Are people who self-identify as "woke" or "ally" actually throwing up a giant red flag?

[Brass Body Dave]

What's your experience been? I'll always believe that deeds waaaay outweigh words (and who wouldn't?) but I've found that around self-proclaimed allies or people who say they're woke, as soon as they get to know you on a personal level, some real bullshit emerges.

 

[Rackham]

I've only ever heard the term "woke" used facetiously

 

[large_gourd]

Probably a mix of genuine (if a bit corny) people and absolute deviants looking to get something over on the world, like most things.

 

[The Albatross]

'Ally' has been around for ages and I don't see any red flag with that term. I was exposed to the 'ally' term in the 90s for people who were against intolerance towards gay and lesbians.

But, I find that people who self-identify as 'woke' have an equal chance of being Bilderberg conspiracy theorists as they are advocates for social justice.

 

[Brakke]

This is a dumb thing to internalize. There isn't some dirtbag shibboleth. Lots of people aren't as online as you.

 

[Chopchop]

I feel like I'm too fucking old to really understand what people mean when they say "woke" or "ally".

 

[Amnesty]

My thoughts are that someone who is an ally shouldn't need to proclaim it to other people. They should just behave as one and keep their pride about being 'woke' or an ally to themselves. It only serves to center focus on them when they bring it up and so detracts from what the purpose of being an ally is, which is to put the thoughts, feelings and needs of others before your own - at least in the context of being an ally.

 

[PSqueak]

its a giant red flag when people use labels as their only personality trait, yes.

woke is specially suspicious because it's usually used as a self identifier by people who barely even understand the word and treat being progressive like a competition they must win.

 

[sir_crocodile]

do people actually do this?

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Nobody says woke seriously

 

[Deleted member 2809]

Man if you call yourself woke I ain't talking to you lmao

 

[Almawtaa]

I don't like to make that assumption or generalization, but it's becoming harder for me not to.

I know people who do volunteer/charity work for progressive causes, who quietly toil away at making marganilzed people's lives better. Like actually better. They are often humble and don't make it about them or take deserved, let alone undue credit for the successes.

And I know people who's outreach amounts to clicking 'interested' in communist marches, and spend every other post on Facebook talking about how hard it is being woke, and how hard their lives in general are.


Yes, I am becoming a bitter old man.

 

[Jokergrin]

If you have to say you are woke, you probably ain't woke

 

[Zhukov]

I've never heard the terms used outside the internet.

Granted, I'm Australian and "woke" at least seems to be more of an American thing as far as I can tell.

I really don't like the term "woke". It sounds like the lefty equivalent to "the red pill". Has the same connotations of, "Only I know how things really are, because I'm enlightened to the truth while everyone who thinks differently is a slumbering sheep".

 

[Brass Body Dave]

do people actually do this?

Click to shrink...

I'm talking in a professional capacity, as well. Not just nerds on the internet.

 

[Fat4all]

woke4all

 

[fadedbones]

Probably a mix of genuine (if a bit corny) people and absolute deviants looking to get something over on the world, like most things.

Click to shrink...

Pretty much how I feel. Like others have said you shouldn't have to state that you're woke, do it. Be the change you want to see etc etc

 

[Deleted member 4034]

I feel like I'm too fucking old to really understand what people mean when they say "woke" or "ally".

Click to shrink...

You can figure out ally with context clues.

 

[Deleted member 15428]

It's not something you say, it's something you do

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Never trust anyone who gives themselves a nickname.

 

[Brass Body Dave]

I know people who do volunteer/charity work for progressive causes, who quietly toil away at making marganilzed people's lives better. Like actually better. They are often humble and don't make it about them or take deserved, let alone undue credit for the successes.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, we have some great volunteers and sadly the majority of them only show up when news cameras are rolling.

 

[Pandaman]

I've only ever encountered those terms here and usually in the context of complaining about 'fake' ones.

 

[Slayven]

If you have to say it, then you are not it

 

[Pancracio17]

Depends on how sarcastic they are.
Unironic uses raise a big red flag.

 

[sir_crocodile]

I'm talking in a professional capacity, as well. Not just nerds on the internet.

Click to shrink...

I have never seen either term used in this context off the internet.

 

[Deception]

Nobody says woke seriously

Click to shrink...

Are you sure about that? I know plenty of folks who claim to be "woke" and then spout incorrect facts pertaining to many things. Favorite line is "YOU ARE JUST NOT WOKE YET"

 

[Qwark]

Ally as in LGBTQ ally? What's wrong with that? I find it really supportive.

Woke is dumb though and I've never heard it unironically.

 

[Amnesty]

I've never heard the terms used outside the internet.

I really don't like the term "woke". It sounds like the lefty equivalent to "the red pill". Has the same connotations of, "Only I know the real truth, because I'm enlightened to the truth while everyone who thinks differently is a slumbering sheep".

Click to shrink...

I hear ally a fair bit in activist circles and events/rallies I've attended.

 

[Duane]

I feel like I'm too fucking old to really understand what people mean when they say "woke" or "ally".

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I'm kinda getting there too. Chances are I agree with most of what people who are labeled this way think, but I don't care if I'm viewed as a "woke ally". It's not about me... if I'm doing things right, I shouldn't be labeled as anything other than a normal person. Recognizing my own privilege and trying to counter it when the opportunity arises shouldn't be an exceptional thing, it should just be standard. Why look for cred in doing the right thing?

 

[Deleted member 2145]

stay woke fellow allies

 

[Fat4all]

Never trust anyone who gives themselves a nickname.

Click to shrink...

 

[TrailerParkRanger]

I don't see a problem with it. Ally is something I've encountered in activist/organizing circles since the mid 90's. Woke is more recent, and I'll be honest, I'm still fuzzy on the meaning.

Example: I have a friend, who is "woke." White dude, heart is in the right place. Moves into a neighborhood (Pilsen, in Chicago) that is undergoing gentrification and displacement of the traditionally Chicano community that has been there since post-WW2. Immediately posts on Facebook about the gentrification problem in the neighborhood, or, calls out an entertainment establishment for their problematic way of dealing with the community and then several days later, I see photos of him trashed at same establishment.

Based on my experience, I'm apprehensive about anyone who uses the phrase "woke." Ally is something that people don't pickup unless they have had some encounter with actual organizing and the academic/professional language surrounding political movements, etc.

 

[Amnesty]

Yeah, I'm kinda getting there too. Chances are I agree with most of what people who are labeled this way think, but I don't care if I'm viewed as a "woke ally". It's not about me... if I'm doing things right, I shouldn't be labeled as anything other than a normal person. Recognizing my own privilege and trying to counter it when the opportunity arises shouldn't be an exceptional thing, it should just be standard. Why look for cred in doing the right thing?

Click to shrink...

It's not just about you though. Ally as a term can be useful for organizers and activists in addressing the people who are helping out. You know, instead of just saying 'hey all you white people' or whatever. Ally can be used in reference to a mixed or diverse set of people. Sort of like a rallying tool.

 

[Deleted member 1248]

Normal people don't do this.

 

[ChrizzSTARR]

Claiming to be woke is political equivalent of a guy claiming that he's a 'nice guy'.

If you're the real deal, than you won't even need to say it out loud.

 

[Fat4all]

is this like when i tell my boss that Electric Light Orchestra 'slaps' and he looks like he wants to throw his stapler at me?

 

[Creatchee]

"Woke" and "Ally" are the Verified by Twitters of social justice.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Yeah no. I might consider myself "woke" on debate stuff but in terms of real-life application? Not even close. Being aware of one's own blind-spots in terms of oppression is probably one of the most important things to reflect upon. I think it's much harder to broaden your perspective than most people give credit for, so the important thing is to actively listen to people who have not had the same experience in life as you have.

I never describe myself as an "ally". How can I be an ally if my daily actions are still rooted in ignorance? I am only an ally to the point that I am being helpful. If I do something harmful in a particular situation, it doesn't matter what my intention or self-labeled "in my heart of hearts" bullshit happens to be. I think people put way too much value in labels to begin with. You are what you do, the rest is a reflection of that and only really matters in terms of your continued inner struggle, not something to be worn like a badge of honor for everyone to see and applaud you for.

Getting a nazi doing the Hitler salute kicked out of a gig my band played garnered cheers and applause from the audience. I don't want to sound like an edgelord and I took it gracefully and showed outward appreciation, of course, but my inner feeling was "Don't fucking applaud this shit, this is literally the least anyone should be doing in this situation. Bare fucking minimum." Actions are what matter and the sooner we stop treating basic human decency as exceptional heroism and start putting pressure on people to apply that sort of agency in their daily lives, the sooner this world will stop being shit for underprivileged people.

 

[Raven117]

The whole notion of the label of ally versus woke is kinda pointless and leads to countless discussions of whether someone is an ally or isn't instead of actually looking for issues that folks can agree on and try and get changed.

Quite frankly, its intellectually lazy as its easier to go through a purity test analysis rather than actually try and change policy, find things to agree on to move the political football, and be exclusionary to the causes own detriment.

 

[adj_noun]

I've only ever really seen the ally thing used as a weapon.

Like, "clearly you are not an ally!"

 

[GuessMyUserName]

... People self-identify as woke?

 

[Wintermute]

i stopped referring to myself as an ally a long time ago, it just feels weird to say, it seems to try to center an issue around your participation in it, rather than your support of others.

woke is only used in an ironic manner now. i refuse to believe anyone says it seriously.

i'd put these in the same boathouse as atheist. i'm an atheist but i dont refer to myself as such, because there is so much baggage from so many trash monsters who like to call themselves atheists like its some special calling. strange that.

 

[makingmusic476]

I've never heard someone self-identify as woke.

 

[JonesiiiFromtheMoon]

I don't see a problem with it. Ally is something I've encountered in activist/organizing circles since the mid 90's. Woke is more recent, and I'll be honest, I'm still fuzzy on the meaning.

Example: I have a friend, who is "woke." White dude, heart is in the right place. Moves into a neighborhood (Pilsen, in Chicago) that is undergoing gentrification and displacement of the traditionally Chicano community that has been there since post-WW2. Immediately posts on Facebook about the gentrification problem in the neighborhood, or, calls out an entertainment establishment for their problematic way of dealing with the community and then several days later, I see photos of him trashed at same establishment.

Based on my experience, I'm apprehensive about anyone who uses the phrase "woke." Ally is something that people don't pickup unless they have had some encounter with actual organizing and the academic/professional language surrounding political movements, etc.

Click to shrink...

Some people think its enough to just be aware, but awareness aint shit when you still actively benefiting from the same system you claim to be against.

Woke is what people say when they're going through the motion of social media and want to be seen as someone who has a mind above others, but really they think the same bullshit their chosen internet algorithmic circle believes.

 

[itwasTuesday]

I also don't see color.

 

[Septic]

What's your experience been? I'll always believe that deeds waaaay outweigh words (and who wouldn't?) but I've found that around self-proclaimed allies or people who say they're woke, as soon as they get to know you on a personal level, some real bullshit emerges.

Click to shrink...

I believe intention outweighs deeds.

FYI- I dont understand the 'woke' terminology here.

 

[CatAssTrophy]

In my experience an ally is someone who's actively engaged in the cause for a certain group and has been deemed as such by said group.

Where I work there is an official Pride group for LGBTQ employees and contractors, and they actively invite non-LGBTQ to their meetings and events, and even give presentations on how we can help. We're referred to as allies and they even gave a seminar on what it means to be one as well as HOW to be one.

This isn't limited to my company either, as the people giving this seminar were a third party guest invited by the Pride group and they do this for multiple companies and organizations.

Woke seems new and less specific. I've never heard of anyone claiming to be woke. Only see it used to criticize people.

 

[Cantaim]

is this like when i tell my boss that Electric Light Orchestra 'slaps' and he looks like he wants to throw his stapler at me?

Click to shrink...

No that's different. He's actually throwing the stapler at you cause you are a dog and have wandered into his office and he is scared.

 

[caliph95]

Has anyone ever used the word woke unironically

 

[Poppy]

why would anyone self identify as something positive instead of thinking openly about their flaws

seems like an ego problem to me!