Apex Legends New Timed Event Takes Monetization To A Whole New Level

Prismatico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,484
Don't conflate present irrelevance with acceptability on the subject of past or current MTX implementations.
It was a facetious comment towards the back and forth "who's worse than the other!?"

His statement was hyperbolic and inaccurate considering how big one was compared to the other...not just here, but everywhere. Nothing compares to what was easily the most discussed thing in gaming since this site's inception. With Battlefront II things carried well into 2018, essentially until the progression revamp, hence my nitpicking to begin with.

Both games continue to receive significant updates, so I also wouldn't personally call either irrelevant yet.

Sure, with Battlefront II they cut off the "pay to win" aspect with the cards, yet we were left with outrageous prices for cosmetics. And Odyssey had Ubisoft deleting XP farms not that long ago, for obvious reasons.

Point being, the battle shouldn't end so quickly, yet it does practically every time.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,269
Gentrified Brooklyn
I'm gonna be honest: I've had friends like these folks. Sometimes people literally don't give a single fuck about anyone else or how a system might be negatively affecting them so long as they can play uninterrupted and for free or otherwise enjoy themselves in whatever they're doing. Their MO is purely self-serving and self-centered. You can't really tell them anything or help them empathize; they don't have that function in their brains. Trying to do so is not dissimilar to talking to a tree stump.

I think it'd be easier if they simply said, "sorry I don't care about other people or these issues; I get to play for free so w/e." At least then people would understand there's no real value in engaging them further.
its bizarre tho. This is a videogame enthusiast forum, so by the very nature of their interaction it should be more than ‘meh.’

Like gimmie ‘how do you think these f2p devs get paid?’ Gimmie the ‘i dont think its gambling’ which I disagree, but at least its an argument.

Its like they come in with a ‘Fuck you, I got mine’ and that’s it. You can’t even get a good counter argument in, since its just a narcissist telling the world they dont care, lol.

Anyway, back on topic, what makes this egregious is you’ve got a business that has an audience that would pay for these skins a good amount of dollars. While they keep shit like this secret, id love to find out the rate of return between locking these skins behind expensive lootboxes requiring multiple purchases vs letting people buy em straight cash.

I can’t imagine the whale willing to gamble $70 bucks in lootboxes outweighs lets say 7 kids willing to throw in $10 bucks for the skin and be one and done..by making it only for the hardcore gamblers you gotta be leaving cash on the shelf
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,807
Miami, FL
its bizarre tho. This is a videogame enthusiast forum, so by the very nature of their interaction it should be more than ‘meh.’

Like gimmie ‘how do you think these f2p devs get paid?’ Gimmie the ‘i dont think its gambling’ which I disagree, but at least its an argument.

Its like they come in with a ‘Fuck you, I got mine’ and that’s it. You can’t even get a good counter argument in, since its just a narcissist telling the world they dont care, lol.

Anyway, back on topic, what makes this egregious is you’ve got a business that has an audience that would pay for these skins a good amount of dollars. While they keep shit like this secret, id love to find out the rate of return between locking these skins behind expensive lootboxes requiring multiple purchases vs letting people buy em straight cash.

I can’t imagine the whale willing to gamble $70 bucks in lootboxes outweighs lets say 7 kids willing to throw in $10 bucks for the skin and be one and done
I'm certainly very curious about their internal analytics and if their data is supporting these seemingly ridiculous prices for what in most cases is uninspired loot with constantly reused and boring effects and designs.

I'd like to meet the people spending $20 on spotlight skins in this game because stuff generally looks pretty...well ugly, to be quite frank. Just seems like they could come down in price significantly or sell items individually and still make a ton of money. Some of the biggest games in the world (League of Legends, for example) is completely free of loot boxes. You want a cosmetic, you can buy it. Why is it so hard to do that and not do these scummy loot boxes?
 

Kyuur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,596
This sounds like very lootbox system ever made. If there were dupes it's be bad alongside the only 2 free rolls thing I guess.
 

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,404
LA
EA gonna EA.

Don't give money to EA. I play the game for free when ever I can, but I'm not buying anything from EA.
 

InRainbows

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,267
I really don’t understand at this point why people defend this.

You STOP getting loot boxes in this game fairly early on. Making people buy loot boxes or pay 18 dollars for a skin targets gamblers and exploits children.

You are rewarded with crafting points (not crafting material) that can only be used to create legendary alternative skins on legendary skins you already have or have to pay 18 dollars to obtain. All crafting material for normal items are in loot boxes.

It’s made in a way that exploits gamblers. Let’s just cut the shit and stop saying it’s ok to target gambling addiction. It’s that simple.

This drive by “it’s ok” attitude is fucking sickening. I’m sorry it really is. We as a community here are always standing up for progressive values. Where is the protection for people with gambling issues? Why don’t people give a fuck about these companies targeting them?
 
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Disgraced

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,263
No
It’s made in a way that exploits gamblers. Let’s just cut the shit and stop saying it’s ok to target gambling addiction. It’s that simple.

This drive by “it’s ok” attitude is fucking sickening. I’m sorry it really is.
I'm sorry. I've personally suffered significantly because of a family member with a gambling problem. As such I typically abhor loot boxes and aggressive monetization—in part because I abhor seeing that essence in my hobby and in an art form that I love.

However, if a game is F2P... I am so much more tolerant of it. I'm somewhat acceptant of or "ok" with it even.

Granted, I don't play F2P games very often (and I only played Apex around launch), but when I do and that shit is there it bothers me far, far less than it would otherwise. You get what you pay for and if you pay nothing you are the main product. 🤷‍♀️

Those prices are outrageous, but unfortunately they aren't terribly unusual either. I'm not saying anyone should stop using their voice to bitch about this. I'm trying my best not to say "vote with your wallet" because I hate when people say that. But you should stop playing Apex. Stop playing games that do this shit. Play better games. Play games that aren't trying to bleed your bank.

There's so many good fucking games out there.
 
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Border

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,244
It's sad to see the total lack of empathy members of this forum display towards those who are being preyed upon with these gross monetization tactics. Really shows a lack of compassion for your fellow human being because I LIEK GAEM DUN CRITICIZE GAEM ITS ONLY COSMETIC!!!11
I think empathy is difficult because many people have never really had a completionist OCD impulse. Few people have ever been so enamored with a cosmetic item that they would throw away dozens or hundreds of dollars in pursuit of it. I can understand the allure of true money-for-money gambling because I’ve done it and sometimes found myself caught up in it. But at the same time, the idea of paying to roll the dice on worthless skins is pretty strange and foreign to me. Gambling for money makes sense....gambling for useless trinkets does not.

If you don’t want to spend a ludicrous amount of money to own all the skins, well great. Then don’t spend the money. I think the trend towards completionism is bad, and if ludicrous prices on DLC or loot boxes help people break that obsession then all the better.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,177
I watched my SO playing and flipping around in the store, and I was doing some quick math.

I don't know if I have any goodwill left for Apex, and that's saying something considering how much time I've put into it. This feels slimy like a casino or a lottery ticket. It's "fine" as a product, but in the same way as a casino or lottery ticket. I wouldn't let my kids play it, for example. The gameplay has its own value, but this pricing style/model for what's clearly intended as the carrot for any long-term gameplay makes me resent this team's work.

I do think my boredom with having played even a heavily modified version of the same map for so long doesn't help, and that's partly why "it's just cosmetics" doesn't matter as much for how I'm looking at it, because this is all featured as central to the new content progression.
 
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MechaBreaker

Member
Jun 26, 2018
1,754
How far they’ve fallen, considering how their stance on lootboxes was with Titanfall 2.

It’s shameful, but I guess the money is just too good.

Regulate lootboxes as gambling.
 

Tmespe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
259
Seriously? It's okay to exploit people with gambling issues because the game is free? What kind of logic is that? I don't want my time in a F2P game being funded by this kind of scummy practice. But since the store is so clearly only targeting whales, I can't support it by buying anything either. Developers need to do better.
 

the_kaotek1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
434
Wow the lack of empathy some posters show in this thread is astounding, albeit unsurprising. They should really watch Jim's video on this exact issue, though they probably won't because ignorance is bliss.


I love Apex, but this is just shitty.
 
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Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,314
I thought people here hated loot boxes and were rallying with the increasing movement against them, now it's ok because 'free to play and cosmetics?'

People really want to defend Apex, huh.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,372
Remember that before this, they were hyping up the "Iron Crown Collection Event" for the past week. What many were probably expecting was a collection grind that you could spend real money to make easier. Making it entirely about spending money (and quite an unreasonable amount of it) just pissed off everyone. This "event" has no gameplay value.

You either spend $0 or $150. Anything less than $150 makes you gamble for the thing you want. This doesn't even work as a whale hunter because there's a spend cap.
 

boy power

Member
Jul 29, 2019
46
So, since I'm completely ignorant, lecture me:

How is a F2P game like Apex supposed to keep itself afloat, give good wages to it's developers, keep good quality updates and fixes coming frequently AND grow as a game and a company, and not just stagnate, if not with scummy lootboxes? Is there any proof that the game could earn as much, if not more money with direct purchases?

I'm not pro-lootbox, and I definitely think direct purchases are convenient for the player, but is it really realistic to expect such a thing from a free-to-play game? Maybe there is something less scummy that would be beneficial for the game, it's developers as well as the players, but I'm not so sure what it is.
 

spineduke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,937
Is there any proof that the game could earn as much, if not more money with direct purchases?
Lootboxes are designed to generate maximum profit. There's no way they'll make more with direct purchases - that said you have other games that minimize (Rainbow Siege has no paid lootboxes) or eliminate completely (Fortnite, and Rocket League soon)

It's still viable, but to people chasing growth targets they won't think any other way.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,653
Surprise!


So, since I'm completely ignorant, lecture me:

How is a F2P game like Apex supposed to keep itself afloat, give good wages to it's developers, keep good quality updates and fixes coming frequently AND grow as a game and a company, and not just stagnate, if not with scummy lootboxes? Is there any proof that the game could earn as much, if not more money with direct purchases?

I'm not pro-lootbox, and I definitely think direct purchases are convenient for the player, but is it really realistic to expect such a thing from a free-to-play game? Maybe there is something less scummy that would be beneficial for the game, it's developers as well as the players, but I'm not so sure what it is.
Look at MOBA games. League of Legend and Dota. Both have lootboxes and direct purchases available.
 

nib95

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,577
So, since I'm completely ignorant, lecture me:

How is a F2P game like Apex supposed to keep itself afloat, give good wages to it's developers, keep good quality updates and fixes coming frequently AND grow as a game and a company, and not just stagnate, if not with scummy lootboxes? Is there any proof that the game could earn as much, if not more money with direct purchases?

I'm not pro-lootbox, and I definitely think direct purchases are convenient for the player, but is it really realistic to expect such a thing from a free-to-play game? Maybe there is something less scummy that would be beneficial for the game, it's developers as well as the players, but I'm not so sure what it is.
There's other F2P games that are already far less scummy with their microtransactions than Respawn has been with Apex Legends, so what's Respawns excuse exactly? And to add to that, there's no evidence to suggest a different take would or wouldn't be more profitable, but the point is they haven't even so much as tried.

I personally feel they would make as much money if the prices were more reasonable or there were more specific item bundles, since what they might lose in higher pricing they'd potentially make up for with greater volume. Ultimately the onus is on the studio to try and retain their player bases goodwill and refrain from being exploitative, whilst still finding a way to make a profit, which they undoubtedly would still do were they to opt for a more player and consumer friendly microtransactions set up.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,262
NYC
I don't mind things being behind loot crates, even not purchasable that's fine i guess, not ideal, but the fucking price on cosmetics in this game and loot boxes are fucking insane. I would have supported it in its first month hard but I never bought a single thing because the prices are so stupid only people with a shit ton of expendable money or problems would pay for them with any kind of frequency of at all.
 

Bufbaf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,339
Hamburg, Germany
Bububut cosmetics only, those don't affect the game and are totally unimportant for users in a game where the main incentive is to get cosmetics for wins oh wait

Uninstalling this, I'm done with this crap.
 
Oct 27, 2017
995
I’m with you guys when it comes to gameplay altering stuff, but cosmetics? Nah, you lost me. Crunch ain’t free, they gotta pay for this game somehow. They probably don’t have enough content to go the direct purchase route.

There also seems to be some conflicting info in this thread. Is there or isn’t there dupes? Some saying there are and some saying no.
 

Tmespe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
259
So, since I'm completely ignorant, lecture me:

How is a F2P game like Apex supposed to keep itself afloat, give good wages to it's developers, keep good quality updates and fixes coming frequently AND grow as a game and a company, and not just stagnate, if not with scummy lootboxes? Is there any proof that the game could earn as much, if not more money with direct purchases?

I'm not pro-lootbox, and I definitely think direct purchases are convenient for the player, but is it really realistic to expect such a thing from a free-to-play game? Maybe there is something less scummy that would be beneficial for the game, it's developers as well as the players, but I'm not so sure what it is.
We don't have the data, so it's impossible to tell. My assumption is in many cases lootboxes are not that much more profitable, but they require little effort to implement, and catering to whales who will buy anything is easier than catering to the majority who might require.more incentives to buy content.

For this specific event it's not only about loot boxes, but also about that they increased the price of them by 700% for this time limited event. If you're interested in one skin you might have to buy 150$ of lootboxes if you're unlucky. On top of that, they have an item that you can only get after buying all other items. You might think you would get this for free, but no, you have to fucking pay an additional 35$. It's not made for the majority of the playerbase, it's made to exploit whales. It's frankly disgusting.
 

Joeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,396
So, since I'm completely ignorant, lecture me:

How is a F2P game like Apex supposed to keep itself afloat, give good wages to it's developers, keep good quality updates and fixes coming frequently AND grow as a game and a company, and not just stagnate, if not with scummy lootboxes? Is there any proof that the game could earn as much, if not more money with direct purchases?

I'm not pro-lootbox, and I definitely think direct purchases are convenient for the player, but is it really realistic to expect such a thing from a free-to-play game? Maybe there is something less scummy that would be beneficial for the game, it's developers as well as the players, but I'm not so sure what it is.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/230410/Warframe/ and you can just buy what you want. Game is constantly being updated and chock-full of content. People love it. Only F2P game I've put money into besides Dota battlepasses because I have 100 hours in the game and want to just have more space for character classes without dumping old ones, and I feel totally fine with it because the developers garnered a lot of goodwill with the community.

Apex launched with that goodwill (because Respawn), but it's steadily declined. So did my playing of the game over time. The solo thing made me want to reinstall it and play some more and maybe toss them a few dollars, but not like this. They could have had their dozen or so items just available for individual purchase, and while $7 USD still seems pretty fucking hefty for a skin I wouldn't have minded it because, as I said, goodwill. But no, they went with the much more cynical, exploitative option that could leave me spending upwards of $200 CAD to eventually get the one item I actually wanted. So now they get nothing, and I'm not even going to bother reinstalling and playing the damn mode because it turns me off and I don't want to have the items teased.
 

boy power

Member
Jul 29, 2019
46
There's other F2P games that are already far less scummy with their microtransactions than Respawn has been with Apex Legends, so what's Respawns excuse exactly? And to add to that, there's no evidence to suggest a different take would or wouldn't be more profitable, but the point is they haven't even so much as tried.

I personally feel they would make as much money if the prices were more reasonable or there were more specific item bundles, since what they might lose in higher pricing they'd potentially make up for with greater volume. Ultimately the onus is on the studio to try and retain their player bases goodwill and refrain from being exploitative, whilst still finding a way to make a profit, which they undoubtedly would still do were they to opt for a more player and consumer friendly microtransactions set up.
Are there any F2P games that have similar PC requirements to Apex Legends, that do without lootboxes?
 

Tmespe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
259
I’m with you guys when it comes to gameplay altering stuff, but cosmetics? Nah, you lost me. Crunch ain’t free, they gotta pay for this game somehow. They probably don’t have enough content to go the direct purchase route.

There also seems to be some conflicting info in this thread. Is there or isn’t there dupes? Some saying there are and some saying no.
The game already earned EA 150 million$. It's just greed at this point.
 

Tmespe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
259
I really don't care about cosmetics so no issues for me. Also no one should be mad as long as these items do not affect the gameplay or progress at all.
"This doesn't affect me, so it's not a problem". What a fresh take.

Getting tired if these kind of responses in pretty much any thread on issues in gaming. It's a super lazy take and does not contribute anything.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,807
Miami, FL
So, since I'm completely ignorant, lecture me:

How is a F2P game like Apex supposed to keep itself afloat, give good wages to it's developers, keep good quality updates and fixes coming frequently AND grow as a game and a company, and not just stagnate, if not with scummy lootboxes? Is there any proof that the game could earn as much, if not more money with direct purchases?
Direct purchases and/or DLC.

As it turns out, gamers don't have to be coerced into spending money. Give them cool stuff at a fair price and they will buy.

Examples (games that are or have historically been big games; abbreviated list):
  • League of Legends (the billion-dollar game; some loot boxes, almost everything available via direct purchase)
  • Fortnite (one of the other billion dollar games; not loot boxes)
  • World of Warcraft (one of the longest-running GAAS games in the world; no loot boxes)
  • Destiny 2 - no lootboxes; direct purchases and dlc
  • Path of Exile - lootboxes, direct purchases and dlc
  • Diablo 3 - no lootboxes; dlc
  • Street Fighter V - no lootboxes; direct purchases and dlc
  • Tekken 7 - no lootboxes; direct purchases and dlc
  • Mortal Kombat 11 - no lootboxes; direct purchases and dlc
  • Marvel vs Capcom 3 - no lootboxes; direct purchases
  • Dishonored franchise - no lootboxes; dlc
  • Warframe - has some mod packs, but most things for sale are available for direct purchase
  • Monster Hunter World - DLC

All games that have survived years (or will survive years), feeding devs families and enabling future content development without depending on loot boxes. There are many more than can be listed, but the point is served already.

Games not pictured:
  • Very many EA / Ubisoft games
  • Valve games*

*though 99.9% of Valve game cosmetics can be purchased directly through their Marketplace, so it should get something of an asterisk

Make no mistake: this brand of scumbaggery is a choice, not a necessity. It is enabled and empowered by the tag team of passivity and apologism (the "just don't use it" people) like what we have riddling this thread. Most of these schemes are about greed and nothing more. They certainly aren't in the interests of their customers. But consumers collectively have to realize that and support those who are taking a stand, as they do so with their interests in mind too.
 
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Bufbaf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,339
Hamburg, Germany
We don't have the data, so it's impossible to tell. My assumption is in many cases lootboxes are not that much more profitable, but they require little effort to implement, and catering to whales who will buy anything is easier than catering to the majority who might require.more incentives to buy content.

For this specific event it's not only about loot boxes, but also about that they increased the price of them by 700% for this time limited event. If you're interested in one skin you might have to buy 150$ of lootboxes if you're unlucky. On top of that, they have an item that you can only get after buying all other items. You might think you would get this for free, but no, you have to fucking pay an additional 35$. It's not made for the majority of the playerbase, it's made to exploit whales. It's frankly disgusting.
Yes. If you have to make the game free, take money for a premium model. Take money for just selling skins, characters, emotes and such. Make all lootbox content available from game progression. Do paid premium tournaments. All of these are more ethical (in the actual meaning) then this sort of casino bullshit for people who love cosmetics in a cosmetics-based system.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,372
How is a F2P game like Apex supposed to keep itself afloat, give good wages to it's developers, keep good quality updates and fixes coming frequently AND grow as a game and a company, and not just stagnate, if not with scummy lootboxes? Is there any proof that the game could earn as much, if not more money with direct purchases?
Yes. Have you heard of this little game called Fortnite?