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"Are Traps Gay?" | ContraPoints

TheIlliterati

TheIlliterati

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,782
This video is fantastic. I meant to just watch the beginning, but I watched the whole thing and was transfixed(pun not intended?). She's great at breaking down arguments point by point. I've seen another of her videos a while ago but I need to make an effort to watch others.
 
Frozenprince

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
On topic, there's a lot of grey area around this topic obviously but it's good to discuss it and the ramifications of hardline takes on sexuality and the need to browbeat ourselves over attraction and the myth of the box. I am a gay man, I've dated and been sexually intimate with a trans man, I don't find that makes me "less" gay for instance.

People need to come to terms with themselves sexually.
 
neatsaux

neatsaux

Member
Nov 11, 2018
2,158
red room
Van Dine said:
aV2xvx7.png
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Well. I am glad you managed to edit out the top part of that picture!
 
Tagesreste

Tagesreste

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
871
Van Dine said:
Nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day all you can be reasonably expected to do is treat other people with respect in regards to their preferred name and pronouns, if at the end of the day you can't see a trans person as anything other than their birth sex then that's perfectly fine, just don't be a raging asshole about it.

Probably less than 1% of the population actually accepts trans people (talking about acceptance here not tolerance). Even as someone who meets the diagnostic criteria for GID myself, I still don't view transgender identities as valid barring a few exceptions.
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Yikes.
 
Mona

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
Baron von Loathsome said:
Though I wouldn't phrase it as such, this is something that's been on my mind lately as a nominal supporter of trans rights. As much as I hate to admit it, dating a trans woman is not something I'm comfortable with, and I feel like that's something of a failure on my part.
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you dont have to date anybody you dont want to, and dont let anyone try to tell you otherwise
 

Deleted member 401

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,251
HyGogg said:
Well, I think a "trap" is specifically a woman who hasn't had bottom surgery, no? Or am I misunderstanding the topic? I don't think all transwomen would be considered "traps."
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I'm pretty sure the implication is that trans people are "lying" about their assigned gender. It's not really about the genitalia, but about the very core concept of transgenderism (if that's considerable an acceptable term).
 
Siggy-P

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
jack_package_200 said:
I remember on the old place someone said the "anime traps" did more to humanize trans people than years of trans activism

The cringe I felt remembering that was intense
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Kthulhu said:
Reminds me of this tweet:

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tenor.gif


HyGogg said:
Well, I think a "trap" is specifically a woman who hasn't had bottom surgery, no? Or am I misunderstanding the topic? I don't think all transwomen would be considered "traps."
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It refers to the idea that transgender people or cross dressers are specifically trying to trick straight men into sex with them. The term "trap" refers to when an exceptionally pretty girl actually has male genitalia.

This usage of the word puts forward the idea that all trans women are inherently rapists, or at least using the term for all trans people (as it is often used, hence the meme to call all trans characters in anime traps) is implying that.
 
neatsaux

neatsaux

Member
Nov 11, 2018
2,158
red room
Mona said:
why is this paper so dirty?

maybe im overly self conscious, but i would have gone to the next page before posting it online

god the more i look the dirtier it gets
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They clearly weren't thinking too much about it, because before they edited the image, the top portion had some mail with their name and address. Good save?
 
HyGogg

HyGogg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
Sandstar said:
Trap is a derogatory slur about transwoman, in so much as they "trapped" men into having sex with "another man". it's the same gay baiting fear they used to use to justify beating up a gay man that looked at them for longer than they thought was necessary (cause if a gay man found you attractive, did that mean you're a gay man. Spoilers: no.) As such, it refers to all trans women, SRS or no, because transphobes (the only people who use this term, and yes, I know some trans people use trap to refer to themselves. I stand by what I said) are seen as men by them.
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Of course it's a slur, which is why I put it in quotes, but it's also the subject of the thread, and my understanding of the term was the narrower meaning. I have personally never heard it used any other way, so I was assuming that was the subject at hand.

Anyway, I'm going to dig into the full video. I love ContraPoints, and she always does a great job of laying out her arguments without grandstanding or lecturing.

Siggy-P said:
It refers to the idea that transgender people or cross dressers are specifically trying to trick straight men into sex with them. The term "trap" refers to when an exceptionally pretty girl actually has male genitalia.

This usage of the word puts forward the idea that all trans women are inherently rapists, or at least using the term for all trans people (as it is often used, hence the meme to call all trans characters in anime traps) is implying that.
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Yeah, this was my understanding of the discussion.
 
Squarehard

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,821
Frozenprince said:
You realize the point of my post isn't to doubt your identity, it's to doubt your ability to argue or participate in the discussion in good faith. By being overtly hyperbolic immediately and attempting to poison the waters of discussion before there even is a discussion.
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The poster wanted to poison the water, so it's fine.

The poster has been banned as an alt account, so no need to even respond back since clearly not discussing in good faith.
 
Mona

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
Squarehard said:
The poster wanted to poison the water, so it's fine.

The poster has been banned as an alt account, so no need to even respond back since clearly not discussing in good faith.
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do their main accounts get banned too? or just their alt accounts?

ive always been confused by this

i assume the moderation staff can see that its an alt account because its being logged on by the same IP or w/e,

so surely these people know this it'll be easy as pie for people to catch them using an alt account

does anyone have any info into how this whole thing works?
 
Harry Potter Obama

Harry Potter Obama

Member
Feb 13, 2018
3,842
Japan
Baron von Loathsome said:
I'm pretty sure the implication is that trans people are "lying" about their assigned gender. It's not really about the genitalia, but about the very core concept of transgenderism (if that's considerable an acceptable term).
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That's probably the case now (I haven't really hung out in places where people use it in well over a decade), but IIRC "Trap" was originally used on sites like 4chan for cross dressing or extremely feminine-looking boys/men, specifically with anime characters. The "trap" part was that the person would be attracted to (or more specifically jack off to since this is 4chan we're talking about) the the seemingly female character someone posted thinking it was a girl, then it would be revealed it was a guy the whole time. Girls dressed as guys were "reverse-traps." After a while they just became a slang name for characters that looked like the opposite gender. Over time like the word "tranny" people started using it for transgender people instead.
 
The Citizen Kane of Games

The Citizen Kane of Games

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,005
Why are internet videos becoming so long? I get the whole 'essay' idea and enjoy them if I have the time. But really most of these videos could be edited better.

Will try to give this a watch...

EDIT: so I watched this (in x1.5 speed) and yeah this video is pretty great. Not at all the "sjw"/leftist video is was expecting. Very enlightening actually about transwomen. Hormone therapy is a lot wilder than I thought.
 
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Royalan

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,908
The Citizen Kane of Games said:
Why are internet videos becoming so long? I get the whole 'essay' idea and enjoy them if I have the time. But really most of these videos could be edited better.

Will try to give this a watch...
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ContraPoints specializes in long-form video essays. There are others on YouTube who don't.

I generally think she's one of the YouTubers who can do long-form videos, as she really gives you a fully formed opinion and often takes on several opposing viewpoints on whatever subject she's covering. The only parts I think could be cut are the comedy bits, but fuck that she's funny as shit.
 
Slappy White

Slappy White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,205
This is my first time watching one of her videos and she is amazing. Really gets me thinking a lot. I can't wait to explore her content more. "Trap" is such a nasty word.
 
Fierro

Fierro

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
960
I love her videos but man you really do need to be paying attention otherwise I am like, what is her point?

I need to watching this again but not be distracted, it is a major disservice to the effort she puts into it.
 
Inugami

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
Me and my wife had taken to watching these together, so I'll wait to dive in till tonight but glad to see more from Contra points.

Slappy White said:
This is my first time watching one of her videos and she is amazing. Really gets me thinking a lot. I can't wait to explore her content more. "Trap" is such a nasty word.
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If you're looking for a place to start, her Incel one was where we started watching and it's a great, if somewhat terrifying, watch.
 
Deepwater

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
Mona said:
you dont have to date anybody you dont want to, and dont let anyone try to tell you otherwise
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You don't *have* to date black people, or Jewish people, or bisexual people, or whomever. That's between you and your conscious.

Interrogating *why* you don't want to date XYZ group is what's essential and what is being asked.

If you (the general you) don't want to date trans folk, you don't have to. Nobody is asking you to do that. If you're unsure of your answer they probably don't want to date you anyway. What's being asked is for people to interrogate their categorical refusal and determine where it's comjng from.
 
Royalan

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,908
Platy said:
old ugly pic with hbomberguy, contra, Lindsay and the Folding Ideas dude
https://twitter.com/foldablehuman/status/877741381732544512
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Holy Shit, Leftist YouTube really is small. I just discovered Folding Ideas. lol

Platy said:
Not even close.

Also, worry less about what makes you gay and worry more about what you like and how you can enjoy yourself more.

Also it would not be bad if was.
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This.

Also, if anyone really wants a good summation of this video because you don't have the time to watch the full video, just watch the last 5 minutes. Natalie herself sums it up pretty good. (But still go back and watch the entire video when you have time.)
 
meowdi gras

meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
12,605
As a trans woman, probably no slur (and there are a lot of them, unfortunately) gets my blood boiling as much as "trap". I'd personally like to see the word when used in this context outlawed on this site as hateful. But that's just me.
 
Famassu

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Fiction said:
My brain is dead tonight Contra why.

I will watch you tomorrow
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This was meant to be released yesterday but some shitty airline apparently caused some problems for her getting home so it was delayed by a day.
Platy said:
The Leftist youtube is super small xD





old ugly pic with hbomberguy, contra, Lindsay and the Folding Ideas dude
https://twitter.com/foldablehuman/status/877741381732544512
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Wait, Lindsay married Natalie? Or is it just a "My waifu" joke between friends?
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
I watched it and now I feel like another line of archaic masculine programming in my head has been deleted. Woah

I mean, of course initially I would have said "no" to the question, but more as an off handed reaction. Now there's more to it that I will reflect on.
 
Enduin

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,467
New York
Really great as always. An especially thought provoking topic for hetero cis-men. It's not simply an issue of treating other people with respect, as you should, but confronting how you perceive yourself and allow the perceptions, real or imagined, of others to affect you. For all its focus on toughness, strength, both physical and mental, and all that kind of stuff masculinity is really really fragile.
 
Tabaxi

Tabaxi

Member
Nov 18, 2018
12,835
"Dick Umami" might be one of the greatest things I ever heard.

The whole video was stellar. Honestly one of her best.
 
How About No

How About No

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,785
The Great Dairy State
srsly? said:
As a trans woman, probably no slur (and there are a lot of them, unfortunately) gets my blood boiling as much as "trap". I'd personally like to see the word when used in this context outlawed on this site as hateful. But that's just me.
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I'm pretty sure it is? The only time I see it used is when its harmful meaning is being discussed

And anyone who does use it in the derogatory matter would be swiftly banned for transphobia
 
Unknown Unknown

Unknown Unknown

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
Well presented, fun and informative vid that took what seemed a simple slur and broke it down to address a wide variety of distresses and gender complexities. Not a wasted moment. The humour just gave a breather between each deep dive to pluck the pearls.
 
JigglesBunny

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,042
Chicago
I had never heard of her or seen her content until now but I am instantly hooked. Fantastic video and she has an incredible visual style. Subscribed.
 
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