I have seen absolutely zero indication that, like people are trying to claim in this thread, "ironic" visual novels have actually expanded the base for this genre or encouraged people to try more visual novels.
I have seen absolutely zero indication that, like people are trying to claim in this thread, "ironic" visual novels have actually expanded the base for this genre or encouraged people to try more visual novels.
Yup, this has been my experience as well. Have friends who have played these three, but haven't even touched other VNs that are a bit deeper into the genre.
Just part of the fact that I hear about games like hateful or dream daddy and what not more than games like fata morgana leads a bit of credence to the possibility of quality vns being overshadowed.
I'm fine with these these types of project, but at the same time if you're going to make a specific claim that actually they help the genre you need to back that up with something provable. In my completely anecdotal experience there's no crossover between these types of projects and "normal" VNs.Exactly and the genre needs expansion not to retract into itself.
I'm fine with these these types of project, but at the same time if you're going to make a specific claim that actually they help the genre you need to back that up with something other than just facts originated from your ass.
I'm fine with these these types of project, but at the same time if you're going to make a specific claim that actually they help the genre you need to back that up with something other than just facts originated from your ass.
That will always be the case. My friends like the Beatles, but they don't care for the Kinks. Some people just don't get as passionate about stuff as yourself.
I started getting into VNs with Ace Attorney just fine, and Fata Morgana is one of my favourite pieces of the medium today, but I understand that investing 24h+ reading something demanding like that is not for everyone.
And it isn't going to be for everyone just because I keep recommending it to people either. Or because KFC doesn't put out joke games.
Also, Dream Daddy and Hatoful Boyfriends are both quality VNs just as much as Fata Morgana - just because something is lighthearted it doesn't mean that it can't be "good".
Not everything has to be an ingenious look into the deep trauma of baring your wounds onto another, we should be praising the entertaining stuff just as much as the more experimental or deep cutting bits - that's how you get people into a medium, not by telling them their taste in things is not appropriate.
I am arguing that this title will be so dissimilar from what you can see from an average example of the genre that retention will be negligible and I would extend that consideration to most if not all of these "ironic" VNs.They help the genre by putting out more games in the genre, is that not a good thing in itself?
I have yet to see anything that makes me believe that this game is an awful representation of a genre that most of the time doesn't take itself too seriously in the first place. (Talking about Romance Sims. Why the VN fans are so upset at this is weird to me.)
Do you truely believe not a single person in the world will play this as their first Romance Sim ever, thereby increasing the number of people playing Romance Sims?
Every game is someone's first.
(I think my first romance sim was Ristorante Amore, which was pretty meta, ... one could say a parody even.)
I am arguing that this title will be so dissimilar from what you can see from an average example of the genre that retention will be negligible.
(Talking about Romance Sims. Why the VN fans are so upset at this is weird to me.)
I don't think hardcore VN fans like seeing their favorite tropes lampooned. Which is fair. But you have to ask yourself why these tropes are so easy to parody in the first place.
The devs have made 2 titles with overall positive reviews. Why do you automatically assume its low quality? Because its published by KFC?I think it contributes to an overall perception people have of VN's. I don't really consider it gatekeeping to criticise low-quality joke games. Even if this particular game has more heart than expected it's still a straight-up KFC ad lol.
There's a difference between having humorous/absurd elements in a VN versus having the whole game be the joke.
To be totally honest if there's a bigger groundswell of interest that I'm just missing that's awesome, if we can get more eyes on the genre and have kind of a taste change away from a lot of the more problematic things you see in otherwise good VNs, while also making it a bit more financially viable, I'm 1 million percent down for it.It's purely anecdotal but I've seen people asking for "DDLC but without the horror" on reddit and forums because they enjoyed those parts.
To me, parody is the lowest form of entertainment available to humankind, next to webcomics and stand-up comedy.
VNs themselves hurt reputation of VNs, not some joke games that happens to be in the same genre
Pretty much. No one is to blame for the genre's image but its current self. Not some KFC VN. There being a KFC game, regardless of if its ironic is probably a good thing.I'd argue that the overexposure of borderline pedo weeb-bait is hurting the genre more but maybe I'm wrong.
Speaking of problematic things, wasn't DDLC lambasted for the way it presented the themes behind the horror stuff?To be totally honest if there's a bigger groundswell of interest that I'm just missing that's awesome, if we can get more eyes on the genre and have kind of a taste change away from a lot of the more problematic things you see in otherwise good VNs, while also making it a bit more financially viable, I'm 1 million percent down for it.
Woo, another waaaacky ironic Western Visual Novel making fun of those crazy Japanese.
https://mimidoshima.wordpress.com/2019/09/07/why-cant-people-make-cute-vns/
Here's a good article about these ironic VNs and why they are bad for the genre.
Now please stop wasting breath on this dumb chicken game and go support the fantastic Western contributions to the genre like Heart of the Woods, Highway Blossoms, VA-11 Hall-A, etc.
The actual game might paint a different picture but I honestly can't see how this is far more mocking, and I feel immediately dismissing it as the work of "just an outsider leaping on" is unfair. It's not like this is the developer's first visual novel; Camp W is a fun, lovely little VN with no romantic element.first, hatoful boyfriend is beloved because it's a knowing parody of genre tropes and foibles made by people who clearly know about the genre. the stuff people have gripes with is far more cynical: games like this KFC marketing tie in are far more mocking, as if the idea of a game where you talk to people and read stuff with romantic element sounds is absurd on its face. it's the same kind of difference between a rap parody like CB4 and people who still think rappers say "for shizzle." you can tell who is lampooning something they're familiar with and who is just an outsider leaping on something they think is weird and different.
I agree with a lot of things in the link you provided, but do they really apply here? The little I can see from the screenshots don't seem to look down on the medium or intend to criticize it, and if anything it reads more like a cooking parody. Can't it just be an absurd visual novel without being read as "making fun of crazy Japanese"?Woo, another waaaacky ironic Western Visual Novel making fun of those crazy Japanese.
Especially ironic considering Atlus had to rely on contract work themselves in the NES days doing movie tie-in games.This is why I commented earlier that I found the sega/atlus tweet calling this "gross" to be particularly awful. Sometimes people have to do low-prestige jobs to keep the lights on. It happens. Calling contract labor "gross" paints their entire company in a bad light, in a way they probably don't deserve.
Honestly VNs themselves are what's hurting the VN genre's reputation. If a parody like this ends up being actually funny, it can only help it. VN fans love to act like the good serious VNs are the only true representation of the genre but it doen't take a genius to see how flooded it is with pedobait waifu trash. Hell, even many of the widely recommended "real" VNs can often have creepy shit that deters people from playing them much more than an ironic parody ever will.
This VN doesn't have any kind of sex scene, date scene or things like that. Of all works you could use as example lol
I am reading Higurashi right now. Tons of sex jokes involving all the main characters whose ages are 10 - 15 years old. Take that as you will.
And Prince was wrong.
It's not really worth discussing this stuff in this site, but yes. These "parody VNs" that get all the attention both take the spotlight of actual serious works, while creating a stereotyped version of what VNs "are" to people that don't even play VNs (hint: not all of them are dating sims or erotic).
It's a lot of parodies done for people who don't read VNs for other people who don't read VNs as well, all assuming they know the tropes of this genre they don't actually have an experience with.
your ignorance on the VN genre is very... western. google otome games. even "otome games switch".The avatar is the best illustration of how absurd the premise of this thread is.
"Is this cynical corporate cash-in hurting the sanctity of the genre dominated by sexualized children?"
No it's not, the genre is doing that just fine by itself.
anna ou-your ignorance on the VN genre is very... western. google otome games. even "otome games switch".
MOST VNS ARE MADE FOR WOMEN. A GOOD FRACTION DON'T EVEN HAVE WOMEN IN THEM.
so honestly just say you're generalizing a whole country and go.
your ignorance on the VN genre is very... western. google otome games. even "otome games switch".
MOST VNS ARE MADE FOR WOMEN. A GOOD FRACTION DON'T EVEN HAVE WOMEN IN THEM.
so honestly just say you're generalizing a whole country and go.
a whole country? Where did I say anything about a country? I hope you didn't hurt anything stretching that far, damn, see a doctoryour ignorance on the VN genre is very... western. google otome games. even "otome games switch".
MOST VNS ARE MADE FOR WOMEN. A GOOD FRACTION DON'T EVEN HAVE WOMEN IN THEM.
so honestly just say you're generalizing a whole country and go.
They are talking about a VN that is inspired by an otome VN. It's obvious just by looking at it. So coming into a thread to talk about the problems of 1000 year-old dragon lolis when the topic at hand is an otome VN is embarassing, generalizing and just shows how people in this forum are too drunk in Western discourse.Otome games are a very real genre that doesn't have a lot of the problems we associate with male focused VNS. I have even recommended some of them to female friends into anime but where did you get the idea that they are a market majority? Also how do they invalidate the issues with non-otome games?
I won't shut up, but thanks! Very cute responsea whole country? Where did I say anything about a country? I hope you didn't hurt anything stretching that far, damn, see a doctor
also from my "very western perspective" when I look at VNs on Steam I sure don't see a lot of games that appeal to me, a woman. So, shut up.
They are talking about a VN that is inspired by an otome VN. It's obvious just by looking at it. So coming into a thread to talk about the problems of 1000 year-old dragon lolis when the topic at hand is an otome VN is embarassing, generalizing and just shows how people in this forum are too drunk in Western discourse.
It's like picking apart Bloodborne because of problems in representation of women in JRPGs.
It's not this thread's topic and you're just showing your ignorance on art from a whole country.
They are talking about a VN that is inspired by an otome VN. It's obvious just by looking at it. So coming into a thread to talk about the problems of 1000 year-old dragon lolis when the topic at hand is an otome VN is embarassing, generalizing and just shows how people in this forum are too drunk in Western discourse.
It's like picking apart Bloodborne because of problems in representation of women in JRPGs.
It's not this thread's topic and you're just showing your ignorance on art from a whole country.
It's exactly why I picked that example. It's a widely acclaimed and often recommended serious VN that just so happens to have prepubescent girls in skimpy clothing as one of the screenshots on its steam page. And it's not unique in that. If stuff like that doesn't bother you then I don't know what to say. But it's what's creating the genre's negative reputation as pervy and creepy, not ironic parodies.This VN doesn't have any kind of sex scene, date scene or things like that. Of all works you could use as example lol
So you're not gonna address the part where you're misrepresenting VNs to make us all look like baka gaijins who are also racist because we correctly assert that a lot of VNs are gross (what even is this argument?). Never mind the irony if telling a woman that the thing I'm talking about, sexualization of children, is made for me, lol. You missed the point because you were so obsessed with defending your precious pet genre your first instinct was to just insult me. So piss off with your cutesy shit and don't talk to me again. I'll make it easy for you by putting you on ignore.
It's exactly why I picked that example. It's a widely acclaimed and often recommended serious VN that just so happens to have prepubescent girls in skimpy clothing as one of the screenshots on its steam page. And it's not unique in that. If stuff like that doesn't bother you then I don't know what to say. But it's what's creating the genre's negative reputation as pervy and creepy, not ironic parodies.
I'm a woman, and believe me I loathe loli shit. Some things in Higurashi bothers me, like some costumes in Persona 5, but judging a 80 hours "book" by one screenshot is not the best thing to do.