I would say the opposite is true for me. Every "gateway" game I've played has drove me to further explore the genre.
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Are "Ironic" Western Visual Novels hurting the VN Genre?
- Thread starter Jawmuncher
- Start date
I think the use of the word "ironic" for things like this is doing more damage to the English language than these VNs are doing to the VN genre.
And I'm not doing that. I said nothing that would be a judgement of that entire VN. All I'm saying is that this stuff is what deters people (like me) from many games and creates the genre's reputation.
There have always been tons of parody VNs, both in Japan and the West.
I understand that it's frustrating to see really bad examples of the genre being the only examples to get tons of media coverage, but that's more something that I blame the... to be diplomatic, often shady VN community on, and the lack of PR for good examples, rather than these parody games. VNs are probably the cheapest game that you can make that wont end up looking like it's the product of an overly ambitious 13 year old in 1997. As long as you have access to even a half-decent artist the game will come out not looking super embarrassing. It's obvious why people would want to use them as PR tools.
VNs will always have trouble escaping the stench created by schoolgirl filled nukige. Those then becomes hard to distinguish from content like CLANNAD, which although filled with schoolgirls, is honestly much tamer than the content you'd find in a lot of literature aimed at the YA audience in America. And then every other type of VN gets conflated with dating/romance/etc. VNs. Combine all of this with VNs being less likely to attract the "I just want to sit down and GAME" Call of Duty audience, it's unlikely that most people will ever give more serious VNs a chance.
TL;DR: VNs have a massive public image problem, and KFC's game isn't doing anything to it either way. At worst it's just baffling to serious fans of the genre.
I understand that it's frustrating to see really bad examples of the genre being the only examples to get tons of media coverage, but that's more something that I blame the... to be diplomatic, often shady VN community on, and the lack of PR for good examples, rather than these parody games. VNs are probably the cheapest game that you can make that wont end up looking like it's the product of an overly ambitious 13 year old in 1997. As long as you have access to even a half-decent artist the game will come out not looking super embarrassing. It's obvious why people would want to use them as PR tools.
VNs will always have trouble escaping the stench created by schoolgirl filled nukige. Those then becomes hard to distinguish from content like CLANNAD, which although filled with schoolgirls, is honestly much tamer than the content you'd find in a lot of literature aimed at the YA audience in America. And then every other type of VN gets conflated with dating/romance/etc. VNs. Combine all of this with VNs being less likely to attract the "I just want to sit down and GAME" Call of Duty audience, it's unlikely that most people will ever give more serious VNs a chance.
TL;DR: VNs have a massive public image problem, and KFC's game isn't doing anything to it either way. At worst it's just baffling to serious fans of the genre.
this isn't just about the kfc thing
i've seen some noise in vndev twitter about pizza game recently, which is, uh...
...yeah.
no further comment, also play heart of the woods and heaven will be mine
i've seen some noise in vndev twitter about pizza game recently, which is, uh...
...yeah.
no further comment, also play heart of the woods and heaven will be mine
^ this
Even the non-ironic ones hurt the genre. There's ecchi VNs that release on Steam almost every day and the ones that are actually good are overshadowed or rarely shine through like Doki Doki Literature Club.
If you wanna reach, streamers can also be blamed for exposing the bad ones since they make for rather entertaining streams and have no value otherwise.
Sorry for inserting myself into the discussion, and I haven't played Higurashi.
I think that a lot of stuff like this, that makes people uncomfortable in VNs, plays a bigger part of the genre not finding a wide audience compared to KFC sponsoring a dumb parody game (that might not even be half bad).
It's not right do judge the VN by that screenshot, but I also don't think you can always handwave things that people don't enjoy by claiming the overall experience is worth putting up with the nonsense.
"Very cute response" says the guy portraying himself as the defender of women's interests....to a woman. Yikes.
I'm honestly not really sure what the problem is with this. The perception of the VN genre has nothing to do with games like this and everything to do with the art styles, subject matter, and just the gameplay of the more prominent ones. This isn't going to affect people's opinions about it whatsoever. If you're a fan of the genre you're going to see this as some random licensed game and if you're not you're going to see this as some random licensed game.
Not to mention the game isn't even out and you're already assuming the worst solely based on the little you've seen of it, which is ironic, considering fans of the genre probably get annoyed when outsiders do the same
Not to mention the game isn't even out and you're already assuming the worst solely based on the little you've seen of it, which is ironic, considering fans of the genre probably get annoyed when outsiders do the same
Like I said, even if this isn't that bad, it's literally an ad for a big fast food brand. By a marketing group called Psyop. Not really all that interested. I was mostly speaking to other games anyway.
I am very early in the novel, at Arc 3, but Higurashi is full of sexual jokes. Hell, that is what I assumed that poster you replied meant with his pic; because this happens in that same scene.
The one that stood out the most to me, but can't find the screenshot right now, is when Keichi gets aroused after imagining Rika being forced to be a prostitute.
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Uhh no, they didn't. These are not "well established genre traits." The West has completely silly ideas of what VNs are born from ignorance.
I agree, and Higurashi, while not the worse in the genre, also has creepy stuff.
Games like Ace Attorney do a great service to the genre, just a good story without fan service.
It's very sad that this is the case, but yeah, I can see how this turns people off the genre, as someone who's probably invested a thousand hours into the genre by this point.
I am very early in the novel, at Arc 3, but Higurashi is full of sexual jokes. Hell, that is what I assumed that poster you replied meant with his pic; because this happens in that same scene.
The one that stood out the most to me, but can't find the screenshot right now, is when Keichi gets aroused after imagining Rika being forced to be a prostitute.
What. The. Actual. Fuck.
Uhm....
(I'm just joking, but it's not like the games are free of annoying sexualization either.)
I am very early in the novel, at Arc 3, but Higurashi is full of sexual jokes. Hell, that is what I assumed that poster you replied meant with his pic; because this happens in that same scene.
The one that stood out the most to me, but can't find the screenshot right now, is when Keichi gets aroused after imagining Rika being forced to be a prostitute.
I read it a while ago so I didn't remembered, yikes. Is this act 3 of the first chapter or chapter 3?
One joke KFC game isn't going to ruin the reputation of the VN genre when thousands of pornographic games involving teenagers already exist.
I have played what I would consider a healthy number of Visual Novels including some pretty out there ones and unless we're thinking of very different traits the ones being discussed here are definitely well established in fact I can't think of a single one that doesn't contain some kind of fan-service, sexualization, or otherwise pandering.
Also, let's not pretend Otaku is more than a sub-culture in Japan. One that the average Japanese person doesn't endorse other than purely cutesy stuff used in advertising.
I'd argue the opposite. The "ironic" VN are at least known to be safe and approachable. Even before the latest wave of ironic VN starting with Hatoful Boyfriend, VN had the reputation of being the video game equivalent of soft core porn. Lots of story and set up, but all for the ultimate goal, which is getting a boner. There could be a lot of care a craft put into it, but hard to get other people to care about the thing that seemingly just exists to give you a boner.
If you are not a completionist just fast forward the club scenes.
When did KFC going from being ironic to outright gross? It could end up telling a decent, fun story.
I'm not really sure I understand the OP. Why does the VN community get to have any say whatsoever as to what VN games are released? I like shooters but have no control over which FPS games get developed. I just don't buy it if I have beef with the developer or don't take an interest in the game.
It's not like these "ironic"/parody/western VNs are going to magically make traditional VNs disappear. Also, just because a developer does a VN differently (or "wrong" from your perspective), that frankly isn't any of your business to critize just because it doesn't fit within your preconceived notions of what a VN game should be. Traditional VNs will still exist and continue to be developed as long as there's a market audience. If reputation is a concern -- it shouldn't be. Many people already consider VNs to be the territory of softcore pornography and such, so that ship has long since sailed.
It's not like these "ironic"/parody/western VNs are going to magically make traditional VNs disappear. Also, just because a developer does a VN differently (or "wrong" from your perspective), that frankly isn't any of your business to critize just because it doesn't fit within your preconceived notions of what a VN game should be. Traditional VNs will still exist and continue to be developed as long as there's a market audience. If reputation is a concern -- it shouldn't be. Many people already consider VNs to be the territory of softcore pornography and such, so that ship has long since sailed.
The gatekeeping around this game is a sight to behold, as if this could sully the good name of a genre that's heavily intertwined with the sexualization of minors
what exactly is the aim of these posts
those people should work to educate themselves on the genre's history and how many non-eroge there are (or ero stuff that's not for male gratification)
Wtf that's more gross than probably anything in some silly advertisement game.I am very early in the novel, at Arc 3, but Higurashi is full of sexual jokes. Hell, that is what I assumed that poster you replied meant with his pic; because this happens in that same scene.
The one that stood out the most to me, but can't find the screenshot right now, is when Keichi gets aroused after imagining Rika being forced to be a prostitute.
Strange how people recommending VNs tend to forget these things.I am very early in the novel, at Arc 3, but Higurashi is full of sexual jokes. Hell, that is what I assumed that poster you replied meant with his pic; because this happens in that same scene.
The one that stood out the most to me, but can't find the screenshot right now, is when Keichi gets aroused after imagining Rika being forced to be a prostitute.
Because it's normalized to them.
When Maya and Pearl channel Mia, her breasts are barely contained by the two's clothes. There is also other questionable stuff in the franchise.
If a game I played had pedo shit I wouldn't forget it. I wouldn't keep playing it either! You gloss over it because it's normalized, and here you are continuing to do so.
I would strike VA-11 Hall-A out of that list, given the 10-years-old looking sexbot that appears on it.
This is the second time I'm seeing a poster imply that the ero stuff for female gratification is in any way less gross.
I mean, let's be real, we can count the EXTREMELY GOOD MASTERPIECES of the genre on two hands, maybe on four hands if we include unlocalized stuff.
A large portion (be it the majority or not) of VNs and especially dating sims (male and female!) deals with various fetishes and fantasies that will never appeal to a wide majority of people - that is on purpose. This is a niche genre.
The existence of these doesn't by association tarnish the very good efforts in the genre, like, I fvkcing hate Musicals with a passion, except Rocky Horror Picture Show, which I actually love. It's perfectly fine to have standouts in a genre you otherwise dislike or that is full of trash. You don't need to try to elevate the whole genre without caveats to argue that the really good stuff out of it is good.
There are two aspects to the criticism that I can see worth discussing:
a) Why do media outlets give parody stuff the time of day instead of some of the more serious or outstandings works of art in the genre?
- I agree, that's sad, but I know how ad money works, so I'm not sure this is something we'll find a solution for. I don't think that should escalate into: "It would be best for the game to not exist in the first place" though. I think that doesn't solve the problem one bit.
b) Is this an example of a western dev interpreting a work of art from another culture for the sole purpose of ridicule and misrepresentation?
- I would prefer we play the game before we close the lid on that can of worms. From what I have seen, I felt there was a genuine well done homage to a lot of the tropes and yes, perceived wackiness of it, that of course comes from a Westerners perspective, but doesn't automatically lead me to believe that they mean to ridicule or insult their source material. As others have mentioned, playing with and subverting Otome tropes isn't uncommon in the genre itself, with the biggest and best example being Hatoful Boyfriend (by a Japanese Doujin artist) - so the parody view is not one taken exclusively by Westerners anyway.
Gross shit like this is why i avoid most VNs not called Ace Attorney.I am very early in the novel, at Arc 3, but Higurashi is full of sexual jokes. Hell, that is what I assumed that poster you replied meant with his pic; because this happens in that same scene.
The one that stood out the most to me, but can't find the screenshot right now, is when Keichi gets aroused after imagining Rika being forced to be a prostitute.
criticism against a brand making a lame-ironic promotional game is gatekeeping, please consider the brand.
Am a man, I can confirm as I think HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH is the best fanfic ever written.