Apex Legends New Timed Event Takes Monetization To A Whole New Level

MechaBreaker

Member
Jun 26, 2018
1,792
To anyone who's argument is that people shouldn't complain because the game is "free"... here's a hint: Nothing is ever free, someone else is just paying your share and then some, sometimes putting themselves into debt, because of the addictive nature of lootboxes.
 

VaanXSnake

Member
Jul 18, 2018
803
EA executives are the worst but saying those kind of stuff are harmless and ok is as bad, defending this shit is terrible, fuck you EA.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,512
Oh god all this for skins, I will never get why people care so much about skins. I have like 100 loot boxes unopened in ow, trying to make it to 200.
 

Josecitox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
373
Argentina
Just imagine what could happen if a dev gets rid of loot boxes due a regulation of some kind, but they're not required to offer a free alternative to buy certain or all items so basically it's up to them to create that option. If they create exclusive items that can only be bought with $$$ people would stil bitch about it.

Because they feel entitled to get everything or have a clear mental health problem with completionism and that sort of thing.
 

benzopil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,861
Just imagine what could happen if a dev gets rid of loot boxes due a regulation of some kind, but they're not required to offer a free alternative to buy certain or all items so basically it's up to them to create that option. If they create exclusive items that can only be bought with $$$ people would stil bitch about it.

Because they feel entitled to get everything or have a clear mental health problem with completionism and that sort of thing.
Nobody's bitching about paid Fortnite skins
 

Josecitox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
373
Argentina
I like these events. Kinda funny to see people online and think "wow this guy paid a lot of money to flex this hard in a videogame". Back when skins were earned you would look cool. All these paid skins will make you look like an idiot imo.
Same as the guy who has 100 platinums or an absurd gamerscore when someone can literally cheat that, same as people who get 100% in a game, something anyone can basically do regardless of skill level, etc.
Nothing that you get in a game matters, it's all about what you do and the ways to preserve that to proof that brag. Completionism died the day we were able to save moments.
 

Josecitox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
373
Argentina
I feel EA pushed Respawn to be more aggressive with the monetization due other games not generating the expected revenue and given Apex popularity and overall good health on that regard it was the perfect opportunity to start experimenting with that using a temporary event like this one.
 

ty_hot

Member
Dec 14, 2017
3,083
Fuck, and I was really looking forward to giving Solo Mode a try too
Top 10 players are just a bunch of campers hiding in the bushes with a shotgun... Played quite a lot yday but spent most of the time on ranked because it is just the superior mode. I like Apex because of the teams and character abilities, playing solo isn't nearly as fun.
 

Hugare

Member
Aug 31, 2018
458
I mean the game is free and there’s nothing in the lootboxes that give the player a gameplay advantage so it doesn’t really bother me.
This

Gameplay advantages are unacceptable.
But if they want to charge money for skins (in a free game, nonetheless) they can charge $100 for all I care, the laugh is on the people who buy it.

The people who buy it are the ones to blame, because voting with our wallets is very important in capitalism. They keep getting away with it because they know they can charge $70 for 10 lootboxes.
 

Josecitox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
373
Argentina
This

Gameplay advantages are unacceptable.
But if they want to charge money for skins (in a free game, nonetheless) they can charge $100 for all I care, the laugh is on the people who buy it.

The people who buy it are the ones to blame, because voting with our wallets is very important in capitalism. They keep getting away with it because they know they can charge $70 for 10 lootboxes.
Exactly. Just a single person buying it proves to them that there's potentially another one that might.
 

Coxy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,129
I mean the game is free and there’s nothing in the lootboxes that give the player a gameplay advantage so it doesn’t really bother me.
That's one way of looking at it.

Another way is feeling sorry for the people who have issues and get sucked into spending a fortune on stuff like that. It's wrong mate.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,957
Miami, FL
I think people who say "Who cares" about cosmetic MTX mean to say "Doesn't affect me so I don't care at all and can't be bothered to or just can't empathize with those who are affected"

You wont bring them around.
No doubt. It’s just such a lazy, embryonic, self-centered take. Not only is it devoid of any wisdom, it also offers nothing to the discourse while simultaneously revealing the commentators lack of basic education on the subject.

When researchers and doctors at Cornell are linked in the thread with their research saying there’s a problem with loot box mechanics, maybe that uneducated hot take that “nothing is wrong” that the next poster finds so important to share actually isn’t so hot and maybe isn’t worth sharing after all.
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,312
Brazil
Doesn't seem any worse than what we see in games like DotA 2 or gacha games. Aside from the random factor, it seems to have a limit on how much you can spend, which is good.
 

oni-link

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,515
UK
This

Gameplay advantages are unacceptable.
But if they want to charge money for skins (in a free game, nonetheless) they can charge $100 for all I care, the laugh is on the people who buy it.

The people who buy it are the ones to blame, because voting with our wallets is very important in capitalism. They keep getting away with it because they know they can charge $70 for 10 lootboxes.
Voting with your wallet doesn't work because not all votes are equal

95% of people "voting" by not buying this tat, lose the vote to the 5% of people who can't control themselves because they're hooked on the gambling mechanics and are feeding $100s a month into the game

There is no reason not to just sell these items up front, even if they were $20 a pop, that's still a waste of money, but if people want 1 or 2 skins and they want to pay that for them, go for it

The issue is you need to spend more than you'd pay for a new game for a chance to win the one or two items you want, and the gambling type mechanics they use, plus things like sunk cost fallacy, cause people to spend more than they would

Most of the people who end up being suckerd into this cycle are not high flying CEOs or the well off. It's more likely to be children, vulnerable people, and people with addictive personalities etc

The same kind of people who get addicted to real world gambling, funnily enough

If that's not something you care about, then that just comes across to me as you either don't fully understand the situation, or you lack empathy

Game balance is important as well, but it's not more important than ripping people off in order to profit from people who like your game

Why don't they just sell the items up front? Because they know they make more money from selling you a random chance to get an item. Why sell you the skin you want for $20 when you can get someone to spend $100 for that skin? It's scummy as hell, and by design. The fact you can't even earn the lootboxes for free by playing the game in this situation is an order of magnitude more scummy

People are entitled to not care about it if it doesn't personally impact them, but that's a pretty shitty attitude to have in my opinion
 

spineduke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,956
Voting with your wallet doesn't work because not all votes are equal

95% of people "voting" by not buying this tat, lose the vote to the 5% of people who can't control themselves because they're hooked on the gambling mechanics and are feeding $100s a month into the game

There is no reason not to just sell these items up front, even if they were $20 a pop, that's still a waste of money, but if people want 1 or 2 skins and they want to pay that for them, go for it

The issue is you need to spend more than you'd pay for a new game for a chance to win the one or two items you want, and the gambling type mechanics they use, plus things like sunk cost fallacy, cause people to spend more than they would

Most of the people who end up being suckerd into this cycle are not high flying CEOs or the well off. It's more likely to be children, vulnerable people, and people with addictive personalities etc

The same kind of people who get addicted to real world gambling, funnily enough

If that's not something you care about, then that just comes across to me as you either don't fully understand the situation, or you lack empathy

Game balance is important as well, but it's not more important than ripping people off in order to profit from people who like your game

Why don't they just sell the items up front? Because they know they make more money from selling you a random chance to get an item. Why sell you the skin you want for $20 when you can get someone to spend $100 for that skin? It's scummy as hell, and by design. The fact you can't even earn the lootboxes for free by playing the game in this situation is an order of magnitude more scummy

People are entitled to not care about it if it doesn't personally impact them, but that's a pretty shitty attitude to have in my opinion
well said
 

Hugare

Member
Aug 31, 2018
458
Voting with your wallet doesn't work because not all votes are equal

95% of people "voting" by not buying this tat, lose the vote to the 5% of people who can't control themselves because they're hooked on the gambling mechanics and are feeding $100s a month into the game

There is no reason not to just sell these items up front, even if they were $20 a pop, that's still a waste of money, but if people want 1 or 2 skins and they want to pay that for them, go for it

The issue is you need to spend more than you'd pay for a new game for a chance to win the one or two items you want, and the gambling type mechanics they use, plus things like sunk cost fallacy, cause people to spend more than they would

Most of the people who end up being suckerd into this cycle are not high flying CEOs or the well off. It's more likely to be children, vulnerable people, and people with addictive personalities etc

The same kind of people who get addicted to real world gambling, funnily enough

If that's not something you care about, then that just comes across to me as you either don't fully understand the situation, or you lack empathy

Game balance is important as well, but it's not more important than ripping people off in order to profit from people who like your game

Why don't they just sell the items up front? Because they know they make more money from selling you a random chance to get an item. Why sell you the skin you want for $20 when you can get someone to spend $100 for that skin? It's scummy as hell, and by design. The fact you can't even earn the lootboxes for free by playing the game in this situation is an order of magnitude more scummy

People are entitled to not care about it if it doesn't personally impact them, but that's a pretty shitty attitude to have in my opinion
I get you, and it's not like I lack empathy, really.
But if we start caring so much about people's tendency to be addicted, we should stop selling alcohool, cigarrets, foods with sugar and the list goes on.
We have so much shit in society that we gotta have self control to manage, or to have someone to manage us. This right here is no different.
For some people, openning a lootbox is mindless, harmless fun. To some, it may be dangerous. If you have kids, you have to be careful (with kids you have to be careful with everything online, really).

I dont know, sometimes most people here see everything under a microscope
 

hippopotamus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,703
The game is a technical mess right now as well. Constant disconnection errors and problems joining games. It's a fantastic time to delete Apex Legends from my hard drive.
 

diablogg

Member
Oct 31, 2017
649
I get you, and it's not like I lack empathy, really.
But if we start caring so much about people's tendency to be addicted, we should stop selling alcohool, cigarrets, foods with sugar and the list goes on.
We have so much shit in society that we gotta have self control to manage, or to have someone to manage us. This right here is no different.
For some people, openning a lootbox is mindless, harmless fun. To some, it may be dangerous. If you have kids, you have to be careful (with kids you have to be careful with everything online, really).

I dont know, sometimes most people here see everything under a microscope
All the things you mentioned are at least looked at, scrutinized and approved by government agencies.
 

Onikage

Member
Feb 21, 2018
229
I love the game, it is free and it has a lot of players (because it is free).

CoD Blackout was expensive and because of that I could never find players on south american servers.
F2P is the way to go for battle royale games, and Apex is excellent.

New heroes are basically free and super easy to unlock.
Cosmetics are just a fraction of the experience.
Even if you don't buy anything you are always stealing weapons from dead enemies and experiencing those new skins anyway.

I am ok with them charging high for cosmetics. 98% of the experience is already free and amazing.
With the ranking system this became the new overwatch for me.
 

oni-link

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,515
UK
I get you, and it's not like I lack empathy, really.
But if we start caring so much about people's tendency to be addicted, we should stop selling alcohool, cigarrets, foods with sugar and the list goes on.
We have so much shit in society that we gotta have self control to manage, or to have someone to manage us. This right here is no different.
For some people, openning a lootbox is mindless, harmless fun. To some, it may be dangerous. If you have kids, you have to be careful (with kids you have to be careful with everything online, really).

I dont know, sometimes most people here see everything under a microscope
All those things you listed are regulated, lootoxes are not

People can smoke and drink, but not everywhere or at all times, and not if they’re children

That doesn’t mean there are no issues around those substances, but there are measures in place to try and reduce the negative impact to people/society
 

Onikage

Member
Feb 21, 2018
229
All those things you listed are regulated, lootoxes are not

People can smoke and drink, but not everywhere or at all times, and not if they’re children

That doesn’t mean there are no issues around those substances, but there are measures in place to try and reduce the negative impact to people/society
I'm not trying to be ironic or anything.

But children shouldn't even have money or credit card to buy lootboxes.
Their parents should never give them access to it. It is a family matter, not a government one IMO.
 

InRainbows

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,292
I really don't care about cosmetics so no issues for me. Also no one should be mad as long as these items do not affect the gameplay or progress at all.
Again this is exactly the type of post I’m talking about.

The drive by “it doesn’t affect me” post.

It’s been discussed to death how loot boxes are predatory by design. Ea and respawn along with a gigantic group of devs/pubs are building games that are predatory in nature towards gambling addicts and children.

It’s that simple. You should care because it affects people. It might not hurt you in any way but it is a problem for a ton of people who have impulse control issues and gambling issues.

And when the economy becomes even more predatory.....REMEMBER!!!! They are targeting people who may have already payed 200$ or more to them at this point.
 

diablogg

Member
Oct 31, 2017
649
I'm not trying to be ironic or anything.

But children shouldn't even have money or credit card to buy lootboxes.
Their parents should never give them access to it. It is a family's matter, not a government one IMO.
I agree that kids shouldn't have access to a credit card, but with lootboxes it's easy to get around that. "Ma can I get a $20 PSN for my game?" I'm sure lots of parents wouldn't bat an eye to that request but it can get you the same thing. Also just kids even being exposed to that kind of shit can't be good for a developing brain and there's a severe lack of parental knowledge about the insidious gambling mechanics inserted into these games.

It's also ironic to me that you acknowledge the addictive nature of the lootbox, list examples of things that are also addictive and regulated by the government, but then say lootboxes shouldn't be regulated by the government.
 

Socivol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,549
The pricing is a bit much and loot boxes need to go. If the pricing were better and you could buy the items you want I wouldn't think this is as big of a deal being a FTP game and all. The pricing of the items is just so astronomically outrageous that I see why people are pissed.
 

Onikage

Member
Feb 21, 2018
229
Again this is exactly the type of post I’m talking about.

The drive by “it doesn’t affect me” post.

It’s been discussed to death how loot boxes are predatory by design. Ea and respawn along with a gigantic group of devs/pubs are building games that are predatory in nature towards gambling addicts and children.

It’s that simple. You should care because it affects people. It might not hurt you in any way but it is a problem for a ton of people who have impulse control issues and gambling issues.
legitimate question:

Should we ban card games like Magic the Gathering, Yugi-oh or Pokemon? (And also Hearthstone).
And isn't diablo and almost every "grindy" game an introduction to gambling?
 

InRainbows

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,292
legitimate question:

Should we ban card games like Magic the Gathering, Yugi-oh or Pokemon? (And also Hearthstone).
And isn't diablo and almost every "grindy" game an introduction to gambling?

I dunno what sets off people down that road so I’m not qualified to answer that.

But I can without a doubt point at a game like this that is 100% predatory by design and call it out for what it is.
 

Onikage

Member
Feb 21, 2018
229
I agree that kids shouldn't have access to a credit card, but with lootboxes it's easy to get around that. "Ma can I get a $20 PSN for my game?" I'm sure lots of parents wouldn't bat an eye to that request but it can get you the same thing. Also just kids even being exposed to that kind of shit can't be good for a developing brain and there's a severe lack of parental knowledge about the insidious gambling mechanics inserted into these games.

It's also ironic to me that you acknowledge the addictive nature of the lootbox, list examples of things that are also addictive and regulated by the government, but then say lootboxes shouldn't be regulated by the government.
I didn't say that, it was your previous replier lol

Now, in regards to "Ma can I get a $20 PSN for my game?" I do not agree.
If the kid wants to become a gambler, he will need to ask for many $20 PSN cards, not just one.
And if he can always get it, it is the same thing as giving that credit card to your kid. Family matter.
Actually, the parents should always buy the products, and not just give the money.
 

MechaBreaker

Member
Jun 26, 2018
1,792
legitimate question:

Should we ban card games like Magic the Gathering, Yugi-oh or Pokemon? (And also Hearthstone).
And isn't diablo and almost every "grindy" game an introduction to gambling?
I would say yes, regulate any industry that use the "a pull per payment style random chance at rewards".
You don't pay for chance to get good loot in diablo.

edit: Notice I said regulate, not ban, if this shit needs to be sold it needs to have trustworthy oversight and only be available to appropriate audiences.
 
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diablogg

Member
Oct 31, 2017
649
I didn't say that, it was your previous replier lol

Now, in regards to "Ma can I get a $20 PSN for my game?" I do not agree.
If the kid wants to become a gambler, he will need to ask for many $20 PSN cards, not just one.
And if he can get it all the time it is the same thing as giving that credit card to your kid. Family matter.
Actually, the parents should always buy the products, and not just give the money.
Shit sry I confused you with him =P
 

Onikage

Member
Feb 21, 2018
229
I would say yes, regulate any industry that use the "a pull per payment style random chance at rewards".
You don't pay for chance to get good loot in diablo.
About Diablo and grindy games, what I meant is that it could be an introduction to gambling.
You don't pay with money but you certainly pay with your time, always grinding after that new random item and getting the rush when opening that new lootbox or killing that elite pack. You are basically spending your labor for random stuff and enjoying it.
 

diablogg

Member
Oct 31, 2017
649
About Diablo and grindy games, what I meant is that it could be an introduction to gambling.
You don't pay with money but you certainly pay with your time, always grinding after that new random item and getting the rush when opening that new lootbox or killing that elite pack.
I mean the argument you're making, is addictive game design for the purpose of fun / engagement, is it the same as addiction for the purpose of extracting money and could it lead to the same gambling issue. I'm not sure as it's really hard to tell, but clearly one is obviously more predatory and damaging in the here and now than the other.
 

MechaBreaker

Member
Jun 26, 2018
1,792
About Diablo and grindy games, what I meant is that it could be an introduction to gambling.
You don't pay with money but you certainly pay with your time, always grinding after that new random item and getting the rush when opening that new lootbox or killing that elite pack. You are basically spending your labor for random stuff and enjoying it.
Putting in time for a randomized reward isn't gambling, but you're right in that it is also addictive, it is another type of skinner box (which is what lootboxes also are).

This is why gaming addiction is a thing. It can be bad, but it's certainly a whole lot less destructive than a gambling addiction. (unless, of course, you put gambling in games)
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,953
Chicago
There will be some very vocal complaints, but there's no question Apex Legends' player count will spike during this event. I'll be interested to see if EA listens to feedback for this event or if they'll just do it again.

Anecdotally: I played ranked for about four hours last night, and I didn't see a single Iron Crown skin in my party.