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I'm enjoying ranked and the new battle pass leveling. It's exciting to log in every day and see the daily challenges. Actually bothered to buy this one since I didn't bother with S1.
I've gotten it quite a bit and it is annoying the hell out of me.
I think you played with me (bmc811) the other day. Sorry I was quiet- roommate was trying to sleep.
I've gotten it quite a bit and it is annoying the hell out of me.
I think you played with me (bmc811) the other day. Sorry I was quiet- roommate was trying to sleep.
are you saying that as a mark against it? I can't really tell. One of the Wingman's big strengths has always been its versatility—even if there are better weapons at close range and better weapons at long range, not much is as good at both. Even if you pair it with a dedicated long-range weapon like the Longbow, there's real value to having one weapon that can transition between close-range and mid-range stuff; like, EVA + Longbow has some awkward ranges/situations that a lot of players have trouble accounting for.
1. They died in level 2 storm, I can't heal through that without a lot of heals.
2. Not worth the risk, they'd spawn with nothing and get immediately pushed.
Most realistic bet would be to try the 1 Vs 3 and not let them get thirsted but because of the storm position, it's not a realistic option. Even if I killed the 3 players, by the time I did, the storm would be on me and then you can't revive them because you can't pull a level 1 syringe before going down again.
You have to make the decision to push our pull out in a split second and often pulling out is the safest option.
it might take more substantial changes than 'meta' changes usually allow for. they're bumping up against a playstyle problem that has seemed to be immanent in the genre thus far. if anyone can solve it, I think these guys can, but trying to seriously tackle it might take some real nuts-and-bolts changes to how the game operates and the metrics that it uses to measure player aptitude and success. it's tricky territory, because gameplay changes that close to the metal can easily risk compromising something that's essential to how the game works as-is.
I'll be very curious to see if and how they address it
Agreed with all of the above. Maybe removing the amount of cover in all areas might change this a bit as it seems theres so much it, that that many teams can occupy such small areas instead of engaging other teams to take positional advantages? Like you said its tricky and I dont envy them at all if theyre trying to put it together. Personally I am enjoying it a bit in platinum but its so much more extreme in predator that shroud and company dont even seem to be enjoying themselves as they essentially are camping most of the game to keep cover in circles. And I cant blame them because despite how good his group is at shooters every team is just waiting for one team to make a mistake and jump on them for it.
Will for sure be very interesting to see how this plays out.
Nope the intensity is what most people like at the moment. Meta change just occurred.
And shroud literally just said he's enjoying it and doesn't mind the grind. So what you seemed to think isn't what he said.
His entire squad has been ranting about it for days what are you taling about? Just an hour ago they were sitting in a house as he sarcastically quips "this is apex legends everybody" while the game prior Skadoddle had to rally them to be positive because it was effecting their gameplay otherwise. Cherry picking a moment where he says hes overall having fun does't diminish the rest of his stream where hes complaining about the final circles/loot/ etc.
And mind you I'm not even saying its that big of a problem at the moment. But it will be eventually as this becomes more and more prevalent. Camping is a stigma word in shooters for a reason.
I forgot you were playing ranked too. All valid points. I think I make the mistake of trying to revive people too often when I shouldn't.
Got two wins tonight as Gibraltar! I'm glad to have more fun playing as him lately, when before I'd only play Caustic, period. I wanna pivot into trying out Octane more as well.
Just a few more levels and that sweet Caustic skin will be mine~
While I agree the difficulty/investment of some of the 6000XP challenges versus +1LVL ones are out of whack, I don't think all of the weekly challenges need to be full level ups. Maybe upped to 8 or 9000XP instead of 6k, but week two just started and as a player who's not particularly good at the game, I'm already BP Level 21. The Battle Pass ranks up fast, and will only get faster as the season continues with the stacking XP bonuses.
Just a few more levels and that sweet Caustic skin will be mine~
While I agree the difficulty/investment of some of the 6000XP challenges versus +1LVL ones are out of whack, I don't think all of the weekly challenges need to be full level ups. Maybe upped to 8 or 9000XP instead of 6k, but week two just started and as a player who's not particularly good at the game, I'm already BP Level 21. The Battle Pass ranks up fast, and will only get faster as the season continues with the stacking XP bonuses.
From the past week I still need to finish the 'loot 2 care packages in a single match'... One time I looted one and even managed to open another but didn't loot anything (I thought the challenge was to 'open' not 'loot'). Will probably need to use pathfinder or octane to finish this challenge someday, but I am enjoying ranked and I wont leave my team alone because of this...
Happy I got a Winston win after like 3 matches only. It's a bit like Caustic in the sense that it slays in close quarter combat but she's not the most versatile character so I don't plan on making her one of my mains. It's one of those characters making endgame fortifications inside buildings a lot more viable, but out in the open she can only really deny grenade spams with her ultimate.
You just nailed it. It's inherent to the genre and while camping might be considered a cheese tactic or lame in something like TDM, it's a very viable tactic in BR and many times can get you the win. That being said, I don't condone camping! The reason I love Apex is because it's so aggressive and not a campfest.
Respawn could always make the buildings destructible like BF5....That would probably be a quick fix update right? ;)
Yep.
You guys need to watch some Fortnite competitive matches.
I'm not kidding, I've seen games with 20+ people still alive when the final circle has closed to nothing.
Apex is tame in comparison. It would be crazy to run around picking up kills when players are good enough to blow your head off if you peak for more than half a second.
Are these pros not saving their Ultimates for the end-game circles? Good luck camping inside a single building when a Nox grenade comes in the door and the only way to avoid it is to run outside and walk into an ongoing airstrike. Maybe they need to design more Ultimates that discourage camping, although making the final circles out in the open accomplishes the same thing
pros... caustic nox... Gibraltar airstrike...
this is clearly a division by zero
I was 1v1 last night for the win against a Caustic and it was getting crazy how often we would wound each other retreat, reshield and go back at it. I was finally able to take the high ground and get him, but it was a lot of fun!
I feel that the higher I'll get in ranked, the more viable Caustic will become.
Yeah. I'm currently Gold and the Caustics/Gibraltars I fight gives me a good fun one
so after finishing my third daily challenge in a match last night, the results screen showed I also finished a fourth daily that wasn't visible in the list (two kills in repulsor IIRC)
so on the first day of the reset I got 4/10 dailies
alrighty
so on the first day of the reset I got 4/10 dailies
alrighty
I'm playing ranked in platinum and it's hard.
There's basically no incentive to push fights early. You have to play passively, else you get punished too severely. Being one of the first 10 teams (half of the lobby) to drop means you lose 3 points, being anything but anything under top 5 will equate to a net loss.
Unless you plan on going through multiple teams, which is incredibly difficult to do, it's just not worth playing with any form of aggression until you've hit at least, that top 10 bracket, and even then, you should be going for placement first, and kills second.
Honestly, while I appreciate that storm damage helps avoid passive play, I think that it would be nice if you could still revive and rez team mates in the level 2 storm. If they increased your revive HP to 3, and then you could get a syringe off and walk out after a revive.
There's basically no incentive to push fights early. You have to play passively, else you get punished too severely. Being one of the first 10 teams (half of the lobby) to drop means you lose 3 points, being anything but anything under top 5 will equate to a net loss.
Unless you plan on going through multiple teams, which is incredibly difficult to do, it's just not worth playing with any form of aggression until you've hit at least, that top 10 bracket, and even then, you should be going for placement first, and kills second.
Honestly, while I appreciate that storm damage helps avoid passive play, I think that it would be nice if you could still revive and rez team mates in the level 2 storm. If they increased your revive HP to 3, and then you could get a syringe off and walk out after a revive.
This isn't necessarily bad. The whole point of battle royales is that you outlive the majority of players then you win the final showdown of 2-4 teams. The fact that games like Fortnite and Apex turned into aggressive games where pushing was key was actually counterintuitive to what BR should be about, and it's one of the reasons PUBG still remains immensely popular despite being janky as all hell: tactics matter about as much as how well you shoot. On the other hand, Apex Legends' map is actually pretty small, and since it forces players to team up 3v3, it means there can easily be 15-25 people duking it out in a very small area, which is not particularly fun or rewarding as you are physically unable to keep everyone in sight and there's tons of luck involved at that point.
This game is sitting in a weird spot now in regards to ranked because you need to place high, which means that unless you're the top 1% you're better off playing it safe, but the game's abilities, mechanics, map, etc. are kinda made in a way that makes it easier for aggressive teams to get out alive as opposed to passive ones - again, the exact contrary to something like PUBG. And ironically they just added a class that encourages people to turtle in, making the life harder for rushers or those that want to get rid of campers with explosions. It's like the game is trying to do a balancing act between a gameplay that rewards Call Of Duty-esque twitch shooting with a system that, however, gives you better results if you hide in a bush and hope for the best.
They'll probably find a better balance for this in time.
I didn't actually offer an opinion on whether I like it or not, but I do think this notion of what 'BR should be about' that I see from you, and have heard from other people, is just straight silly. Respawn, and any game developer have the right to define and carve out their own experiences within the battle royale space.
I think it makes sense that it's about survival till the end personally, but also wish they could do a bit more to not punish people for fighting early. At the moment, if you push a fight before top 10, then you gain 1 point on average for your team (1 kill each). If you lose that fight, you lose 3-4 points. The risk of fighting before top 10 far outweighs the reward, hence no fighting.
They should seek to let people play the game more organically. At the moment, the ranking system actively discourages gunfights. I think it's one thing to not encourage aggressive play, but it's another to actively work to deter it.
Oh but I agree with you. As of now, in ranked, there's no real incentive to look for a fight early in the game. If you kill a team equipped with Mozambiques and shit you don't become more likely to survive a late battle, and you only gained a couple points - points you can easily get by finishing top 5 too instead with less risks involved. BR should be about survival in the sense that that's the game's point: how you get to the final circle should be your own choice, whether it's murdering 30 people or camping in a corner for 20 minutes. But that's the thing, they've had a gameplay loop that actively favours pushing: fast characters, abilities to lure out campers, sliding, gliding, Titanfall-esque twitch controls. It's an aggressive meta, but then ranked potentially rewards a stealth top 3 more than an aggressive match where you narrowly missed out on the top 5. This needs balance.
What I meant to say is that survival should be rewarded the most because the point of battle royale is survival of the fittest. But then if the game is normally favouring an aggressive game style it feels counterintuitive.
Not enjoying ranked at all. It's either you have a game where everyone looks for fights or a game where most of the lobby just camps. They should tweak how the RP is distributed and maybe give more RP to kills instead of placing top 5 getting the most
I think, personally. Survival should be rewarded the most, but also, if I kick another team to the lobby, that should negate my potential loss.
If you enter a 20 team BR and you kill another team and then die, you should be evening out. But in the current system, you don't. You're actually losing points.
Your team would need to be killing 3-4 other squads to negate the losses that come from losing before top 10. Which means the risk of fighting far outweighs the reward.
Tweaks for points and how scored in order of importance:
1. Survival - keep same or tweak
2. Kills - add in a second tier at maybe 2 more points at 10 total kills.
3. Damage tier - Every 500 damage gives 1 point.
4. Maybe Assists, Revives, Respawns (combo total)- Every 3 gets 1.
This would help all play styles. Obviously ladder totals may need adjusted as well.
1. Survival - keep same or tweak
2. Kills - add in a second tier at maybe 2 more points at 10 total kills.
3. Damage tier - Every 500 damage gives 1 point.
4. Maybe Assists, Revives, Respawns (combo total)- Every 3 gets 1.
This would help all play styles. Obviously ladder totals may need adjusted as well.
Maybe I'm wrong but if you can't fight other squads consistently then you shouldn't be at that rank and the system is working as intended
It's obviously a very tough problem to solve without making the win meaningless or presenting an "everybody gets points!" scenario when the goal of ranked and the points system is to eventually have the players sorted by skill.
On the subject of rewarding aggressiveness, all I can think about is Fortnite. I remember the competitive scene quickly devolving into players building tunnels and waiting to rotate into an increasingly crowded circle. No amount of incentives for kills, including actual money, changed that.
It's one thing to complain, it's another thing entirely to present an operable alternative that actually changes the behavior of the player base, isn't exploitable, and effectively tiers the player base. Good luck to Respawn, if they even want this change.
On the subject of rewarding aggressiveness, all I can think about is Fortnite. I remember the competitive scene quickly devolving into players building tunnels and waiting to rotate into an increasingly crowded circle. No amount of incentives for kills, including actual money, changed that.
It's one thing to complain, it's another thing entirely to present an operable alternative that actually changes the behavior of the player base, isn't exploitable, and effectively tiers the player base. Good luck to Respawn, if they even want this change.
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People made the same argument months ago regarding kills. That time it was XP. I still think that kills need to be worth it in the match itself. Not through meaningless points after the fact. XP, RP or otherwise. I've suggested an item shop during the match, similar to Battlerite Royale. You could fine-tune just how influential kills should be with a system like that. As an extreme example, what if epic and legendary items could only be purchased?
It wouldn't solve everything immediately, but they really should like halve the distance gunshot sounds travel. You could at least thin the herd a bit more without getting jumped every time.
btw. I feel quite vindicated by all this. Many claimed that Apex solved BR camping. I've been repeating since launch that it didn't solve shit, it was just people running around kill-thirsty like headless chickens.
It wouldn't solve everything immediately, but they really should like halve the distance gunshot sounds travel. You could at least thin the herd a bit more without getting jumped every time.
btw. I feel quite vindicated by all this. Many claimed that Apex solved BR camping. I've been repeating since launch that it didn't solve shit, it was just people running around kill-thirsty like headless chickens.
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People say they want kills to be rewarded but they don't want anything to actually reward kills ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Of course you might not be among those people and in that case, fair enough.
I don't think it should exclude epic or even legendary gear btw. Just an example of how fundamentally it could affect how people need to approach fighting.
im sure there are other ways we can see how rewards can work in Apex vs a in-game store to purchase the OP weapons. It would change a lot of how this BR works and would probably reduce from the overall enjoy-ability of Apex.
one way kills can have better rewards is to reward shards/materials to craft other cosmetic items? It could be something exciting so for those who love to do kill streaks, they get multipliers maybe? i dont really want to do math and propose a system, but i can see some potential in that.
but having the ability to buy powerful weapons based on kills sounds like it would snowball the game for the 'winning' team that has the most kills.
Yeah, ranked has been a god send for me because I'm rarely playing against people with 200 wins and the 2k damage badge, etc. Game is much more enjoyable for me in the bronze/silver tier, although I leave a lot of kills on the table as my low-skill teammates aren't doing much damage to help finish off squads.
On an unrelated note, I forgot how much of an advantage playing with a headset is when compared to your sound coming through speakers. The sound is sooo much better, it's like a pseudo wall hack being able to hear enemy movement so clearly.
Not high enough rank to be losing points but yeah this is stupid.
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Again, the store can be scaled to exactly the extend they want to. It can be about getting that blue mag you can't find anywhere rather than anything OP.
I think your example is fine but it doesn't address the core of the issue, which is kills being rewarding in the match. Nothing they give you after the match will change that.
I think the penalties are too severe. I do think kills do need to be rewarded somehow but honestly the only way I can think to do that is to make it a built in mechanic that if you kill someone you get partial or full shields back. That at least rewards aggresive behavior and protects you from being third parties too hard. Perhaps you can make the shields be temporary and they fade after a few seconds after a kill.
It also makes wins matter as far as ranked goes.
It also makes wins matter as far as ranked goes.
the main difference that ranked added (especially watching top streamers/pros) is... that added a sort of goal about winning and in parallel a lot of "fear" to die and to lose and to waste time in the grind to the upper ranks.
So basically, what was a simple pubstomping BR, in the costant chase of the highest kill number (just to give a meal to egos and masturbate about that little kill counter badge) is now a constant chase for the highest placement possible. And this adds a lot of tactics, tension, intensity that was absent before.
Latest circles are just like little R6 sieges, watching and peeking every corner and shooting angle by the pixel.
And is a lot more fun and enterntaining to watch, and I think also to play for this top players.
So basically, what was a simple pubstomping BR, in the costant chase of the highest kill number (just to give a meal to egos and masturbate about that little kill counter badge) is now a constant chase for the highest placement possible. And this adds a lot of tactics, tension, intensity that was absent before.
Latest circles are just like little R6 sieges, watching and peeking every corner and shooting angle by the pixel.
And is a lot more fun and enterntaining to watch, and I think also to play for this top players.
I think the frustrating part of it is Siege is at least team vs team. This is FFA which inherently feels frustrating because a third, fourth, fifth team can just mop up.
just like the game was ALL before the ranked queue debuted ;)
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