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Arbitrary code execution achieved on Switch firmware 4.x [Mod Edit - Read OP]
- Thread starter Deleted member 15428
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It throttles while the gpu is taxed isn't that it? I don't think the gpu would be particularly taxed when emulating GameCube, so the cpu probably runs much faster than the Switch
I see what you mean :)
I understand, but isnt this more common practice? I mean, i'm not an expert by any means, but i'm under the impression that many of the bugs come from "external" sources (like Webkit, ARM, FreeBSD, Nvidia etc.). Like with PS4, Webkit has been used in every hack. Would the PS4 be untouched by now if it wasnt for Webkit? You mentioned in a PS4 thread about the 4.05 hack that Sony's security of late has been terrible, but Sony doesnt make Webkit. Is it Sony's or Nintendo's fault for the security issues in these cases?
Yeah, there was some problem that a number that was suppose to be random didnt end up being random afterall. I dont know much about it to be honest, no idea if it was an oversight or something like that, but it was fixed quickly, so i'm not sure if it was done by actual design. Earlier i just wanted to point out that the comic used was more for comical effect, not that it was litterally a number 4 (not saying you were saying this, but i've seen someone who think this is the case) :) I think the comic used in the PS3 hack presentation originates from this website: https://xkcd.com/221 (that is the comic being used at least). Archive.org has a page archived from 2007 for this link, while the PS3 hack happened in late 2010.
Most of these things are open-source so Sony and Nintendo are free to patch in security improvements if needed.
If you had full hardware access, then you could likely also adjust the CPU/GPU clock balance for emulation.
(If, as widely speculated, the CPU clocks are a energy consumption rather than stability choice)
It's almost like there is more than one person here. Logic isn't your strongest subject I take.
Nice. I have an extra Switch reserved for homebrew emulators. Can't wait to play all my favorite Gameboy/Gameboy Advance games again.
If a software hack that permits to run pirated software without a hardware level mod is released in 2018, this will instantly kill the indie scene and any chances of seeing the most niche Japanese games translated to English. Piracy doesn't affect big hitters such as Pokemon that will be doing good numbers because parents buying the game for their kids.
This is the same situation of Wii again. Hardcore oriented games such as 'No More Heroes', mainly appeal to the well informed public who use video game forums, so they know how to hack their systems. In Wii, major titles keep doing great numbers. The one that bombed were the niche titles, 'Little King's Story', 'MadWorld', 'Sin & Punishment 2' to name a few.
Because of this, in the late 3DS years, even with a bigger installed base, we saw much more Japanese niche games released in Vita and translated to English. Due to the Vita hacks limited to an older firmware.
So these are terrible news for the future of Switch's library.
If you release a hack that is hard to implement because it requires to alter the hardware with a chip, like in the PS2 days or with 360, this will increase the sales of the hardware without damaging too much the sales of the software. But if you have a hack as easy to implement as the ones in Dreamcast or Wii, this effectively kills the future software lineup.
This is the same situation of Wii again. Hardcore oriented games such as 'No More Heroes', mainly appeal to the well informed public who use video game forums, so they know how to hack their systems. In Wii, major titles keep doing great numbers. The one that bombed were the niche titles, 'Little King's Story', 'MadWorld', 'Sin & Punishment 2' to name a few.
Because of this, in the late 3DS years, even with a bigger installed base, we saw much more Japanese niche games released in Vita and translated to English. Due to the Vita hacks limited to an older firmware.
So these are terrible news for the future of Switch's library.
If you release a hack that is hard to implement because it requires to alter the hardware with a chip, like in the PS2 days or with 360, this will increase the sales of the hardware without damaging too much the sales of the software. But if you have a hack as easy to implement as the ones in Dreamcast or Wii, this effectively kills the future software lineup.
Then Nintendo better release some infomation regarding VC soon.
Wii U was hacked day one IIRC.
3DS is broken way, way, way beyond anything you'd dream on on PSP. Absolutely no way for Nintendo to patch this.
(Doesn't seem to have affected sales for the system, go figure).
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OP
SciresM is working on a Custom Firmware: https://gbatemp.net/threads/atmosphere-nx-custom-firmware-in-development-by-sciresm.496832
Just a reminder
- Please refrain from making wide generalizations about people who practice homebrew.
- Encouraging piracy is against the ToS. Do not state that is is fine to pirate video games in any way.
Thank you for your cooperation.
- Please refrain from making wide generalizations about people who practice homebrew.
- Encouraging piracy is against the ToS. Do not state that is is fine to pirate video games in any way.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Nintendo has the liberty to decide its own rhythm in releases, and how they want to do the marketing for each release. It's not as simple as to releasing a game or releasing a new feature. Nintendo's incredible classic lineup is one of their highlights, and they have invested hundred of million of dollars between the decades to keep these titles relevant today, sometimes investing in new releases for the most niche titles only to complain their fans.
They are doing the correct movement by increasing the value of their classic library, by using heavily marketed releases as the Mini lineup of consoles. Eventually, they will put their classic lineup in Switch. And they will accompany this action with a heavy investment in marketing and a well studied schedule.
And if you don't share the same idea as Nintendo regarding business decisions, this don't give you any moral or ethical arguments to devaluate their IPs through piracy.
You ok? You seem unnecessarily antagonistic towards this
You really care what people do with devices they paid for and don't affect you?
You realize you can still upgrade your firmware whenever?
Stil not what fail0verflow achieved but decent enough.
If they can get retroarch running at a certain point, I might buy a switch. Sadly Vita was a disappointment in terms of performance and used ones with the right firmware were hard to get but this here is a different situation.
If they can get retroarch running at a certain point, I might buy a switch. Sadly Vita was a disappointment in terms of performance and used ones with the right firmware were hard to get but this here is a different situation.
Because if it does get blown wide open and the general public finds it easy enough to do it absolutely will effect everyone?
I'm not contrary to video game emulation. But this user responded a well-argumented message about the implications not of emulation, but of a hack that permits to pirate more recent games, by deviating the conversation to the virtual console argument. If you are not happy with what's offering Nintendo Switch, it's as easy as to not buy one. If you want to run emulators, you have pretty fantastic options in the market, such as the GPD Win. By using the argument of emulation, you can't open the doors to a thing that will damage the future of the software library.
I really hope this stuff doesn't hurt Switch third party support. It seems like Nintendo is finally in a decent place after years of lackluster third party support. But if piracy gets bad, third parties might pull support.
I really hope I'm just paranoid.
I really hope I'm just paranoid.
You truly believe homebrew led to the collapse of the PSP?
not the shift to mobile phones and turnaround if the Nintendo DS, with an industry that can't support 2 handhelds
As proved by the later failure of the vita which to my knowledge has no piracy issues?
Haven't turned my vita on in like 2 years so I am out of the loop on that
Wuu wasnt hacked until a few years ago, simpily because most people didnt care. 3ds though was pretty quick and pretty substantial
Wii U was hacked day one IIRC.
3DS is broken way, way, way beyond anything you'd dream on on PSP. Absolutely no way for Nintendo to patch this.
(Doesn't seem to have affected sales for the system, go figure).
Not going to be worth it since you'd burn a ton of performance for games rendering at 900/1080p but ultimately getting a worse frame rate than when portable.
(Example: BotW)
Retroarch works already, GBA, NES, SNES all run fine, just no hardware acceleration for 3D games yet.
I know it's not all malicious but I can't help but feel a little miffed whenever I read about stuff like this. Piracy aside (which can be damaging to indie devs where people are generally less willing to put money towards their games in the first place, especially on a system they're thriving on), Hacking and cheating in online games comes to mind. Yeah the people behind this project may not have malicious intentions but once it's out in the open there will be a few who will have and will take advantage. Just takes a few of them to ruin the experience for everyone. Really hope this is fixed in the next "stability update". Hope Nintendo will lock people who aren't on the latest version out of online components as well.
I've never seen a device that's as hacked allowed online anyways. Don't you have to be on latest official firmware to sign in?
That was always the drawback to cracking psp was it not?
If you played Splatoon 1 or Mario Kart Wii online in their twilight you'd know this isn't always the case haha
edit: the official firmware thing yeah maybe. That does help mitigate things... by the way is there actually a source which proves piracy was directly damaging the psp? Not condoning that stuff at all btw just curious, because DS had a big piracy problem too but it still sold gangbusters
Hopefully this lights a fire under Nintendo's ass with regards to virtual console. If you can get homebrew emulators by the time VC is out there's no way I'm buying from Nintendo, I'll just emulate all my own games. Absolutely love playing my Gamecube games on the Wii U gamepad, the Switch would be a different level entirely.
As for VC, how can they be taking this long? They may end up leaving a whole bunch of money on the table.
As for VC, how can they be taking this long? They may end up leaving a whole bunch of money on the table.
Never played a wii but that's interesting
On switch you have to be right?
I'm not sure actually. I'd assume so, only makes sense after all
Also if you're online it'd update automatically so I think this has to be the case
I think they want to release their VC (which Reggie refuses to refer to that way) alongside their Online service as a sort of freebie you get when you sign up. That's what they announced last year though it looked as if it was all NES games I believe. And they have emulated GC and Wii on the X1 chip for the Shield (to distribute their old games on there in China) so we know it's possible. Also there's FLOG and the common menu between the NeoGeo and Arcade Archives stuff so we know the groundwork is in place for VC. They are just waiting to play their cards. As you said maybe this will light the fire under their ass and make them actually play them sooner than later.
Mixed feelings about this. On one hand, it will be cool to have homebrew apps on the Switch since it's such an amazing portable platform, but on the other hand I hope the potential for piracy doesn't deter indie devs from supporting the system
Right, but the question remains why it's taking so long. One and a half years post-launch to get your online service up and running is insane.
I really hope it's that they're scrambling to improve it after the backlash. I really want to believe when they release it it will have cloud saves and built-in voice chat (the app can go screw itself, convert it into splatnet or just make it optional) and a party system and it'll be everything we were waiting for. But alas it's Nintendo and online and all that will probably remain a distant dream. Though I can imagine they had to be tweaking it somehow for it to be delayed. After all that's what happened with AC Pocket Camp.
It's a good time for having open access to your hardware, Vita (FW 3.67, so the last official one) seems to have been hacked as well
Not always the case. Hackers are able to spoof the firmware, making the console think it's running the latest firmware, allowing online play. That's how it worked on PS3 at least.
An overclock will likely be the better option.
An OC wouldn't change the graphics configuration, but it would improve all games that use dynamic resolution.
Nice to see progress being made so soon. If we get anything like what CemU is then it will be a sight to behold. BOTW is glorious in 4k/60FPS.
Sony's bugs are entirely of their own making. The WebKit is just *a* entry point (of multiple), but the core exploits on 4.05 (and those on 5.x) are because of Sony's own bugs in the kernel they wrote for their own ASLR (for example of one of several current and long running screw ups), allowing you to defeat it and break out.
The USB is also rather screwed up on the PS4 as there have been now, multiple payloaders that work entirely through the USB.
Its likely just telephoned from bias of 4 into "lol only 4".
Yeah, i agree. For example, Webkit on PS4 and Switch is sandboxed, but if the security isnt done right, its possible to break out of this sandbox. Not always an easy task. I was just wondering/talking whos the biggest reason for these hacks.
What do you mean with "their own ASRL"? PS4 is based on FreeBSD and it has custom stuff as well done by Sony. Bugs that are found in FreeBSD might also therefor be applied to PS4. Nintendo uses their own OS (not sure what its based on), its not something that they've gotten from Nvidia. Theres much custom code running in the Switch in regards to security. Its the same here as far as i know, they used the bugs caused by Nvidia as an entrypoint to be able to tear down how the Switch works. Then they can find exploits that allows access to either userland and/or kernel.
Same thing regarding USB, what do you mean with this? How is the USB screwed on PS4?
The 4 only comes from that comic, as far as i know :) I dont think there as an actual 4 in place, or how do you mean?
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FreeBSD is just the base this is like saying 'Linux', Sony wrote almost all of its own OS up from that base. You can look to the various write ups from fail0verflow on how many different ways Sony's fork of FreeBSD is... weirdly dumb in its securities. One of the biggest issues as was recently documented, was that the system returned a text file for a crashdump allowing for f0f to reconstruct the entire kernel code.
Nintendo's OS is based on nothing but Nintendo's own work. The Horizon OS in the Switch is a 3DS fork and complete re-write. All the beating the 3DS took is why the Switch's kernel is damn near impervious, its been running a long, long gambit of security tests by the community haha.
The bugs in the Switch are hardware/driver related, which is a very different entry point from usual but its also a near necessity because there's no currently know way to defeat Nintendo's own security monitor and kernel. For the Switch, we're hijacking nVidia's bad code to achieve ACE, not Nintendo's. Nintendo's code is kind of stranded after the hardware itself is compromised. This is why said, right now its largely Nintendo patching out nVidia's vulnerabilities.
For how much of a crapshoot nVidia's software is, they've done a pretty good job. The next firmware is likely (or strongly believed) to break almost all of the current exploit chains.
Yes, that's what I mean. Its telephoned as in the message has become confused and muddled by things like a comic making a grandstanding on '4'.