• It's the most wonderful time of the year! Make your list and check it twice. The ResetEra Games of the Year 2019 Voting Thread is now live. Voting will be open for the next 6 days, 19 hours, 46 minutes, 51 seconds, and will close on Jan 26, 2020 at 9:00 AM.

Apex Legends |OT2| Season 3: I Choo-Choose You, Crypto!

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,891
I don't know how to perceive "so every encounter doesn't feel sweaty" any other way than " I want to pub stomp."


The current implementation most definitely can use tweaking and Respawn has even hinted that it's already been softened a bit. I'm sure it stabilizes a bit over time over time as well as players land at their correct MMR. The problem with squads definitely needs to be fixed, seems like more a matchmaking issue tbh. I think solo players and squads should be separated completely but I'm biased as someone that solely solo queues.

I can only see SBMM as a positive, it will help with player retention and most everyone should be on a similar skill progression track.
I don't care about pub stomping in the least. I'm the kind of player that's happy if I get 3-4 kills in a match and contribute to the team. When I go 15-20 matches in a row and can't get a single kill then something is massively wrong. I have issues with the quality of the engagements way over the number of wins I get. I don't know a better way to describe it then that, honestly. They have created a system that is not judging and matching skill in a fair way. It's a shitty
system that decided that my average ass should be paired against 57 other high diamond and predators and it's ruined my experience with the game, personally.
 
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CruJones33Rad

Member
Apr 22, 2019
229
One-two punch; SBMM implemented October 15th, MW released October 25th. When people ask for solo queue, does that mean you play solo and every else does too? Or does it mean that all teams are filled by solo players, no premade groups? I don't want to play alone, I just want every team to be made of randoms, no premades.
 

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
3,391
Germany
Man, I'm so fucking mad. I still get those random DXGI ERROR DEVICE HUNG errors on PC. It ruins almost every match and appear out of nowhere making it so frustrating to play this fucking game. Had this occasionally with my GTX 1070 and now it got worse with my RTX 2070 Super. Windows 10 is completely and freshly installed, so is Apex. No other game crashes, my system runs stable as fuck but this error really pisses me off and make me not wanting to spend a single buck for this code garbage.

Looked up on the internet and google only leads me to countless threads of reddit with the same error and no real fix. Some people though advice to revert back to Nvidia drivers 436.48... which is from OCTOBER. If this is driver related how can this error still exist? Sure, Apex might not be Overwatch or CODMW but it is not some niche, unknown indie game either. Can they PLEASE get together with Nvidia, sit down and fix this shit?

I haven't encountered such frustrating errors/crashes for the last few years.
 

thenexus6

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,098
UK
My PSN ran out mid November and seeing as I only play Siege (pretty much daily) I decided to let it lapse for a while. I really miss playing Siege, but I don't feel the need to pay £40 just to play just that.

So I jumped back on Apex after kinda going off it for a while, and man i've rediscovered my love for this game. I've had so many good games over this December i'm constantly with that "one more round" mindset. Definitely right up there as one of the best releases of 2019, and excited to see what 2020 has in store for Apex.
 

Duffking

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,050
Don't hit shots like this every day:


Tangent, is anyone getting code net a lot lately? Seems the whole server drops when it happens, had it about 5-6 games in a row yesterday.
 

ty_hot

Member
Dec 14, 2017
4,011
I subbed for PS Now because I thought they had Overcookd 2 already but that is only coming in about a week... so I decided to just try PUBG. How can anyone enjoy that? The main menu / lobby itself is horrendous, graphics look like a PS3 game, lots of pop in, ugly ass assets everywhere, houses look empty (they are!) and lifeless (they are!), there is that stupid pre-game lobby with everyone just standing still for no apparent reason. Getting gun attachments that dont attach automatically to your gun, or letting you change your lvl 2 helmet for a lvl 1 one is terrible.

After 1 match I deleted the game and came back to Apex, it looks and feels like a whole generation above in every aspect. I am getting closer to the 100th Battle Pass level, in the last few weeks I only played the special event to there is a ton of achievements waiting for me... will probably get to the lvl 110 easily this time, way easier than the last season.

And I am really happy everytime I see Apex in a GOTY list, game really is that great even with it's faults.
 

Rental

Member
Oct 28, 2017
875
Apex is the most polished BR game and Season 4 is going to be big. It will be a celebration of 1 year with Apex. Sure player count saw a drop recently but do many other games have had recent content updates since season 3 launch. It will go back up with new content. They need to space out seasons better and do some mid season content pushes to help with the dips.

Going back to even blackout is jarring. Blackout was great and is ok to visit once in awhile really dropped off with updates and content. Some stuff they released had zero thought put into it. The inventory system in blackout with attachments is still confusing but a little better than launch where you had to drop everything and swap individually.
 

o Tesseract

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,090
One-two punch; SBMM implemented October 15th, MW released October 25th. When people ask for solo queue, does that mean you play solo and every else does too? Or does it mean that all teams are filled by solo players, no premade groups? I don't want to play alone, I just want every team to be made of randoms, no premades.
Both would be nice. But most people are talking about actual solo mode (teams of 1).
 

Duffking

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,050
Think I'm having my worst ever apex night tonight. I haven't had one game where I've been able to get a good load out in 2 hours. Constant uphill battle against way better geared people.

So many games where I haven't even had a body shield after 5 minutes today. It's stupid. And obviously the first squad you run into has gold and purple gear.
 
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CruJones33Rad

Member
Apr 22, 2019
229
Last few nights the results have been much better for me. Maybe the last 5 days. One thing I notice is that as soon as I get people choosing my main (wraith) the SBMM seems to be turned off. I don't know if it's connected, it's just anecdotal, but I maybe used to go a hundred matches before someone else would be my main, over the last few days, nearly every other match someone picks them and I have to be someone else. I wonder if they had anything in there trying to keep players separated so they could choose their mains
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,891
Apex is the most polished BR game and Season 4 is going to be big. It will be a celebration of 1 year with Apex. Sure player count saw a drop recently but do many other games have had recent content updates since season 3 launch. It will go back up with new content. They need to space out seasons better and do some mid season content pushes to help with the dips.

Going back to even blackout is jarring. Blackout was great and is ok to visit once in awhile really dropped off with updates and content. Some stuff they released had zero thought put into it. The inventory system in blackout with attachments is still confusing but a little better than launch where you had to drop everything and swap individually.
My guess is that they'll bring back a revamped / altered KC for the anniversary and drop out WE for the next season. I like the idea of Apex having multiple maps but I'm missing KC lately. Maybe that's due to the SBMM changes and Im equating my frustration with SBMM and WE.

On that note - I got put into 5 matches in a row yesterday all with predators on my team. My first thought was "Okay. Well, I have some decent players with me, this should be good." Nope. The rest of the lobby was nothing but predators and high diamond players so it all evened out. We got roasted with me dying first in almost every fight (I'm high plat) and then ofcourse my team died shortly after.

It sucked so bad that I said "fuck it....Time to smurf". I load up my Level 11 account and won 3 games in a row pretty much single handedly against new players. It wasn't even fun, either. Shooting players that can't play or move properly just feels wrong.

So here we are...Literally stuck in some weird ELO hell in casual Apex.
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,499
I just had a session where 2 of us came back from a 3 week break and the third one was playing the game for the first time. Enemies were just as tough as always, naturally. If you're gonna do forced SBMM at least get it sort of right.
 

CruJones33Rad

Member
Apr 22, 2019
229
I'm trying out new legends for next season so I can ween myself off of Wraith and I've come to like Caustic the most. Dropping gas barrels on people is so much fun.
 

Pankratous

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,627
I've gotten really bad at this game. I used to be pretty good, regularly getting over 10 kills per game and breaking 2k damage.

These days I'm happy if I get 3 kills. I had a 5 kill game today and it felt like the best I'd played in a while.
 

Spine_Ripper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
623
Trying to start playing Apex but al my friends are on consoles and I’m on PC. Is cross play a thing? I googled and saw some articles from September saying it would be coming, but that’s about it.
 
OP
OP
Delphine

Delphine

Baby, Pink is my favourite part
Moderator
Mar 30, 2018
2,113
France
Trying to start playing Apex but al my friends are on consoles and I’m on PC. Is cross play a thing? I googled and saw some articles from September saying it would be coming, but that’s about it.

Nope, no cross play option available for now, as far as I know. Not yet anyway, but it's been a while since I heard news of it too.
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,499
I've gotten really bad at this game. I used to be pretty good, regularly getting over 10 kills per game and breaking 2k damage.

These days I'm happy if I get 3 kills. I had a 5 kill game today and it felt like the best I'd played in a while.
Stats tanked for anyone above average when they introduced SBMM, so they're not the best metric for your improvement.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,891
Stats tanked for anyone above average when they introduced SBMM, so they're not the best metric for your improvement.
I never pay attention to my stats in BR games because everything is too random to make it an accurate assessment of my skill level. Besides, I already know that I'm platinum trash.

I honestly think Respawn designed the new SBMM around the following two sets of criteria in casual Apex:

Players who are matched with diamond and predators: Semi-decent players who have the ability to aim the gun proficiently and can both move and shoot at a target. Also able to run, jump and utilize mantling.

Players who are matched with Silver, Gold and Bronze: Players who don't realize they're being shot at until after they've been downed. They control their legend like they're playing a tank simulator. They cannot aim and move at the same time. They might not have ever gotten a kill or a win in the game.

The problem is that their SBMM metric doesn't help out the middle guy.
 

Fuhgeddit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,500
I’m also LTTP and started playing this game. Wow can’t believe I’ve been playing other MP games.

I’m just super bummed that the limited time only event is leaving. I love that game mode... it’s thrilling.
 

5taquitos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,018
OR
Welcome new players! Despite having fallen off recently, it's still my top MP game of 2019 and maybe the gen.

Here's hoping we get another major shakeup soon, either along the lines of a major map change like when Repulsor fell, or just a new map.

I still don't really miss KC though, so not in a rush to go back there yet.
 

Zeroro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,376
This games match making and hit detection gets worse every time I play, it's impressive.
I'm down to playing once maybe every 4-5 days, but last time I played, I got two matches within ten minutes where I was paired with only one person who proceeded to immediately quit (which, I don't blame them, but still). Good stuff.
 

Rental

Member
Oct 28, 2017
875
Weird.. new week but all week 13 BP challenges are in progress or completed. Did the new week not become available on PS4 for challenges or is it just not aligned with the weekly xp reset? It says week 14 is 6 days away.. (too many weeks in this season).
 

DantesLink

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,720
Up to what level can you receive apex boxes to open?
The Player Level cap has been increased from 100 to 500. Players can now earn a total of 199 Apex Packs related to Player Level rewards at the following cadence:

  • Level 2 - 20: One pack every level (19 Apex Packs total)
  • Level 22 - 300: One pack every two levels (140 Apex Packs total)
  • Level 305 - 500: One pack every five levels (40 Apex Packs total)
  • You will continue to earn 600 Legend Tokens per level and per 18,000 XP at level 500
 

5taquitos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,018
OR
Up to what level can you receive apex boxes to open?
The loot box table has all the worst shit, they haven't added good new Legendary skins outside of a handful of weapons in a long-ass time. Everything has been event-only.

But as noted above, you earn them up to level 500 now, though obviously the rate goes down.

Apex Pack legendaries are all basic af :(
 

Ctrl Alt Del

Member
Jun 10, 2018
316
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
I am consistently surprised by the never-ending flow of crap coming out of my loot boxes. Now this:

[URL
Way you phrase it make it sound like a bad thing. But this... it's bliss.
I wouldn't personally mind people cheating the system into a higher rank, but dashboarding has seen me having a lot of kills denied because of the guy just suddenly quitting the game. This shit happens every ranked game on high elo.
 

Chronospherics

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,506
Brighton
I've been trying to stick with this but I can't. I have over 20,000 kills from Seasons 1 and 2, but I'm just fed up with playing Apex. I'm done with the this game. I'm not looking forward to Season 4, I don't expect Respawn are taking the game in a direction that I'm interested in, and I'd rather quit now than continue to play a game that I no longer enjoy, only to burn out and quit later down the road anyway.

The awful map, the skill based matchmaking, the balance issues, it's all just so frustrating.

Every game I play is stacked with Apex predator, 20 bomb players. It's a complete sweat fest. I can see why I get matched into these lobbies, my KDR is still beyond 5.0 based on my season 1 and 2 stats, I get it, but I just don't enjoy being dragged into evenly skilled games in a game that's so RNG heavy. It just works against the fun factor of the battle royale genre.

When everyone is evenly skilled, those randomised factors become the bigger predictor of success. What armour do I have? What guns have I found? Did I drop on someone? It used to be the case that because player skill was also a variable, there was a fair chance of outplaying your odds.

This also exacerbates balance issues, half the champs in this game are borderline useless. Like quite literally, they range from having constant, automatic utility with incredibly helpful passives (bang, wraith, lifeline) to champs where it's hard to understand if their abilities had any benefit at all (octane, mirage, crypto, bloodhound), the disparity in their utility is incredible. But the thing was, before the aggressive skill based matchmaking it didn't really matter who you played, because your player skill versus your opponents was the biggest predictor of your success, that felt rewarding.

It doesn't feel that way anymore. It feels as if I'm forced to play the meta to keep up with the lobbies I'm placed in. It feels that there's no place for crap characters, and that poor loot randomisation serves an early death sentence. The SBMM exacerbates all of the games issues, and diminishes any sense of accomplishment I can get by playing the game.

Not to mention the map. It's obvious Respawn wanted to minimise third parties by increasing the distance between everything, but it just leads to incredibly open spaces, and in a risk averse meta, that leads to some very dull gunfights. It lacks the intensity of season Kings Canyon, and I feel that the verticality (with many 3 and 4 story buildings) exacerbates many of the balance issues across the games roster of characters.

In season 2, ranked already has enough issues as it was. With slow, risk aversive gameplay that worked against why I fell in love with the game to begin with. I couldn't play many ranked games without becoming bored, and yet it feels as though I'm forced into the same thing over and over with season 3.

I can't even play with my friends any more because they get fucked six ways from sunday by players far beyond their skill level. Playing with a good friend earlier, he was hitting between 0 and 50 damage each game. That's not fun for him, and there's no place for us to go and play that lets us both have a good time. When I solo queue I just get put against pre-made predator teams because I guess the games algorithm decides as an individual I match their skill, but as a team, my group of randos definitely do not, we just get outplayed.

These are just my thoughts, I'm not trying to take away from the people who are still having fun with the game, but it's just not for me anymore.
 

Annihilo

Member
Sep 14, 2019
61
could not have layed out the problems better myself

the game is in a bad state and not fun anymore

the slow time between updates doesnt help
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,891
I've been trying to stick with this but I can't. I have over 20,000 kills from Seasons 1 and 2, but I'm just fed up with playing Apex. I'm done with the this game. I'm not looking forward to Season 4, I don't expect Respawn are taking the game in a direction that I'm interested in, and I'd rather quit now than continue to play a game that I no longer enjoy, only to burn out and quit later down the road anyway.

The awful map, the skill based matchmaking, the balance issues, it's all just so frustrating.

Every game I play is stacked with Apex predator, 20 bomb players. It's a complete sweat fest. I can see why I get matched into these lobbies, my KDR is still beyond 5.0 based on my season 1 and 2 stats, I get it, but I just don't enjoy being dragged into evenly skilled games in a game that's so RNG heavy. It just works against the fun factor of the battle royale genre.

When everyone is evenly skilled, those randomised factors become the bigger predictor of success. What armour do I have? What guns have I found? Did I drop on someone? It used to be the case that because player skill was also a variable, there was a fair chance of outplaying your odds.

This also exacerbates balance issues, half the champs in this game are borderline useless. Like quite literally, they range from having constant, automatic utility with incredibly helpful passives (bang, wraith, lifeline) to champs where it's hard to understand if their abilities had any benefit at all (octane, mirage, crypto, bloodhound), the disparity in their utility is incredible. But the thing was, before the aggressive skill based matchmaking it didn't really matter who you played, because your player skill versus your opponents was the biggest predictor of your success, that felt rewarding.

It doesn't feel that way anymore. It feels as if I'm forced to play the meta to keep up with the lobbies I'm placed in. It feels that there's no place for crap characters, and that poor loot randomisation serves an early death sentence. The SBMM exacerbates all of the games issues, and diminishes any sense of accomplishment I can get by playing the game.

Not to mention the map. It's obvious Respawn wanted to minimise third parties by increasing the distance between everything, but it just leads to incredibly open spaces, and in a risk averse meta, that leads to some very dull gunfights. It lacks the intensity of season Kings Canyon, and I feel that the verticality (with many 3 and 4 story buildings) exacerbates many of the balance issues across the games roster of characters.

In season 2, ranked already has enough issues as it was. With slow, risk aversive gameplay that worked against why I fell in love with the game to begin with. I couldn't play many ranked games without becoming bored, and yet it feels as though I'm forced into the same thing over and over with season 3.

I can't even play with my friends any more because they get fucked six ways from sunday by players far beyond their skill level. Playing with a good friend earlier, he was hitting between 0 and 50 damage each game. That's not fun for him, and there's no place for us to go and play that lets us both have a good time. When I solo queue I just get put against pre-made predator teams because I guess the games algorithm decides as an individual I match their skill, but as a team, my group of randos definitely do not, we just get outplayed.

These are just my thoughts, I'm not trying to take away from the people who are still having fun with the game, but it's just not for me anymore.
Well put. Couldn’t agree more. I could deal with the new map and shitty legend meta but the SBMM flat out killed the fun.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if EA’s execs forced SBMM on Respawn because the data shows that it helps retention but the fact is that this is a FREE game, with a high level of polish and it should not be seeing players drop off like this It should be a big warning shot to Respawn and EA. Maybe BR as a genre has peaked. I don’t know.

One thing is for sure - new players who love this game will eventually feel the SBMM kick in their matches and they will start to drop off too.
 

Papercuts

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,977
Way you phrase it make it sound like a bad thing. But this... it's bliss.
I wouldn't personally mind people cheating the system into a higher rank, but dashboarding has seen me having a lot of kills denied because of the guy just suddenly quitting the game. This shit happens every ranked game on high elo.
Yeah, that’s a really good thing to hear they’re hitting. Hope everyone who did that crap loses their dive trails and everything along with it.
 

Rental

Member
Oct 28, 2017
875
DotA is a free game and had sbmm in unranked for years? I highly doubt it's just ea doing this since it's something a lot of games use and will be using more in the future.

Main argument from me is the season is too long. Sure some legends are weaker than others but that's how these games work. They all can't be great. R6 is the same (tchanka anyone); however once the roster expands you can get more unique combos and characters that are viable. Respawn could do better at tweaking and changing abilities to shake things up more in a sensible way. I feel several legends that people don't rate can still be viable in matches. Yeah bloodhound can be weak but his Intel can swing an upcoming battle if you didn't know you were following a team into a cave. Caustic can be played differently than just letting his traps sit for teams to walk into. He can throw and detonate to secure revives and prevent pushes.

I think the key for this game to remain high with player counts will be the speed they put out legends. They need more than one per season. It's just too slow at the pace they are going. The leaked roster would take years at the rate they are releasing them. A bigger roster is needed to keep interest and eliminate the same combos at high play. Top steamers had more variety in player picks this season but it's still limited with this roster.

Map updates are going to be interesting. I hope we see changes to both on the next season and both added back. For ranked have a random rotation between the two. Unranked you can pick the map you want.
 

Chronospherics

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,506
Brighton
DotA is a free game and had sbmm in unranked for years? I highly doubt it's just ea doing this since it's something a lot of games use and will be using more in the future.

Main argument from me is the season is too long. Sure some legends are weaker than others but that's how these games work. They all can't be great. R6 is the same (tchanka anyone); however once the roster expands you can get more unique combos and characters that are viable. Respawn could do better at tweaking and changing abilities to shake things up more in a sensible way. I feel several legends that people don't rate can still be viable in matches. Yeah bloodhound can be weak but his Intel can swing an upcoming battle if you didn't know you were following a team into a cave. Caustic can be played differently than just letting his traps sit for teams to walk into. He can throw and detonate to secure revives and prevent pushes.

I think the key for this game to remain high with player counts will be the speed they put out legends. They need more than one per season. It's just too slow at the pace they are going. The leaked roster would take years at the rate they are releasing them. A bigger roster is needed to keep interest and eliminate the same combos at high play. Top steamers had more variety in player picks this season but it's still limited with this roster.

Map updates are going to be interesting. I hope we see changes to both on the next season and both added back. For ranked have a random rotation between the two. Unranked you can pick the map you want.
I think that SBMM is neccesary in some games but not others, as a result of the game design.

Take pool or snooker for instance, if you play that game with someone who is not at your skill level, then you won't get a turn. A bad player, fundamentally can never beat a good player at snooker, so that can get to frustration quickly, the match is decided on player skill alone and that skill feeds into a snowballing mechanic (where you get another shot if you successfully land a shot) which leads to a very unbalanced experience of the game across the two players. Not only did the other player lose, he didn't get to practice, that's where skill based matching is important.

In video games, you see that in some spaces, like strategy games, MOBAs, and the like. Without SBMM in a game like DOTA, the better player would just steamroll the new player, it stops being fun for anyone quickly. A player that's much worse would quickly be pushed out of their lane, as the better player snowballs, and then the lesser player is forced to experience the game for 20 more minutes. There comes a point where the lesser skilled player can't do anything meaningful to sway the match, their impact is nill, they can't practice, develop, or enjoy the game.

It comes down to
  • How high skill allows players to differentiate themselves from each other (can a bad player kill a good player?)
  • To which extent snowballing features in the game?
  • How much impact can a successful player have on an unsuccessful players experience? How long are players forced to endure through losses?
I think we can answer those questions for the battle royale genre as a whole using Apex as an example, the whole point is that everyone is placed on a relatively level playing field. Anyone can kill anyone, I can open a crate and get nothing while Billy-no-skill can open the crate next to me and find a Peacekeeper and a body shield.

Snowballing does feature in the game to a degree, as when good players kill other players they get more loot, but these resources can also be attained by searching the map. Snowballing doesn't bring you to victory any faster, a team that wins a game with 6 kills could easily have as good equipment as a team that spent the whole game searching for resources. Furthermore, if you die, it takes seconds to leave and get into another game, players are never forced to suffer through a negative experience.

I went on to Titanfall 2 instead of Apex last night, and it's just much easier to have a good time there. Every lobby has its share of good and bad players. Everyone feels free to mess around and test with different abilities, weapons, titans. It feels like a playground.

That playground analogy brings back memories of play as a kid. We would go down to the park and play a game of football or whatever with a random group of kids. Sometimes it felt unbalanced, sometimes it didn't, but it never prevented us from having a good time. Most importantly we could go whenever we wanted and just mess about, experiment, play. If you took that experience and told me that every time I turned up to the park, there would be an opposing team of evenly distributed skill waiting. I can see how that would have become boring very quickly.

That's the other issue for me I suppose. Skill based matchmaking isn't realistic to how people play and learn in the real world. In ranked it makes sense, in the same way that we have things like football leagues and such that ensure players of high skill are playing each other, but in everyday experiences you get to meet people of a whole range of skill levels and pick and choose what you take from it. Because of that, you get people that stand out, you get people that have the opportunity to teach you something, or you get to teach other people something. Imagine a conversation where all parties came into it with the same knowledge and information? Sharing strategies, skills and techniques, watching a player perform a crazy off the wall aerial that you could never do in rocket league, I think those moments are cool. They're the moments that keep me invested, and wanting to get better at the game.

People also act as though you can't have fun if a game isn't even. That you can't enjoy yourself playing a game if your KDR isn't 1:0, but I don't think that's true. Millions of Call of Duty players continue to play the game every day and yet more than half of them have ratios sitting below 1.0. Compelling games are engaging even when you aren't winning, compelling experiences allow players to invest in implicit victory states - such as 'doing better than the last game', 'capturing that specific objective' or even just 'getting a few kills with a particular gun' - even when the game tells them they're losing the match.
 
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Freedonia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
151
I've been trying to stick with this but I can't. I have over 20,000 kills from Seasons 1 and 2, but I'm just fed up with playing Apex. I'm done with the this game. I'm not looking forward to Season 4, I don't expect Respawn are taking the game in a direction that I'm interested in, and I'd rather quit now than continue to play a game that I no longer enjoy, only to burn out and quit later down the road anyway.

The awful map, the skill based matchmaking, the balance issues, it's all just so frustrating.

Every game I play is stacked with Apex predator, 20 bomb players. It's a complete sweat fest. I can see why I get matched into these lobbies, my KDR is still beyond 5.0 based on my season 1 and 2 stats, I get it, but I just don't enjoy being dragged into evenly skilled games in a game that's so RNG heavy. It just works against the fun factor of the battle royale genre.

When everyone is evenly skilled, those randomised factors become the bigger predictor of success. What armour do I have? What guns have I found? Did I drop on someone? It used to be the case that because player skill was also a variable, there was a fair chance of outplaying your odds.

This also exacerbates balance issues, half the champs in this game are borderline useless. Like quite literally, they range from having constant, automatic utility with incredibly helpful passives (bang, wraith, lifeline) to champs where it's hard to understand if their abilities had any benefit at all (octane, mirage, crypto, bloodhound), the disparity in their utility is incredible. But the thing was, before the aggressive skill based matchmaking it didn't really matter who you played, because your player skill versus your opponents was the biggest predictor of your success, that felt rewarding.

It doesn't feel that way anymore. It feels as if I'm forced to play the meta to keep up with the lobbies I'm placed in. It feels that there's no place for crap characters, and that poor loot randomisation serves an early death sentence. The SBMM exacerbates all of the games issues, and diminishes any sense of accomplishment I can get by playing the game.

Not to mention the map. It's obvious Respawn wanted to minimise third parties by increasing the distance between everything, but it just leads to incredibly open spaces, and in a risk averse meta, that leads to some very dull gunfights. It lacks the intensity of season Kings Canyon, and I feel that the verticality (with many 3 and 4 story buildings) exacerbates many of the balance issues across the games roster of characters.

In season 2, ranked already has enough issues as it was. With slow, risk aversive gameplay that worked against why I fell in love with the game to begin with. I couldn't play many ranked games without becoming bored, and yet it feels as though I'm forced into the same thing over and over with season 3.

I can't even play with my friends any more because they get fucked six ways from sunday by players far beyond their skill level. Playing with a good friend earlier, he was hitting between 0 and 50 damage each game. That's not fun for him, and there's no place for us to go and play that lets us both have a good time. When I solo queue I just get put against pre-made predator teams because I guess the games algorithm decides as an individual I match their skill, but as a team, my group of randos definitely do not, we just get outplayed.

These are just my thoughts, I'm not trying to take away from the people who are still having fun with the game, but it's just not for me anymore.
I agree completely, strict sbmm doesn't work very well in a game with so many random variables. I played a few matches with my Apex buddy during the weekend, and there were so many matches where we would have a bad set of loot from our drop, and then we'd proceed to get wiped by a predator squad that had better armor, R99's, Peacekeepers, etc. Matches like that are inherently frustrating when they come so often, but it was hard not to notice that this was less frequent in the Season 1/2 days, where you could have a bad set of loot and still fight back if you were more skilled than your opponent. With sbmm it just makes the randomness more annoying.
 

Chronospherics

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Verified
Oct 28, 2017
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Brighton
Well put. Couldn’t agree more. I could deal with the new map and shitty legend meta but the SBMM flat out killed the fun.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if EA’s execs forced SBMM on Respawn because the data shows that it helps retention but the fact is that this is a FREE game, with a high level of polish and it should not be seeing players drop off like this It should be a big warning shot to Respawn and EA. Maybe BR as a genre has peaked. I don’t know.

One thing is for sure - new players who love this game will eventually feel the SBMM kick in their matches and they will start to drop off too.
No doubt. SBMM sacrifices the experiences of Apex's long term players for the sake of new users, while neglecting the fact that those new users become long term players who will be equally frustrated by its systems. It's a false economy, in my opinion.

When developers speak about retention you often see it mapped as 7 day, 14 day, 30 day, 90 day retention figures, and in those measures I'm sure SBMM paints a positive picture, but I think the impact on the long-term player base and the community at large is likely very difficult to measure because it's split across players with such a broad spectrum of time spent on the game.
 

Rental

Member
Oct 28, 2017
875
Long term is the updates. That is what brings people back or stick around from month to month. That is the game and balance a developer needs for long term success. I could see them expanding the range to have a bigger pool in unranked but not to do away with SBMM completely though. Also what stress is it losing in unranked? I don't go into unranked with any worries. I just play with no headset and nothing changes if I die quick. No points lost. Unranked is where you go if you want people quitting when downed anyway. It's still not a serious mode at all compared to rank where people play the game until the end. At least with SBMM you will have teammates that are not brand new which was a common complaint before. New players will be able to learn the game at a pace to become long term players as mentioned in the football comparison above. You can move up or down in the football (soccer) world.

Maybe when playing with friends in unranked Respawn should implement an average for the team and place you in whatever queue that average would be. This would give servers a mix in skill as well. Yes it could be abused; however in theory a Smurf account should move up quick if they are destroying lobbies and placed appropriately.

I'm not arguing it's perfect but tweaks can be done with SBMM implemented to make it better. I'm sure with the data they have they can get to better implementation of it.
 

Chronospherics

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Oct 28, 2017
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Brighton
Long term is the updates. That is what brings people back or stick around from month to month. That is the game and balance a developer needs for long term success. I could see them expanding the range to have a bigger pool in unranked but not to do away with SBMM completely though. Also what stress is it losing in unranked? I don't go into unranked with any worries. I just play with no headset and nothing changes if I die quick. No points lost. Unranked is where you go if you want people quitting when downed anyway. It's still not a serious mode at all compared to rank where people play the game until the end. At least with SBMM you will have teammates that are not brand new which was a common complaint before. New players will be able to learn the game at a pace to become long term players as mentioned in the football comparison above. You can move up or down in the football (soccer) world.

Maybe when playing with friends in unranked Respawn should implement an average for the team and place you in whatever queue that average would be. This would give servers a mix in skill as well. Yes it could be abused; however in theory a Smurf account should move up quick if they are destroying lobbies and placed appropriately.

I'm not arguing it's perfect but tweaks can be done with SBMM implemented to make it better. I'm sure with the data they have they can get to better implementation of it.
The only implementation of it that I could be satisfied with is one that is transparent to the player. Otherwise there's a system behind the scenes that continuously determines whether I have good or bad matches. But if it was transparent to the player you'd simply have people quitting because the game would be telling most of the community they were playing in a low skill bracket, that's the reality. It's about pumping up the egos of low skill players while masking the fact that the game is matching them with equally garbage players.

Also, when playing with friends implementing an 'average' is exactly the problem. That type of system does not work. If my friend has 100 skill, I have 800, and the game puts us in a lobby where the average skill is 450, he is still miles away from the skill level of the players in that lobby, there's not going to be a player in that lobby that he stands a good chance against. There's no way to get unmatched skilled parties in decent lobbies with skill based matchmaking on. That's why many ranked games simply restrict the range of skill levels that you're able to play with.

Also, it's not about caring about the match outcome, it's about whether or not I enjoy the game. Playing in the skill bracket I'm in just isn't fun for me much of the time. It's hard work and because of the lack of transparency, there's nothing to earn. It's like I'm playing ranked with no rewards. It's fine as an option to pursue that in the ranked, but it's good to be able to escape from that and play a BR game in a more natural setting, where RNG isn't the strongest influence on the match.
 
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Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,499
Also, when playing with friends implementing an 'average' is exactly the problem. That type of system does not work. If my friend has 100 skill, I have 800, and the game puts us in a lobby where the average skill is 450, he is still miles away from the skill level of the players in that lobby, there's not going to be a player in that lobby that he stands a good chance against. There's no way to get unmatched skilled parties in decent lobbies with skill based matchmaking on. That's why many ranked games simply restrict the range of skill levels that you're able to play with.
The 450 lobby is still better than an 800 lobby, which is what Apex does in both modes afaik.
 

Chronospherics

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Oct 28, 2017
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The 450 lobby is still better than an 800 lobby, which is what Apex does in both modes afaik.
0 kills is 0 kills. What I mean is, the difference in there skill is still significant enough that they wouldn't be able to have an impact in that game. That's not going to be any fun, and most matches are going to end with 0 kills and very little damage.

That's what happens in Overwatch and Siege too. I've played Siege with a guy who got dragged into my lobbies and could not get a single kill for four hours straight. It doesn't matter if the lobbies skill level is slightly depreciated because that players there, if it's still far beyond his, it's going to be really rough.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,891
I think splitting parties and solos is fair. I also think segregating new players until they're performing at a level that indicates they know how to play the game makes a lot of sense.
Anything would be better than what we have right now. I can’t believe Respawn still hasn’t even addressed the fact there’s SBMM yet. The Apex reddit was freaking out over it for a month. The least they can do is let us know if they’re going to tune the system based off our feedback. So many people leaving the game for COD or fucking Roblox (what the hell is that game anyways?) that a little community outreach would be a welcomed thing.