Apparently, you can easily access the PlayStation Classic emulator settings

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,135
seriously tho, the idea that this becomes a better product by pugging in a keyboard and pressing esc is so hilarious.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,281
Detailed thread (in French, that I'll translate) about what is happening with this mess:
https://twitter.com/Zetsuboushitta/status/1069924696647454722
Essentially:
- The system is running on Android using YOCTO
- The emulator is indeed PCSX-reArmed slightly modified but on a very old base, very badly optimized and badly implemented likely due to a lack of time
- Debug mode wasn't removed meaning that you can access it with K75 type Corsair keyboards or different types of Logitech keyboards
- The "60Hz" mode of the debug settings are just interpolating 50hz into 60hz by duplicating frames. aka it's still trash and isn't close to the original experience
- It seems easy to connect the console to a PC and load PC HUBs in it but as of now not to change the games themselves
- Hacking potential seems limited and overall pointless
Goddamn what a disaster, and the thread even had me change my mind about getting one.
 

andshrew

Member
Oct 27, 2017
149
If it was even "slightly modified", we would see contribution from Sony, since that project is under GPL.
The full modified source code has already been published by Sony here. Most notable changes include many changes for applying emulator settings for specific games, and the games lists indicates they were testing with a much broader range of games that what made the final product. There's obviously also a lot of changes around the interface.

https://doc.dl.playstation.net/doc/psclassic-oss/PCSX_ReARMed.html

All open source software is listed here: https://doc.dl.playstation.net/doc/psclassic-oss
 

RPG_Fanatic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,000
Wow, I am so glad I lost interest in this product after the game list was revealed. The fact that the debug menu is so easy to access with the right keyboard is hilarious to me.
 

famikon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,294
ベラルーシ
The full modified source code has already been published by Sony here. Most notable changes include many changes for applying emulator settings for specific games, and the games lists indicates they were testing with a much broader range of games that what made the final product. There's obviously also a lot of changes around the interface.

https://doc.dl.playstation.net/doc/psclassic-oss/PCSX_ReARMed.html

All open source software is listed here: https://doc.dl.playstation.net/doc/psclassic-oss
Oh, thanks, I was looking for this.
 

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,070
Might explain how it could fail at emulating such simple games with a competent emulator.
Possible, especially in combination with some mediocre SoC components. It certainly shouldn't be a problem emulating some 20 year old games with a solid performance to this extend, badly optimized emulator disregarded.

seriously tho, the idea that this becomes a better product by pugging in a keyboard and pressing esc is so hilarious.
Almost "Have you tried turn it off and on again" level, imo.

Still, i really want to know what difference to other keyboard this Corsair keyboards send that makes the debug mode available.
 

KORNdog

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,087
this kind of bodes well for hacking. i'm curious how far it could go though. like, could we see a situation where the entire emulator and games could be swapped out for something better? because if that's a possibility it's not that bad of a deal seeing as a pi, 2 controllers and a good quality playstation shell would run up costs similar to this thing anyway.
 

pulsemyne

Member
Oct 30, 2017
918
The teardowns of the system indicate that it really is as cheap as possible. Lowest power ARM chip in it, which I think might actually be less powerful than the mali chip in SNES/NES mini.

EDIT: Sorry seems like I am wrong and the classics chip is more powerful.
 
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Seik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,741
Québec City
The teardowns of the system indicate that it really is as cheap as possible. Lowest power ARM chip in it, which I think might actually be less powerful than the mali chip in SNES/NES mini.
In the Digital Foundry review, John states that the components are better than those found on the NES/SNES Classic, he even tells that those could capable to provide decent emulation.

The problem with the Playstation Classic seems to be Software related.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
2,731
So, it doesn't matter. Dark1x, save yourself some money and don't buy a keyboard :P

This is the biggest disappointment I've had with a Playstation product ever. I sure hope the higher ups at Sony are unhappy about it.
I didn't. I literally took the PSC to the store, tried it on every keyboard they had and discovered that none of them worked (outside of some buttons triggering things like sleep mode or going back to the menu).
 
Oct 25, 2017
550
I didn't. I literally took the PSC to the store, tried it on every keyboard they had and discovered that none of them worked (outside of some buttons triggering things like sleep mode or going back to the menu).
Ouch. A poor, poor effort by Sony. I'm disappointed, but not overly so.

I'm only following along to see how this will shake out as far as hacking it. I'll stick with my modded PSTV and PSP, and regular PS2/3 to play older games.

I have to find a copy of Intelligent Qube posthaste.
 

wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,425
For the cost of the games, it is a bargain, just like the NES and SNES classic. buying a PS1 and all of those games would cost you more than $100, even now.
I don’t think the comparison quite works for several reasons.

1) The NES and SNES Mini actually feature a decent emulator and have a nice array of bonus features the PS Classic lacks (CRT filters, different save states, rewind option). The Minis are competent devices to play the old games, the PS Classic isn’t. What’s the point of getting a relatively good deal on an array of games when, if you actually care about emulation quality, you’re just waiting to be able to replace them with versions that are using a better emulator?

2) The NES and SNES Mini’s line ups were actually well-received. On the other hand, hardly anyone seems to be particularly satisfied with the games that are included in the PS Classic. You get a good deal on 20 games, but what’s the point if you wouldn’t have otherwise purchased most of them either way?

3) In addition to the line up being somewhat lacking, they even put the worst versions of some of the games on it. That’s kinda a combination of 1 and 2: If you care about quality, these aren’t the versions you want to play or buy.
 

mute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,428
Am i the only person who thinks they should have, and easily could have, given us the PlayStation Classic in the form of a Vita TV in a special playstation classic shell, with these 20 games pre-loaded, but also the ability to pop into PSN and buy more PS1 games. Heck they could have left in the PSP and Vita compatibility and it would have flown off store shelves. All it needed was a shell that looked like a classic PSX and the classic controller.

Instead they probably spend a few hundred thousand designing this piece of garbage that ultimately cost them a few pennies less in the short term, but millions more in the long term.

Missed opportunity.
They may have run into parts obsolescence issues if they based if off the Vita.
 

MChapp1867

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,234
It's been like 24 hours since the thing came out, give it time.

This is only one guy.
You gotta love how desperate people are to crack this thing.

That's not a criticism either, I'm in the same boat and my purchase hinges on it. I think fundmanetally and in theory this is a super appealing product, just handled and packaged badly enough that people still want it, subject to being able to fix it.
 

Aaron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,901
You gotta love how desperate people are to crack this thing.

That's not a criticism either, I'm in the same boat and my purchase hinges on it. I think fundmanetally and in theory this is a super appealing product, just handled and packaged badly enough that people still want it, subject to being able to fix it.
I was seriously so excited for this thing, even with a less than ideal lineup. They really screwed it up and the worst part is it all seemed very avoidable.

Even if all we can do is switch the PAL ISOs for NTSC and fine-tune the emulator, that would make this an instant buy for me.
 
Apr 12, 2018
1,035
If classic mini consoles - and the PlayStation Classic especially - are any indication of what the future of games preservation entails, I think I might be tempted to try emulation again for the first time since, like, 2005.
 

Zutrax

Member
Oct 31, 2017
737
You're kidding me, the reason I cancelled my pre-order was due to the PAL version debacle. And you're telling me with a simple keyboard command I can easily switch over to NTSC?

So disregarding anything related to cracking, I'm most curious as to whether NTSC versions of the games actually run well. After watching Digital Foundry's video, it seemed like the theory was the games couldn't consistently hit 60FPS so capping at 50 with the PAL versions may have been a solution. I want to know if that truly is the case. If the games actually run fine, maybe I'll just order this thing then and tinker around with the backend.
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,937
Likely going to keep my unit because it looks great next to my NES and SNES but they screwed this one bad. Hoping something good come from it.

Until then I will continue to enjoy PS1 gaming on the greatest emulation machine in existence, my 3.65 ENSO Vita.
 

KalBalboa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,169
Massachusetts
Am i the only person who thinks they should have, and easily could have, given us the PlayStation Classic in the form of a Vita TV in a special playstation classic shell, with these 20 games pre-loaded, but also the ability to pop into PSN and buy more PS1 games. Heck they could have left in the PSP and Vita compatibility and it would have flown off store shelves. All it needed was a shell that looked like a classic PSX and the classic controller.

Instead they probably spend a few hundred thousand designing this piece of garbage that ultimately cost them a few pennies less in the short term, but millions more in the long term.

Missed opportunity.
Vita TV's scaling was pretty poor, wasn't it?
 

KTroopA

Member
Oct 27, 2017
715
London, UK
Detailed thread (in French, that I'll translate) about what is happening with this mess:
https://twitter.com/Zetsuboushitta/status/1069924696647454722
Essentially:
- The system is running on Android using YOCTO
- The emulator is indeed PCSX-reArmed slightly modified but on a very old base, very badly optimized and badly implemented likely due to a lack of time
- Debug mode wasn't removed meaning that you can access it with K75 type Corsair keyboards or different types of Logitech keyboards
- The "60Hz" mode of the debug settings are just interpolating 50hz into 60hz by duplicating frames. aka it's still trash and isn't close to the original experience
- It seems easy to connect the console to a PC and load PC HUBs in it but as of now not to change the games themselves
- Hacking potential seems limited and overall pointless
 

pulsemyne

Member
Oct 30, 2017
918
Sorry everyone resetera is being a bit silly at the moment.
Anyway, I was wrong and the machine is indeed more powerful than the snes mini. However, it seems like the emulator they used really isn't suited to low power systems. Makes you appreciate NERDS efforts with the snes and nes minis.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,839
New York
You gotta love how desperate people are to crack this thing.

That's not a criticism either, I'm in the same boat and my purchase hinges on it. I think fundmanetally and in theory this is a super appealing product, just handled and packaged badly enough that people still want it, subject to being able to fix it.
I was seriously so excited for this thing, even with a less than ideal lineup. They really screwed it up and the worst part is it all seemed very avoidable.
I think there's two appealing positions for this product regardless:

  1. Non-casual or Casual gamer - Nostalgia. They might not play video games heavily but did happen to play the Playstation 1 and see this product out in the wild, boom, purchase. All cause of memories from back in the day etc. The box does enough advertising for the product and its already appealing enough for them to be like "I need this in my life". These might also be people who don't understand things that an enthusiast like us here on ERA do have knowledge about. They may also need heavily read Kotaku, IGN and the rest of those types of sites so they might not know the negativity behind it on forums etc.
  2. Enthusiast - We understand that this product is *not* great by any means, we understand the ROMS aren't the running the way we want them to run and that this might be half assed essentially. *BUT* we want this product to succeed enough where we want to fix it ourselves and find workarounds to switch ROMs etc.
 

LuigiV

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,351
Perth, Australia
Detailed thread (in French, that I'll translate) about what is happening with this mess:
https://twitter.com/Zetsuboushitta/status/1069924696647454722
Essentially:
- The system is running on Android using YOCTO
- The emulator is indeed PCSX-reArmed slightly modified but on a very old base, very badly optimized and badly implemented likely due to a lack of time
- Debug mode wasn't removed meaning that you can access it with K75 type Corsair keyboards or different types of Logitech keyboards
- The "60Hz" mode of the debug settings are just interpolating 50hz into 60hz by duplicating frames. aka it's still trash and isn't close to the original experience
- It seems easy to connect the console to a PC and load PC HUBs in it but as of now not to change the games themselves
- Hacking potential seems limited and overall pointless
Oh so it is Android, not GNU Linux? I had a suspicion but it's sad to see it confirmed. Well in that case it's back to the shop my unopened system goes. This thing isn't even worth hacking.
 

Bomblord

Member
Jan 11, 2018
3,085
Someone smarter than me explain how an esc command from one keyboard model can trigger this but not another.
 

alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,777
Please tell me Sony outsourced this. Developing this product in house is just embarrassing.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Detailed thread (in French, that I'll translate) about what is happening with this mess:
https://twitter.com/Zetsuboushitta/status/1069924696647454722
Essentially:
- The system is running on Android using YOCTO
- The emulator is indeed PCSX-reArmed slightly modified but on a very old base, very badly optimized and badly implemented likely due to a lack of time
- Debug mode wasn't removed meaning that you can access it with K75 type Corsair keyboards or different types of Logitech keyboards
- The "60Hz" mode of the debug settings are just interpolating 50hz into 60hz by duplicating frames. aka it's still trash and isn't close to the original experience
- It seems easy to connect the console to a PC and load PC HUBs in it but as of now not to change the games themselves
- Hacking potential seems limited and overall pointless
Absolute garbage Sony.

What a piss take.
 

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,683
Detailed thread (in French, that I'll translate) about what is happening with this mess:
https://twitter.com/Zetsuboushitta/status/1069924696647454722
Essentially:
- The system is running on Android using YOCTO
- The emulator is indeed PCSX-reArmed slightly modified but on a very old base, very badly optimized and badly implemented likely due to a lack of time
- Debug mode wasn't removed meaning that you can access it with K75 type Corsair keyboards or different types of Logitech keyboards
- The "60Hz" mode of the debug settings are just interpolating 50hz into 60hz by duplicating frames. aka it's still trash and isn't close to the original experience
- It seems easy to connect the console to a PC and load PC HUBs in it but as of now not to change the games themselves
- Hacking potential seems limited and overall pointless
Isn’t that last point more of conjecture? It’s been out one day and not all options have been explored. If the debug menu was accessed, perhaps the is can to and an exploit can be created that can be inserted via the usb slots and a flash drive
 

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
702
Honestly this is just a race to mod the thing at this point. Once the first person breaks out and is able to make some custom firmware it’s all over, and we can really see what possible with the thing.

The main benefit of it is those 20 games, some of which are quite pricy in the used game market.
 

no1

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Apr 27, 2018
954
Except the initial question was about emulation not backwards compatibility, unless I didn't click back far enough
At a certain point don't those become the same thing? In the case of the 360, and Xbox One both of those had "Backwards Compatability", but it was always through emulation of the Xbox OG. Just like Xbox Ones emulation of the Xbox 360.
 

CatAssTrophy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,070
Texas
Disappointing. I think in a few months if this thing is easily found on shelves I may grab one in case there's a breakthrough with modding, or if there's no chance for a second revision.

Worst case scenario I find a tutorial on how to remove the innards and swap it out with a Raspberry Pi and just enjoy the official chassis and controllers.

Edit: I did watch LGR's video yesterday, but I've yet to see any premade replica consoles that don't look like garbage. I had a friend preaching to me about making my own retro consoles but when she showed me hers they were super bad quality, and I don't think they'll improve much for a while- at least not with current/common 3D printer tech. I know, paying $100 just for the case and controllers is expensive but I really enjoy tinkering so that could make it worth it for me personally.
 

Burai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
621
I'm not sure it'll ever be decent if it runs on Android. Some libretro contributors were complaining on twitter over the weekend about the inconsistent performance they get out of Android when porting to it. Frame rates and audio/input latency all over the place due to background processes kicking in and out, inherent to the OS.

Unless someone ports a replacement Linux-based OS to it, ala Retropie, we'll probably not be getting a stable, consistent framerate out of this thing ever.