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Are "Ironic" Western Visual Novels hurting the VN Genre?
- Thread starter Jawmuncher
- Start date
While Ace Attorney didn't create a gateway effect for me, 999 sure did, leading me into Steins;Gate and Fata Morgana, and I fully intend on continuing down the rabbit hole.
This.
Even in this forum people have no idea that awesome VN's exist. Today the term is being used like "walking simulator".
Does Doki Doki Literature Club count? Only popular one that came to mind due to how meta it got.
You say there are "a lot of tweets" about this...but it just seems like you made a thread about 3 angry "im a serious gamer and this my serious gamer genre!!!!!" tweets, OP.
Sure, if you're unable to enjoy or appreciate something until it has been ordained by the Almighty Gaming Press.
two things:
first, hatoful boyfriend is beloved because it's a knowing parody of genre tropes and foibles made by people who clearly know about the genre. the stuff people have gripes with is far more cynical: games like this KFC marketing tie in are far more mocking, as if the idea of a game where you talk to people and read stuff with romantic element sounds is absurd on its face. it's the same kind of difference between a rap parody like CB4 and people who still think rappers say "for shizzle." you can tell who is lampooning something they're familiar with and who is just an outsider leaping on something they think is weird and different.
secondly the emphasis on dating being the only thing that happens in a VN is just a really boring joke. it's a much wider genre than outsiders give it credit for, with tons of excellent titles in many other genres like horror, mystery, comedy, and so on and so forth. people in this thread aren't wrong when they're griping about thousand year old dragon children being a problematic and shitty thing that appears in the genre, but that's about as fair a thing to hang your opinion of the entire genre on as it would be to write off first person shooters as all being bigoted because of brutal doom and ion fury. visual novel is a very, very, VERY wide genre net that a huge amount of people appreciate for things like butterfly soup or kings of dragon pass. the genre isn't beyond reproach, there's lots—lots!!!—of fucked up shit out there, but that's no different from basically any other genre.
anyway none of what i'm saying here is outlandish. i think literally everyone here has a genre or hobby or whatever they're intimately familiar with that they would be annoyed to see generalizations of. "all shooters are for psychopaths" "rap is just guys talking about money and bitches" "sports fans are all meathead jocks" etc etc. none of these things are true and you'd rightfully find any serious opinions or attempts at humor leaning on them to be lame and tiresome, because they are. "visual novels are all just wacky loser dating sims!" is the exact same boring bullshit
It has no real effect. The audience for VNs tends to be heavily dedicated, it won't make anything sell less or get your favorite creator to change his path.
It isn't to say there's isn't something kind of crass and offputting about this KFC thing. But it's not going to be actively harmful to the genre. I'd argue it has more chance to be harmful to say, a sometimes ignored minority fanbase participating in general gaming discussion when the mainstream only pays attention to a meme game.
It isn't to say there's isn't something kind of crass and offputting about this KFC thing. But it's not going to be actively harmful to the genre. I'd argue it has more chance to be harmful to say, a sometimes ignored minority fanbase participating in general gaming discussion when the mainstream only pays attention to a meme game.
I'm more insulted by the fact that this VN effectively gamified "quirky brands on Twitter". I imagine that, were I to play this, "SILENCE, BRAND" would be repeating in my head indefinitely. Like those old Burger King games, but somehow even more stupid.
This game is no more harmful to visual novels than Ride to Hell: Retribution was for third-person action-adventure games. You can go on VNDB.org and discover a lot of trash. Better yet, don't. Spare your mind.
This game is no more harmful to visual novels than Ride to Hell: Retribution was for third-person action-adventure games. You can go on VNDB.org and discover a lot of trash. Better yet, don't. Spare your mind.
Honestly, If Marketing crap like this is enough to hurt a genre, then it deserves to die. The VN genre has enough creepy ass shit to hurt its chances of reaching bigger audiences rather than some "innovative" marketing app.
As has already been mentioned, the genre and much anime type stuff in general would get more global praise if they did away with the dubious sexualisation of children/teens.
That said, addressing the wider societal issues in that part of the world would also stop them selling used women's underwear from vending machines whilst they are at it.
That said, addressing the wider societal issues in that part of the world would also stop them selling used women's underwear from vending machines whilst they are at it.
I think the one from the sega/atlus rep who is calling another devs work "gross" is really awful, personally. The way they frame it like they want to look out for small developers, ignoring that work like this is a paying job for someone contracted to make it.
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There are, as my timeline has been filled with them. However, I wasn't going to make a thread about every tweet I saw and include it as that would take away from the topic and there is a media cap anyway. You're welcome to search VN on twitter and see for yourself. As i strived in making a thread I felt was fair about the topic from either side.
Doki Doki is kinda ironic too, but it's not terrible. It has the Higurashi premisse (seemingly silly slice of life that gets violent out of nowhere) but without the great story imo.
And I understand why it's more famous, Higurashi has ~80 hours, Doki Doki 5.
Japanese VNs is genre with relatively high licensing and localization cost compared to their current audience. The lack of coverage and awereness is reducing the chances some of the more prestigious ones getting official English releases, so it does hurt the genre and its fans that what little attention it gets is typically in the vein of "LOOK AT THIS WACKY GAME WHERE YOU CAN DATE DINOSAURS!!!"
These kinda of comments make no sense to me.
Do you need the OP to contain every tweet about this? How many tweets would you deem is enough?
Howling with laughter at the idea of Colonel Sanders destroying the VN genre.
Seriously, if you want to play all those obscure as hell VN's that never will get localised because they're full of questionable content by western standards, learn Japanese already.
Seriously, if you want to play all those obscure as hell VN's that never will get localised because they're full of questionable content by western standards, learn Japanese already.
I like Visual Novels, but VN Twitter can grow up or fuck off to be honest. This is the dumbest complaint. And if your genre is can't withstand parodies of all things, that isn't the fault of the parodies, it's the actual games not doing enough.
I remember when Ikea made one of the very first commercial VR apps, a VR version of their catalogue, and nobody was like "Gross! Destroying the perception of VR! Awful!"
I actually thought it was a pretty great idea, myself.
I actually thought it was a pretty great idea, myself.
this post is more appropriate than you realize because the "classic literature + ZOMBIES woooOoAAaAaAh!!" trend was just as uncreative and boring as someone going "have you heard about these games where you can freaking date people??"
does it hurt anything? no. is it funny or insightful? also no
Parody is a sign of popularity, it's good news fot VN fans. If these ironic VNs have their audience, then their existence is obviously great for those people, and it shouldn't hurt the fans of more serious work. If they don't have an audience, then they'll leave no mark whatsoever, so there's no reason to be upset.
I think that exploitative soft porn and openly hentai VNs are hurting the reputation of the genre far more, not to mention all the loli stuff. If there's anything that the genre fans should be upset about, it's those games.
I think that exploitative soft porn and openly hentai VNs are hurting the reputation of the genre far more, not to mention all the loli stuff. If there's anything that the genre fans should be upset about, it's those games.
I think a cynical corporate cash-in is as contemptible as anyone, but this "hurting the sanctity of the genre" horse shit is embarrassing
This is a genre predominantly anime and we are in a forum where anime is more often than not used as an negative/insult/denigrate. You will be more likely to get differing opinions on "is water wet ?".
*I don't think they do, non-ironic VN wouldn't get much coverage anyway.
*I don't think they do, non-ironic VN wouldn't get much coverage anyway.
Fuckin' open and shut
That account's avatar hurts it more than anything they are talking about
Respect for the medium? With a shit ton of those games about hooking up with teenage girls from the look of it, gonna take alot more than a colonel sanders dating sim to do more damage to the genre than whats already been done lol
Anyway i would think most people would find those kind of games as a gateway to the more legit VNs if they enjoyed their time with it
Anyway i would think most people would find those kind of games as a gateway to the more legit VNs if they enjoyed their time with it
People getting upset about parodies of anime romance games. Good god. Melodrama is easy to parody, that's why people do it, it doesn't matter if it's anime or a soap opera.
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I think there are some pretty fun parodies of rap being just about guys talking about money and bitches out there. "Show me your genitals" is still hilarious to me. "I'm on a boat" still gets a chuckle out of me. That doesn't mean I don't listen to other ("serious"?) forms of rap music or understand that one single parody is not equal to constructive criticism of the genres whole variety.
If you listen to the parody song and go "yup, that's it, all the valid criticism right there, nothing to add, nothing to further explore", then I'm not sure there was much hope of turning you into a rap fan in the first place. That's not exactly the parody song's fault, or should be held against parody.
And from what I can tell no one here or anywhere is saying that visual novels are all just wacky loser datings sims in response to this specific PR stunt.
I still don't see valid criticism against this parody Otome existing.
If anything, there seems to be an outcry about "Why does no one ever talk about the GOOD shit in this genre, only the whacky stuff?"
So it's a criticism of media informing people only of the clickbaity weird anecdotes, not a criticism of KFC making a low budget branded video game (hey, I grew up in the 90s, the idea really doesn't seem that outlandish to me, except this time I don't have to buy three kid's menus to get the CD-Rom with it).
Basically, if people are unhappy with the media not showing of more of the variety of the genre, they really shouldn't be angry at some of the fringes for existing instead.
Again, I thought it was pretty funny personally.
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The avatar is the best illustration of how absurd the premise of this thread is.
"Is this cynical corporate cash-in hurting the sanctity of the genre dominated by sexualized children?"
No it's not, the genre is doing that just fine by itself.
I don't think changing the tweet changes anybody's answer
If you're going to limit the discussion about what people think of when they think of visual novels, all you're going to get is a bunch of single word "no" answers ITT.
"our pure visual novel medium must not be bismirched!"
i get the value in complaining about a corporation taking advantage of the junk food craze to this degree, but its clearly something that is harmless.
You do way more damage to visual novels by threads like this. Your just inviting the people with their one note hot take generalizations about visual novels to come around and give people bad impressions rather than just having things play out.
i get the value in complaining about a corporation taking advantage of the junk food craze to this degree, but its clearly something that is harmless.
You do way more damage to visual novels by threads like this. Your just inviting the people with their one note hot take generalizations about visual novels to come around and give people bad impressions rather than just having things play out.
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No, pedo bait/misogynistic waifu crap VN are the biggest detriment. I'd like to play more of them but then I see the usual sexualized children/teenagers and I nope the fuck out quick and am far more likely to be discouraged to even check out what else is out there/coming out.
An ironic KFC Visual Novel is *whatever* in comparison.
An ironic KFC Visual Novel is *whatever* in comparison.
As someone who love VN, I don't think these joke VN are hurting anything.
We get it, you don't like them, but that's the end of it.
We get it, you don't like them, but that's the end of it.
I mean christ, browsing the Steam visual novel tag just absolutely blasts you in the face with a bunch of sexualized crap pandering to the lowest common denominator. "fan service" and lolis as far as the eye can see. A couple of jokey Western VNs don't even rate in comparison. The entire genre is tainted and you have to wade through an absolute river of shit to find the actual "good" ones, and even those are usually filled with embarrassing stuff you kind of have to ignore.
So no. Colonel Sander Is My Waifu or whatever is cynical and an obvious attempt by a Brand to be hip and cool, but it's not ruining the nonexistent sanctity of the VN genre.
So no. Colonel Sander Is My Waifu or whatever is cynical and an obvious attempt by a Brand to be hip and cool, but it's not ruining the nonexistent sanctity of the VN genre.
Speaking of 'niche genre', casual gamers actually love playing F2P western VNs on mobile. Episode, for example, has 50M+ installs. Choices has 10M+ installs. Even Ubisoft has their own take with 1M+ installs. Do they have high quality stories or CG backgrounds compared to the Steins or Higurashis? Most definitely not. But apparently a lot of people love playing them.
Edit: I just browsed throught the edited top tweet; I'm sure the 'guardians of genre' wouldn't consider those games as 'real VNs.'
Edit: I just browsed throught the edited top tweet; I'm sure the 'guardians of genre' wouldn't consider those games as 'real VNs.'
This is not incorrect. Dating sims to begin with pandered to a specific audience and that hasnt changed at all in all the time visual novels have existed. Rather its things like this that give mainstream appeal to play VN despite maybe having reservations about things they might have seen or heard before
Considering how niche a genre it is, it makes sense that the only properties that have managed to stand out and gain a following are those who thought outside of the genre's basic premise(FSN added deep plot and complex character development, Stein's gate added mind bending twists...Saya no uta for better or worse just exelled in being fucked. Clannad,/Air/Kanon maxmized the relationship drama, Higurashi carved a niche with ultra brutality ect)
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Completely understand where you two are coming. The change is just a personal one as I don't want it to seem like the site has it out for some random twitter user. As it could be misconstrued as such.
I feel like VNs are niche enough that any attention to the genre can only be a positive for it whatever form that takes
and even if that weren't the case there's plenty of stuff out there way more offensive than a corporate marketing joke game
and even if that weren't the case there's plenty of stuff out there way more offensive than a corporate marketing joke game