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Gazele

Member
Oct 25, 2017
973
Disclaimer: This is a hypothetical discussion and not meant to make light of any of the horrible events (shootings, attacks) that have happened since November 2016. If mods feel this thread is not helpful they should feel free to take it down.

Scenario: Some have argued in jest that on the night of November 8th we entered an alternate dimension where Donald Trump wins the presidency (Earth-2) and left our "normal" reality where Hillary Clinton won the presidency (Earth-1). Even though this is incredibly far-fetched with no evidence let's examine the timeline of Earth-1 and explore how the world would be different.

Events:

1. Hillary Clinton wins the presidency becoming the first woman president. Congressional and Senate races are not changed so Republicans still hold majorities in Congress.

2. Donald Trump twitter: The presence of Trump on twitter would almost certainly increase, with possible calls for a "rigged" election and inquiries and panels to determine if this was the case.

3. Clinton impeachment hearings: With a majority in both houses of Congress, it's likely there would at least be attempts to impeach Hillary Clinton because of the email situation, uranium one and other things.

4. It would be difficult for Hillary to pass any legislation in this environment, but she would be able to veto legislation, likely leading to very few new laws. It's possible many executive actions could be taken, but there may be renewed calls to limit executive power.

5. I think it's fair to say all environmental and non-political violence still happen, so the hurricanes still hit, but the response (especially in Puerto Rico) is greatly improved. Las Vegas shooting and new york terrorist attack still happen.

6. Comey is not fired and therefore Bob Mueller is not brought in as special counsel, whatever investigations were going on continue as before.

7. Political energy - I think one of the biggest differences would be the change in political activity from the left (women's march, march for truth, swing left) and I feel like many people would have just gone on with their lives. It could be argued this would be for the best, but I think people being more interested in politics is a good thing on both sides.

What do you think? How would the world be different? Are we better or worse off on Earth-2?
 

Snake Eater

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,385
If Clinton had won I'm almost certain republicans would do everything they could do impeach her with majority control it would've been a deadlock mess for a few years but infinitely better than today's situation
 

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,895
The op title is misleading.

I thought this was going to be a discussion about what if we just started a new Earth on another planet, which would more or less be of the same discussion.

Should've just titled this alternative realities/universe. ;P
 

TerminusFox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,851
3. Clinton impeachment hearings: With a majority in both houses of Congress, it's likely there would at least be attempts to impeach Hillary Clinton because of the email situation, uranium one and other things.
....

*sigh*

This is very true.

There's an extremely unethical side of me that says that in this scenario, HRC should've just used the Justice Department and found every inch of corruption that the GOP had and prosecuted it as a "fuck you" to them.
 

Taurus Silver

Big ol' Nerd
Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,813
Its a certainty Clinton would have been impeached just loke her husband. She would've been found not guilty by the Senate because they wouldn't have been able to gather the additional 15 votes for it.

But if this is Earth-2 we certainly aren't better off. In no reality or planet are we better off with Donald Trump as president.
 

minato

Member
Oct 27, 2017
347
Imagine on Earth 2 the Democrats would of won the Senate so impeachment wouldn't be possible. But the Democrats would be screwed in 2018 and possibly 2020. On the plus side Supreme court situation would be much better and Hilary is bad at running but seems get more popular when not running so hopefully all of the crazy stuff the GOP would do against her would backfire.
 

Deleted member 6949

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,786
16cc0da4ee6d8d6aa1cbfc942e3e6410--sci-fi-shows-fantasy-films.jpg
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,034
We're not Earth 1. If there is a multiverse and multiverse travel becomes possible, we're an obscure tourist trap universe that people go to see where Donald Trump would actually be elected.
 
OP
OP
Gazele

Gazele

Member
Oct 25, 2017
973
We're not Earth 1. If there is a multiverse and multiverse travel becomes possible, we're an obscure tourist trap universe that people go to see where Donald Trump would actually be elected.

Well, we are on Earth-2 in this scenario (Earth-1 is where Clinton wins)

And for those saying it's USA-2 that's fair, but I feel like the election had implications for other countries, like France, Germany, South Korea and japan
 

Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,231
The Thing is though, if Earth corrects itself to have a more favorable outcome, who is to say that momentary strife/turmoil isn't just a natural state of this earth's existence?
 

BarryAllen

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,432
didnt 538 do a whole article on this. If anything it just would confirm 2020 would be a republican president. you dont get 16 years of the same party
 

BarryAllen

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,432
This Thursday marks 250 days since the Associated Press and other news organizations declared Hillary Clinton to be the "apparent winner" of last year's presidential election — and six months since Clinton took office. But it's almost as though the election never ended. Just consider the stories that have dominated the news so far this week:

On Monday morning, Clinton and the rest of the political world awoke to a barrage of incendiary tweets from Donald Trump. "Crooked H is a failed, FAKE PRESIDENT," said one of them, which linked to a Rasmussen Reports poll showing Clinton's approval rating at 37 percent.

On Tuesday, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr announced that he'd call upon former Attorney General Loretta Lynch to testify before his committee next week as part of hearings on whether Clinton and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, interfered with the FBI's investigation into Clinton's private email server.

Also on Tuesday, Fox News's Sean Hannity revealed what he said was "shocking new evidence" of widespread voter fraud in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, states Clinton won by just 7,000 and 17,000 votes, respectively. (Hannity's evidence consisted of an academic paper that has widely been discredited.)

And on Wednesday, White House press secretary Brian Fallon got into a shouting match with reporters at his daily press briefing, triggered by what he later said was frustration over the media's failure to cover new revelations about Russia's apparent interference in the 2016 campaign.

These storylines — Trump tweeting something inflammatory about Clinton, Republicans investigating Clinton, Clinton feuding with the press — keep repeating themselves. It sometimes seems as though we've spent the six months of Clinton's presidency trapped in the Most Annoying News Cycle Ever, with no chance of escape. But the truth is that there hasn't been a whole lot else to talk about. With Republicans in charge of both chambers of Congress, Clinton has little hope of enacting her legislative agenda. And although North Korea's increasingly ambitious nuclear tests are a major concern, Clinton's foreign policy has largely been a continuation of Barack Obama's and so has seldom made news. At this month's G-20 summit in Hamburg, Germany, for instance, the media devoted more coverage to Clinton's choice of pantsuits than to the G-20's reaffirmation of the Paris climate accords. So let's tune out the noise of the news cycle and consider Clinton's first six months from a historical perspective.

Clinton is historically unpopular
Clinton's presidency is not going all that well. Yes, the Rasmussen Reports poll Trump cited was an outlier, but her approval rating average is just 41.7 percent, the lowest at the six-month mark of any president elected since the 1930s (when approval ratings were first routinely collected). Yes, it's silly to refer to Clinton as a "lame duck," as The New York Times' Maureen Dowd did last week in a column that called for Clinton to hand the presidency over to Vice President Tim Kaine, but Clinton hasn't accomplished much on the policy front. Even relatively unambitious proposals that the White House once thought might attract some Republican support, such as a bill to tweak to the Family and Medical Leave Act, have instead been bogged down in congressional committees.

Clinton did manage one significant political accomplishment: getting Merrick Garland appointed to the Supreme Court. With the court set to consider a slate of landmark cases this year on matters including redistricting and abortion, the importance of that achievement should not be understated. But it came at a price. The deal she struck with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, which gave him input on several Cabinet appointments in exchange for his finding a few Republicans to back Garland, has come back to haunt her. The McConnell-approved choices, such as Attorney General Joe Lieberman and Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke, have often seemed to side more with congressional Republicans than with the White House. Furthermore, the deal meant Clinton paid for something — the Senate's approval of well-qualified Cabinet and court picks — that other presidents have gotten for free.

Despite the roadblocks in Congress, Clinton does have the powers of the executive branch and all that entails. But since Democrats had already held the White House for eight years, there aren't many presidential actions Clinton can take that Obama didn't pursue already. Mostly, she's been left to preserve his legacy, which Trump or another Republican president surely would have attempted to dismantle, especially in areas such as immigration, drug policy and criminal justice — and perhaps most importantly, Obamacare, which Trump repeatedly pledged to "repeal and replace" on the campaign trail. Fairly or not, it's been hard for Clinton to get a lot of credit from the Democratic base for not undoing things as opposed to doing new things, and although she remains broadly popular with Democrats (with an 85 percent approval rating), her enthusiasm numbers are tepid.

But it's also not clear whether we should have expected things to go much better for Clinton, considering her razor-thin Electoral College margin and the fact that Democrats don't control either chamber of Congress. Clinton won the popular vote by 3.1 percentage points, or 4.2 million votes, not far removed from Obama's 3.9-point margin over Mitt Romney in 2012. But Clinton ran up the score in wealthy cities and coastal states while substantially underperforming Obama in the Midwest, where a lot of Electoral College votes are up for grabs. As a result, she won only 276 electoral votes, compared to Obama's 332 in 2012, and would have lost the election if Wisconsin (which Clinton won by only 0.2 percentage points), Pennsylvania (0.3 percentage points) or Michigan (0.8 percentage points) had gone Trump's way.

The results were close enough, of course, that the networks and the AP didn't call the race for Clinton until the Saturday after the election as provisional ballots trickled in from Milwaukee and Philadelphia. And even then, she faced an automatic recount in Pennsylvania and a Republican-financed recount in Wisconsin. (Florida also underwent an automatic recount, which could have worked out in Clinton's favor, since she lost the state by only 0.2 percentage points.) These recounts were never very likely to change the outcome. But combined with Trump's unwillingness to formally concede the election (notwithstanding his Inauguration Day tweet, "Congrats to my friends Crooked Hillary and Sick Bill - let's hope they can #MAGA or we'll see what happens!") and the thinly evidenced but oft-repeated Republican claims about voter fraud, the recounts contributed to a national skepticism about Clinton. Her inauguration, when much of the press coverage focused on her becoming the first woman president, did produce a short-lived surge in Clinton's approval rating, sending it into the mid-50s in early February. But it's been downhill from there. And polls show that about 30 percent of Americans, including about 55 percent of Republicans, still don't regard her as a "legitimate" president.

Republicans have big problems, too
The polarized conditions have caused problems for Republican leaders as well, and McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan have had to pick their battles. While McConnell's deal with Clinton over Garland was widely praised by Beltway pundits, for example, it was reviled by both party bases: Rush Limbaugh and other conservative commentators urged McConnell to keep the ninth Supreme Court seat vacant indefinitely, while liberals were furious over the choice of Lieberman as attorney general and the fact that Clinton had to make a deal at all when polls showed that more than 60 percent of the public wanted Garland to be confirmed. (They also accused McConnell of reneging on the deal after Republicans declined to confirm Neera Tanden as secretary of health and human services.)

Republicans also face another, much bigger dilemma: impeachment. Although several House Republicans have filed articles of impeachment against Clinton, the House Judiciary Committee, at Ryan's request, has so far declined to take them up. It's not clear how much longer Ryan can hold the conservatives off, however. Most of the various investigations into Clinton haven't turned up all that much news, but there have been some exceptions, such as in June when FBI Director James Comey testified that Lynch, the former attorney general who served under President Obama, sought to downplay the investigation into Clinton's email server. And while polls show that only 35 to 40 percent of voters overall want Clinton to be impeached, more than 70 percent of Republicans favor her impeachment.

Then there's the elephant in the room. With a favorability rating averaging 37 percent in recent polls, Trump remains highly unpopular with the broader public. But most Republicans like Trump, and he's no more unpopular than he was during the campaign, when he was nearly able to win the election. Trump's coalition of white voters without college degrees overperformed in the Electoral College, while Romney's coalition, which was more suburban and well-educated, underperformed — a fact not lost on Republican leadership.

Amid some evidence that voters had "Trump fatigue," Trump was uncharacteristically quiet in the first month or two after Clinton's inauguration. But he's been back with a vengeance in recent weeks, with near-daily tweetstorms and frequent appearances on Fox News' "Hannity," MSNBC's "Morning Joe" and CNN's "The Recount With Kellyanne Conway." Often his criticisms have focused as much on the Republican leadership as on Clinton, and various Trump-aligned super PACs stand ready to raise the stakes against McConnell and Ryan. So while House and Senate leaders have occasionally expressed "concern" over Trump's erratic post-election behavior, they've failed to denounce it in more explicit terms.

An easier decision for McConnell and Ryan has been to not cooperate with Clinton on any of her legislative priorities. Obamacare remains quite unpopular, for instance, and polls show that most voters blame Clinton and the Democrats for its troubles as premiums rise and options decline in the individual health insurance marketplaces. Republicans have little incentive to agree to the fixes Clinton has proposed.

Democrats could face another catastrophic midterm
It's not that congressional gridlock and partisan rancor are anything new, exactly; political polarization has been on the rise since the 1970s. But whereas Obama had a two-year window in which he was working with a Democratic Congress that helped him pass policies such as Obamacare, Clinton has had no such opportunity and is unlikely to get one any time soon.

Instead, seven Democratic senators face re-election next year in states Trump won (and another three are up for re-election in states that Clinton won by less than a percentage point) — whereas only one Republican senator, Nevada's Dean Heller, will be on the ballot from a Clinton state. Polls so far suggest that the political climate is only mildly Republican-leaning amid broad dissatisfaction with both parties, but that could nevertheless be enough to topple these red-state Democrats, especially since the opposition party's advantage often expands as the midterm approaches. Democrats must also contend with recruiting challenges: No serious challenger has stepped up to face Heller, for instance, whereas Rep. Ann Wagner, considered the Republicans' top potential recruit, announced last week that she would run against the vulnerable Democratic senator Claire McCaskill in Missouri.

Special election results so far also ought to give Democrats pause. Democrats were cheered in April when their candidate, Kim Driscoll, won a special election in Massachusetts' 6th Congressional District to replace Rep. Seth Moulton, who became Clinton's secretary of Veterans Affairs. But Driscoll won by just 5 points, whereas Clinton had carried the district by 19 points last November. The result should have alarmed Democrats, but the media misconstrued it as a relief.

If there's a faint hope for Democrats, it's that Republicans could overplay their hand, as they did when they were building up to impeaching Bill Clinton in 1998. (The specter of impeachment helped Democrats make gains in the House that year — which is unusual for the president's party.) But Bill Clinton was considerably more popular at that time than Hillary Clinton is now.

The White House is always in combat mode
Clinton branded herself a "fighter" on the campaign trail and has often lived up to the title as president. But unusually for a Democrat, many of her fights have been with the media. Some of the grievances have been carried over from the campaign; in an April interview with ABC News' Diane Sawyer, for example, Clinton expressed disdain for how the mainstream media had covered Comey's letter to Congress last October "like it was Pearl Harbor." Clinton also claimed that the letter robbed her of a clear electoral mandate and may have cost Democrats the Senate.

Press secretary Fallon and White House chief of staff Huma Abedin have also been combative with the press. They've chided the media over what they say is its inattention to good economic news — the White House often brags about the Clinton/Obama job-creation streak, which now stands at 81 months — and its dismissiveness toward reports of Russian interference in last year's campaign. (Last week, Mother Jones reported that Donald Trump Jr. had taken a meeting at Trump Tower with Russian operatives who promised to provide opposition research on Clinton, but more prominent outlets such as The New York Times have not picked up on the story.) Fallon and Abedin have also critiqued the media's use of anonymous sources, especially after the incident in May when several news outlets falsely reported that Clinton would fire Comey from his role as FBI Director.

In many ways, the White House's feud with the media is emblematic of Clinton's approach to her political rivals. Some of her grievances are legitimate — for instance, the Comey letter probably did reduce Clinton's margin of victory and cost her at least one or two states. But the White House's reaction almost always inflames the situation rather than de-escalates it. It's never quite possible to say which came first: Clinton's contempt for her critics or their contempt for her.

So it goes with other points of conflict, too. Clinton's relationships with congressional Republicans have been undermined by years of mutual distrust that date back to Bill Clinton's tenure in office. And if Republicans haven't found all that many smoking guns in their years of investigating the Clintons, they've certainly found lots of instances where the Clintons brushed up against the borders of acceptable conduct.

If there's a central theme of our political era, it's partisan polarization: Both Congress and the public are much more divided along party lines than they were a generation ago. The question is whether Clinton is a victim of that polarization or has helped to accelerate it.

Clinton is the caretaker of an unpopular status quo
Perhaps the best defense of Clinton is that her presidency has been successful by Hippocratic standards: First, do no harm. The White House has not engaged in the sort of explicit norm-breaking that one imagines might have occurred under a Trump presidency. There haven't been any major military conflagrations, although Clinton did authorize a NATO-approved bombing raid against Syria in April. While Europe has suffered several major terror attacks during Clinton's tenure, the U.S. has not. Clinton is popular with traditional American allies, and her chummy relationship with German chancellor Angela Merkel and U.K. prime minister Theresa May has spawned a thousand, mostly affectionate memes. (May's Conservatives expanded their majority in parliament in the U.K. election last month, to the annoyance of some liberals who thought Clinton was too effusive in her praise of her). To Fallon and Abedin's point, the job market has been fairly healthy, and the stock market (after the Dow Jones plunged 700 points on the morning after the election, when the outcome was still in doubt) has rebounded to all-time highs.

As we look ahead to 2020, let's not underrate the power of incumbency — several past presidents, including Obama, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton, survived a bruising midterm and approval ratings in the low 40s (or worse) only to be handily re-elected. But if Clinton's pitch is essentially "Vote for me so that things don't break," the strategy has two potential liabilities.

One is that something could break; six months into the job, Clinton has not faced all that many tests. And on some matters, she will need Republican consent — she won't always be able to work around the GOP. A government shutdown, which looms in the fall after Congress narrowly avoided one in the spring, might not have major economic consequences, but a failure to raise the federal debt ceiling could cause a financial crisis. That Clinton's approval ratings are only in the low 40s despite a fairly good economy leaves open the question of how much further they might fall if the economy were to turn south.

Clinton's other problem — and perhaps the reason she's so unpopular in the first place — is that she's defending a status quo that many Americans already think is broken. According to the RealClearPolitics polling average, only a third of voters say the country is moving in the "right direction," while 60 percent say it's on the "wrong track." Trump's narrow miss in the Electoral College and Bernie Sanders's vigorous performance in last year's Democratic primaries suggest that an increasing number of voters are willing to gamble on unconventional alternatives.
 

Lackless

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,137
Trump winning on election night was the reason I met a beautiful girl and we dated for a few months. It was fantastic. So I gotta give this Earth 2 a no, OP.
 

phaeb

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
961
Earth 2, Tesla's tool shed doesn't get burnt down to the ground and his creations are created.
 

Nintex

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
672
On Earth-2 you'd have the same stories play out differently. Including the not political things that would somehow come back to bite the Clintons.

- The White House environment is toxic. Bill Clinton is making lewd comments to female white house staffers according to anonymous sources. "Hillary wants him out, but he's still the first 'first gentlemen' so her aides have told her he needs to stay for optics."

- Putin has convinced Pakistan to close supply lines leading into Afghanistan cutting off the NATO forces there if Clinton continues to prepare for an attack on Syria.
John McCain calls Clinton a reckless warmonger. Angela Merkel is preparing a German-Russian summit to ease tensions in the west. "We cannot be divided by American adventurism in the Middle East." she said.

- While the world is busy dealing with the tensions between Putin and Clinton over Syria the North Koreans have once again tested Nuclear Missiles. Chinese leader Xi Jinping promised President Clinton he would 'reign in' Kim Jun Un.

- After the Brexit vote ended in favor of staying in the EU the EU moves towards a 'superstate' with British support. Cameron, Merkel and the newly elected French leader Macron have introduced a new roadmap for a united Europe.
An EU army will be formed, Britain will become part of the Eurozone and new labor and pension laws will provide a equal and stable economy all throughout the Eurozone.
Although the treaty is supported by the biggest member states, violent protests in Greece, Italy and Spain show images not seen since the Cold War.

- The black caucus breaks with Clinton and the Democratic party and forms a new Progressive party led by Donna Brazile after her tell all book: "12 months a slave" about her tenure as DNC chairwoman.

- Tony Podesta is forced to resign after Wikileaks releases proof his lobbying firm worked with Fusion GPS to discredit the Republican candidates. Late night host Stephen Colbert called Podesta: "Little Nixon" as he showed footage of Podesta leaving by helicopter.

- Paul Manafort is arrested in the election probe that has hit Facebook, Breitbart and other media organisations. Trump denies any wrongdoing although he understands the pressure of his former associates.
"I wasn't aware of any collusion with the Russians. We had a good time, we lost. I've put the whole thing behind me to be honest.".
The investigation supported by both Democrats and Republicans into foreign election meddling has far reaching consequences.

- TRUMP TV already second in ratings takes the TV market by storm after Fox News loses key anchors accused of sexual harassment.
Jimmy Fallon invited him on yesterday: "Donald Trump might not be president but he is the TV president". Trump added: "And Twitter president!"
The network is known for 'crazy' reality TV but also live coverage of mayor events thanks to 'grass roots' reporters that followed Trump during the campaign.

- Clinton donor and neighbor Harvey Weinstein is accused of sexual harassment. Clinton denies knowing Weinstein very well but records show he donated a lot of money to the Clinton foundation over the years.
The NYT dug up photo's of Weinstein at various fundraisers during the campaign. Trump commented on Twitter that he never took dirty Harvey's money. And the Clintons should be ashamed of themselves.

- Kevin Spacey, actor and friend of Bill Clinton has also been accused of sexual harassment.

- Al-Waleed bin Talal orchestrates a coup to take control of Saudi Arabia supported by hard line clerics and religious leaders. King Salman has been arrested by his own palace guard.
According to officials the US was warned about the incoming coup but choose to remain neutral.

- Joe Biden tells Anderson Cooper he's disappointed in Clinton as the US grows ever more divided. New gun laws enacted by executive order are now stuck in court because Clinton acted rashly and refused to consult with GOP leaders.
Asked about her decision to move forward without bi-partisan support Clinton said: "What GOP leadership? Donald Trump? John McCain? Paul Ryan? Is anyone still calling the shots?"

- The Republican party, after the defeat of Donald Trump is in turmoil. Former presidential candidate Mitt Romney says he's mulling the formation of a new party for 'compassionate conservatives' after Trump refused to rule out a re-run for himself or one of his children in 2020.

- The Saudi coup is another blow to the already shaking economy. Oil prices continue to rise as the Syrian Civil War fueled by American arms and the Saudi coup indicate the Middle East will spiral out of control sooner than later.

- Despite all this Clinton's approval ratings still stand at 40% because relief efforts in Puerto Rico and other areas hit by the hurricanes have been very successful. In a televised address
President Clinton requested that everyone who donated to her campaign donate at least $1 to relief efforts.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,976
Serious answer:

This was going to happen sooner or later. Better take our medicine now and get it over with. Atleast this is happening in a relatively peaceful era where the economy is ok.