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o Tesseract

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,542
I'm just confused where people think the SBMM is broken. Some people say their teammates are trash, meaning SBMM isn't giving them skill based teammates. But others are saying the competition is too fierce, so everyone except teammates are being overpowered? So shouldn't we have also an influx of people bragging about how underpowered their opponents seem to be when they're on the other side of that imbalance?
This is exactly what's happening though.... In 95% of lobbies I joined last night my teammates were under level 100 with a couple of hundred kills at most while the champion squad was a predator/diamond 3-stack each with 20-bomb badges and 5k-10k kills.

You don't see people bragging about how underpowered their opponents are because most of the people who would complain about that are the diamond/predator 3-stacks that don't have to worry about getting shitty teammates...
 

OmarTheHippo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
454
This is exactly what's happening though.... In 95% of lobbies I joined last night my teammates were under level 100 with a couple of hundred kills at most while the champion squad was a predator/diamond 3-stack each with 20-bomb badges and 5k-10k kills.

You don't see people bragging about how underpowered their opponents are because most of the people who would complain about that are the diamond/predator 3-stacks that don't have to worry about getting shitty teammates...
But wouldn't you be seeing that anyways? In completely random matchmaking those elite players will end up somewhere and it won't be in a lobby of only other elite players
 

o Tesseract

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,542
But wouldn't you be seeing that anyways? In completely random matchmaking those elite players will end up somewhere and it won't be in a lobby of only other elite players
Well yeah but the problem is that the lobby consists almost entirely of:
1. Me with 2 shitty teammates who seem to have gotten in thanks my skill level outweighing theirs (?)
2. Champion squad 3-stack of predators/diamonds with 5k/10k kills.
3. 18 other squads similar to #2.

At least that's what it seems like to me. And streamers like Viss have commented the same.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,108
So what is a reasonable win% and KD that people expect from the game? What are the required stats for the game to be considered "good" and "fun"?

I'm just confused where people think the SBMM is broken. Some people say their teammates are trash, meaning SBMM isn't giving them skill based teammates. But others are saying the competition is too fierce, so everyone except teammates are being overpowered? So shouldn't we have also an influx of people bragging about how underpowered their opponents seem to be when they're on the other side of that imbalance?

Unless SBMM is adding overpowered AI characters, the kills and wins have to be going somewhere, and whoever those people are must be enjoying the game more

I just struggle to understand how people want to maintain above average win and kill rates, when the ONLY way to have above average stats is for the people you win againt to be having (from their perspective) "bad" games against "super sweaty" players

I mean, I'm not a game programmer so I have no clue what goes into the metrics behind SBMM but I know as a player that the game just feels like dogshit now in casual play. I can't put hard numbers on what I'd like to see happen but it 100% definitely lost whatever magical SBMM tuning was in the game previously and I think that's why more and more people are leaving the game as evidence by the XBL chart drop. Some people might think the chart drop is due to people finishing the BP but I don't think that's it. They're not finding the game fun enough to keep playing, even on this new map, which should've stopped any boredom of playing King's Canyon constantly.
 
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DaveLong

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,199
I think the people who complain are simply the loudest people in general so there's really no trying to make sense of it. No one who is having fun is going to jump on Reset or another board to tell you how much fun they're having. They just play and have more fun.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,108
I think the people who complain are simply the loudest people in general so there's really no trying to make sense of it. No one who is having fun is going to jump on Reset or another board to tell you how much fun they're having. They just play and have more fun.

Nah. Speaking personally, I've been on this thread since day one and have been championing it against naysayers the whole time up until now. The great thing about Resetera is that devs read and contribute here. They get to see real time feedback on their game — both good and bad.
 

o Tesseract

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,542
I think the people who complain are simply the loudest people in general so there's really no trying to make sense of it. No one who is having fun is going to jump on Reset or another board to tell you how much fun they're having. They just play and have more fun.
That's obviously not true given the number of posts I have in this very thread talking about how great it is...

It's entirely possible that people who enjoy the game could not enjoy the game after a very controversial thing was added to the game. SBMM was silently added to non-ranked games, where it has no place IMO. If I want SBMM, I will played ranked, where I expect SBMM.

Given the inherent randomness of BR, I don't think skill should be taken into account with who you're matched with. BR always had those situations where there was those few players in the lobby that were basically the "raid boss" and you had to deal with that and overcome it. It didn't feel unfair because it was just random, just like the loot distribution and circle locations.

IMO SBMM does not belong in BR. I personally think this game's implementation of ranked is super lame and hope that they come up with something more interesting (and maybe more akin to Destiny Trials) in the future.
 

CruJones33Rad

Member
Apr 22, 2019
865
So what is a reasonable win% and KD that people expect from the game? What are the required stats for the game to be considered "good" and "fun"?

I'm just confused where people think the SBMM is broken. Some people say their teammates are trash, meaning SBMM isn't giving them skill based teammates. But others are saying the competition is too fierce, so everyone except teammates are being overpowered? So shouldn't we have also an influx of people bragging about how underpowered their opponents seem to be when they're on the other side of that imbalance?

Unless SBMM is adding overpowered AI characters, the kills and wins have to be going somewhere, and whoever those people are must be enjoying the game more

I just struggle to understand how people want to maintain above average win and kill rates, when the ONLY way to have above average stats is for the people you win againt to be having (from their perspective) "bad" games against "super sweaty" players

It seems to be broken where they are saying 3 Diamond/Predators on a premade squad technically are equal to a squad with 1 Diamond/Predator and 2 randoms. That's just not good. Even a duo of great players with one random is at a major advantage. These teams are plentiful, sweaty, and are mowing down entire lobbies. It's the same people every time. If every player went in with an equal chance at having 2 random teammates, good or bad, then things would feel much better because you wouldn't be crushed 20 games in a row. The odds would play out where you would have good players on your squad more often combined with other teams having less good players. As it stands, I as a diamond solo player, and being paired every single game with two noobs who can't shoot. We're going up against multiple premade full squads who are all diamond/predators and on mic. I am not good enough to play like that in pubs. Most people aren't, it's a team game.

Edit: I'm sorry to be complaining, I up until very recently have contributed a lot of hype posts about game modes, skins, and things like that. It's just that since this change became noticeable, my favorite game has become completely no fun for me. I'm done going on about SBMM here.
 

OmarTheHippo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
454
That's obviously not true given the number of posts I have in this very thread talking about how great it is...

It's entirely possible that people who enjoy the game could not enjoy the game after a very controversial thing was added to the game. SBMM was silently added to non-ranked games, where it has no place IMO. If I want SBMM, I will played ranked, where I expect SBMM.

Given the inherent randomness of BR, I don't think skill should be taken into account with who you're matched with. BR always had those situations where there was those few players in the lobby that were basically the "raid boss" and you had to deal with that and overcome it. It didn't feel unfair because it was just random, just like the loot distribution and circle locations.

IMO SBMM does not belong in BR. I personally think this game's implementation of ranked is super lame and hope that they come up with something more interesting (and maybe more akin to Destiny Trials) in the future.
That feels like a lot of contradictions. If BR is random then you wouldn't be able to measure skill in the first place, meaning that any attempt at SBMM would result in random matchmaking thus... exactly what you want?

And if you feel that being matched against a few raid bosses isn't unfair because of randomness, then wouldn't there also be no problem getting matched against similarly skilled players in SBMM because, afterall, the randomness still makes it a toss up?

Arguments against SBMM still come across as seniority culture. "I put in my time getting stomped as a noob, now it's my turn". Above average players want to continue putting up above average stats at the expensive of less good players. They want to win more than once every 20 games. I don't know if that's necessarily bad to want—video games are an escape, not homework—but it is disingenuous to ignore all the people having a bad experience because of it
 

o Tesseract

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,542
That feels like a lot of contradictions. If BR is random then you wouldn't be able to measure skill in the first place, meaning that any attempt at SBMM would result in random matchmaking thus... exactly what you want?

And if you feel that being matched against a few raid bosses isn't unfair because of randomness, then wouldn't there also be no problem getting matched against similarly skilled players in SBMM because, afterall, the randomness still makes it a toss up?

Arguments against SBMM still come across as seniority culture. "I put in my time getting stomped as a noob, now it's my turn". Above average players want to continue putting up above average stats at the expensive of less good players. They want to win more than once every 20 games. I don't know if that's necessarily bad to want—video games are an escape, not homework—but it is disingenuous to ignore all the people having a bad experience because of it
How is it a contradiction when my argument essentially boils to "hey how about they put the game back to how it was before they changed it without telling anyone?".

The game was always tracking "skill". Wins. Losses. KDR. The works. But it doesn't make sense to match people together on those factors in a BR. If I start the game by landing next to a Peacekeeper and purple armour and an enemy squad lands and collectively picks up a single Mozambique and a white helmet, does me wiping that squad off the drop imply that I have skill? No, I just got lucky. But the game now thinks I'm a god because I now have at minimum a 3.0 kd for that game just for getting lucky.

That's why I'm saying that the BR mode should not have forced SBMM. If people want to be ranked, they should have the choice of entering ranked just as it was before.

For now, every game I play basically feels like unranked ranked, and that's not the experience I want to have when I'm queuing into pubs.

My feedback above also mentions that ranked should be more than just the same thing with some ranks attached to it. As it stands you still have garbage players in the higher tiers because points aren't necessarily distributed for individual contributions. So people still get carried into higher rank.

The system literally doesn't work and I think they should change it. You can think it's contradictory, but many people seem to share the same opinion, so do with that what you will.
 

CruJones33Rad

Member
Apr 22, 2019
865
Three games in a row 15 kills, 12 kills, 18 kills, all 2k+ damage.

335107a5ead9c92e00f28161f84c09a6--a-phoenix-phoenix-rising.jpg
 

Aldi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,634
United Kingdom
Is there anything more frustrating then having a random team mate pick up your banner with the obvious intent to loot all your shit followed by walking right by respawn beacons without reviving you? Even more so when you previously revived them.

It's not even stupidity , lack of skill or noobs, it's people being intentionally spiteful because they're horrible humans.
 

CruJones33Rad

Member
Apr 22, 2019
865
Game feels like it's back to normal since yesterday afternoon. Maybe my K/D fell below some threshold they've calculated and I'm in a lower pubs bracket now. Regardless, I'm happy.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,108
Yeah today was a tiny bit better playing....Maybe the system needed some time to calculate where the median skill level is and it's realizing that they're pairing me against way better players and squads. Who knows. Got 1 win today and it was a good one too.
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
Managed to make top 3 with a Caustic who didn't drop a single gas trap or use his ult for the entire game. It's almost like it's deliberate at that point.

Basically just a walking dead weight.

Still getting atrocious texture loading problems on PC

Same on PS4. Some never load, ever, like the ground next to the couple of house north of thermal station. Wonder if it's the same for everyone else.
 

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,013
Is there anything more frustrating then having a random team mate pick up your banner with the obvious intent to loot all your shit followed by walking right by respawn beacons without reviving you? Even more so when you previously revived them.

It's not even stupidity , lack of skill or noobs, it's people being intentionally spiteful because they're horrible humans.

Lol, they probably only took the banner as a forced step to be able to loot your body.
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
What the hell were they thinking with that new kill leader animation ? You're in the middle of a firefight and that shit comes and clogs up your entire vision. Like... Why
 
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lush

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,802
Knoxville, TN
Capitol City is terrible, especially considering the amount of people that want to hit up those two scaffolding/zipline filled hellholes. I'd still rather drop there than Train Yard which is a complete dumpster with nowhere near enough loot to go around.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,108
Capitol City is terrible, especially considering the amount of people that want to hit up those two scaffolding/zipline filled hellholes. I'd still rather drop there than Train Yard which is a complete dumpster with nowhere near enough loot to go around.

Capitol City is the new Skulltown but Skulltown was more fun to fight in since it was pretty much interconnected. Those two scaffold buildings are the worst.

Train Yard is just horrible on every level and there's no reason to drop there.
 

Ctrl Alt Del

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,312
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Capitol City is terrible, especially considering the amount of people that want to hit up those two scaffolding/zipline filled hellholes. I'd still rather drop there than Train Yard which is a complete dumpster with nowhere near enough loot to go around.
Agreed, those are my least favorite places to land that everyone wants to go for for some reason. I'm thinking it's their central positioning on the map.
 

Strider

Member
Oct 25, 2017
474
USA
Getting back into the game but I only really have 1 friend that still plays... How many of you guys play on PC? Looking for some people to play with...
 

CruJones33Rad

Member
Apr 22, 2019
865
I'm curious what the Mirage construction zone is going to look like. The construction flags are up now. It's not really an area of the map I remember anyone going other than en route to somewhere else. The circles never seem to end in that quadrant of the map. Any word on the train event? I would have hoped it was starting Tuesday, but maybe another week to wait? That'd only be 1 week before the holidays for it to run which seems short, especially since there is so much Christmas holiday stuff in the event.

Here's a video of the 3rd Firing Range easter egg,
 
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OP
OP
Delphine

Delphine

Fen'Harel Enansal
Administrator
Mar 30, 2018
3,658
France
I actually often have a lot of fun in the Train Yard. I like landing on one of those 4 floating buildings, grab a sniper and be that annoying pain in the ass for the 5 following minutes.
 
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Rental

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,659
Train yard is alright and has escape points. That's the way I look at landing spots. Most areas even the cities are manageable to abandoned from if needed. Just drop on the outer buildings or land mid level garage since everyone tends to go top. That's the issue some people are scared to move away from the drop point if they have no items and loot on the run. It's totally possible to get looted up just roaming around no name areas if the drop fails. It's better than running towards other teams to check a few more bins.

Epicenter is the one that stands out as being tough to abandon from a no loot bad drop with others teams. I feel it's drop popularity is low due to this unless it's on the ships flight path then people will go.
 

Salarians

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,723
momwife.club
as a solo player 99% of the time I pass jump master off and boy people sure only want to land in the same three spots lol

and, of course, the two-ish times I actually did choose to land somewhere in the past week, my teammates instead split off and go the the construction site in the city anyway lmao
 

o Tesseract

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,542
Yeah today was a tiny bit better playing....Maybe the system needed some time to calculate where the median skill level is and it's realizing that they're pairing me against way better players and squads. Who knows. Got 1 win today and it was a good one too.
I read this hoping maybe they tweaked something so I hopped on. First game I was paired with two level 50s while the champ squad were all Apex predators with TTV names.

So yeah, NOPE. Lol...
 

Aldi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,634
United Kingdom
Yeah, I switched the damage indicator to show individual damage amounts rather than stacked damage and on more than one occasion I've watched a situation back because I'm almost certain that ive done more than 200 damage.

Most of the time it's Gilbralter and I've put most of the shots into the gun shield.
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
Just came back to my main account after playing for a week or so on my smurf, and they must have made some adjustments in the meantime because HOLY JEEBUS, the fabled sbmm just hit me like a fucking truck ! Lobbies are now full to the brim with diamonds, predators and badges I'll never get. And these people are even more aggressive because there's less pressure I suppose. Still snagged a couple of wins because I was with a skilled friend, but if you think you can take it easy or mess up even once, well it's death by sweaty fuck guaranteed.
If this is what pubs are going to be like from now on, might as well go back to rank and give Predator another try, it might actually be easier.
 

Sejanoz

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,685
I'm still getting that bug where two people get into a game while the third remains in the main menu for some reason. Happens especially when I invite a random I just played with - and it's been going since release, for fuck's sake.

Speaking of which, wasn't there supposed to be a penalty forgiveness if you quit because the game didn't give you a full squad? I tried to leave but the usual penalty popup would appear.
Should I have just ignored it? If so, it's not very intuitive
 

CruJones33Rad

Member
Apr 22, 2019
865
Looks like the Pathfinder heirloom (boxing gloves) are dropping with the Christmas event. I may have recovered from my stroke, I've had two days of pure bliss with the game, back like the good ol' days. It seems like, based on everyone else's posts, if nothing was done on Respawn's end, my ranking must have dropped and I've been put back in my original tier for SBMM.

Anyone think we'll get a kill cam? I saw the ones in COD:MW and think they'd be really useful in Apex since you have time before getting revived or rez'd.
 

Ctrl Alt Del

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,312
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Anyone think we'll get a kill cam? I saw the ones in COD:MW and think they'd be really useful in Apex since you have time before getting revived or rez'd.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any of the biggest BRs have killcams. I they'd denounce the positioning of the person who shot you down and, possibly, of the rest of their team too. One of the most pivotal bits of a BR is information and a killcam would feed a lot of that.
 

Bauer91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,206
Played a lot of Ranked today, went from Diamond III to Diamond I.

Even that's busted. So many players, as you're about to wipe them, quit to avoid points loss. I had a Caustic at 10 HP, he runs behind a rock and in the two seconds I need to get to it, he's now a box and I don't get the kill.
 

Ctrl Alt Del

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,312
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Even that's busted. So many players, as you're about to wipe them, quit to avoid points loss. I had a Caustic at 10 HP, he runs behind a rock and in the two seconds I need to get to it, he's now a box and I don't get the kill.
Quitting/disconnecting players should still award the kill to the last person to damage them, like what happens when someone dies to the ring.
 

Rental

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,659
Played a lot of Ranked today, went from Diamond III to Diamond I.

Even that's busted. So many players, as you're about to wipe them, quit to avoid points loss. I had a Caustic at 10 HP, he runs behind a rock and in the two seconds I need to get to it, he's now a box and I don't get the kill.

Not really busted unless he's doing it for the remainder of the party to get loss forgiveness. He should still get the point loss for himself though. Good way to rotate getting eliminated early with minimizing point loss for friends, not yourself though. You still get a penalty for dropping so it's not really worth it overall I'd say.

I've had matches where a random dropped on my team early and I still try for points. Just makes it a free game if I do die before hitting positive though.

Or is it not giving you kill points? I would think it would since he's technically eliminated and you did the recent damage.
 

Bauer91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,206
Not really busted unless he's doing it for the remainder of the party to get loss forgiveness. He should still get the point loss for himself though. Good way to rotate getting eliminated early with minimizing point loss for friends, not yourself though. You still get a penalty for dropping so it's not really worth it overall I'd say.

I've had matches where a random dropped on my team early and I still try for points. Just makes it a free game if I do die before hitting positive though.

Or is it not giving you kill points? I would think it would since he's technically eliminated and you did the recent damage.

If you close the game neither you nor your teammates lose points.

You don't get points if they DC mid fight, don't remember if you do if they quit when knocked. I don't really play ranked often.
 

Rental

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,659
If you close the game neither you nor your teammates lose points.

You don't get points if they DC mid fight, don't remember if you do if they quit when knocked. I don't really play ranked often.

Wait, if you close out of a match you also get match forgiveness? That doesn't make sense and can't be functioning properly since the post match report should show the results where you were at during the time of the disconnect and then penalizing you with entering the queue. The match forgiveness would only be given for the remaining party members. I thought they indicated on a previous update due to the stability of the game being better they removed loss forgiveness for your own disconnects and activated the queue penalties?

I stick around even if my respawn times out cause I want whatever points my teammates can gain with placement, so quitting early I never do!
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
Well last weekend a friendly random third (love when people actually have mics) told me and my friend about a spot on the map that ALWAYS guarantees a purple or gold shield and a nearby spot that ALWAYS spawns snipers. Was this common knowledge? Any more of these locations? The shield is in a cave and the snipers are on top of a mountain. Both in one of the corners of the map.

We won 2 in a row with him.
 

Sejanoz

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,685
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any of the biggest BRs have killcams. I they'd denounce the positioning of the person who shot you down and, possibly, of the rest of their team too. One of the most pivotal bits of a BR is information and a killcam would feed a lot of that.
Didn't think of that, makes sense.
Blackout does have killcams, but they are shown at the end once all the members of the squad get killed
 

HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
39,622
Well last weekend a friendly random third (love when people actually have mics) told me and my friend about a spot on the map that ALWAYS guarantees a purple or gold shield and a nearby spot that ALWAYS spawns snipers. Was this common knowledge? Any more of these locations? The shield is in a cave and the snipers are on top of a mountain. Both in one of the corners of the map.

We won 2 in a row with him.

Yeah there's a ridge above Skyhook that has snipers and a cave on the ground that guarantees purple. I think they're the only two guarantee spots though.
 
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