didn't see that when the game released then hey that says something about where their mindset is. The only difference is that the devs of their favorite game sees what they didn't see so now they're wondering how.
 

Papaya

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,841
California
Not sure what they can take from RDR2 that is simultaneously good, doesnt requires a bloated budget, and can work within the BotW framework. I trust these guys as they clearly have a pulse on this stuff better than anyone in the industry. BotW is still unmatched IMO. Anything they take from it will be great for the series, I'm sure.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,446
It really sounds like your opinion of RDR2 is blocking why others might think it's a great game given you're placing all of it's strengths on it's budget. You don't see it because you're blinded by your dislike of RDR2/love of BotW but the reality is those devs see something and the same as others who love both games. I for example, I can easily see a BotW sequel having better care between Link and his horses which RDR2 gives us. I can easily see BotW2 having a deeper more complex and gripping story which is something RDR2 has. I can see BotW2 having more complex and complete characters which the original didn't have. I can see more side-missions that have a good narrative focus rather than most side missions having the same ol "ok go here and explore and figure it out what happened" feel that BotW has. I can see a lot coming from RDR2 that can make BotW better. I didn't even get into voice acting.

The problem is you're acting like budget is the only thing that made it special when no, it's how creative you get with it's budget.

A lot of the RDR2 hate mixed with other's love of BotW in this thread looks silly because we shouldn't have to make paragraphs breaking down why people might get inspired by RDR2. If people didn't see that when the game released then hey that says something about where their mindset is. The only difference is that the devs of their favorite game sees what they didn't see so now they're wondering how.
People were already not happy about the horse controls getting better the more the horse likes you in BotW. Or didn't even know it was a mechanic and complained about their two star, untrained horse having bad controls lol. Or were suprised you could feed them apples. More complex and complete characters are somehting they can easily find in other games. Witcher 3, the Last of Us, and so on. If they want Zelda and Link to be on some sort of journey together, Last if Us would be the first game I look to. If I want side missions with more narrative focus, I'd look at Witcher 3, not RDR2. And if they lose their "environmental clues to the destination" approach of BotW, which is superior to both W3 and RDR2 from a gameplay point of view, they can miss me with that.

I'm not blinded by anything, thank you.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,111
People were already not happy about the horse controls getting better the more the horse likes you in BotW. Or didn't even know it was a mechanic and complained about their two star, untrained horse having bad controls lol. Or were suprised you could feed them apples. More complex and complete characters are somehting they can easily find in other games. Witcher 3, the Last of Us, and so on. If they want Zelda and Link to be on some sort of journey together, Last if Us would be the first game I look to. If I want side missions with more narrative focus, I'd look at Witcher 3, not RDR2. And if they lose their "environmental clues to the destination" approach of BotW, which is superior to both W3 and RDR2 from a gameplay point of view, they can miss me with that.

I'm not blinded by anything, thank you.
Look at what I've underlined, yeah you are blinded bruh.

Your opinion of RDR2/BotW has caused you to straight up say "well if they want that they can go here" rather than saying "well if they want that then anything that gives them that works regardless of what games does it." You're shoving RDR2 to the side because of your opinion rather than embracing whatever game gives them any type of inspiration being used to empower a great game. The interview's stated that they were inspired so whatever inspires them is a plus regardless of the medium that does it because in their eyes they can see how they can improve the formula. You're basically saying "hey why do you date that girl? Go with this one because she gives you the same things because I know, I dated her in the past" right now.

This goes back to what I said prior. Dudes are really saying "well don't fuck what they see in this game go to this other game" because they don't like it.