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Apex Legends developers spark outrage after calling gamers “dicks”, “ass-hats”and “freeloaders”
- Thread starter lush
- Start date
How to tell when a random employee speaks vs when the CEO -- who is a grown ass man and understands fuckin responsibilites, unlike a good portion of Era as evidenced by this thread -- speaks.
I think we have a lot more teenagers and people lacking life experience/perspective here than I thought. I think Donald Trump's daily tweets for the last couple of years have rotted people's brains when it comes to standards, leadership, and professional conduct.
You cannot be unprofessional when representing a company, bottom line. They may have had justification to feel like they had to defend themselves against toxicity online, but not like this. It's not like the toxicity in this case was of the social justice variety. People were mad about pricing and monetization. That is a topic that as a developer, you can choose to ignore. But alas, they didn't.
For what it's worth, I found their pricing and loot system to be silly and overpriced.
For what it's worth, I found their pricing and loot system to be silly and overpriced.
Think about it like this: if someone said that black men are criminals, should innocent black men be offended? I mean, according to your logic, they aren't criminals so why should they be offended? Hell, we could even extend your reasoning to government surveillance. Who cares if your privacy is being invaded if you haven't done anything wrong?
Just because you personally agree with something offensive doesn't make it any less offensive to people who don't.
it is not worth $18. I can buy full games for less than that.
And I can buy multiple games for $1. Pricing is relative. So saying you can buy a full game for $18 doesn't mean anything.
As a customer and a functioning adult, you are within your right to decide what is worth for you. Whether that is a game, an in game item, or anything else.
I don't get this argument. At the end of the day we are talking about video games here. My point is that something that was considered a freebie in a game ten years ago is now valued at $18. I understand the business decisions behind moving away from something being free to paid particularly as this is a f2p game. However, it is still a game and will still be compared to its peers whether they are f2p or not. Is Apex/EA alone in this? Hell no. There are lots of overpriced addons in games. My issue is that EA/Respawn pushed the envelope of what was considered acceptable (knowingly), backtracked to look like the good guy and now we end up where EA/Respawn wanted to be in the first place in being able to charge nearly a third the price of a full release. This is my opinion but I just looks shady.
Of course and I do. I very rarely purchase these style of addons. I dropped off of Apex when the first Battlepass came out because I felt that it was lackluster. I do not have an issue with the Battlepass model because it rewards companies for outputting content. if done well there can be quite a few Battlepass seasons per year resulting in more income than a traditional retail release in the long run. I just cannot get over $18 for a skin. I have the self control to not buy it but I know lots of people don't.
Yeah, and 10 years ago this game wouldn't be free, you'd have to pay $60 upfront to play it. Things change, some good for you the consumer, some not so good. Given that the vast vast majority of people won't pay a dime to play this game I don't think their monetisation strategy is so crazy or shady. What's "acceptable" is subjective based on who you are and your relationship with your money, that's my issue with these arguments. Video games are a luxury good, this isn't water or food or electricity, the pricing of this has no material effect on anyone's life. Therefore, positioning this as some immoral or unfair decision makes no sense to me.
Complain about how this is too expensive for you, that's fine, I think that's a good thing to do. However, when you start saying stuff like "what of the people who don't have self-control and will just buy it", that has nothing to do with you. You have no idea what relationship with their money the people who buy this have, you're just projecting your own idea of what is expensive and so unacceptable unto other people.
Your thoughts on the professional research done on the subject?
Video game loot boxes are linked to problem gambling: Results of a large-scale survey
Loot boxes are items in video games that can be paid for with real-world money and contain randomised contents. In recent years, loot boxes have become increasingly common. There is concern in the research community that similarities between loot boxes and gambling may lead to increases in...
journals.plos.org
Should we all be like you and just say, "fuck it, let those people drown"? Is clear and present exploitation all good so long as it doesn't affect you and you benefit from those who are being preyed upon? Do you think the industry is not aware of these issues? Do you feel predatory tactics are acceptable?
Ultimately, one as to decide if you are you your brother's keeper or if defense against shady tactics is only ever a concern exclusively when it impacts us personally and the effort to say something about it is not inconvenient. To understand you're part of a community or to be so self-centered as to not have any care or empathy for anyone but yourself. The research is already out there and has been done by professionals and doctors in appropriate fields. Only thing left is to decide on what side you want to fall on: the corporate apologists or those who see what's happening and see a need for real regulation.
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Your thoughts on the professional research done on the subject?
Video game loot boxes are linked to problem gambling: Results of a large-scale survey
Loot boxes are items in video games that can be paid for with real-world money and contain randomised contents. In recent years, loot boxes have become increasingly common. There is concern in the research community that similarities between loot boxes and gambling may lead to increases in...
Should we all be like you and just say, "fuck it, let those people drown"? Is clear and present exploitation all good so long as it doesn't affect you and you benefit from those who are being preyed upon? Do you think the industry is not aware of these issues? Do you feel predatory tactics are acceptable?
Ultimately, one as to decide if you are you your brother's keeper or if defense against shady tactics is only ever a concern exclusively when it impacts us personally and the effort to say something about it is not inconvenient. To understand you're part of a community or to be so self-centered as to not have any care or empathy for anyone but yourself. The research is already out there and has been done by professionals and doctors in appropriate fields. Only thing left is to decide on what side you want to fall on: the corporate apologists or those who see what's happening and see a need for real regulation.
Was I talking about loot boxes or talking about skins being sold for $18?
I'm not agreeing with something offensive. I'm saying I'm not a part of the discussion so why would I even find it offensive. I'm white. I'm male. I'm a gamer. But I'm still going to criticize men. White folk and gamers in general terms. It dilutes the entire argument if you start with the #notallmen style garbage imo. The only gamers offended by people saying "gamers are trash" are the trash gamers. Most normal level headed gamer folk understand that that sentiment isn't aimed at them. But they also understand that it is a dumpster fire community.
I don't think I am. I am a firm believer that these things are priced this way for psychological reasons as much as anything. Premium price masquerades as premium quality which can make people feel as though they need to have it. Respawn came out and admitted that pricing it lower has no impact which means that they are banking on what people like to refer to as "Whales" to buy it. I don't think there is $18 in value here and i believe many would agree. These prices are selected not because they make sense for the consumer but because a large company thinks that is what is can feasibly get away with. Whilst we are here debating toxicity/unprofessional-ism (both valid problems) the large publishers are thinking of their next get rich quick scheme. I don't see how a game like Apex can launch with the consumer friendly approach in the early days only to roll it back a few months later.
And that's okay. Just don't become toxic about it (not saying you specifically are).
Yeah the key issue here is to be critical if you feel there is something to be critical about, but that by no means gives you a right to attack or harass anyone. Make your points respectfully and foster a productive discourse
The most worrying aspect of both this thread and the Ooblets EGS thread is that a lot of people seem to use the fact there are some toxic people as a shield to block any other legitimate criticism, as if anyone raising issues with the EGS or predatory MXT models is endorsing the harassment or even more absurdly, blaming developers for this abuse
There are legitimate concerns with both the EGS and some MXT models, and those concerns do not vanish because some people were assholes on the internet and decided to harass developers
Obviously harassing developers (or anyone, for anything) is always wrong, but that doesn't mean other issues suddenly disappear or are no longer worth discussing
Digital items that are simply cosmetic do not have the worth that Respawn asked for.
But how many really are?
There are tons who call them out but now voices of legitimacy are silenced due to the vulgarity of some.
Enough can't be said about the predatory nature of these games. I'm not going to clap for a dialed back response when they do not have clean hands.
Their hands are covered in filth from their predatory practices.
Man, the amount of people trying to justify $18 skins because "lol prices for different things are different" is absolutely mental.
I bought an Overwatch skin for $15. Of course, it's a little different cause the money went to charity. However, if people are willing to pay for it, what's the problem?
People are willing to put themselves through abusive relationships all the time. No reason to normalize abusive relationships.
Have you ever spoken to a child about these skins? The only reason they are buying them is because if you are a "default" it means you are considered to be a fucking loser. People are begging their parents to dip into these $18 skins so that they can get over their FOMO and not get bullied. Devs are just taking advantage of that.
Plus, even if the above weren't the case, maybe don't rip people off? Just because someone is willing to pay for something doesn't mean you should rip them off.
I think it's up to the consumer to decide the value of something.
I mean, just looking at the comments shared in the OP, and reading the CEO's response, I think Respawn is in the right. I don't and really don't want to play Apex, but if they want to charge an amount for a thing, that's their decision to make. People complaining about it in pretty toxic ways should take a step back and think if their desire to be able to use a skin (or whatever) for less than $18 is worth smearing their own reputation online. Whether they care about that is an entirely different question.
I was going to say something along those lines, but instead I'll just quote you.
I'm not justifying $18 skins. That's certainly more than I'm willing to pay, personally.
If Respawn has set the price too high for a product, then sales of that product will certainly reflect that. The only influence that any of us have on that market is the decision to buy, or not to buy, that product.
These things aren't comparable for a whole host of reasons. Therefore your comparison doesn't work.
I agree about directly priced items thought hey really need pricing tiers and better skins in general to justify their asking prices. Lootboxes, less so.
Good for Zampella on being the adult here. I loved TF 2 campaign and i expect to see this kind of magic on their SW game.
I can understand the anger and disappointment (and i can tolerate some angry bursts) but this kind of reaction does not help anyone.
It does not help consumers because their legitimate criticism is buried beneath tons of angry, harassing posts and it does not help developers because it doesn't solve even a tiny bit of the problem, it adds fuel to the fire.
You have to be better than the people that do not know how to complain properly not sink down to their level. I am very disappointed by the approval this behaviour got here.
I can understand the anger and disappointment (and i can tolerate some angry bursts) but this kind of reaction does not help anyone.
It does not help consumers because their legitimate criticism is buried beneath tons of angry, harassing posts and it does not help developers because it doesn't solve even a tiny bit of the problem, it adds fuel to the fire.
You have to be better than the people that do not know how to complain properly not sink down to their level. I am very disappointed by the approval this behaviour got here.
Maybe the workers take pride in their work and the company they work for?
The reality is...If you don't like the SKIN don't buy it. You have the price that you are willing to pay for something, stick to it.
They are literally cosmetic items, the argument is said over and over again.
Thats reductive. There's a additive quality to these things and just plain "gamers are responsible for their own behavior" is just plain predatory.
And let's not forget that these players aren't all adults (not that preying on less stable adults is any better).
The issue with the items at 18 bucks is that it preys on the fact that it's nearly three times the cost of a loot box which leads to people just trying in 3 boxes instead. The issue here is sunk cost fallacy if they dont get it, "Lets go 3 boxes I got this... well 6?.... 9? DAMN FINALLY GOT IT... well might as well finish the event." It's 100% predatory. The people getting mad are getting mad about this, the corporate defending in here is freaking pathetic .
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How is selling a skin for $18 different from selling a pair of shoes for $250? Or do you see all of these as being predatory? Where is the line where things become predatory for you?
The funny thing is I honestly don't care that they criticized the guy for being toxic and called the guy a dick/asshat or whatever. They were behaving badly and deserve some blast for that.
But, if anything, I am offended a little by the "freeloader" comment from the dev which has a clear tone of disdain behind it. Guess what guys- you released a Free to Play game! People are going to play it. For free. THAT is an ass-hat comment from the dev.
And those $18 skins do suck. And this applies for Fortnite and other FTP games too- I truly believe they would get more sales and more game engagement if they offered the content at lower prices. But they have their metrics that tell them to pursue the 1% of money-is-no-object whales that are playing, streamers, etc. who will spend $1000 on this shit like it is nothing, rather than just allowing a lot more people to put down a couple bucks for some skins they like.
But, if anything, I am offended a little by the "freeloader" comment from the dev which has a clear tone of disdain behind it. Guess what guys- you released a Free to Play game! People are going to play it. For free. THAT is an ass-hat comment from the dev.
And those $18 skins do suck. And this applies for Fortnite and other FTP games too- I truly believe they would get more sales and more game engagement if they offered the content at lower prices. But they have their metrics that tell them to pursue the 1% of money-is-no-object whales that are playing, streamers, etc. who will spend $1000 on this shit like it is nothing, rather than just allowing a lot more people to put down a couple bucks for some skins they like.
I feel like Respawn knew what they are doing
Now everyone from outside thinks the "outrage" was about $18 skins (it wasn't)
Now everyone thinks the Apex community is extremely toxic (it's not)
No polite and good questions were answered, only the toxic ones, so 0.1% of that thread
Nothing will change, Respawn are victims in this situation, players are toxic assholes who want everything for free, be excited for the next event and prepare to grind 2 free lootboxes out of 24 total.
Now everyone from outside thinks the "outrage" was about $18 skins (it wasn't)
Now everyone thinks the Apex community is extremely toxic (it's not)
No polite and good questions were answered, only the toxic ones, so 0.1% of that thread
Nothing will change, Respawn are victims in this situation, players are toxic assholes who want everything for free, be excited for the next event and prepare to grind 2 free lootboxes out of 24 total.
They have the worth if people pay for them. If it's profitable for them at this price then it's the price the market supports.
People paying $800 for a cosmetic in games like DOTA 2 would beg to differ.
That's the same as every other aesthetic product, unless people think Jordans provide any benefit beyond not being a default loser. The devs are also not causing nor contributing to bullying, which is a separate (far more important, frankly) social issue that is not dependent on Overwatch skins to function or survive.
Maybe don't project your own valuing of items and products onto others. I am sure you own stupid shit that I would accuse you of being ripped off by that you don't see that way.
Probably not because I don't buy anything outside of games, consoles and TVs (which I get on deals/cheap).
You've never eaten out at a restaurant? Because compared to substitute goods you probably got ripped off more than a $15 Overwatch skin, and while those kids can run around in their fancy skin until the servers shut down your $30 is coming out your butthole in 12 hours.
those are marketable, trade-able, resell-able items that appreciated over time due to rarity and character popularity.
vs skins that are bound to your account forever. Dota/CSGo/Team Fortress 2/Path of Exile and a few other game's items are really the only ones that have value because you can cash out when you want. People spending $800 for an item could flip it for the same amount or more in a week. Can't say the same of games like Apex, League, or Overwatch. Hence their value proposition is always going to be worse comparatively. Unless you're going to sell your entire EA/Riot/Blizzard account, I suppose.
lol c'mon bruh
